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Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Nickbat on 28 February 2011, 12:11:12

Title: Wind power scam
Post by: Nickbat on 28 February 2011, 12:11:12
£250 billion pounds....for what?

Yet, they a happily scrap Coastguard services, RAF equipment and personnel, plus countless other things.

Someone's making an awful lot of money from this (mainly non-UK companies). And each of us is paying. A truly remarkable scam.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1361316/250bn-wind-power-industry-greatest-scam-age.html


 >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 28 February 2011, 12:34:57
I thought you'd decided not to post on climate change matters again Nick?..... :-X :-X

Interesting article nonetheless..... :y
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: bluey on 28 February 2011, 12:42:11
I must admit the background story behind wind turbines seems to get more and more disturbing.  I used to think they were quite graceful things but the sheer amount of them, their cost and the impact they have en mass in some of this country's most beautiful settings, does make me wonder why we are so hell bent on having them.
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: Nickbat on 28 February 2011, 12:50:08
Quote
I thought you'd decided not to post on climate change matters again Nick?..... :-X :-X

Interesting article nonetheless..... :y


Couldn't resist it. :-X

Plus, I was egged on by another member.  ;) ;)
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 28 February 2011, 12:54:45
Lol, these renewables efforts always make me laugh!

Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: TheBoy on 28 February 2011, 12:57:25
Could they strap a fan to Jimbob's backside. Thats a project that would work due to a constant breeze....
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: Varche on 28 February 2011, 13:03:18
Well that is an eye opener. The sums involved are collossol.

I make no pretence of always having being keen on renewable power (energy for virtually free has a nice ring to it) however those figures look to be the economics of the madhouse. Despite all , I still think Britain can only secure its power future by building nuclear power stations with all their horrible not yet solved waste processing issues. The power stations need to be built with government money and kept in public ownership only. That will be a huge challenge.

Thanks for posting that link Nick. :y
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 28 February 2011, 13:15:16
Quote
£250 billion pounds....for what?

Yet, they a happily scrap Coastguard services, RAF equipment and personnel, plus countless other things.

Someone's making an awful lot of money from this (mainly non-UK companies). And each of us is paying. A truly remarkable scam.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1361316/250bn-wind-power-industry-greatest-scam-age.html


 >:( >:( >:(

Yes, while it's sensible to investigate better, more sustainable, less polluting ways to generate energy, wind power on the scale envisaged is ballicks.

As far as I see it this is akin to pissing into the wind - the result will be just as undesirably obvious with - in this case -  each and every one of us (who actually pays tax and settle their energy accounts from earned funds/pensions) being obliged to pay dearly for this misguided attempt to remain within strict carbon emissions limits imposed by the EU.
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: Kevin Wood on 28 February 2011, 13:20:27
Quote
Could they strap a fan to Jimbob's backside. Thats a project that would work due to a constant breeze....

Couldn't they do some sort of combined cycle system where the heat is recovered first, then the turbine extracts energy from the blast before the gas is burnt in a furnace? ;)

Kevin
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 28 February 2011, 13:23:00
Quote
Well that is an eye opener. The sums involved are collossol.

I make no pretence of always having being keen on renewable power (energy for virtually free has a nice ring to it) however those figures look to be the economics of the madhouse. Despite all , I still think Britain can only secure its power future by building nuclear power stations with all their horrible not yet solved waste processing issues. The power stations need to be built with government money and kept in public ownership only. That will be a huge challenge.

Thanks for posting that link Nick. :y

Absolutely, we need enough 24/7 generating capability to cover the base load plus margin to cover a percentage of the peeks.

For renewables to be even close to worth while we would have to invest heavily in energy storage solutions such as battery (dont even go there!) and pumped storage......and thats something nobody ever considers.


Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: albitz on 28 February 2011, 13:24:16
I have read material which suggests the situation could be even worse than Booker suggests.
When there is no wind to power the turbines they cant be left stood still for long periods.The weight of the blades hanging on the shaft can bend the shaft, therefore they must be kept turning. This is acheived by powering the motors from the National grid. It is thought that the lubrication systems for the huge bearings are also electrically powered - from where ?
It is actually possible that many of these contraptions take more juice out of the grid than they put into it. It seems impossible to find out as the companies who make them refuse to release any information or data to dispel or confirm the rumours. As they are foreign companies, presumably the info cannot be forced out of them under the FOI act ?
It isnt possible to have a sane energy policy, as the energy secretary (Huhne) is a card carrying mentalist.Where is it all going to end. ? :-/
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: Varche on 28 February 2011, 13:24:27
Quote
Quote
£250 billion pounds....for what?

Yet, they a happily scrap Coastguard services, RAF equipment and personnel, plus countless other things.

Someone's making an awful lot of money from this (mainly non-UK companies). And each of us is paying. A truly remarkable scam.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1361316/250bn-wind-power-industry-greatest-scam-age.html


 >:( >:( >:(

Yes, while it's sensible to investigate better, more sustainable, less polluting ways to generate energy, wind power on the scale envisaged is ballicks.

As far as I see it this is akin to pissing into the wind - the result will be just as undesirably obvious with each and every one of us (who actually pay tax and settle their energy accounts from earned funds) being obliged to pay dearly for this misguided attempt to remain within strict carbon emissions limits imposed by the EU.

Z you make it sound like one day the EU leader stood on top of the Brussels building and out of the blue told all the Eu countries you will do renewables!

What actually happened was all the Eu countries took part in discussions about what should happen. Then the proposals were tabled for countries to consider then as it was agreed it became policy. Our government of the day rubber stamped it. (rightly or wrongly)
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: Nickbat on 28 February 2011, 13:30:56
Quote
Quote
Quote
£250 billion pounds....for what?

Yet, they a happily scrap Coastguard services, RAF equipment and personnel, plus countless other things.

Someone's making an awful lot of money from this (mainly non-UK companies). And each of us is paying. A truly remarkable scam.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1361316/250bn-wind-power-industry-greatest-scam-age.html


 >:( >:( >:(

Yes, while it's sensible to investigate better, more sustainable, less polluting ways to generate energy, wind power on the scale envisaged is ballicks.

As far as I see it this is akin to pissing into the wind - the result will be just as undesirably obvious with each and every one of us (who actually pay tax and settle their energy accounts from earned funds) being obliged to pay dearly for this misguided attempt to remain within strict carbon emissions limits imposed by the EU.

Z you make it sound like one day the EU leader stood on top of the Brussels building and out of the blue told all the Eu countries you will do renewables!

What actually happened was all the Eu countries took part in discussions about what should happen. Then the proposals were tabled for countries to consider then as it was agreed it became policy. Our government of the day rubber stamped it. (rightly or wrongly)

Yes, but many countries (e.g. Holland, Germany, Denmark) have abandoned the idea of subsidising these monsters, and without subsidies they would not be built. It's only our bunch that still thinks its a good idea.  ::) ::)
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 28 February 2011, 13:32:00
Quote
I have read material which suggests the situation could be even worse than Hitchens suggests - that doesnt happen very often. ::)
When there is no wind to power the turbines they cant be left stood still for long periods.The weight of the blades hanging on the shaft can bend the shaft, therefore they must be kept turning. This is acheived by powering the motors from the National grid. It is thought that the lubrication systems for the huge bearings are also electrically powered - from where ?
It is actually possible that many of these contraptions take more juice out of the grid than they put into it. It seems impossible to find out as the companies who make them refuse to release any information or data to dispel or confirm the rumours. As they are foreign companies, presumably the info cannot be forced out of them under the FOI act ?
It isnt possible to have a sane energy policy, as the energy secretary (Huhne) is a card carrying mentalist.Where is it all going to end. ? :-/

I have just consulted our internal expert and that is a load of old cobblers.

They can sit dormant for extended periods and require no (or very little in order to support the control systems) power....and as they are not turning, no oil is required to be pumped.

The only issue they have with being stationary is that it requires a wind level which is higher than the minimum in order to get them moving again and overcome the inertia issues.
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: Nickbat on 28 February 2011, 13:32:41
Quote
Quote
Could they strap a fan to Jimbob's backside. Thats a project that would work due to a constant breeze....

Couldn't they do some sort of combined cycle system where the heat is recovered first, then the turbine extracts energy from the blast before the gas is burnt in a furnace? ;)

Kevin

There is a similar system already in place, Kevin. It's known as the Recoverable Intake of Noxious Gases Preceding Ignition of Excess Colossal Exhaust.
 ;)
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 28 February 2011, 13:33:08
Quote

Z you make it sound like one day the EU leader stood on top of the Brussels building and out of the blue told all the Eu countries you will do renewables!

What actually happened was all the Eu countries took part in discussions about what should happen. Then the proposals were tabled for countries to consider then as it was agreed it became policy. Our government of the day rubber stamped it. (rightly or wrongly)

Oh I agree completely V - it's down to Westminster, the last government and now this one cannot duck the issue.

Rather than being led by the nose (or wallet/personal opportunity in many cases) perhaps they should have had the balls and good sense to think clearly about the consequences to this country of these grand schemes before signing up to them.
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 28 February 2011, 13:35:18
Quote
Quote
Quote
Could they strap a fan to Jimbob's backside. Thats a project that would work due to a constant breeze....

Couldn't they do some sort of combined cycle system where the heat is recovered first, then the turbine extracts energy from the blast before the gas is burnt in a furnace? ;)

Kevin

There is a similar system already in place, Kevin. It's known as the Recoverable Intake of Noxious Gases Preceding Ignition of Excess Colossal Exhaust.
 ;)

Splendid. :y
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: Kevin Wood on 28 February 2011, 13:35:27
I have a friend who works for National Grid balancing supply and demand so he sees the real, unadulterated figures, in real time.

He reckons wind power contributes the root of break all. It just results in fossil fuelled resources operating less efficiently.

Kevin
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: Jimbob on 28 February 2011, 13:35:34
Quote
Quote
Quote
Could they strap a fan to Jimbob's backside. Thats a project that would work due to a constant breeze....

Couldn't they do some sort of combined cycle system where the heat is recovered first, then the turbine extracts energy from the blast before the gas is burnt in a furnace? ;)

Kevin

There is a similar system already in place, Kevin. It's known as the Recoverable Intake of Noxious Gases Preceding Ignition of Excess Colossal Exhaust.
 ;)


Tremendous  :y  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: Nickbat on 28 February 2011, 13:39:01
Quote
Quote
I have read material which suggests the situation could be even worse than Hitchens suggests - that doesnt happen very often. ::)
When there is no wind to power the turbines they cant be left stood still for long periods.The weight of the blades hanging on the shaft can bend the shaft, therefore they must be kept turning. This is acheived by powering the motors from the National grid. It is thought that the lubrication systems for the huge bearings are also electrically powered - from where ?
It is actually possible that many of these contraptions take more juice out of the grid than they put into it. It seems impossible to find out as the companies who make them refuse to release any information or data to dispel or confirm the rumours. As they are foreign companies, presumably the info cannot be forced out of them under the FOI act ?
It isnt possible to have a sane energy policy, as the energy secretary (Huhne) is a card carrying mentalist.Where is it all going to end. ? :-/

I have just consulted our internal expert and that is a load of old cobblers.

They can sit dormant for extended periods and require no (or very little in order to support the control systems) power....and as they are not turning, no oil is required to be pumped.

The only issue they have with being stationary is that it requires a wind level which is higher than the minimum in order to get them moving again and overcome the inertia issues.

I believe they still consume far more grid juice than the wind companies let on.  This link provides some technical background:
http://www.aweo.org/windconsumption.html
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: TheBoy on 28 February 2011, 13:40:03
Quote
I have a friend who works for National Grid balancing supply and demand so he sees the real, unadulterated figures, in real time.

He reckons wind power contributes the root of break all. It just results in fossil fuelled resources operating less efficiently.
Kevin
But as that is an un-TreeHuggingHippy viewpoint, doesn't have the wankword Carbon Reduction, and is true, I suppose his view will be entirely ignore by those that don't know/understand, but do make the decisions.

kanWers.
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: bluey on 28 February 2011, 13:54:30
Ages ago I had this idea of having small water wheels along rivers like the Severn that could provide multiple amounts of small energy pulses to the grid.  They could be low maintenance, standalone installations upriver in faster flowing areas that would spin almost continuously.  The power contribution they would make would obviously be very low compared to Hinkley though.

Actually, what if it were possible for local communities to generate power on a sell basis to the grid on a private-social enterprise basis so that profit made would be pumped back into projects that helped the area? You could have power generation from recycling for example that could make money for redevelopment.  So people have an incentive to be more proactive in recycling as they can see the end result in their effort. 

The other area I always wondered about was whether the gases escaping from sewage treatment farms and landfill sites was sufficient to be trapped and burned as part of a power generation system, or if the dehydrated solids from sewage also might be combustible.  Power from your poo!  ;D
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: Gaffers on 28 February 2011, 14:01:10
Quote
Quote
Quote
I have read material which suggests the situation could be even worse than Hitchens suggests - that doesnt happen very often. ::)
When there is no wind to power the turbines they cant be left stood still for long periods.The weight of the blades hanging on the shaft can bend the shaft, therefore they must be kept turning. This is acheived by powering the motors from the National grid. It is thought that the lubrication systems for the huge bearings are also electrically powered - from where ?
It is actually possible that many of these contraptions take more juice out of the grid than they put into it. It seems impossible to find out as the companies who make them refuse to release any information or data to dispel or confirm the rumours. As they are foreign companies, presumably the info cannot be forced out of them under the FOI act ?
It isnt possible to have a sane energy policy, as the energy secretary (Huhne) is a card carrying mentalist.Where is it all going to end. ? :-/

I have just consulted our internal expert and that is a load of old cobblers.

They can sit dormant for extended periods and require no (or very little in order to support the control systems) power....and as they are not turning, no oil is required to be pumped.

The only issue they have with being stationary is that it requires a wind level which is higher than the minimum in order to get them moving again and overcome the inertia issues.

I believe they still consume far more grid juice than the wind companies let on.  This link provides some technical background:
http://www.aweo.org/windconsumption.html

I beleive there is an issue when it is very cold as turbines require to be heated slightly in order to prevent frost damage.  So on a calm winters day with no wind the turbines will actually consume power not provide it.

There is a lot of noise about this on yachting forums, esp with the new one proposed off of the Isle of Wight.  They have decided to install farms at a number of locations which directly interfere with recreational and commercial marine traffic.  In this busy area with string tides, options in the event of an emergency are reduced as a result of this farm. >:(
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: albitz on 28 February 2011, 14:03:34
Quote
Quote
I have read material which suggests the situation could be even worse than Hitchens suggests - that doesnt happen very often. ::)
When there is no wind to power the turbines they cant be left stood still for long periods.The weight of the blades hanging on the shaft can bend the shaft, therefore they must be kept turning. This is acheived by powering the motors from the National grid. It is thought that the lubrication systems for the huge bearings are also electrically powered - from where ?
It is actually possible that many of these contraptions take more juice out of the grid than they put into it. It seems impossible to find out as the companies who make them refuse to release any information or data to dispel or confirm the rumours. As they are foreign companies, presumably the info cannot be forced out of them under the FOI act ?
It isnt possible to have a sane energy policy, as the energy secretary (Huhne) is a card carrying mentalist.Where is it all going to end. ? :-/

I have just consulted our internal expert and that is a load of old cobblers.

They can sit dormant for extended periods and require no (or very little in order to support the control systems) power....and as they are not turning, no oil is required to be pumped.

The only issue they have with being stationary is that it requires a wind level which is higher than the minimum in order to get them moving again and overcome the inertia issues.
I wouldnt claim to have any expertise on the subject Mark, so am happy to accept yours. :y

Nick that link you provided is very similar to the article I was referring to. :y
I referred to Hitchens in my original post. wrong glasses + Mail + Peter = Hitchens. :-[ ::) ;D
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 28 February 2011, 14:07:37
Quote
Ages ago I had this idea of having small water wheels along rivers like the Severn that could provide multiple amounts of small energy pulses to the grid.  They could be low maintenance, standalone installations upriver in faster flowing areas that would spin almost continuously.  The power contribution they would make would obviously be very low compared to Hinkley though.

Actually, what if it were possible for local communities to generate power on a sell basis to the grid on a private-social enterprise basis so that profit made would be pumped back into projects that helped the area? You could have power generation from recycling for example that could make money for redevelopment.  So people have an incentive to be more proactive in recycling as they can see the end result in their effort. 

The other area I always wondered about was whether the gases escaping from sewage treatment farms and landfill sites was sufficient to be trapped and burned as part of a power generation system, or if the dehydrated solids from sewage also might be combustible.  Power from your poo!  ;D

We did a project called water wing which did just that

http://www.waterwingpower.com/wip4/
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: bluey on 28 February 2011, 14:33:49
That looks a lot more advanced and cleverer than my idea of plonking a 4' vertical paddle wheel on a river bank!  ;)
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 28 February 2011, 14:37:52
Quote
That looks a lot more advanced and cleverer than my idea of plonking a 4' vertical paddle wheel on a river bank!  ;)

Yep, there is a basic control setup which can vary the pitch of the blades to extract max energy.

It worked very well (and was quite cheap to)
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: bigegg on 28 February 2011, 14:44:56
Quote
I always wondered about was whether the gases escaping from sewage treatment farms and landfill sites was sufficient to be trapped and burned as part of a power generation system, or if the dehydrated solids from sewage also might be combustible.  Power from your poo!  ;D

I used to work on a landfill site at Swillington, near Leeds.
There were, I think 5 or 6, small generating stations powered from the methane which supplied power to the National Grid.
I know they were nice and warm in the middle of winter - ideal for a quick kip.

Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: Varche on 28 February 2011, 14:52:09
After hydro electric power which has got to be the best "renewable power source" , I believe that the sea ofers the next best source - certainly for Britain.

We could have made a global killing if we had directed the likes of Dyson etc etc on the subject. In fact if someone wanted to be really adventurous the Pacific is higher than the Atlantic in Central America. A HEP station using that head of water in Panama City would be something else :y
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 28 February 2011, 15:06:55
Quote
After hydro electric power which has got to be the best "renewable power source" , I believe that the sea ofers the next best source - certainly for Britain.

We could have made a global killing if we had directed the likes of Dyson etc etc on the subject. In fact if someone wanted to be really adventurous the Pacific is higher than the Atlantic in Central America. A HEP station using that head of water in Panama City would be something else :y

Lol, why do I get visions of bright colours, poor design and short life....
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: albitz on 28 February 2011, 15:11:50
Purple/yellow funky power stations. :D ;D
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: Psychoca on 28 February 2011, 17:01:26
Never had a problem with my Dysons...  I do accept they have some major design flaws though...

Back on subject...

Wind Turbines are nasty looking blots on the landscape that should never be...  They are given over inflated statistics with regard to what power they can turn out and cause both psychological and physical issues to people who live in the proximity of the turbines...

For the country to gain a third of its power from renewable sources is laughable.  The only way they will get close to this is by looking at hydroelectric which is by far the most effective form of electrical generation...  Mills weren't built by a river purely for the transport links and the power generated by the wheels was immense...  It would be interesting to know how much electrical power could be generated by a small water wheel, let alone a big wheel...
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: Nickbat on 03 March 2011, 09:33:48
The days of permanently available electricity may be coming to an end.

Families would have to get used to using power only when it was available, rather than constantly.


Steve Holliday, Chief Executive of the National Grid.

I agree with the Bishop's headline: "The third-world ambition of the UK"


http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2011/3/3/the-third-world-ambition-of-the-uk.html

UNBELIEVABLE.  :o :o :o

We'll be the laughing stock of the world. >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: albitz on 03 March 2011, 18:12:56
It is truely shocking where this utter madness is leading us to.
But just maybe things will have to get that bad in order to waken up the general populace as to what is going on.
They may not care too much now, but if the power goes off at the beginning of the Xfactor or eastwhingers it just might provoke a reaction.
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: hercules on 03 March 2011, 19:06:28
Quote
Could they strap a fan to Jimbob's backside. Thats a project that would work due to a constant breeze....
i believe they could but the cost of changing the bio obnoxious triple titanium yielded co-flux onated unigrafted granulated heat filters(botty cough) for short is just too expensive,even thought the power he would produce would out weigh 10 turbines :y
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: Mysteryman on 03 March 2011, 19:10:21
Quote
Quote
Could they strap a fan to Jimbob's backside. Thats a project that would work due to a constant breeze....
i believe they could but the cost of changing the bio obnoxious triple titanium yielded co-flux onated unigrafted granulated heat filters(botty cough) for short is just too expensive,even thought the power he would produce would out weigh 10 turbines :y

How long did that take you Daz? ;D
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: hercules on 03 March 2011, 19:20:02
Quote
Quote
Quote
Could they strap a fan to Jimbob's backside. Thats a project that would work due to a constant breeze....
i believe they could but the cost of changing the bio obnoxious triple titanium yielded co-flux onated unigrafted granulated heat filters(botty cough) for short is just too expensive,even thought the power he would produce would out weigh 10 turbines :y

How long did that take you Daz? ;D
i just copied it from the nasa website,its fact you know
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: Mysteryman on 03 March 2011, 19:21:07
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Could they strap a fan to Jimbob's backside. Thats a project that would work due to a constant breeze....
i believe they could but the cost of changing the bio obnoxious triple titanium yielded co-flux onated unigrafted granulated heat filters(botty cough) for short is just too expensive,even thought the power he would produce would out weigh 10 turbines :y

How long did that take you Daz? ;D
i just copied it from the nasa website,its fact you know


Never doubted it for a minute, mate. ::)
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: Tony H on 03 March 2011, 19:28:56
The only power that can be truly relied on in nature to provide power is the tide. Rivers run dry, winds don't blow but the tide ebbs and flows twice a day without fail. When you consider the potential of the power that could be generated using barrages in areas like Morcambe Bay, the Severn and Mersey estuaries to name but a few the potential is collossal. I realise that these developments could have a huge impact on the environment especially the bird population but in the grand sceme of things this sort of power generation could be the lesser of two evils. If that is climate change is man made, which I think is highly debatable, but thats another story.
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: hercules on 03 March 2011, 19:35:21
Quote
The only power that can be truly relied on in nature to provide power is the tide. Rivers run dry, winds don't blow but the tide ebbs and flows twice a day without fail. When you consider the potential of the power that could be generated using barrages in areas like Morcambe Bay, the Severn and Mersey estuaries to name but a few the potential is collossal. I realise that these developments could have a huge impact on the environment especially the bird population but in the grand sceme of things this sort of power generation could be the lesser of two evils. If that is climate change is man made, which I think is highly debatable, but thats another story.
ive seen a prog where they had like a big sausage that generates power when it bobs up an down and there was a wind turbine but upside down and submerged in the middle of an estuary :y
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: albitz on 03 March 2011, 19:38:25
Quote
Quote
The only power that can be truly relied on in nature to provide power is the tide. Rivers run dry, winds don't blow but the tide ebbs and flows twice a day without fail. When you consider the potential of the power that could be generated using barrages in areas like Morcambe Bay, the Severn and Mersey estuaries to name but a few the potential is collossal. I realise that these developments could have a huge impact on the environment especially the bird population but in the grand sceme of things this sort of power generation could be the lesser of two evils. If that is climate change is man made, which I think is highly debatable, but thats another story.
ive seen a prog where they had like a big sausage that generates power when it bobs up an down and there was a wind turbine but upside down and submerged in the middle of an estuary :y

Steady - Pinky and the Groomer will be getting all excited reading that kind of stuff. ::) :D ;D
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: miked on 04 March 2011, 22:15:27
Quote
Quote
I have read material which suggests the situation could be even worse than Hitchens suggests - that doesnt happen very often. ::)
When there is no wind to power the turbines they cant be left stood still for long periods.The weight of the blades hanging on the shaft can bend the shaft, therefore they must be kept turning. This is acheived by powering the motors from the National grid. It is thought that the lubrication systems for the huge bearings are also electrically powered - from where ?
It is actually possible that many of these contraptions take more juice out of the grid than they put into it. It seems impossible to find out as the companies who make them refuse to release any information or data to dispel or confirm the rumours. As they are foreign companies, presumably the info cannot be forced out of them under the FOI act ?
It isnt possible to have a sane energy policy, as the energy secretary (Huhne) is a card carrying mentalist.Where is it all going to end. ? :-/

I have just consulted our internal expert and that is a load of old cobblers.

They can sit dormant for extended periods and require no (or very little in order to support the control systems) power....and as they are not turning, no oil is required to be pumped.

The only issue they have with being stationary is that it requires a wind level which is higher than the minimum in order to get them moving again and overcome the inertia issues.
The largest off-shaw turbines need to be continually turned to prevent damage to their bearings.
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: miked on 04 March 2011, 22:18:33
http://uk.reuters.com/news/video/story?videoId=191942115&videoChannel=82
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: albitz on 04 March 2011, 22:23:24
Quote
Quote
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I have read material which suggests the situation could be even worse than Hitchens suggests - that doesnt happen very often. ::)
When there is no wind to power the turbines they cant be left stood still for long periods.The weight of the blades hanging on the shaft can bend the shaft, therefore they must be kept turning. This is acheived by powering the motors from the National grid. It is thought that the lubrication systems for the huge bearings are also electrically powered - from where ?
It is actually possible that many of these contraptions take more juice out of the grid than they put into it. It seems impossible to find out as the companies who make them refuse to release any information or data to dispel or confirm the rumours. As they are foreign companies, presumably the info cannot be forced out of them under the FOI act ?
It isnt possible to have a sane energy policy, as the energy secretary (Huhne) is a card carrying mentalist.Where is it all going to end. ? :-/

I have just consulted our internal expert and that is a load of old cobblers.

They can sit dormant for extended periods and require no (or very little in order to support the control systems) power....and as they are not turning, no oil is required to be pumped.

The only issue they have with being stationary is that it requires a wind level which is higher than the minimum in order to get them moving again and overcome the inertia issues.
The largest off-shaw turbines need to be continually turned to prevent damage to their bearings.

Thankyou. :y
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 04 March 2011, 22:27:11
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I have read material which suggests the situation could be even worse than Hitchens suggests - that doesnt happen very often. ::)
When there is no wind to power the turbines they cant be left stood still for long periods.The weight of the blades hanging on the shaft can bend the shaft, therefore they must be kept turning. This is acheived by powering the motors from the National grid. It is thought that the lubrication systems for the huge bearings are also electrically powered - from where ?
It is actually possible that many of these contraptions take more juice out of the grid than they put into it. It seems impossible to find out as the companies who make them refuse to release any information or data to dispel or confirm the rumours. As they are foreign companies, presumably the info cannot be forced out of them under the FOI act ?
It isnt possible to have a sane energy policy, as the energy secretary (Huhne) is a card carrying mentalist.Where is it all going to end. ? :-/

I have just consulted our internal expert and that is a load of old cobblers.

They can sit dormant for extended periods and require no (or very little in order to support the control systems) power....and as they are not turning, no oil is required to be pumped.

The only issue they have with being stationary is that it requires a wind level which is higher than the minimum in order to get them moving again and overcome the inertia issues.
The largest off-shaw turbines need to be continually turned to prevent damage to their bearings.

Not according to one of my buisness partners.....who is a designer of the biggest turbines out there.

They only rotate thiers during low winds to ensure they can respond faster to varying wind conditions  :y (new job has a lot of contact with this industry and I am running a wave power research project)  :y
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 04 March 2011, 22:29:32
I should add that the company I deal with is Enercon
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: miked on 04 March 2011, 22:59:28
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They only rotate thiers during low winds to ensure they can respond faster to varying wind conditions  :y (new job has a lot of contact with this industry and I am running a wave power research project)  :y
NGC have reduced their predicted load factor from wind from 30 to 25%
The latest off-shaw turbines can feather their blades with a view to providing some (extremely limited) frequency response.

This December, record low temperatures were seen and at the same time, the wind.... where were you? (Something like 36000MWe from coal, 20MWe wind)
Title: Re: Wind power scam
Post by: Nickbat on 04 March 2011, 23:08:37
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They only rotate thiers during low winds to ensure they can respond faster to varying wind conditions  :y (new job has a lot of contact with this industry and I am running a wave power research project)  :y
NGC have reduced their predicted load factor from wind from 30 to 25%
The latest off-shaw turbines can feather their blades with a view to providing some (extremely limited) frequency response.

This December, record low temperatures were seen and at the same time, the wind.... where were you? (Something like 36000MWe from coal, 20MWe wind)

Says it all, Mike. Thanks for posting.  :y ;)