Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Nickbat on 23 February 2011, 22:17:37
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This dragged me temporarily out of retirement. I had to have a rant. ;)
The way the government has reacted to the evacuation of UK nationals in Libya is shameful. Their chartered Astraeus plane has only just left LGW. The process of evacuating other countries' nationals has been underway for some time. Why weren't the RAF VC10s or Tristars sent in earlier? Oh, yes they've probably been scrapped while we weren't looking. Seeing Hague on TV saying that we've done more than many other countries really gets my goat.
>:( >:( >:(
I have to agree with Ms Raccoon's take on this.
http://www.annaraccoon.com/politics/britain%E2%80%99s-shame/
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The Foreign Office announced that the plane was in the air last night. It still sat on the tarmac at Gatwick earlier this evening. ::)
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Maybe Bruce Dickinson (the lead singer ) is flying it then ?
He is a qualified commercial pilot, and flies passenger jets between tours.
Anorak off. ::) ;D
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Welcome back Nickbat :y :y
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Sorry Albs, I accidentally deleted the post so no one will know what you are talking about. ;) ;D
My post was along the lines of: the aircraft on the way to Libya now is the same one as used for the Iron Maiden Tour of 2008.
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Astraeus/Boeing-757-23A/1769416/&sid=4d0e5fb44106c10b81d2924bb7b9bc77
:y
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Hell and handcart remain the main qualifiers when considering the ability of Westminster and other national bodies to act sensibly and decisively for the public good.
What a oppsing shambles. [smiley=thumbdown.gif] [smiley=thumbdown.gif]
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i'd love to know which airline refused to send a plane >:(
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Yes I can just imagine our stiff upper lip civil servants. Need a plane? haven't got any in the RAF and in any case we just sacked the pilots. Got plenty of back office boys with desks if that would help.
what about a charter plane? can't get insurance, need to file a flight plan a week in advance. Ryanair would charter us one it but it wouldn't be on the ground long enough in Tripoli to pick anyone up unless they had paid in advance for priority boarding and got a printed boarding card...............
God help us if there was a war situation, we would have to ask the French for planes.
PS we will wake up tomorrow to find that they have redeemed themselves and saved all the foreign nationals stuck out in the desert and shown what Britain is made of.
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Even on Conservative Home, the Tory site, the government response (especially Hague's) is being panned. And rightly so.
http://playpolitical.typepad.com/uk_conservative/2011/02/video-william-hague-makes-statement-on-rescuing-stranded-britons-from-libya.html
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Ok chaps, I know everyone is not going to agree with me here but......
It was their choice to live and work over there, make no mistake anyone worth their salt knows of Libya's history.
So when things did go tits up and they finally did get out of the country why all the media attention like they were returning heros?
It annoys me because they are well off with great jobs, not over there on a peace keeping or an aid mission.
My thoughts on this matter is the same as Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan.
If you are stupid enough to work over in these places as a civilian then expect the worse!
Sorry, Rant over!
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Ok chaps, I know everyone is not going to agree with me here but......
It was their choice to live and work over there, make no mistake anyone worth their salt knows of Libya's history.
So when things did go tits up and they finally did get out of the country why all the media attention like they were returning heros?
It annoys me because they are well off with great jobs, not over there on a peace keeping or an aid mission.
My thoughts on this matter is the same as Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan.
If you are stupid enough to work over in these places as a civilian then expect the worse!
Sorry, Rant over!
Yes there is a degree of merit in what you say BSW but what this does show (quite painfully) is the parlous state of our ability to act strategically in the interests of our citizens abroad.
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Ok chaps, I know everyone is not going to agree with me here but......
It was their choice to live and work over there, make no mistake anyone worth their salt knows of Libya's history.
So when things did go tits up and they finally did get out of the country why all the media attention like they were returning heros?
It annoys me because they are well off with great jobs, not over there on a peace keeping or an aid mission.
My thoughts on this matter is the same as Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan.
If you are stupid enough to work over in these places as a civilian then expect the worse!
Sorry, Rant over!
Sorry, but totally disagree.
Call me old-fashioned if you like, but I believe that UK citizenship entitles you to protection by your home country wherever you are and for whatever reason.
As every other country treats its citizens. :y
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Ok chaps, I know everyone is not going to agree with me here but......
It was their choice to live and work over there, make no mistake anyone worth their salt knows of Libya's history.
So when things did go tits up and they finally did get out of the country why all the media attention like they were returning heros?
It annoys me because they are well off with great jobs, not over there on a peace keeping or an aid mission.
My thoughts on this matter is the same as Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan.
If you are stupid enough to work over in these places as a civilian then expect the worse!
Sorry, Rant over!
Sorry, but totally disagree.
Call me old-fashioned if you like, but I believe that UK citizenship entitles you to protection by your home country wherever you are and for whatever reason.
As every other country treats its citizens. :y
Very broad statement there
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Mind you, with this news, you may as well give up if you're a UK citizen abroad. ::) ::)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12554818
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Ok chaps, I know everyone is not going to agree with me here but......
It was their choice to live and work over there, make no mistake anyone worth their salt knows of Libya's history.
So when things did go tits up and they finally did get out of the country why all the media attention like they were returning heros?
It annoys me because they are well off with great jobs, not over there on a peace keeping or an aid mission.
My thoughts on this matter is the same as Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan.
If you are stupid enough to work over in these places as a civilian then expect the worse!
Sorry, Rant over!
Sorry, but totally disagree.
Call me old-fashioned if you like, but I believe that UK citizenship entitles you to protection by your home country wherever you are and for whatever reason.
As every other country treats its citizens. :y
Very broad statement there
Maybe broad, but largely true. Name me one country that would not provide assistance to a national in trouble.
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Ok chaps, I know everyone is not going to agree with me here but......
It was their choice to live and work over there, make no mistake anyone worth their salt knows of Libya's history.
So when things did go tits up and they finally did get out of the country why all the media attention like they were returning heros?
It annoys me because they are well off with great jobs, not over there on a peace keeping or an aid mission.
My thoughts on this matter is the same as Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan.
If you are stupid enough to work over in these places as a civilian then expect the worse!
Sorry, Rant over!
Sorry, but totally disagree.
Call me old-fashioned if you like, but I believe that UK citizenship entitles you to protection by your home country wherever you are and for whatever reason.
As every other country treats its citizens. :y
Very broad statement there[/quote
I cant, As I cant be 100% sure
But I bet there are plenty of African and Asian countries that would have bigger things to worry about then to charter a plane to go and pick up a couple of middle class toffs from their little "adventure" abroad
I know that I am taking things out of context but you very much are as well. I think the U.K goverment have done more then say the Somali or Ethiopian goverments would have done.
A lot of these people were not put there by our goverment, they chose to work and live in Libya
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Ok chaps, I know everyone is not going to agree with me here but......
It was their choice to live and work over there, make no mistake anyone worth their salt knows of Libya's history.
So when things did go tits up and they finally did get out of the country why all the media attention like they were returning heros?
It annoys me because they are well off with great jobs, not over there on a peace keeping or an aid mission.
My thoughts on this matter is the same as Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan.
If you are stupid enough to work over in these places as a civilian then expect the worse!
Sorry, Rant over!
True they choose to do the work in these places. My brother in law worked in Libya for a few years and I am sure he would have a suitable rebuttal for your comments. Suffice to say he made a lot of sacrifices for the money he made. Work conditions were poor, not much time off back home with his family, nothing to do, poor food, no alcohol, heat intolerable, internal flights by pilots that had been banned from piloting in civilised countries, planes that broke down IN flight and so on.
However the point is that he and others like it are well paid because the host country and the exploration company (not necessarily Libyan) needs their skills to get oil, gas or whatever out of the ground. Then WE get to use the oil that comes out. Without these foreign nationals oil extraction just wouldn't be anything like as efficient.
the media attention is another thing altogether. Not the fault of the expats but the greed of the media companies making money from any story they can run and big up. Britain is a country obsessed with celebs.
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Ok chaps, I know everyone is not going to agree with me here but......
It was their choice to live and work over there, make no mistake anyone worth their salt knows of Libya's history.
So when things did go tits up and they finally did get out of the country why all the media attention like they were returning heros?
It annoys me because they are well off with great jobs, not over there on a peace keeping or an aid mission.
My thoughts on this matter is the same as Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan.
If you are stupid enough to work over in these places as a civilian then expect the worse!
Sorry, Rant over!
True they choose to do the work in these places. My brother in law worked in Libya for a few years and I am sure he would have a suitable rebuttal for your comments. Suffice to say he made a lot of sacrifices for the money he made. Work conditions were poor, not much time off back home with his family, nothing to do, poor food, no alcohol, heat intolerable, internal flights by pilots that had been banned from piloting in civilised countries, planes that broke down IN flight and so on.
However the point is that he and others like it are well paid because the host country and the exploration company (not necessarily Libyan) needs their skills to get oil, gas or whatever out of the ground. Then WE get to use the oil that comes out. Without these foreign nationals oil extraction just wouldn't be anything like as efficient.
the media attention is another thing altogether. Not the fault of the expats but the greed of the media companies making money from any story they can run and big up. Britain is a country obsessed with celebs.
I think that about sums my frustration with the whole thing up.
At the end of the day as you say, we all make choices. Should the goverment be blamed for the odd few that make bad ones?
And they are nearly all home safely, whats the problem? We cant click our fingers and teleport them home in seconds
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Ok chaps, I know everyone is not going to agree with me here but......
It was their choice to live and work over there, make no mistake anyone worth their salt knows of Libya's history.
So when things did go tits up and they finally did get out of the country why all the media attention like they were returning heros?
It annoys me because they are well off with great jobs, not over there on a peace keeping or an aid mission.
My thoughts on this matter is the same as Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan.
If you are stupid enough to work over in these places as a civilian then expect the worse!
Sorry, Rant over!
Sorry, but totally disagree.
Call me old-fashioned if you like, but I believe that UK citizenship entitles you to protection by your home country wherever you are and for whatever reason.
As every other country treats its citizens. :y
Very broad statement there[/quote
I cant, As I cant be 100% sure
But I bet there are plenty of African and Asian countries that would have bigger things to worry about then to charter a plane to go and pick up a couple of middle class toffs from their little "adventure" abroad
I know that I am taking things out of context but you very much are as well. I think the U.K goverment have done more then say the Somali or Ethiopian goverments would have done.
A lot of these people were not put there by our goverment, they chose to work and live in Libya
Enjoying a nice Tax free Salary with the benefit of popping home for NHS, Pension or Benefits...... :-X :-X
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Ok chaps, I know everyone is not going to agree with me here but......
It was their choice to live and work over there, make no mistake anyone worth their salt knows of Libya's history.
So when things did go tits up and they finally did get out of the country why all the media attention like they were returning heros?
It annoys me because they are well off with great jobs, not over there on a peace keeping or an aid mission.
My thoughts on this matter is the same as Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan.
If you are stupid enough to work over in these places as a civilian then expect the worse!
Sorry, Rant over!
Sorry, but totally disagree.
Call me old-fashioned if you like, but I believe that UK citizenship entitles you to protection by your home country wherever you are and for whatever reason.
As every other country treats its citizens. :y
Very broad statement there[/quote
I cant, As I cant be 100% sure
But I bet there are plenty of African and Asian countries that would have bigger things to worry about then to charter a plane to go and pick up a couple of middle class toffs from their little "adventure" abroad
I know that I am taking things out of context but you very much are as well. I think the U.K goverment have done more then say the Somali or Ethiopian goverments would have done.
A lot of these people were not put there by our goverment, they chose to work and live in Libya
Enjoying a nice Tax free Salary with the benefit of popping home for NHS, Pension or Benefits...... :-X :-X
Thank you!
Im not an internet troll or a hatemonger, im just fed up with the whole "The world owes me a living" view that we have in this country!
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i agree with omegabsw - they knew the risks, let them or their companies charter flights to get them out - they're foreign nationals taking money out of a corrupt and oppressive regime - the upside is the huge pay, the reason is its dangerous - dont take the money if you cant handle it, and dont bitch about it when it all goes pete tong :y
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i agree with omegabsw - they knew the risks, let them or their companies charter flights to get them out - they're foreign nationals taking money out of a corrupt and oppressive regime - the upside is the huge pay, the reason is its dangerous - dont take the money if you cant handle it, and dont bitch about it when it all goes pete tong :y
I agree totally and not really into politics, most of these guys are the equivalent to commercial mercenaries and should accept the risk that goes with the pay / job.
Declare your income and pay UK taxes etc to be part of the norm, anything else just reinforces the mercenary attitude and should be treated as such, imho....take your money, take your chance....seemples... ::) ::) ::)
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i agree with omegabsw - they knew the risks, let them or their companies charter flights to get them out - they're foreign nationals taking money out of a corrupt and oppressive regime - the upside is the huge pay, the reason is its dangerous - dont take the money if you cant handle it, and dont bitch about it when it all goes pete tong :y
I agree totally and not really into politics, most of these guys are the equivalent to commercial mercenaries and should accept the risk that goes with the pay / job.
Declare your income and pay UK taxes etc to be part of the norm, anything else just reinforces the mercenary attitude and should be treated as such, imho....take your money, take your chance....seemples... ::) ::) ::)
I agree with all these comments. :y :y :y :y
You take the money and accept the risks ::) ::) ::) ::)
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i agree with omegabsw - they knew the risks, let them or their companies charter flights to get them out - they're foreign nationals taking money out of a corrupt and oppressive regime - the upside is the huge pay, the reason is its dangerous - dont take the money if you cant handle it, and dont bitch about it when it all goes pete tong :y
I agree totally and not really into politics, most of these guys are the equivalent to commercial mercenaries and should accept the risk that goes with the pay / job.
Declare your income and pay UK taxes etc to be part of the norm, anything else just reinforces the mercenary attitude and should be treated as such, imho....take your money, take your chance....seemples... ::) ::) ::)
I agree with all these comments. :y :y :y :y
You take the money and accept the risks ::) ::) ::) ::)
Some of the comments on here would be funny were they not tragic.
"most of these guys are the equivalent to commercial mercenaries"
Huh? How many are working for UK companies to further UK interests? How many are on short-term contracts and thus still subject to UK taxes? How many are visiting relatives? How many are volunteers?
You don't know the answer to any of these questions, yet still like to portray them all as 'mercenaries'. Besides which, even if they are living as ex-pats, they still enjoy (in my world) the protection of their mother country.
"Take your money, take your chance." A puerile comment to make in the light of the very real personal danger these people are facing.
Sheesh. >:( >:( >:(
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i agree with omegabsw - they knew the risks, let them or their companies charter flights to get them out - they're foreign nationals taking money out of a corrupt and oppressive regime - the upside is the huge pay, the reason is its dangerous - dont take the money if you cant handle it, and dont bitch about it when it all goes pete tong :y
I agree totally and not really into politics, most of these guys are the equivalent to commercial mercenaries and should accept the risk that goes with the pay / job.
Declare your income and pay UK taxes etc to be part of the norm, anything else just reinforces the mercenary attitude and should be treated as such, imho....take your money, take your chance....seemples... ::) ::) ::)
I agree with all these comments. :y :y :y :y
You take the money and accept the risks ::) ::) ::) ::)
Some of the comments on here would be funny were they not tragic.
"most of these guys are the equivalent to commercial mercenaries"
Huh? How many are working for UK companies to further UK interests? How many are on short-term contracts and thus still subject to UK taxes? How many are visiting relatives? How many are volunteers?
You don't know the answer to any of these questions, yet still like to portray them all as 'mercenaries'. Besides which, even if they are living as ex-pats, they still enjoy (in my world) the protection of their mother country.
"Take your money, take your chance." A puerile comment to make in the light of the very real personal danger these people are facing.
Sheesh. >:( >:( >:(
howcome everyones a capitilist 'til it goes tits up then their bleating for their own society to bail them out? live by the dollar, die by the dollar - harsh but fair - if not for the filthy lucre, why on earth would you live in Libya? i'll accept there may be some aid workers who deserve a free flight out of there, but the vast majority are chasing tax free cash :(
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I think that there are some MASSIVE generalistions going on in this thread! :o and also some pretty unattractive 'Sod 'em' attitudes..... At least they have the get up and go to try and make a better life for them and their families, and living in the developing world ain't no picnic!! It's not all G&T's by the pool!! >:(
Having said that there no reason why they shouldn't be charged for their evacuation, because as noted many do command high salaries, but not all do... Those who do, have undoubtably worked hard to gain the qualifications and experience, more often than not here in the UK (and paid the taxes!) and are not the types who will sit around moaning, looking all green eyed at the neighbour with the MV6 on the drive!! ::)
That's my rant over, people don't deserve to left to die in the desert.... :-?
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i agree with omegabsw - they knew the risks, let them or their companies charter flights to get them out - they're foreign nationals taking money out of a corrupt and oppressive regime - the upside is the huge pay, the reason is its dangerous - dont take the money if you cant handle it, and dont bitch about it when it all goes pete tong :y
I agree totally and not really into politics, most of these guys are the equivalent to commercial mercenaries and should accept the risk that goes with the pay / job.
Declare your income and pay UK taxes etc to be part of the norm, anything else just reinforces the mercenary attitude and should be treated as such, imho....take your money, take your chance....seemples... ::) ::) ::)
I agree with all these comments. :y :y :y :y
You take the money and accept the risks ::) ::) ::) ::)
Some of the comments on here would be funny were they not tragic.
"most of these guys are the equivalent to commercial mercenaries"
Huh? How many are working for UK companies to further UK interests? How many are on short-term contracts and thus still subject to UK taxes? How many are visiting relatives? How many are volunteers?
You don't know the answer to any of these questions, yet still like to portray them all as 'mercenaries'. Besides which, even if they are living as ex-pats, they still enjoy (in my world) the protection of their mother country.
"Take your money, take your chance." A puerile comment to make in the light of the very real personal danger these people are facing.
Sheesh. >:( >:( >:(
There you go again Nick, my opinion that's all, but because you do not agree with it you insult it! >:( >:( >:( >:( You don't change!
In any job there is always an element of being paid to reflect your responsibilities, and in some specialist areas to reflect the personal dangers you face. This has been the case since certainly capitalism got off the ground, and is accepted by those in such positions.
When in the armed forces, or working on an oil rig, or perhaps being an explosives expert, let alone a someone working on any energy producing facilities in a highly volatile region, that individual most know the dangers will always be present. The couple who sailed around Somali and were kidnapped knew the risk, but still took it. It is all down to personal choice, and in the case of those in Libya, and other volatile regions, they are either paid accordingly, or frankly, they should be! But all these people do take the money and take their chance. ;)
In these cases it is NOT necessarily down to the British Government (who are responsible for spending our money) to organise at tremendous cost rescue missions regardless! It never has been throughout history, but in these modern times of the nanny state, as many have stated on here, it is "expected" by those who put themselves at great risk that they should be rescued by our armed forces, or hardware i.e. aircraft.
Yes morality must come into it, along with humanity, if a whole national group are in trouble, or an exceptional special case, as has proved the fact now, but for everyone to think the British Government, no more than USA administration for its nationals, should be automatically bailed out is wrong.
;)
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i've said before and will say again - every decision has a price - if you're willing to pay that price, if you think the reward is enough to risk it then go ahead go work in Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan greed is good - you're making the right decision for yourself and your family, but you may pop up on a grainy film on you tube or Aljazeera with a gun at your head, but hey - its worth it right? better yet you're caught in the middle of a civil war with ironically british made missiles and bullets flying at you, but arms trades gotta make money too right? whats the problem? :y
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I think you'll find that most expats who live in 'iffy' parts of the world, are pretty hard nosed types who will have gone into the situation with their eyes wide open, and will either have an emergency cash stash and/or a damn good insurance policy! As many people have said they've taken the money and the chance, and as I said before there's no reason why they shouldn't be charged for their repatration!
This country spends billions propping up millions who have never paid into the system, both UK citizens and foriegners. We pay child benefit to foreigners whose kids don't even live in the UK, we pay winter fuel payments to pensioners living in hot climates, the list goes on.....
These expats arn't the sort who will come back demanding a council flat and benefits. They'll pick themselves up, dust themselves down and will go out and find another job. Some will head off abroad again and some won't, but IMO these are the sort of people that the UK should be helping out!!
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Frankly I have been shocked to the core by the views of some folk on here about getting our nationals out. I can only put it down to insularity ( To spell that out pull up the drawbridges and man the battlements and keep Johnny Foreigner OUT of our precious little isle)
I can guarantee that no other country will have its forums full of folk saying we shouldn't have "rescued" our guys, let em rot, they are mercenaries so they can shoot their own way out, they chose that lifestyle etc etc. No what those countries have is a strong sense of National Pride and they just get on and do the right thing for their nationals. If the Israelis had had folk there they would have been the first to get them out. Sadly Britain just doesn't seem to have that sort of pride in itself.
As to the cost Ryanair can send a plane from Britain to Southern Spain and back and make a profit on £70 a head , so say £45,000 round trip. Absolute peanuts compared with the waste every day in government depts, food bought and binned because it has reached its sell by date.
As for my brother in law. He did his time on the oilfields, used the money to pay off a chunk of his mortgage and now works in Britain still paying tax and contributing to the economy. I can't see anything wrong with that.
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I think you'll find that most expats who live in 'iffy' parts of the world, are pretty hard nosed types who will have gone into the situation with their eyes wide open, and will either have an emergency cash stash and/or a damn good insurance policy! As many people have said they've taken the money and the chance, and as I said before there's no reason why they shouldn't be charged for their repatration!
This country spends billions propping up millions who have never paid into the system, both UK citizens and foriegners. We pay child benefit to foreigners whose kids don't even live in the UK, we pay winter fuel payments to pensioners living in hot climates, the list goes on.....
These expats arn't the sort who will come back demanding a council flat and benefits. They'll pick themselves up, dust themselves down and will go out and find another job. Some will head off abroad again and some won't, but IMO these are the sort of people that the UK should be helping out!!
I agree with the rest of what you said apart from charging for reptriation. I guess we would then be the first country to do that.
I have to take issue with you on winter fuel allowance. Why? Well if you have paid into the system (as pretty well all current pensioners have) and they qualify for winter fuel allowance then they should get it regardless of where they choose to live (be it the darkest coldest depths of Scotland, the Scilly Isles or Spain) I live in Spain and the houses aren't designed for cold weather and it does get cold here. We had lots of snow and minus 14 deg C 5 years ago. Every winter the temp gets down to or below freezing. Try keeping warm without central heating in that. Before you ask, no I don't and won't ever get winter fuel allowance and won't moan about it.
But i do agree with you about looking after "our own".
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OK fair point Varche, and you're right that if people have paid into the system..... Hope it helps with the AC bills though ;D
Seems that there's an opinion here that expats are abunch of no good mercenary, scrounging scumbags who deserve what their getting, while waiting on their fat arses for the nanny state to come and pick them up.... :(
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I think you'll find that most expats who live in 'iffy' parts of the world, are pretty hard nosed types who will have gone into the situation with their eyes wide open, and will either have an emergency cash stash and/or a damn good insurance policy! As many people have said they've taken the money and the chance, and as I said before there's no reason why they shouldn't be charged for their repatration!
This country spends billions propping up millions who have never paid into the system, both UK citizens and foriegners. We pay child benefit to foreigners whose kids don't even live in the UK, we pay winter fuel payments to pensioners living in hot climates, the list goes on.....
These expats arn't the sort who will come back demanding a council flat and benefits. They'll pick themselves up, dust themselves down and will go out and find another job. Some will head off abroad again and some won't, but IMO these are the sort of people that the UK should be helping out!!
I would have to totally agree with you on most of those points.
Believe it or not the one at the bottom as well.
If people would read my inital post then you will realise that I was more upset about the media attention that they recieved when they got home.
Why should they be portrayed as heros when they got themselves in trouble and had to be bailed out by the British taxpayer?
Nick retaliated with a broad statement which got my back up and I bit.
I never once wanted them to be left out to die in the desert but likewise why should it be taken for granted that my taxes will be used to get these people out of a country that they chose to live and work in, meanwhile im struggling to pay my mortgage, feed and cloth my children and put petrol in my car, but its still ok to tax my earnings, tax me for living in a house and then on top of all that, take a fifth of everything I spend as well?
What would happen if these sort of problems happened in a country like Pakistan or India? We would have to send the whole RAF out to collect our "British citizens" that "chose" to be there.
As mentioned before, why would you want to work in Libya? Maybe its because you work for an oil company, maybe you work for the British goverment. Something tells me that whoever is working out there is doing it, not for the love of the country, not to try and develop the third world, not out on an aid mission but because the financial rewards are great and they are greedy.
I agree with points that everyone has made in this thread but at the end of the day, we all make our own choices in life and in my opinion going to work in Libya is not what I would consider as "Safe" regardless of the recent problems that are goin on at the moment there.
And to go back to the OP's first comment about how the goverment has acted "Shamefully" I disagree. Libya's Goverment has acted shamefully for years, Israel's Goverment has acted shamefully for years Lebanons goverment has acted shamefully for years, as has Palestinian goverment.
These people cannot live side by side without killing each other because of their religious views.
So why is it right that Britons should go and live with them just because its "For the good of the country" and "Third world countries cannot develop without us"
Rubbish, people are greedy for oil and money and so blinkered by religion that they are prepared to kill or die for all of the above!
Globalization and religion will lead to WW3 and we are so deep in it that we will be at the centre of whatever happens, weather we like it or not.
So in the scheme of things dispute and unrest in a North African/Middle Eastern country is not news to me. Likewise getting a few plane loads of British citizens out of a country that has always been hostile to western cultures is not news to me either.
You watch once all this has blown over and these countries finally get new goverments, how many of these goverments are going ro be pro American? None, thats for sure.
I can see some of these weapons that America has sold Egypt, Jordan and the rest of its old Middle Eastern "allies" returning to haunt them one day.
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Regardless of what you think about ex-pats I'd hope we live in a country with the resources to help all its' citizens if they get into difficulty in other parts of the world, regardless of their reason for being there.
What the last couple of days has highlighted is that, regardless of whether the will is there, the capability simply doesn't exist to evacuate a couple of hundred British citizens from a hotspot. :o
What a ridiculous spectacle it was that the government had to go cap in hand round the charter companies until they found someone who would operate a flight. Even then, they clearly had no other options open as the "technical problem" with the flight and ensuing delay showed.
I will travel abroad in future with the kind of feeling you get when you've just gone for the cheapest insurance quote you could find - "FFS I hope I don't have to rely on this.". >:(
Kevin
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I think you'll find that most expats who live in 'iffy' parts of the world, are pretty hard nosed types who will have gone into the situation with their eyes wide open, and will either have an emergency cash stash and/or a damn good insurance policy! As many people have said they've taken the money and the chance, and as I said before there's no reason why they shouldn't be charged for their repatration!
This country spends billions propping up millions who have never paid into the system, both UK citizens and foriegners. We pay child benefit to foreigners whose kids don't even live in the UK, we pay winter fuel payments to pensioners living in hot climates, the list goes on.....
These expats arn't the sort who will come back demanding a council flat and benefits. They'll pick themselves up, dust themselves down and will go out and find another job. Some will head off abroad again and some won't, but IMO these are the sort of people that the UK should be helping out!!
I would have to totally agree with you on most of those points.
Believe it or not the one at the bottom as well.
If people would read my inital post then you will realise that I was more upset about the media attention that they recieved when they got home.
Why should they be portrayed as heros when they got themselves in trouble and had to be bailed out by the British taxpayer?
Nick retaliated with a broad statement which got my back up and I bit.
I never once wanted them to be left out to die in the desert but likewise why should it be taken for granted that my taxes will be used to get these people out of a country that they chose to live and work in, meanwhile im struggling to pay my mortgage, feed and cloth my children and put petrol in my car, but its still ok to tax my earnings, tax me for living in a house and then on top of all that, take a fifth of everything I spend as well?
What would happen if these sort of problems happened in a country like Pakistan or India? We would have to send the whole RAF out to collect our "British citizens" that "chose" to be there.
As mentioned before, why would you want to work in Libya? Maybe its because you work for an oil company, maybe you work for the British goverment. Something tells me that whoever is working out there is doing it, not for the love of the country, not to try and develop the third world, not out on an aid mission but because the financial rewards are great and they are greedy.
I agree with points that everyone has made in this thread but at the end of the day, we all make our own choices in life and in my opinion going to work in Libya is not what I would consider as "Safe" regardless of the recent problems that are goin on at the moment there.
And to go back to the OP's first comment about how the goverment has acted "Shamefully" I disagree. Libya's Goverment has acted shamefully for years, Israel's Goverment has acted shamefully for years Lebanons goverment has acted shamefully for years, as has Palestinian goverment.
These people cannot live side by side without killing each other because of their religious views.
So why is it right that Britons should go and live with them just because its "For the good of the country" and "Third world countries cannot develop without us"
Rubbish, people are greedy for oil and money and so blinkered by religion that they are prepared to kill or die for all of the above!
Globalization and religion will lead to WW3 and we are so deep in it that we will be at the centre of whatever happens, weather we like it or not.
So in the scheme of things dispute and unrest in a North African/Middle Eastern country is not news to me. Likewise getting a few plane loads of British citizens out of a country that has always been hostile to western cultures is not news to me either.
You watch once all this has blown over and these countries finally get new goverments, how many of these goverments are going ro be pro American? None, thats for sure.
I can see some of these weapons that America has sold Egypt, Jordan and the rest of its old Middle Eastern "allies" returning to haunt them one day.
you get my vote :y :y
I'm not sure that most of you are well aware of that, but an eastern or an african country where religious masses make up the most and they are very poor this place definitely must ring the alarm bells of danger in your brain.. They are dangerous for even the same religion.. let alone another religion..
human life is precious and I dont think no amount of money is valuable than your life that you cant spend after death.. :( Also what I dont understand is Britain is enough rich to give adequate life standards for your citizens , why risk your life in a hostile country ? (except if your not forced by the govt) :-/
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cem "Also what I dont understand is Britain is enough rich to give adequate life standards for your citizens , why risk your life in a hostile country "
The answer to that is a combination of several things.
1. Britain is a highly technological country with lots of specialist knowledge. e.g. the mini subs that were used to fix the Texas Gulf oil problem. I have a friend who works them. Other countries want that expertise.
2.Britain may be a rich country (certainly all the Spanish I know believe Britain to be mega rich compared to Spain for example) but the folk there are taxed to death and sadly have very poor state pensions(one of the worst in Europe) to look forward to. It is natural to try and improve ones situation for the future.
3. Britain is a leading culture in the must have with the media bombarding you day in and day out to upgrade to, buy this, have the other so people feel they have to "earn more" be it doing a second job or overtime or one overseas that pays a bit more.
the reality is Britain once was a rich country but a combination of living beyond our means, over extending ourselves in wars, banks gambling away the country means we are now just well off not "rich".
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Frankly I have been shocked to the core by the views of some folk on here about getting our nationals out. I can only put it down to insularity ( To spell that out pull up the drawbridges and man the battlements and keep Johnny Foreigner OUT of our precious little isle)
I can guarantee that no other country will have its forums full of folk saying we shouldn't have "rescued" our guys, let em rot, they are mercenaries so they can shoot their own way out, they chose that lifestyle etc etc. No what those countries have is a strong sense of National Pride and they just get on and do the right thing for their nationals. If the Israelis had had folk there they would have been the first to get them out. Sadly Britain just doesn't seem to have that sort of pride in itself.
As to the cost Ryanair can send a plane from Britain to Southern Spain and back and make a profit on £70 a head , so say £45,000 round trip. Absolute peanuts compared with the waste every day in government depts, food bought and binned because it has reached its sell by date.
As for my brother in law. He did his time on the oilfields, used the money to pay off a chunk of his mortgage and now works in Britain still paying tax and contributing to the economy. I can't see anything wrong with that.
yes there does seem to be great intolerance in this country for people who come from abroad and live and work in the UK, I've no problem with it.
Now lets say we were under a dictatorship here where ordinary human rights, education, free speech, travel etc were denied to us by our despot leader and yet he happily allowed foreigners in on massive wages allowing them the freedoms denied us, I'm guessing we'd rather wish they F'd off..........we dont even like people coming here doing the crap jobs if you read this forum ;D
these aren't great and noble pioneers in the main they're just exploiting one countries lack of resources (in this case tech and education) to enrich their lives - its a simple enough equation, i dont condemn these people but somedays you need to wake up and smell the coffee :o
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cem "Also what I dont understand is Britain is enough rich to give adequate life standards for your citizens , why risk your life in a hostile country "
The answer to that is a combination of several things.
1. Britain is a highly technological country with lots of specialist knowledge. e.g. the mini subs that were used to fix the Texas Gulf oil problem. I have a friend who works them. Other countries want that expertise.
2.Britain may be a rich country (certainly all the Spanish I know believe Britain to be mega rich compared to Spain for example) but the folk there are taxed to death and sadly have very poor state pensions(one of the worst in Europe) to look forward to. It is natural to try and improve ones situation for the future.
3. Britain is a leading culture in the must have with the media bombarding you day in and day out to upgrade to, buy this, have the other so people feel they have to "earn more" be it doing a second job or overtime or one overseas that pays a bit more.
the reality is Britain once was a rich country but a combination of living beyond our means, over extending ourselves in wars, banks gambling away the country means we are now just well off not "rich".
1. imo this expertise must be sold to who doesnt want to kill you ;D (and this is valid for my citizens also)
2.your country is expensive..so all your pensioners are invited to live here :)
3.definitely unnecessary..capitalist system pushes us to consume whatever we can buy.. :(
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Frankly I have been shocked to the core by the views of some folk on here about getting our nationals out.
Me, too. :y
Hence my comments. >:(
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Regardless of what you think about ex-pats I'd hope we live in a country with the resources to help all its' citizens if they get into difficulty in other parts of the world, regardless of their reason for being there.
What the last couple of days has highlighted is that, regardless of whether the will is there, the capability simply doesn't exist to evacuate a couple of hundred British citizens from a hotspot. :o
What a ridiculous spectacle it was that the government had to go cap in hand round the charter companies until they found someone who would operate a flight. Even then, they clearly had no other options open as the "technical problem" with the flight and ensuing delay showed.
I will travel abroad in future with the kind of feeling you get when you've just gone for the cheapest insurance quote you could find - "FFS I hope I don't have to rely on this.". >:(
Kevin
What the last couple of days has highlighted is that, regardless of whether the will is there, the capability simply doesn't exist to evacuate a couple of hundred British citizens from a hotspot. :o
Leaving aside the ethical arguments expressed up to this point the critical truth about that comment should ring loudly and clearly in everyone's ear.
This country is a shadow of its former self, a country where the capacity for government to act on behalf of its citizens in difficulty has diminished alarmingly to the stage where it seems that national business is being conducted on a make-do-and-mend basis in the hope that nothing occurs to bring us to the point of over-balance.
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Ok. I hav'nt read all the posts as i lack the patience but have had a quick scan & listened to both arguements on the radio news. One side says break 'em they knew the risks. The other side says we should stick by our own & bring them home & out of trouble. I have conflicting beliefs with both sides as they each have valid points.
All i can add is given the state of our economy it's no surprise some brits with the relative talents choose to work abroad. If there are no positions here & they have a family/mortgage to provide for & no positions are available here what else can they do but work elsewhere? They should be shuttled out but should pay for it as they.ve been making the money.
Sorry to all you politics fans but if our country can't provide work when others can then we only have our own governments to blame for the mess we're in & the further messes they lead to. Politics is a farce & to blame for the difference between export/import.
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Ok. I hav'nt read all the posts as i lack the patience but have had a quick scan & listened to both arguements on the radio news. One side says break 'em they knew the risks. The other side says we should stick by our own & bring them home & out of trouble. I have conflicting beliefs with both sides as they each have valid points.
All i can add is given the state of our economy it's no surprise some brits with the relative talents choose to work abroad. If there are no positions here & they have a family/mortgage to provide for & no positions are available here what else can they do but work elsewhere? They should be shuttled out but should pay for it as they.ve been making the money.
Sorry to all you politics fans but if our country can't provide work when others can then we only have our own governments to blame for the mess we're in & the further messes they lead to. Politics is a farce & to blame for the difference between export/import.
Well I cannot fault you on that point of view Guy :y :y
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Ok. I hav'nt read all the posts as i lack the patience but have had a quick scan & listened to both arguements on the radio news. One side says break 'em they knew the risks. The other side says we should stick by our own & bring them home & out of trouble. I have conflicting beliefs with both sides as they each have valid points.
All i can add is given the state of our economy it's no surprise some brits with the relative talents choose to work abroad. If there are no positions here & they have a family/mortgage to provide for & no positions are available here what else can they do but work elsewhere? They should be shuttled out but should pay for it as they.ve been making the money.
Sorry to all you politics fans but if our country can't provide work when others can then we only have our own governments to blame for the mess we're in & the further messes they lead to. Politics is a farce & to blame for the difference between export/import.
Well I cannot fault you on that point of view Guy :y :y
Same here :y
Also I just want to add that I would love to have the skills to be able to work abroad and earn a fortune. I don't think that I could ever work somewhere like Libya tho, regardless of pay.
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Saw on the news tonight that HMS Cumberland has taken on 200 passengers and is steaming for Malta, where they will disembark. HMS Cumberland will then steam to Great Britain to be decommissioned..... Makes you proud, dosn't it? :-[ :-[ :-[
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Saw on the news tonight that HMS Cumberland has taken on 200 passengers and is steaming for Malta, where they will disembark. HMS Cumberland will then steam to Great Britain to be decommissioned..... Makes you proud, dosn't it? :-[ :-[ :-[
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I felt the same, and we are losing our planes as well, and an aircraft carrier, as I said on another thread, I think we need to look at being more self sufficient, certainly not relying on other Countries, particularly France, for our defence......Worried, yes...... :( :( :(