Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Gaffers on 02 February 2011, 08:17:12
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Not me this time, poor health has kept me off my bike recently although I do still occasionally cycle. On the odd occasion I do cycle drivers have been pretty good to me recently, less one soldier who had to change his pants one day when I explained I was taking his name rank and number to his adjutant ;D
This chap is as fed up as I am over how cyclists are treated on the roads, and I understand it is 10 times worse for those in cities as it is for me.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12330181
He seems to use the same Positive Space Technique that I do which discourages drivers tempted to overtake in spaces that are too narrow and thus dangerous for the cyclist. In the incident in question he shouts to let the driver know he is there, I do the same but I am interested in your views on this.
Now you may feel that this is an isolated case but I have had similar incidents to this many many times, admittedly many think twice when they realise how big I am but I feel that many drivers see cyclists as fair game for abuse.
This is a small clip and it does not show his entire commute so I cannot comment on whether he sticks to the rules of the road like cyclist should but what I see here he seems responsible.
.....and discuss ::)
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He was being overtaken by the white van, not undertaking it.
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I would also say I think it is more a case of not taking note rather than actually anti cycle.
Difficult to tell what happened in that instance.
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Interestingly there is a link to a debate on driver vs cyclist and I found myself agreeing with both sides of the argument :-/
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The most difficult cyclists to safely navigate past are the fast ones. This guy did contribute to the confrontation IMHO although the van should not have passed him that close to a junction when turning left.
Matey-boy rode un-necessarily far out into the road after turning left but then again the van was not allowed to pass on the zig-zags!
Unfortunately there are far too many cyclists who disregard the Highway Code and it's not surprising that they get contempt from other road users.
More enforcement needed of cyclists sadly. I believe the van driver got done so hopefully that worked.
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On a wider point it seems a shame that many in our society (particularly road users) feel it necessary to have their movements and behaviour monitored (for protection) by using video equipment.
I suppose it's the natural consequence of people competing for space - especially on the crowded roads.
A bit more tolerance from drivers - and cyclists - would go a long way to make the experience more palatable.
Of course depending on video evidence can sometimes have unintended consequences for that person choosing to use it in that it's difficult to be correct in every aspect of behaviour in the pastime being monitored at the time.
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A bit more tolerance from drivers - and cyclists - would go a long way to make the experience more palatable.
Agreed, and this is what I am trying to do.
Of course depending on video evidence can sometimes have unintended consequences for that person choosing to use it in that it's difficult to be correct in every aspect of behaviour in the pastime being monitored at the time.
I agree absolutely wholeheartedly, that is why I have no problems using a cam when I cycle. It even shows my disgust when I see other cyclists flaunting the rules, they give us all a bad name.
As for having to do it, I wish I didn't but. I fear it is only a matter of time before I get into another serious incident and I will have nothing to back me up. Having the helmet cam is worth more than the testimony of your buddy in the passenger seat :y
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On a wider point it seems a shame that many in our society (particularly road users) feel it necessary to have their movements and behaviour monitored (for protection) by using video equipment.
I suppose it's the natural consequence of people competing for space - especially on the crowded roads.
A bit more tolerance from drivers - and cyclists - would go a long way to make the experience more palatable.
Of course depending on video evidence can sometimes have unintended consequences for that person choosing to use it in that it's difficult to be correct in every aspect of behaviour in the pastime being monitored at the time.
car manufacturers could easily and cheaply fit cameras to every new car made to record everything that the driver was doing on the road....of course the reason they dont is that no one would buy a car that grassed you up - altho some mercs have a "black box" that records steering/throttle/brake input in event of a crash dont they? :-?
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car manufacturers could easily and cheaply fit cameras to every new car made to record everything that the driver was doing on the road....of course the reason they dont is that no one would buy a car that grassed you up - altho some mercs have a "black box" that records steering/throttle/brake input in event of a crash dont they? :-?
I think a lot of modern cars have systems capable of being interrogated in those circumstances.
And yes, the idea of a lump of metal dropping a dime on you is concerning, to say the least.
Of course this may be a moot point in the event of the widespread introduction of road pricing.
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IMHO, there are two sides to the argument. Most motorists haven't been on a cycle for so long they no longer have a feel for what's reasonable, and get frustrated with cyclists (quite justifiably) taking enough road to guarantee their safety.
On the other hand, I followed a group of cyclists for a mile or so on Sunday morning along a rural A road and they seemed incapable of riding in any other configuration than 3 abreast when it would have been much safer for me to pass had they had the sense to ride in single file.
I'm sure they feel really self-righteous getting exercise at that time on a Sunday morning but it's not reasonable to expect traffic to sit behind you at 15 MPH, especially when the sight of all that sweaty lycra was about to make me heave up my breakfast. ;)
A helmet cam is a good idea in case anything does happen, though. I'm starting to think the same about using one in a car, TBH.
Kevin
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>:( >:(
white van.. even if he was 100% right , he is still wrong.. >:(
I know what road terror/mess they create here.. and everyday I deal/struggle with one.. road belongs to them.. and every driver need to respect.. and they can drive whatever speed they desire..
reason is simple , car dont belong to them.. they dont pay the fuel, service.. >:(
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You can bet your arse the van driver would not have behaved the way he did if he knew he was being recorded.
Thing is the cyclist has every right to be there, or where ever he chooses on the road regards the traffic behind him. He is not obliged to keep left at every point.
But it is expected to keep left by car drivers, and it is polite to do so, hence the under taking as well.
There is an inherent desire amongst some car drivers to pass a cyclist, even when there is only a cars length of space in front of the cyclist. Only for the cyclist to be forced to undertake when the traffic stops at the next set of lights 5 seconds later.
Just sit back. Poor driving mostly. ...... "mostly" ..... I do take the pees a bit with traffic lights on me treader.
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IMHO, there are two sides to the argument. Most motorists haven't been on a cycle for so long they no longer have a feel for what's reasonable, and get frustrated with cyclists (quite justifiably) taking enough road to guarantee their safety.
On the other hand, I followed a group of cyclists for a mile or so on Sunday morning along a rural A road and they seemed incapable of riding in any other configuration than 3 abreast when it would have been much safer for me to pass had they had the sense to ride in single file.
I'm sure they feel really self-righteous getting exercise at that time on a Sunday morning but it's not reasonable to expect traffic to sit behind you at 15 MPH, especially when the sight of all that sweaty lycra was about to make me heave up my breakfast. ;)
A helmet cam is a good idea in case anything does happen, though. I'm starting to think the same about using one in a car, TBH.
Kevin
Does the Highway Code still state that cyclists should not be more than 2 abreast ? Or am I thinking of the cycling proficiency test I did as a wee kid over 30 years ago ? :-? ::)
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A helmet cam is a good idea in case anything does happen, though. I'm starting to think the same about using one in a car, TBH.
Kevin
Indeed, something of a double edged sword though possibly...?
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A helmet cam is a good idea in case anything does happen, though. I'm starting to think the same about using one in a car, TBH.
Kevin
Indeed, something of a double edged sword though possibly...?
Depends on how you drive....... ::)
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A helmet cam is a good idea in case anything does happen, though. I'm starting to think the same about using one in a car, TBH.
Kevin
Indeed, something of a double edged sword though possibly...?
Depends on how you drive....... ::)
.....and ride. ::)
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A helmet cam is a good idea in case anything does happen, though. I'm starting to think the same about using one in a car, TBH.
Kevin
Indeed, something of a double edged sword though possibly...?
Depends on how you drive....... ::)
.....and ride. ::)
.. and it's up to you to volunteer the footage.. or not. :-X
Kevin
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A helmet cam is a good idea in case anything does happen, though. I'm starting to think the same about using one in a car, TBH.
Kevin
Indeed, something of a double edged sword though possibly...?
Depends on how you drive....... ::)
.....and ride. ::)
.. and it's up to you to volunteer the footage.. or not. :-X
Kevin
Unless plod conmmandere the device at the road side. :-X. Has happened, although I'm not usually that naughty.
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Unless plod conmmandere the device at the road side. :-X. Has happened, although I'm not usually that naughty.
True. They'd have to know it was there, of course. Hmm. Maybe a device that stops recording under "certain circumstances". ;)
Kevin
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As you say G, it seems that the cyclist observes the rules of the road. Unfortunately lots don't!
The reaction of the white van driver was no real surprise TBH, although that doesn't mean I agree with him!
As for cyclists. I try to leave a cars (admittedly Astra/Focus sized car) width between myself and the cyclist when passing. Unfortunately, when I start seeing them 2 or 3 abreast (cycle clubs can be the worst for this) it becomes an impossibility!
The only thing that really bugs me is when they refuse to use the cycle path on one of our local roads because they'll have to look at junctions, then just get in the way, constantly coming up the inside, jumping the lights etc... These people are asking for trouble ::)
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I have just written to the Chief Constable of Hampshire Police asking him to take more action towards cyclist who dont obey the rules of the road. That way drivers might start to respect cyclists more.
As for cycle lanes, some are excellent but a lot of the earlier ones were thought out by pillocks who have never seen a gym let alone used a bike on the roads and those I will not use. Cycle lanes are optional remember and if they are dangerous or full of put holes I wont use them.
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An extract from the letter I sent:
...On a separate issue and as a keen cyclist I follow the Highway Code the same as I would in a car and I am disgusted to see so many cyclists flaunting the rules and get away with it. I have been the victim of road rage from motorists on many occasions purely for the reason of being on a bike. I put that rage down to the cyclists who disregard the rules of the road. Drivers then tar us all with the same brush and vent their frustration at the cyclists nearest them, often the law abiding ones. As an Officer in the Army I often stop and chastise soldiers who cycle around the Garrison on the pavement, run red lights or have no lights at night. Of course I can do nothing with civilians. I have yet to see the Police take a single cyclist to task for not obeying with the rules of the road. Only once cyclists are held accountable will drivers respect us, and only then will the roads become safer for us all.
.... Hampshire Police need to do something about changing attitudes on the roads in Hampshire. Not just the drivers, but the cyclists and the Police Officers themselves. Even if you give verbal warnings they will take note because right now everyone believes they can get away with it. Indeed if I decided to take the lights off my bike this evening and cycle past the Police Station on the pavement while talking on my mobile phone, I bet that not a single Police Officer would even bat an eyelid in my direction......
Lets see what he makes of that ;)
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A few weeks ago I was driving to my brother's in Ealing. We were on the Richmond Road, at a red ATS. I saw at least 8 cyclists go past me on my left, and straight through the red light.
On another occasion I was walking along a pedestrian footpath/alleyway when I heard a voice behind me say 'Excuse me'. I turned round and saw a man on a pushbike attempting to get past me. I pointed out that we were on a pedestrian footpath which was clearly posted with 'No Cycling' signs. I also pointed out the uniformed police officer walking along the same footpath about 30-40 yards ahead of us and mentioned that the officer would probably tell him to get off his bike and walk.
No such thing occured. The cyclist rode past me AND the police officer, who said absolutely nothing.
I have also seen entire families riding on the footpath.
I know a lot of cyclists do obey the rules and its the minority who cause the problems. Bit like motorcyclists really.
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Well done guffer, and I hope the CC takes some time to reply to your letter.
It's no good focusing on motorists to drive safely when there is no action taken against other road users as it just makes people feel picked on. The law has to be fairly applied. And when you consider how much car and van drivers are taxed, targeted for any trangressions and aggressively penalised, it only stokes the fire when in some areas cyclists are just allowed to do what they like.
I've seen one cyclist have a go at another for igoring the Highway Code (he got a right earful too), so it isn't as if they don't care about how they behave and are seen by other road users, but they shouldn't be policing themselves.
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While we're having a discussion about cyclists....
Has anyone else been fed up with cyclists using excessively bright lights recently? Car headlights have a properly controlled beam pattern to allow good illumination without dazzling other road users. not so cycle lights, it would seem.
Kevin
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Yes, some bikes now have HID lighting, obviously just aimed where they want to point it.
Fully agree about wanting to see and be seen, but no need to dazzle other people to do it
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While we're having a discussion about cyclists....
Has anyone else been fed up with cyclists using excessively bright lights recently? Car headlights have a properly controlled beam pattern to allow good illumination without dazzling other road users. not so cycle lights, it would seem.
Kevin
Good point there Mr Wood ;)
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While we're having a discussion about cyclists....
Has anyone else been fed up with cyclists using excessively bright lights recently? Car headlights have a properly controlled beam pattern to allow good illumination without dazzling other road users. not so cycle lights, it would seem.
Kevin
I suppose I am guilty of using them but they are aimed at the ground. I cannot control the beam pattern and if I point them too far down they are useless.
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i have had a camera mounted by the rear view mirror for some time now permamantly recording everything that happens,i put it in having been concerned by the number of "twunts"who are incapable of going around a roundabout using a steering wheel, ie "straightlining".i have it for insurance purpose's only in case im "clobbered" by one of these blinkered idiots. :y
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[size=12]As said I don't think he's necessarily anti-cyclist, just an arrogant slob who thinks he owns the road. It seems that there is an increasing minority of people who, once they are cocooned in their mobile metal box think they own the road, can do what they want, and no one else matters.
In this case I think he's probably more annoyed with himself for not using his mirrors, not expecting the cyclist to maintain his position/speed, and not expecting him to be there round the bend, so het got a shock and took it out on him. Obviously not excusing or justifying his behaviour though.[/size]
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the problem is cyclists are seen as slow, drivers thing, oh he is on a bike, he is only doing 5mph....
In London, i'm often the fastest thing on the road. I've got a bullet cam i must mount for my commute, luckly apart from crossing the North Circular its quite a nice route, take in few parks 8-)
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I see so many cyclists that are a huge danger on the roads, but, I do still in most circumstances leave plenty of room...
I saw a few days ago a cyclist almost knocked off his bike by a motorist in front of me, but, the cyclist was being a bit of a prat as well by trying to undertake where there was no room to do so, had he have held back just 10 feet, he would have been in the flow of traffic and more to the point safe...
General driving standards on the roads at the moment are terrible, many drivers don't signal or even look, no matter what they are driving.
The other day on a busy roundabout, a car was in the wrong lane, instead of indcating his intention, he sat in a dangerous position expecting someone to let him over (which no one was doing as he had no signal on) when he got over, he went straight over to overtake a number of cars before forcing himself back over to get the exit he wanted...
I think what it actually boils down to a a total lack of respect for any road user, whether it be a Bike, Car, an or Lorry...
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when I was 18 I knocked an 11 year old off his bike in a 40 limit,it was a big impact which had him come through the windscreen then when I braked hard he rolled off the front of the car and I nearly ran him over as well.It was the most frightening thing that has happened to me in 34 years of driving,luckily the lad was not badly hurt(in fact he walked away with minor cuts and bruises).it wasn't my fault but the police at the time still tried to do me for driving without due care,luckily for me the lads gran was sat in a layby on the opposite side of the road and saw everything and that saved my bacon but I am still very wary of cyclists and give them a very wide berth
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I don't think we'll ever solve this old chestnut. Never the twain etc. There are good & bad motorists & cyclists. In the case of said video it's a close call. I cycle sometimes (not enough) but i still do. I don't dress up & only potter about locally. I also drive so can see both sides. It seems the worst problem is the cyclist getting hurt by trucks/cars when making left turns & is uaually (granted not always) caused by the cyclist "inventing" another left lane. They should stick to the rules of the road & wait in line @ junctions. Some do but many don't then bleat when it goes wrong.
Many years ago when i still lived down south i was at a junction on the inside lane waiting to turn left (in a car). My indicator was on, the lights changeds & i started to turn left. I looked in the left mirror & saw a cyclist. We both braked hard & stopped in time but he kicked my rear door in. I got out, he called me a &*%*$*^ & said he wanted to go straight ahead. I hit him, the railings held him up. He should've been sat behind the car not to left of it let alone kicking my door.
Not all cyclists are this bad. Many are fine & ride properly but it seems thr more spandex & gear they're wearing the worse they are. If you don't want to get knocked off wait your turn like the rest of us. I do.