Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Lizzie_Zoom on 21 February 2011, 17:28:17
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Interesting developments with the Libyan delegation to the United Nations requesting their intervention to stop the Libyan Government's actions against their people, and a no-flight zone to be set up across the country.
William Hague has also announced that information received suggests President Gaddafi is on his way to Venezuela. Other reports have come in stating Libyan Air Force jets have landed in Malta.
Most commentators are now suggesting "Libya is imploding".
What interesting times!! ;) ;)
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My guts are imploding today. Should that be front page news?
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upto now, I was in shock that all those countries and the sleeping beauties wake up suddenly.. ;D ;D
after checking some news, I found who kicked their arse.. ;D ;D
it seems like that uncle sam decided to redesign those countries again.. ;D
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upto now, I was in shock that all those countries and the sleeping beauties wake up suddenly.. ;D ;D
after checking some news, I found who kicked their arse.. ;D ;D
it seems like that uncle sam decided to redesign those countries again.. ;D
Wouldn't surprise me one bit.
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While its undoubtedly a good thing that people power is overthrowing the middle eastern dictators, I find it worrying that we dont hear much about credible oppositions who are ready, organised and capable of replacing them. If the countries involved have a power vacuum, they will be in a dangerous and volatile position.
Remember what happened in Iraq ofter Sadaam was ousted ? And that happened with huge numbers of western troops present in the country at the time.
It could all very easily go very Pete Tong indeed, but hopefully it wont. :-/
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While its undoubtedly a good thing that people power is overthrowing the middle eastern dictators, I find it worrying that we dont hear much about credible oppositions who are ready, organised and capable of replacing them. If the countries involved have a power vacuum, they will be in a dangerous and volatile position.
yes..
Remember what happened in Iraq ofter Sadaam was ousted ? And that happened with huge numbers of western troops present in the country at the time.
It could all very easily go very Pete Tong indeed,
yes..uncle sam dont care about what happens after, they have a mega plan of which still not clear to me .. :-/
but hopefully it wont. :-/
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News now coming in of the Libyan Air Force bombing and strafing Tripoli!!
Many, many deaths! :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
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My guts are imploding today. Should that be front page news?
Being serious TB, I find it unfortunate you can put your guts in context of what is happening in Libya, and what could spread throughout that unfortunate part of the world! Many people are already dead, with many more dying as I write :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :( :( :( :( :( :(
This DOES affect everyone of us! :P :P :P :P
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Im not sure thats true Cem. For a long time the U.S has spent a lot of time/energy/money on trying to stabilise the middle East.
A stable region with the lower oil prices that would bring would solve a big headache for them, although Im sure they will excercise a certain amount of influence to try to ensure "western friendly" admimistrations. Which tbh, I think is fair enough, as long as they go about it in a reasonably fair and intelligent manner.
If most of the middle east ended up with sensible and democratic governments it weaken the position of the Iranian regime considerably, and that is probably the U.S/ western top priority in the region ;)
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What interesting times!! ;) ;)
Interesting - but decidedly dangerous Lizzie.
Such instability, over a widespread section of this region, could have dire consequences for us all.
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Im not sure thats true Cem. For a long time the U.S has spent a lot of time/energy/money on trying to stabilise the middle East.
but which they succeeded the reverse ;D
and a tip for you.. they are also strirring here in such an extent that they keep me in shock nearly everyday.. :( :-X
A stable region with the lower oil prices that would bring would solve a big headache for them,
hmmm..
lower oil prices ?? a country that oil cartels decide nearly for everything
stable middle east ?? a country thats weapon industries
are in control of every point..
nope..
although Im sure they will excercise a certain amount of influence to try to ensure "western friendly" admimistrations. Which tbh, I think is fair enough, as long as they go about it in a reasonably fair and intelligent manner.
If most of the middle east ended up with sensible and democratic governments it weaken the position of the Iranian regime considerably,
god knows what they have in mind.. but one of the reasons could well be iran :y however they have different priorities than we can imagine now... but future will show sooner or later..
and that is probably the U.S/ western top priority in the region ;)
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What interesting times!! ;) ;)
Interesting - but decidedly dangerous Lizzie.
Such instability, over a widespread section of this region, could have dire consequences for us all.
Oh yes Zulu (welcome back!! :y :y :y :y :y :y) that is exactly what I was considering with my comments. Any "interesting times" in history has usually resulted in severe consequences to us as a nation. At the moment it is just the supply of fuel that could affect us; lets hope it does not eventually cost our blood!! :'( :'( :'( :'(
PS see my above post to TB ;)
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What interesting times!! ;) ;)
Interesting - but decidedly dangerous Lizzie.
Such instability, over a widespread section of this region, could have dire consequences for us all.
Welcome back Zulu :y
and yes.. may have dangerous consequences.. and the first one with the probabilty to force all of us to park our miggies forever.. :(
whatever it is, they take big risk..
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My guts are imploding today. Should that be front page news?
Being serious TB, I find it unfortunate you can put your guts in context of what is happening in Libya, and what could spread throughout that unfortunate part of the world! Many people are already dead, with many more dying as I write :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :( :( :( :( :( :(
This DOES affect everyone of us! :P :P :P :P
Nope, you completely missed the point ;)
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While its undoubtedly a good thing that people power is overthrowing the middle eastern dictators, I find it worrying that we dont hear much about credible oppositions who are ready, organised and capable of replacing them. If the countries involved have a power vacuum, they will be in a dangerous and volatile position.
Remember what happened in Iraq ofter Sadaam was ousted ? And that happened with huge numbers of western troops present in the country at the time.
It could all very easily go very Pete Tong indeed, but hopefully it wont. :-/
thats a good point Albs, but the lack of opposition is purely due to the illegality of opposing most dictators - surely its better to let the chips fall where they may rather than try as we've constantly done in the past, to gerry-mander compliance - my gut feeling is Libya, Egypt, Tunisia, et al won't accept a military regime for long although a nutjob muslim power in Libya is a possibility - i say condemn the violence totally but stay out unless asked to intervene by the majority :o
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I'll be interested to see the results in a few years, i'm putting money that the only change is corrupt dictators are just replaced by corrupt governments.
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My guts are imploding today. Should that be front page news?
Being serious TB, I find it unfortunate you can put your guts in context of what is happening in Libya, and what could spread throughout that unfortunate part of the world! Many people are already dead, with many more dying as I write :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :( :( :( :( :( :(
This DOES affect everyone of us! :P :P :P :P
Nope, you completely missed the point ;)
What do you mean then TB? :-? :-? :-?
I thought your comment was most unlike you, but you do talk in mysterious ways at times! ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
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News now coming in of the Libyan Air Force bombing and strafing Tripoli!!
Many, many deaths! :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Jeeezus!
Poor bastards :(
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The two defecting Libyan Air Force pilots who landed in Malta have stated that they were orded to bomb their own protesting people, but refused to do so and headed for Malta :y :y :y :y
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So when this is all over, Gadaffi should be tried for war crimes (or similar). :y
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So when this is all over, Gadaffi should be tried for war crimes (or similar). :y
Fully agree Albs!! :y :y :y :y
The UN will have to track him down and place him on trial, if someone doesn't kill him first!! :-X :-X :-X :-X
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Libyan army has just withdrawn its forces from the Egyptian border
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So when this is all over, Gadaffi should be tried for war crimes (or similar). :y
then again if he offers us a cut price deal on oil then he will get a knighthood :-X :-X :-X
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So when this is all over, Gadaffi should be tried for war crimes (or similar). :y
then again if he offers us a cut price deal on oil then he will get a knighthood :-X :-X :-X
Seriously I think Gaddafi has gone too far for any democracy to entertain him :( :( :( He is a publically exposed murderer of his own people!! >:( >:( >:(
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He already did that with Blair, and got "normalised" relations, and his convicted terrorist released - among other things. ;)
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He already did that with Blair, and got "normalised" relations, and his convicted terrorist released - among other things. ;)
Oh yes! The UK is NOT blamless for this state of affairs! It is a shame that the USA air strike back in the 1980s on Tripili didn't get him! :( :( :( :(
This is what eventually happens with a dictatorship when at last the common people lose their fear and go all out for freedom along with democracy. How much earlier this could have happened if the West had acted. But then of course the West would have been blamed for interferring yet again! ::) ::) ::) ::)
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imo Kaddafi/Gaddafi whatever lost the track long time ago.. his life style , behaviours prooved he deserved to be in a mad clinic ;D and I wonder why those people wait all that time :-?
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So when this is all over, Gadaffi should be tried for war crimes (or similar). :y
then again if he offers us a cut price deal on oil then he will get a knighthood :-X :-X :-X
Seriously I think Gaddafi has gone too far for any democracy to entertain him :( :( :( He is a publically exposed murderer of his own people!! >:( >:( >:(
the only thing a dictator cares about is control and influance :(
its the nature of the beast sadly :(
i watched the interview on tv by his son last night.
inbetween the standard bulsh*t, one thing he said did make alot of sense.
Libya is basicly made up of 3 tribes with many different factions in those tribes.
unless those 3 tribes can split up the country between them then i just cannot see how democracy could ever work in this case :(
in any case ............... which one would keep the oil because thats all Libya has got :-/
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imo Kaddafi/Gaddafi whatever lost the track long time ago.. his life style , behaviours prooved he deserved to be in a mad clinic ;D and I wonder why those people wait all that time :-?
But from your (Turkish, Islamic) point of view Cem, what would you think if the UN / USA send in their battle units, hovering in the form of the Fifth and Sixth Fleets, and restore peace or at least take control of the situation? :-? :-? :-?
I believe personally that point has now arrived, and the UN are now poised to take action. ;) The Libyan UN delegation have indeed requested it! :y
...............and I would add Cem the USA Air Force bases in Turkey would be involved no doubt!! ::) ::) ::)
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The UN will probably have discussions on the subject - for several years. I very much doubt they will take action, they are worse than useless imo.
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The UN will probably have discussions on the subject - for several years. I very much doubt they will take action, they are worse than useless imo.
But the USA and UK will! :y :y :y
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The UN will probably have discussions on the subject - for several years. I very much doubt they will take action, they are worse than useless imo.
But the USA and UK will! :y :y :y
With what? I understand that we will have precious few planes soon, I a not into politics but it may be a good time to put a hold on the slimming down of our armed forces.... :-/ :-/
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The UN will probably have discussions on the subject - for several years. I very much doubt they will take action, they are worse than useless imo.
But the USA and UK will! :y :y :y
With what? I understand that we will have precious few planes soon, I a not into politics but it may be a good time to put a hold on the slimming down of our armed forces.... :-/ :-/
Sounds like other Arabian and African states may step in with their forces. Egypt of course has a very large army next door that is now 'free' to act with UN and Libyan blessing ;) ;)
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The UN will probably have discussions on the subject - for several years. I very much doubt they will take action, they are worse than useless imo.
But the USA and UK will! :y :y :y
I seriously doubt it. I think both countries (and their current leaderships) are tired of fighting wars a long way from home, which inevtibaly turn out to drag on for many years.
The Afghan campaign is close to being longer than both world wars put together. ;)
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dont know why but my senses tell me that all these parallel uprising is caused by a push button.. ;D :D :P
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Interesting thoughts ... several folks in this thread instantly "condemn" dictatorships as "wrong" ... yet historically they would appear to have, sometimes, saved many lives ..
Libya - Gaddafi : already mentioned .. 3 tribes who would kill each other if not stamped on ....
Yugoslavia - Tito : the end of Tito lead directly to the Balkan Wars and the genocide/"ethnic cleansing" that followed .. Tito was bad .. but at least he kept a lid on things ......
The many dictators in Africa : mostly "prevent" tribal wars, but when they go the fan gets covered ... Tribal wars/ "ethnic cleansing" go ballastic.
The far east ... Burma, Cambodia, North Vietnam, China (?), Iran here it is religious fanatics that the dictators "control" and not christian/other .. it is often "factions" within a religion ..
Now I'm NOT saying dictatorship is good ...I certainly don't want to be part of one .... it just seems that sometimes the "cure" may be worse than the "illness".
Just a thought .. nowt else .. :)
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us/uk
i don't think we have the manpower to do that at the moment :-/
if anybody goes in, it should be the arabs themselfs :y
the trouble is, Libya's neighbours are all kicking off too :(
if the yanks go in, it will just give a helping hand to those friends of bin laden and his chums
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Interesting thoughts ... several folks in this thread instantly "condemn" dictatorships as "wrong" ... yet historically they would appear to have, sometimes, saved many lives ..
Libya - Gaddafi : already mentioned .. 3 tribes who would kill each other if not stamped on ....
Yugoslavia - Tito : the end of Tito lead directly to the Balkan Wars and the genocide/"ethnic cleansing" that followed .. Tito was bad .. but at least he kept a lid on things ......
The many dictators in Africa : mostly "prevent" tribal wars, but when they go the fan gets covered ... Tribal wars/ "ethnic cleansing" go ballastic.
The far east ... Burma, Cambodia, North Vietnam, China (?), Iran here it is religious fanatics that the dictators "control" and not christian/other .. it is often "factions" within a religion ..
Now I'm NOT saying dictatorship is good ...I certainly don't want to be part of one .... it just seems that sometimes the "cure" may be worse than the "illness".
Just a thought .. nowt else .. :)
yep.. because they were originally not nations including the Arabs.. all bunch of tribes.. and still..
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The UN will probably have discussions on the subject - for several years. I very much doubt they will take action, they are worse than useless imo.
But the USA and UK will! :y :y :y
I seriously doubt it. I think both countries (and their current leaderships) are tired of fighting wars a long way from home, which inevtibaly turn out to drag on for many years.
The Afghan campaign is close to being longer than both world wars put together. ;)
But the USA have already in place battle units in the form of the Sixth (Med) and Fifth (Gulf) Fleets, so the resources are already in place. ;)
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Interesting thoughts ... several folks in this thread instantly "condemn" dictatorships as "wrong" ... yet historically they would appear to have, sometimes, saved many lives ..
Libya - Gaddafi : already mentioned .. 3 tribes who would kill each other if not stamped on ....
Yugoslavia - Tito : the end of Tito lead directly to the Balkan Wars and the genocide/"ethnic cleansing" that followed .. Tito was bad .. but at least he kept a lid on things ......
The many dictators in Africa : mostly "prevent" tribal wars, but when they go the fan gets covered ... Tribal wars/ "ethnic cleansing" go ballastic.
The far east ... Burma, Cambodia, North Vietnam, China (?), Iran here it is religious fanatics that the dictators "control" and not christian/other .. it is often "factions" within a religion ..
Now I'm NOT saying dictatorship is good ...I certainly don't want to be part of one .... it just seems that sometimes the "cure" may be worse than the "illness".
Just a thought .. nowt else .. :)
yep.. because they were originally not nations including the Arabs.. all bunch of tribes.. and still..
and I bet when the oil is finished they will go back to the original state ;D :P
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Interesting thoughts ... several folks in this thread instantly "condemn" dictatorships as "wrong" ... yet historically they would appear to have, sometimes, saved many lives ..
Libya - Gaddafi : already mentioned .. 3 tribes who would kill each other if not stamped on ....
Yugoslavia - Tito : the end of Tito lead directly to the Balkan Wars and the genocide/"ethnic cleansing" that followed .. Tito was bad .. but at least he kept a lid on things ......
The many dictators in Africa : mostly "prevent" tribal wars, but when they go the fan gets covered ... Tribal wars/ "ethnic cleansing" go ballastic.
The far east ... Burma, Cambodia, North Vietnam, China (?), Iran here it is religious fanatics that the dictators "control" and not christian/other .. it is often "factions" within a religion ..
Now I'm NOT saying dictatorship is good ...I certainly don't want to be part of one .... it just seems that sometimes the "cure" may be worse than the "illness".
Just a thought .. nowt else .. :)
yep.. because they were originally not nations including the Arabs.. all bunch of tribes.. and still..
and I bet when the oil is finished they will go back to the original state ;D :P
On that point Oil prices went through the roof today, with Brent Crude reaching $108 a barrel! :'( :'(
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imo Kaddafi/Gaddafi whatever lost the track long time ago.. his life style , behaviours prooved he deserved to be in a mad clinic ;D and I wonder why those people wait all that time :-?
But from your (Turkish, Islamic) point of view Cem, what would you think if the UN / USA send in their battle units, hovering in the form of the Fifth and Sixth Fleets, and restore peace or at least take control of the situation? :-? :-? :-?
I believe personally that point has now arrived, and the UN are now poised to take action. ;) The Libyan UN delegation have indeed requested it! :y
those tribes are unmanagable! because for long time they wont know what they want on a changing politic climate.. except money.. if I was any leader I would wait till they kill each other ;D and dont send any military power there.. when the dust settles , invade ;D ;D ;D :y
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imo Kaddafi/Gaddafi whatever lost the track long time ago.. his life style , behaviours prooved he deserved to be in a mad clinic ;D and I wonder why those people wait all that time :-?
But from your (Turkish, Islamic) point of view Cem, what would you think if the UN / USA send in their battle units, hovering in the form of the Fifth and Sixth Fleets, and restore peace or at least take control of the situation? :-? :-? :-?
I believe personally that point has now arrived, and the UN are now poised to take action. ;) The Libyan UN delegation have indeed requested it! :y
those tribes are unmanagable! because for long time they wont know what they want on a changing politic climate.. except money.. if I was any leader I would wait till they kill each other ;D and dont send any military power there.. when the dust settles , invade ;D ;D ;D :y
Thanks Cem! :y :y
...............and I would add Cem the USA Air Force bases in Turkey would be involved no doubt!! ::) ::) ::) What do you think of that? :-? :-?
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imo Kaddafi/Gaddafi whatever lost the track long time ago.. his life style , behaviours prooved he deserved to be in a mad clinic ;D and I wonder why those people wait all that time :-?
But from your (Turkish, Islamic) point of view Cem, what would you think if the UN / USA send in their battle units, hovering in the form of the Fifth and Sixth Fleets, and restore peace or at least take control of the situation? :-? :-? :-?
I believe personally that point has now arrived, and the UN are now poised to take action. ;) The Libyan UN delegation have indeed requested it! :y
those tribes are unmanagable! because for long time they wont know what they want on a changing politic climate.. except money.. if I was any leader I would wait till they kill each other ;D and dont send any military power there.. when the dust settles , invade ;D ;D ;D :y
Thanks Cem! :y :y
...............and I would add Cem the USA Air Force bases in Turkey would be involved no doubt!! ::) ::) ::) What do you think of that? :-? :-?
I'm not in charge!.. but if I was I would show the door gently.. ;D
seriously, we have more serious problems nowadays than the the air bases.. :-/ this must be solved first.. elections are in front of the door.. and seems nothing will change >:( >:(
and for your information, our situation and the uprises are somehow related :(
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imo Kaddafi/Gaddafi whatever lost the track long time ago.. his life style , behaviours prooved he deserved to be in a mad clinic ;D and I wonder why those people wait all that time :-?
But from your (Turkish, Islamic) point of view Cem, what would you think if the UN / USA send in their battle units, hovering in the form of the Fifth and Sixth Fleets, and restore peace or at least take control of the situation? :-? :-? :-?
I believe personally that point has now arrived, and the UN are now poised to take action. ;) The Libyan UN delegation have indeed requested it! :y
those tribes are unmanagable! because for long time they wont know what they want on a changing politic climate.. except money.. if I was any leader I would wait till they kill each other ;D and dont send any military power there.. when the dust settles , invade ;D ;D ;D :y
Thanks Cem! :y :y
...............and I would add Cem the USA Air Force bases in Turkey would be involved no doubt!! ::) ::) ::) What do you think of that? :-? :-?
Didn't Turkey say no to the Yanks invading Northern Iraq via Turkey?
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imo Kaddafi/Gaddafi whatever lost the track long time ago.. his life style , behaviours prooved he deserved to be in a mad clinic ;D and I wonder why those people wait all that time :-?
But from your (Turkish, Islamic) point of view Cem, what would you think if the UN / USA send in their battle units, hovering in the form of the Fifth and Sixth Fleets, and restore peace or at least take control of the situation? :-? :-? :-?
I believe personally that point has now arrived, and the UN are now poised to take action. ;) The Libyan UN delegation have indeed requested it! :y
those tribes are unmanagable! because for long time they wont know what they want on a changing politic climate.. except money.. if I was any leader I would wait till they kill each other ;D and dont send any military power there.. when the dust settles , invade ;D ;D ;D :y
Thanks Cem! :y :y
...............and I would add Cem the USA Air Force bases in Turkey would be involved no doubt!! ::) ::) ::) What do you think of that? :-? :-?
Didn't Turkey say no to the Yanks invading Northern Iraq via Turkey?
yes Varche.. the parliament refused..
those air bases were given some 60 years ago.. although their flights are arranged according to parliament permissions, we cant control their flight destination everytime.. :( but this doesnt mean those permissions can be abused always..
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imo Kaddafi/Gaddafi whatever lost the track long time ago.. his life style , behaviours prooved he deserved to be in a mad clinic ;D and I wonder why those people wait all that time :-?
But from your (Turkish, Islamic) point of view Cem, what would you think if the UN / USA send in their battle units, hovering in the form of the Fifth and Sixth Fleets, and restore peace or at least take control of the situation? :-? :-? :-?
I believe personally that point has now arrived, and the UN are now poised to take action. ;) The Libyan UN delegation have indeed requested it! :y
those tribes are unmanagable! because for long time they wont know what they want on a changing politic climate.. except money.. if I was any leader I would wait till they kill each other ;D and dont send any military power there.. when the dust settles , invade ;D ;D ;D :y
Thanks Cem! :y :y
...............and I would add Cem the USA Air Force bases in Turkey would be involved no doubt!! ::) ::) ::) What do you think of that? :-? :-?
I just hope the Americans can keep their hair trigger fingers holstered. Other wise I can see things degenerating at an alarming rate.
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imo Kaddafi/Gaddafi whatever lost the track long time ago.. his life style , behaviours prooved he deserved to be in a mad clinic ;D and I wonder why those people wait all that time :-?
But from your (Turkish, Islamic) point of view Cem, what would you think if the UN / USA send in their battle units, hovering in the form of the Fifth and Sixth Fleets, and restore peace or at least take control of the situation? :-? :-? :-?
I believe personally that point has now arrived, and the UN are now poised to take action. ;) The Libyan UN delegation have indeed requested it! :y
those tribes are unmanagable! because for long time they wont know what they want on a changing politic climate.. except money.. if I was any leader I would wait till they kill each other ;D and dont send any military power there.. when the dust settles , invade ;D ;D ;D :y
Thanks Cem! :y :y
...............and I would add Cem the USA Air Force bases in Turkey would be involved no doubt!! ::) ::) ::) What do you think of that? :-? :-?
Didn't Turkey say no to the Yanks invading Northern Iraq via Turkey?
yes Varche.. the parliament refused..
those air bases were given some 60 years ago.. although their flights are arranged according to parliament permissions, we cant control their flight destination everytime.. :( but this doesnt mean those permissions can be abused always..
what was funny at that time was they offer us 8 billion us$ ;D ;D ;D ;D
my country spends this money in 2 days ;D >:(
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Obama is a long way from being a hawk. I dont think the yanks will be going in anytime soon - unless there is large scale massacre or similar.
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honestly US have many airbases around , including europe so they will always find shorter paths..
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Obama is a long way from being a hawk. I dont think the yanks will be going in anytime soon - unless there is large scale massacre or similar.
Albs , US presidents have some advisors :-X
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Dont think Rumsfeld has the presidents ear these days though Cem. ;)
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Dont think Rumsfeld has the presidents ear these days though Cem. ;)
some may not accept , but as I said before presidents and their advisors are actually nothing more than show burocrats.. the real governors are always behind the scenes.. and they are never elected.. they always stay there.. there are few exceptional countries that doesnt follow this rule :-X :-X :-X :-X
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honestly US have many airbases around , including europe so they will always find shorter paths..
Indeed Cem, I remember Maggie Thatcher in 1986 giving the go-ahead for USAF fighters (F111 or F14's ?) to fly from UK bases, Fairford being one, to carryout the air strike on Tripili.
In addition B52's flew from Fairford during the First Gulf War in 1990 to carryout bombing missions. I lived near Bristol at the time and used to watch them flying over, back to Fairford, in the early hours. A fantastic sight!! 8-) 8-) 8-)
So yes Cem, US and UK jets can come from anywhere (well in the case of the UK not from fleet carriers!! ::) ::) ::)) :y :y
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honestly US have many airbases around , including europe so they will always find shorter paths..
Indeed Cem, I remember Maggie Thatcher in 1986 giving the go-ahead for USAF fighters (F111 or F14's ?) to fly from UK bases, Fairford being one, to carryout the air strike on Tripili.
In addition B52's flew from Fairford during the First Gulf War in 1990 to carryout bombing missions. I lived near Bristol at the time and used to watch them flying over, back to Fairford, in the early hours. A fantastic sight!! 8-) 8-) 8-)
So yes Cem, US and UK jets can come from anywhere (well in the case of the UK not from fleet carriers!! ::) ::) ::)) :y :y
if I'm not wrong I remember you had one :-?
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honestly US have many airbases around , including europe so they will always find shorter paths..
Indeed Cem, I remember Maggie Thatcher in 1986 giving the go-ahead for USAF fighters (F111 or F14's ?) to fly from UK bases, Fairford being one, to carryout the air strike on Tripili.
In addition B52's flew from Fairford during the First Gulf War in 1990 to carryout bombing missions. I lived near Bristol at the time and used to watch them flying over, back to Fairford, in the early hours. A fantastic sight!! 8-) 8-) 8-)
So yes Cem, US and UK jets can come from anywhere (well in the case of the UK not from fleet carriers!! ::) ::) ::)) :y :y
if I'm not wrong I remember you had one :-?
Nope Cem, all been paid off now along with the Harrier fighters that were the only fixed wing aircraft able to fly from them! ::) ::) ::) ::)
We have now to wait for our two very large carriers to be built, and then have to wait again for the fixed wing aircraft to fly from them once we have saved enough pennies!! ::) ::) ::) ;) ;)
If it wasn't so damned serious it would be the funniest joke in the world! :D :D Mind you to others it must be already!! ::) ::) :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
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I believe personally that point has now arrived, and the UN are now poised to take action. ;)
I would be concerned Lizzie that would be the first step on that road to the dire consequences I spoke of earlier.
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I believe personally that point has now arrived, and the UN are now poised to take action. ;)
I would be concerned Lizzie that would be the first step on that road to the dire consequences I spoke of earlier.
You may well be right Zulu, but leading Libyan UN delegates, ambassadors included, are now pleading for outside intervention to stop the "massacre" of their civilians.
I just do not see how we. the Western democratic powers, and the fellow African states can stand by and do nothing :( :(
A dreadful situation indeed!! :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
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I believe personally that point has now arrived, and the UN are now poised to take action. ;)
I would be concerned Lizzie that would be the first step on that road to the dire consequences I spoke of earlier.
You may well be right Zulu, but leading Libyan UN delegates, ambassadors included, are now pleading for outside intervention to stop the "massacre" of their civilians.
I just do not see how we. the Western democratic powers, and the fellow African states can stand by and do nothing :( :(
A dreadful situation indeed!! :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
It is indeed going to pose both a moral and practical problem without doubt.
This is yet another situation that should illustrate how important history is (and the thorough understanding of it) when attempting to deal with present day problems.
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I believe personally that point has now arrived, and the UN are now poised to take action. ;)
I would be concerned Lizzie that would be the first step on that road to the dire consequences I spoke of earlier.
You may well be right Zulu, but leading Libyan UN delegates, ambassadors included, are now pleading for outside intervention to stop the "massacre" of their civilians.
I just do not see how we. the Western democratic powers, and the fellow African states can stand by and do nothing :( :(
A dreadful situation indeed!! :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
It is indeed going to pose both a moral and practical problem without doubt.
This is yet another situation that should illustrate how important history is (and the thorough understanding of it) when attempting to deal with present day problems.
How right you are Zulu!! :y :y :y :y :y
History is littered with ifs, maybes, could haves, and we should have dones!! ::) ::) ::) ::)
If the British Government had not got involved when Germany invaded Belgium and France in 1914, we could have avoided the escalation of the first World War.
If the Versailles Treaty had not have been so ill conceived and biased against Germany we could have avoided WW2.
If Chamberlain had not stood by as Hitler went on his initial hunt into the Sudetenland, then the acquisition of the remainder of Czechoslovakia, we could have stopped the Nazis in their tracks!
If the UN forces has pursued the Iraqi army from Kuwait back to Bagdad and captued Saddam we could have avoided the future Iraqi conflict.
If the UN intervene in Libya now we could set that country onto the road of democracy, save lives, or maybe start the next major conflict!
Very difficult times and decisions to be made! What is right, what is wrong, and calling the right shot at the right time is a fine art in international diplomacy :P :P :P :P :P
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How right you are Zulu!! :y :y :y :y :y
History is littered with ifs, maybes, could haves, and we should have dones!! ::) ::) ::) ::)
If the British Government had not got involved when Germany invaded Belgium and France in 1914, we could have avoided the escalation of the first World War.
If the Versailles Treaty had not have been so ill conceived and biased against Germany we could have avoided WW2.
If Chamberlain had not stood by as Hitler went on his initial hunt into the Sudetenland, then the acquisition of the remainder of Czechoslovakia, we could have stopped the Nazis in their tracks!
If the UN forces has pursued the Iraqi army from Kuwait back to Bagdad and captued Saddam we could have avoided the future Iraqi conflict.
If the UN intervene in Libya now we could set that country onto the road of democracy, save lives, or maybe start the next major conflict!
Very difficult times and decisions to be made! What is right, what is wrong, and calling the right shot at the right time is a fine art in international diplomacy :P :P :P :P :P
Yes, I now think Lizzie we are witnessing events which future historians will refer to as those defining the slow descent into a prolonged period of international conflict that will also have profound consequences for the domestic stability of many countries in Europe and environs and the well-being of those of us resident in them.
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however this pans out it should be remembered that Libyans were one of the least likely people in the region to form an uprising, so i take from that that no one knows anything :o
this from the Indy 29th Jan '11:
"The longest-serving leader in the Arab world, Colonel Muammar al Gaddafi has ruled Libya since seizing power in a bloodless coup in 1969. The eccentric dictator said he was “pained” by the fall of Mr Ben Ali. But despite his pariah status overseas and corruption at home, soaring oil prices have allowed Colonel Gaddafi to maintain high levels of economic growth, while Libyans enjoy a life expectancy of 75, one of the highest in Africa.
Like many oil-rich states, unemployment among the local population is high, with millions of immigrants employed to do the menial jobs. But despite very little political openness and restrictions on freedom of expression, there is no sign that the Libyans have much inclination to rise up against their 69-year-old leader.
"
that was broadly the consensus a few weeks ago - game changer as the yanks say :o
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Well, thats the Indy for ya BJ. I keep telling you its a crap paper. :y ::) ;D
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however this pans out it should be remembered that Libyans were one of the least likely people in the region to form an uprising, so i take from that that no one knows anything :o
this from the Indy 29th Jan '11:
"The longest-serving leader in the Arab world, Colonel Muammar al Gaddafi has ruled Libya since seizing power in a bloodless coup in 1969. The eccentric dictator said he was “pained” by the fall of Mr Ben Ali. But despite his pariah status overseas and corruption at home, soaring oil prices have allowed Colonel Gaddafi to maintain high levels of economic growth, while Libyans enjoy a life expectancy of 75, one of the highest in Africa.
Like many oil-rich states, unemployment among the local population is high, with millions of immigrants employed to do the menial jobs. But despite very little political openness and restrictions on freedom of expression, there is no sign that the Libyans have much inclination to rise up against their 69-year-old leader.
"
that was broadly the consensus a few weeks ago - game changer as the yanks say :o
Yep BJ, a week is a long time in politics, let alone "a few"! :D :D :D :D
That is how quickly human changes can take place, especially in the field of international politics, and how history is made for better or worse! 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) :y
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We should have seen all of this coming really. Tony Bliar spends his days as a middle east peace envoy these days. ::) ;)
He wrecks everything he goes near, and leaves a trail of chaos in his wake.
Still "call me Dave" has gone over to Egypt (reportedly with British arms dealers in tow) so Im sure he will have it all sorted by the weekend. ::) :-X
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We should have seen all of this coming really. Tony Bliar spends his days as a middle east peace envoy these days. ::) ;)
He wrecks everything he goes near, and leaves a trail of chaos in his wake.
Still "call me Dave has gone over to Egypt (reportedly with British arms dealers in tow) so Im sure he will have it all sorted by the weekend. ::) :-X
Oh yes Albs, whatever and whoever is the new regieme if that country is considered important enough to the West we will quickly 'side up' with them, along with exchanging a few kisses for all I know! ::) ::) :D :D ;)
Of course in the old days it would have been to keep the USSR out, especially in the case of Egypt, but now it is to keep the radical Muslims away! ::) ::) ::) ::) ;)
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however this pans out it should be remembered that Libyans were one of the least likely people in the region to form an uprising, so i take from that that no one knows anything :o
this from the Indy 29th Jan '11:
"The longest-serving leader in the Arab world, Colonel Muammar al Gaddafi has ruled Libya since seizing power in a bloodless coup in 1969. The eccentric dictator said he was “pained” by the fall of Mr Ben Ali. But despite his pariah status overseas and corruption at home, soaring oil prices have allowed Colonel Gaddafi to maintain high levels of economic growth, while Libyans enjoy a life expectancy of 75, one of the highest in Africa.
Like many oil-rich states, unemployment among the local population is high, with millions of immigrants employed to do the menial jobs. But despite very little political openness and restrictions on freedom of expression, there is no sign that the Libyans have much inclination to rise up against their 69-year-old leader.
"
that was broadly the consensus a few weeks ago - game changer as the yanks say :o
There are always opponents Banjax, they will remain in the dark and in their shells until the day..
when the conditions mature and become ready , a world super power comes in contact and says "do it I'll support you ! "
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Let's also not forget that the regional political tension is now very high, and one false step could spell war. Iran, and therefore, Israel are hovering waiting for the other to make a move, with warships along with other military units "just there" in case!! ::) ::) ::) :o :o :o :o :P :P
The USA and the UK is also playing the same game! ::) ::) ::)
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Let's also not forget that the regional political tension is now very high, and one false step could spell war. Iran, and therefore, Israel are hovering waiting for the other to make a move, with warships along with other military units "just there" in case!! ::) ::) ::) :o :o :o :o :P :P
The USA and the UK is also playing the same game! ::) ::) ::)
Lizzie although historical and political ties/obligations push UK to play the same game, its always the UK who pays the bill.. Remember , still US$ is the world currency which US can print as much as necessary to pay its bills.. :-/
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Let's also not forget that the regional political tension is now very high, and one false step could spell war. Iran, and therefore, Israel are hovering waiting for the other to make a move, with warships along with other military units "just there" in case!! ::) ::) ::) :o :o :o :o :P :P
The USA and the UK is also playing the same game! ::) ::) ::)
Lizzie although historical and political ties/obligations push UK to play the same game, its always the UK who pays the bill.. Remember , still US$ is the world currency which US can print as much as necessary to pay its bills.. :-/
Oh yes indeed Cem, and the USA did commercially very nicely out of the British in WW2 with what was left of the Empires fortunes going across the Atlantic! ::) ::) ::)
Always has been, always will I suppose! The USA take their pound of flesh! :P :P :P :P
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Let's also not forget that the regional political tension is now very high, and one false step could spell war. Iran, and therefore, Israel are hovering waiting for the other to make a move, with warships along with other military units "just there" in case!! ::) ::) ::) :o :o :o :o :P :P
The USA and the UK is also playing the same game! ::) ::) ::)
Let's also not forget that the regional political tension is now very high
That factor alone makes this a much more dangerous situation with far-reaching implications.
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There are always opponents Banjax, they will remain in the dark and in their shells until the day..
when the conditions mature and become ready , a world super power comes in contact and says "do it I'll support you ! "
Yes cem - that will always be the drawback in countries where the tribal system is the accepted norm.
It didn't matter too much where the African nations were concerned but matters a great deal in this oil rich, religiously charged, territorially aware and strategically placed region.
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There are always opponents Banjax, they will remain in the dark and in their shells until the day..
when the conditions mature and become ready , a world super power comes in contact and says "do it I'll support you ! "
Yes cem - that will always be the drawback in countries where the tribal system is the accepted norm.
It didn't matter too much where the African nations were concerned but matters a great deal in this oil rich, religiously charged, territorially aware and strategically placed region.
you mean ticking bomb ;D :y
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There are always opponents Banjax, they will remain in the dark and in their shells until the day..
when the conditions mature and become ready , a world super power comes in contact and says "do it I'll support you ! "
Yes cem - that will always be the drawback in countries where the tribal system is the accepted norm.
It didn't matter too much where the African nations were concerned but matters a great deal in this oil rich, religiously charged, territorially aware and strategically placed region.
you mean ticking bomb ;D :y
To me Cem it is very scary to think of what the powers behind the politicians in the corridors of the Pentegan and Whitehall are now up to! :o :o :o :o :o
The CIA and MI6 are now without doubt burning much midnight oil! ::) ::) ::) ::)
Must not forget either the Russian FSB! :P :P :P :P
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Y'know.. all this talk of the middle east destabilising and plunging the rest of the world into economic and probably violent turmoil is thoroughly depressing.. especially having just paid £7k for double glazing and £2.2k for central heating in the same day and now staring at an empty bank account wondering what the point of it all is, the last thing I want to believe is that the world is about to thoroughly shit the bed..
Might as well go jump under a bus now, I reckon, before the next despot in line for the receiving end of an uprising decides to get in there first and nuke half the planet.
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Y'know.. all this talk of the middle east destabilising and plunging the rest of the world into economic and probably violent turmoil is thoroughly depressing.. especially having just paid £7k for double glazing and £2.2k for central heating in the same day and now staring at an empty bank account wondering what the point of it all is, the last thing I want to believe is that the world is about to thoroughly shit the bed..
Might as well go jump under a bus now, I reckon, before the next despot in line for the receiving end of an uprising decides to get in there first and nuke half the planet.
Cheer up Aaron! Just think your new double glazing will 'insulate' you some way from the oil prices to come! :D :D :D :D :D :D
See, there is always some good news around some where! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
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Y'know.. all this talk of the middle east destabilising and plunging the rest of the world into economic and probably violent turmoil is thoroughly depressing.. especially having just paid £7k for double glazing and £2.2k for central heating in the same day and now staring at an empty bank account wondering what the point of it all is, the last thing I want to believe is that the world is about to thoroughly shit the bed..
Might as well go jump under a bus now, I reckon, before the next despot in line for the receiving end of an uprising decides to get in there first and nuke half the planet.
It's just the world's way of telling you you should have put a jumper on and instead started that car project you've been promising yourself. ;D
Kevin
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Gaddafi is currently speaking live on TV. He should be in a home for the bewildered. :o :o ::)
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Gaddafi is currently speaking live on TV. He should be in a home for the bewildered. :o :o ::)
Earlier he was apparently burbling on about he wanted to be with the people in the square but it had started raining. A good omen he said!!
The man is one trip or two around a banana!! Now where are those nice young men in their white coats........?! :P :P :P
If it wasn't so serious it would be very funny! Like Hitler in his Berlin bunker in the last days of April 1945, Gaddafi is probably "seeing" all different ways his power will remain intact, as he is completely delusional! ::) ::) ::) ::)
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Y'know.. all this talk of the middle east destabilising and plunging the rest of the world into economic and probably violent turmoil is thoroughly depressing.. especially having just paid £7k for double glazing and £2.2k for central heating in the same day and now staring at an empty bank account wondering what the point of it all is, the last thing I want to believe is that the world is about to thoroughly shit the bed..
Might as well go jump under a bus now, I reckon, before the next despot in line for the receiving end of an uprising decides to get in there first and nuke half the planet.
Cheer up Aaron! Just think your new double glazing will 'insulate' you some way from the oil prices to come! :D :D :D :D :D :D
See, there is always some good news around some where! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
I'd love to take solace in my newly lowered heating bills thanks to my expensive 'A rated' windows and my new super efficient condensing boiler..
If my bills had gone down at all! So far I've spent ~£9000 to achieve the same thing putting a jumper on would have done, apparently.
It's just the world's way of telling you you should have put a jumper on and instead started that car project you've been promising yourself. ;D
I think you might be right, there.. time to sell the 'toys' and live off baked beans for a while to see if I can actually build some decent finances.
Or start selling drugs.
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Y'know.. all this talk of the middle east destabilising and plunging the rest of the world into economic and probably violent turmoil is thoroughly depressing.. especially having just paid £7k for double glazing and £2.2k for central heating in the same day and now staring at an empty bank account wondering what the point of it all is, the last thing I want to believe is that the world is about to thoroughly shit the bed..
Might as well go jump under a bus now, I reckon, before the next despot in line for the receiving end of an uprising decides to get in there first and nuke half the planet.
Cheer up Aaron! Just think your new double glazing will 'insulate' you some way from the oil prices to come! :D :D :D :D :D :D
See, there is always some good news around some where! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
I'd love to take solace in my newly lowered heating bills thanks to my expensive 'A rated' windows and my new super efficient condensing boiler..
If my bills had gone down at all! So far I've spent ~£9000 to achieve the same thing putting a jumper on would have done, apparently.
It's just the world's way of telling you you should have put a jumper on and instead started that car project you've been promising yourself. ;D
I think you might be right, there.. time to sell the 'toys' and live off baked beans for a while to see if I can actually build some decent finances.
Or start selling drugs.
No, do something much more profitable............start selling munitions!! ::) ::) ;)
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Good idea - munitions will be more useful in the coming post-nuclear zombie apocalypse ;)
Anyway back to the crazy old coot from Libiya..
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Good idea - munitions will be more useful in the coming post-nuclear zombie apocalypse ;)
Anyway back to the crazy old coot from Libiya..
Nah, by then it will be better to sell drugs, and lots of them as we will all need to be on a good trip away from the reality!! ::)
.............and on a more cheerful note, back to Gaddafi!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Good idea - munitions will be more useful in the coming post-nuclear zombie apocalypse ;)
Anyway back to the crazy old coot from Libiya..
Nah, by then it will be better to sell drugs, and lots of them as we will all need to be on a good trip away from the reality!! ::)
.............and on a more cheerful note, back to Gaddafi!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
You reminded me of something I saw an American friend of mine write on Facebook (yes, yes, I know, I know, but how else would I troll for women? I mean, er, keep up with my friends):
"I don't know if it is spelled Gadhafi (CNN), Gaddafi (BBC), Kadhafi (LA Times), or el-Qaddafi (NY Times), but that guy sure is an a-hole."
;D
(Someone subsequently decreed that the NY Times were correct.. but I have no clue, personally)
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Westerners have always been lazy when it comes to writing and pronouncing names of foreign people and places. The BBC have always made a fair fist of doing the job right. I could never get my head around why we gave places our own name in a foreign country .
Back to the plot.
I am wondering if there will be a huge exodus and thus a huge amount of genuine political refugees from these imploding countries. It matters because even if they don't end up in Britain the many that will end up in Southern Europe will be "processed" perhaps at a cost to the EU.
I also wonder how long before Morocco kicks off. The southern part has been in civil war( with I think the worlds longest current manned front line) for decades now and will be only too pleased to see the regime overthrown and for Western Sahara or whatever name to come back into being.
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Aaronjb, I also have a empty bank account and its for the last 3 years ;D I hope when my serial payments finish I can change this.. :(
Good insulation windows is really good for low heating bills but I experienced breathing problems in the past I hope you wont ... :-/
and for the news, again we are under the bombardment of one sided news I'm afraid :(
I have seen a protestor woman who have expensive jewels on fingers.. this is not average poeple there.. :-/
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Good idea - munitions will be more useful in the coming post-nuclear zombie apocalypse ;)
Anyway back to the crazy old coot from Libiya..
Nah, by then it will be better to sell drugs, and lots of them as we will all need to be on a good trip away from the reality!! ::)
.............and on a more cheerful note, back to Gaddafi!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
You reminded me of something I saw an American friend of mine write on Facebook (yes, yes, I know, I know, but how else would I troll for women? I mean, er, keep up with my friends):
"I don't know if it is spelled Gadhafi (CNN), Gaddafi (BBC), Kadhafi (LA Times), or el-Qaddafi (NY Times), but that guy sure is an a-hole."
;D
(Someone subsequently decreed that the NY Times were correct.. but I have no clue, personally)
yep..Qaddafi is correct for your language..
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Good idea - munitions will be more useful in the coming post-nuclear zombie apocalypse ;)
Anyway back to the crazy old coot from Libiya..
Nah, by then it will be better to sell drugs, and lots of them as we will all need to be on a good trip away from the reality!! ::)
.............and on a more cheerful note, back to Gaddafi!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
You reminded me of something I saw an American friend of mine write on Facebook (yes, yes, I know, I know, but how else would I troll for women? I mean, er, keep up with my friends):
"I don't know if it is spelled Gadhafi (CNN), Gaddafi (BBC), Kadhafi (LA Times), or el-Qaddafi (NY Times), but that guy sure is an a-hole."
;D
(Someone subsequently decreed that the NY Times were correct.. but I have no clue, personally)
yep..Qaddafi is correct for your language..
Never knew that Cem and it does show how English converts foreign names ::) ::) ::)! It is like the Holy book itself, the Qur'an, it is amazing how that can be spelt in "English"! :D :D ;)
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Good idea - munitions will be more useful in the coming post-nuclear zombie apocalypse ;)
Anyway back to the crazy old coot from Libiya..
Nah, by then it will be better to sell drugs, and lots of them as we will all need to be on a good trip away from the reality!! ::)
.............and on a more cheerful note, back to Gaddafi!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
You reminded me of something I saw an American friend of mine write on Facebook (yes, yes, I know, I know, but how else would I troll for women? I mean, er, keep up with my friends):
"I don't know if it is spelled Gadhafi (CNN), Gaddafi (BBC), Kadhafi (LA Times), or el-Qaddafi (NY Times), but that guy sure is an a-hole."
;D
(Someone subsequently decreed that the NY Times were correct.. but I have no clue, personally)
yep..Qaddafi is correct for your language..
Never knew that Cem and it does show how English converts foreign names ::) ::) ::)! It is like the Holy book itself, the Qur'an, it is amazing how that can be spelt in "English"! :D :D ;)
here is a saying translated as "if I understand something let me be an Arab" ;D ;D :D :y
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Just watching him on BBC News... It's actually very worrying. He's basically using and threatening Genocide so I reckon the UN/World will have to step in soon.
He's not going to stand down any time he's breathing and someone has to remove him from power, with lethal force if necessary.
:( :(
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Just watching him on BBC News... It's actually very worrying. He's basically threatening Genocide so I reckon the UN/World will have to step in soon.
He's not going to stand down any time he's breathing and someone has to remove him from power, with lethal force if necessary.
:( :(
It is far worse than that LD :( :(
Libya's own UN delegation yesterday claimed he was already committing genocide on his own people with the use of Libyan Air Force planes to bomb and strafe! Unconfirmed reports claim "100s" have been killed, and mercenaries are indiscriminately shooting anyone that moves:o :o :o :o
That is why their Ambassador to the UN was calling for outside help :( :(
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Just watching him on BBC News... It's actually very worrying. He's basically threatening Genocide so I reckon the UN/World will have to step in soon.
He's not going to stand down any time he's breathing and someone has to remove him from power, with lethal force if necessary.
:( :(
It is far worse than that LD :( :(
Libya's own UN delegation yesterday claimed he was already committing genocide on his own people with the use of Libyan Air Force planes to bomb and strafe! Unconfirmed reports claim "100s" have been killed, and mercenaries are indiscriminately shooting anyone that moves:o :o :o :o
That is why their Ambassador to the UN was calling for outside help :( :(
I realise that and edited my post accordingly ;)
Just seen William Hague's Press announcement... Looks like the UK are moving in readiness for required action, initially to extract all UK Nationals :(
This is actually a situation where I feel the UN Armed Forces should intervene... Not something I'd say often ::)
It also fills me with concern for the future with the MOD cuts :( :(
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Two things.
1. I wonder how many months(years?) it will take for the UN to agree the words of a resolution that will merely condem the situation. Because there is oil involved then we can expect military action from certain countries (no przes)
2. As I said earlier expect 10's if not 100's of thousands of displaced people claiming political asylum
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Y'know.. all this talk of the middle east destabilising and plunging the rest of the world into economic and probably violent turmoil is thoroughly depressing.. especially having just paid £7k for double glazing and £2.2k for central heating in the same day and now staring at an empty bank account wondering what the point of it all is, the last thing I want to believe is that the world is about to thoroughly shit the bed..
Might as well go jump under a bus now, I reckon, before the next despot in line for the receiving end of an uprising decides to get in there first and nuke half the planet.
Cheer up Aaron! Just think your new double glazing will 'insulate' you some way from the oil prices to come! :D :D :D :D :D :D
See, there is always some good news around some where! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
I'd love to take solace in my newly lowered heating bills thanks to my expensive 'A rated' windows and my new super efficient condensing boiler..
If my bills had gone down at all! So far I've spent ~£9000 to achieve the same thing putting a jumper on would have done, apparently.
It's just the world's way of telling you you should have put a jumper on and instead started that car project you've been promising yourself. ;D
I think you might be right, there.. time to sell the 'toys' and live off baked beans for a while to see if I can actually build some decent finances.
Or start selling drugs.
Won't be A rated for long - the gases used to get A rating leach out over a couple of years.
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Gaddafi is currently speaking live on TV. He should be in a home for the bewildered. :o :o ::)
Gadaffi Duck!!!!!
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The nutcase to be honest needs assassinating.
A little bit of SAS usage would save thousands of lives
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The nutcase to be honest needs assassinating.
A little bit of SAS usage would save thousands of lives
;D Martin, with many people similiar him, soon will pop another.. :-/
its the culture that creates those tyrants..
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The nutcase to be honest needs assassinating.
A little bit of SAS usage would save thousands of lives
;D Martin, with many people similiar him, soon will pop another.. :-/
its the culture that creates those tyrants..
you know why ? because those people believe absolute power, not democracy..
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The nutcase to be honest needs assassinating.
A little bit of SAS usage would save thousands of lives
;D Martin, with many people similiar him, soon will pop another.. :-/
its the culture that creates those tyrants..
you know why ? because those people believe absolute power, not democracy..
If they tried it here they would not last long.
Did you know our military swears allegiance to the crown not the government?
If we did have a nutcase try it on they would get arrested.
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The nutcase to be honest needs assassinating.
A little bit of SAS usage would save thousands of lives
;D Martin, with many people similiar him, soon will pop another.. :-/
its the culture that creates those tyrants..
you know why ? because those people believe absolute power, not democracy..
If they tried it here they would not last long.
Did you know our military swears allegiance to the crown not the government?
If we did have a nutcase try it on they would get arrested.
Indeed Martin, in a democracy that is the best way. In dictatorships the military swear allegence to the politiucal leader, with all the dangers that represents! ::) ::) ;)
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The nutcase to be honest needs assassinating.
A little bit of SAS usage would save thousands of lives
;D Martin, with many people similiar him, soon will pop another.. :-/
its the culture that creates those tyrants..
you know why ? because those people believe absolute power, not democracy..
If they tried it here they would not last long.
Did you know our military swears allegiance to the crown not the government?
If we did have a nutcase try it on they would get arrested.
Indeed Martin, in a democracy that is the best way. In dictatorships the military swear allegence to the politiucal leader, with all the dangers that represents! ::) ::) ;)
Although a large proportion of the Lybian military have "defected" and are supporting the "uprising" :y
[edit]Just realised I'm commenting on a political type thread... That doesn't happen often! ;D ;D[/edit]
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The nutcase to be honest needs assassinating.
A little bit of SAS usage would save thousands of lives
;D Martin, with many people similiar him, soon will pop another.. :-/
its the culture that creates those tyrants..
you know why ? because those people believe absolute power, not democracy..
If they tried it here they would not last long.
Did you know our military swears allegiance to the crown not the government?
If we did have a nutcase try it on they would get arrested.
Indeed Martin, in a democracy that is the best way. In dictatorships the military swear allegence to the politiucal leader, with all the dangers that represents! ::) ::) ;)
Although a large proportion of the Lybian military have "defected" and are supporting the "uprising" :y
[edit]Just realised I'm commenting on a political type thread... That doesn't happen often! ;D ;D[/edit]
Good on them :y
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Two things.
1. I wonder how many months(years?) it will take for the UN to agree the words of a resolution that will merely condem the situation. Because there is oil involved then we can expect military action from certain countries (no przes)
2. As I said earlier expect 10's if not 100's of thousands of displaced people claiming political asylum
Not necessarily Varche ;)
Remember the speedy UN resolution to wage war on Iraq in 1990 to get Saddam out of Kuwait, that had the full agreement, and participation, of the Arab League of countries, except one; Jordon, who were not forgiven by their Arab brothers for years afterwards! ;) ;)
It was a truly joint action, with even the Syrians contributing their army, and there was no "robbing" by the West of oil reserves. Quite the contrary, Saddam had blown up Kuwait's oil wells!
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.................and for those interested in how a major United Nations Resolution builds; Resolutions 660 to 666:
http://govt.eserver.org/gulf-war/un-resolutions-660-666.txt
8-) 8-)
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The nutcase to be honest needs assassinating.
A little bit of SAS usage would save thousands of lives
;D Martin, with many people similiar him, soon will pop another.. :-/
its the culture that creates those tyrants..
I certainly agree with that cem.
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The nutcase to be honest needs assassinating.
A little bit of SAS usage would save thousands of lives
;D Martin, with many people similiar him, soon will pop another.. :-/
its the culture that creates those tyrants..
you know why ? because those people believe absolute power, not democracy..
Yes, power is the reason for being.
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Nice to see The Condems burst into action getting its foreign nationals out of Lybia so quickly. wait a minute we haven't done it yet. The charter plane has a fault? WTF. Is that the ONLY plane available to Britain in an emergency. RAF? Ryanair? Alan Sugars jet?
We should have acted quicker like our European neighbours did. Even Turkey managed to get its nationals out and they used a ship (not the fastest of transport) .
The only excuse is that maybe they are planning a simultaneous assault with military planes to rescue all the Europeans stuck in desert camps while the charter plane lands in Tripoli.
I am glad I am not stuck there.
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Nice to see The Condems burst into action getting its foreign nationals out of Lybia so quickly. wait a minute we haven't done it yet. The charter plane has a fault? WTF. Is that the ONLY plane available to Britain in an emergency. RAF? Ryanair? Alan Sugars jet?
We should have acted quicker like our European neighbours did. Even Turkey managed to get its nationals out and they used a ship (not the fastest of transport) .
The only excuse is that maybe they are planning a simultaneous assault with military planes to rescue all the Europeans stuck in desert camps while the charter plane lands in Tripoli.
I am glad I am not stuck there.
Sorry, Varche, I just made a new thread as you were posting about the same issue here. :-[
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Not many years ago the RAF had a "fleet" of aircraft .. called Transport Command .... VC10's, Tristars, Hercules ( in years before we had Comets, Brittanias, Argosys) these were used for the movement of troops atound the world, and the evacuation of civilians when required. My first "war" was the evacuation of Cyprus after the Turks invaded it in the 70's
This no longer applies... the labour government prevented the replacement of the fleet as it got older and worn out ... the Hercules was built in the 1960's, as was the VC10 ... a few are still flying in the RAF but are not suitable for the evacuation role.
Troop movement is, mostly, done by "civilian charter" .. which is what has be arranged for the Lbyian evacuation ... however this has severe problems:
The crews have to agree to go to a danger zone as they are civilians.
The aircraft has to be chartered with the specifics of a danger zone.
Insurance has to be arranged and paid for.
The aircraft operates under civilian rules, so requires diplomatic clearance from Libya before it can depart.
All these things take time....unlike the 70's when a crew was simply ordered to go at 2 hours notice, because they, and an aircraft, were permanently on 2 hour readiness.
You can't run a taxi firm without any cars .... :(
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Nice to see The Condems burst into action getting its foreign nationals out of Lybia so quickly. wait a minute we haven't done it yet. The charter plane has a fault? WTF. Is that the ONLY plane available to Britain in an emergency. RAF? Ryanair? Alan Sugars jet?
We should have acted quicker like our European neighbours did. Even Turkey managed to get its nationals out and they used a ship (not the fastest of transport) .
The only excuse is that maybe they are planning a simultaneous assault with military planes to rescue all the Europeans stuck in desert camps while the charter plane lands in Tripoli.
I am glad I am not stuck there.
But Varche my dear man, we are British and it is seen to be very improper and unseemly not to act as though nothing is happening, avoiding the panick as displayed by the lesser nationals do!! ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Remember that wonderful scene in the Carry-On film, Up the Kyber?? All hell braking loose, but the British carry on enjoying their lunch! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
We are really like that you know. Goes with the stiff upper lip, along with not being seen to abandoning ones duty and loyalty in the interests of our own safety :D :D :D ;)
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Nice to see The Condems burst into action getting its foreign nationals out of Lybia so quickly. wait a minute we haven't done it yet. The charter plane has a fault? WTF. Is that the ONLY plane available to Britain in an emergency. RAF? Ryanair? Alan Sugars jet?
We should have acted quicker like our European neighbours did. Even Turkey managed to get its nationals out and they used a ship (not the fastest of transport) .
The only excuse is that maybe they are planning a simultaneous assault with military planes to rescue all the Europeans stuck in desert camps while the charter plane lands in Tripoli.
I am glad I am not stuck there.
both airplanes and ships are used.. but as the distance is short (relatively) and 27000 :o Turkish citizen needs to be evacuated ships must be used (also for safety reasons commandos included in those ships) and battleships were send also :-? :-?
what ? are we going to war ? ;D
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Nice to see The Condems burst into action getting its foreign nationals out of Lybia so quickly. wait a minute we haven't done it yet. The charter plane has a fault? WTF. Is that the ONLY plane available to Britain in an emergency. RAF? Ryanair? Alan Sugars jet?
We should have acted quicker like our European neighbours did. Even Turkey managed to get its nationals out and they used a ship (not the fastest of transport) .
The only excuse is that maybe they are planning a simultaneous assault with military planes to rescue all the Europeans stuck in desert camps while the charter plane lands in Tripoli.
I am glad I am not stuck there.
both airplanes and ships are used.. but as the distance is short (relatively) and 27000 :o Turkish citizen needs to be evacuated ships must be used (also for safety reasons commandos included in those ships) and battleships were send also :-? :-?
what ? are we going to war ? ;D
Well cem it was an impressive effort particularly for the numbers involved. Well done Turkey.
The problem in Britain was we couldn't get an aeroplane to actually send it to rescue our nationals. Then when one was found it was hours before it took 0ff. :( :(
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And the F.O. lied and sais it had taken off, almost 24 hours before it actually did.
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Nice to see The Condems burst into action getting its foreign nationals out of Lybia so quickly. wait a minute we haven't done it yet. The charter plane has a fault? WTF. Is that the ONLY plane available to Britain in an emergency. RAF? Ryanair? Alan Sugars jet?
We should have acted quicker like our European neighbours did. Even Turkey managed to get its nationals out and they used a ship (not the fastest of transport) .
The only excuse is that maybe they are planning a simultaneous assault with military planes to rescue all the Europeans stuck in desert camps while the charter plane lands in Tripoli.
I am glad I am not stuck there.
both airplanes and ships are used.. but as the distance is short (relatively) and 27000 :o Turkish citizen needs to be evacuated ships must be used (also for safety reasons commandos included in those ships) and battleships were send also :-? :-?
what ? are we going to war ? ;D
Well cem it was an impressive effort particularly for the numbers involved. Well done Turkey.
The problem in Britain was we couldn't get an aeroplane to actually send it to rescue our nationals. Then when one was found it was hours before it took 0ff. :( :(
we are late also , it was obvious for many days and still there are many people waiting :-/
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Not many years ago the RAF had a "fleet" of aircraft .. called Transport Command .... VC10's, Tristars, Hercules ( in years before we had Comets, Brittanias, Argosys) these were used for the movement of troops atound the world, and the evacuation of civilians when required. My first "war" was the evacuation of Cyprus after the Turks invaded it in the 70's
This no longer applies... the labour government prevented the replacement of the fleet as it got older and worn out ... the Hercules was built in the 1960's, as was the VC10 ... a few are still flying in the RAF but are not suitable for the evacuation role.
Troop movement is, mostly, done by "civilian charter" .. which is what has be arranged for the Lbyian evacuation ... however this has severe problems:
The crews have to agree to go to a danger zone as they are civilians.
The aircraft has to be chartered with the specifics of a danger zone.
Insurance has to be arranged and paid for.
The aircraft operates under civilian rules, so requires diplomatic clearance from Libya before it can depart.
All these things take time....unlike the 70's when a crew was simply ordered to go at 2 hours notice, because they, and an aircraft, were permanently on 2 hour readiness.
You can't run a taxi firm without any cars .... :(
there was no need for evacuation we had no problem with Brits :y
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All this talk of Libya has reminded me of a very proud moment or two in our recent national history. ::) >:( >:(
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1284132/Tony-Blair-special-adviser-dictator-Gaddafis-son.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1211528/Brown-didnt-press-Gaddafi-IRA-compensation-fears-upset-Libya.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1359910/Libyas-Gaddafi-DID-personally-order-Lockerbie-bombing-claims-Justice-minister.html
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All this talk of Libya has reminded me of a very proud moment or two in our recent national history. ::) >:( >:(
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1284132/Tony-Blair-special-adviser-dictator-Gaddafis-son.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1211528/Brown-didnt-press-Gaddafi-IRA-compensation-fears-upset-Libya.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1359910/Libyas-Gaddafi-DID-personally-order-Lockerbie-bombing-claims-Justice-minister.html
Diplomacy and politics :-/
as far as I understand , many countries had firms/workers in Libya..for example our construction firms build many things , including military areas,buldings.. also for oil.. and yours..
capitalist world , who pays the money is saluted ;D ::) :y
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These men are (supposedly) socialists Cem. ;)
Captialism doesnt always have to be crooked, corrupt and unprincipled. ;)
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These men are (supposedly) socialists Cem. ;)
Captialism doesnt always have to be crooked, corrupt and unprincipled. ;)
peh.. they need to be industrialized first,create a social working class then claim to be socialist.. religious rules everywhere and socialism.. what a mixture :P :P
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all these peoples mobiles and money robbed!!
those protestors want to take the tyrant down or they want different things.. I hope Qaddafi smash their heads >:( >:( >:( >:(
http://www18.gazetevatan.com/fotogaleri/resim.asp?kat=18229&page_number=1
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ironically the F.O. were indeed the first UK citizens to F.O. out of Libya ;D