Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: albitz on 17 March 2011, 23:23:26
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http://news.aol.co.uk/uk-news/story/un-approves-no-fly-zone-over-libya/1664532/
If we are going to be involved in enforcing this "No fly zone" operation, do we have the aircraft to do the job ?
Should we be doing the job ?
David Davis made the point today that the Strategic defence review should be reversed immediately. It reccomended scrapping carriers and the planes which launch from them as there was no realistic reason to suggest they would be needed in the foreseeable future.
Looks like it might be proved wrong almost before the ink is dry on the paper. ::)
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Yet again we (in the West) insist in interfering in the affairs of countries where the normally accepted rule of conduct is tenuous to say the least.
This will be another almighty cluster opps to the mad house. [smiley=thumbdown.gif]
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http://news.aol.co.uk/uk-news/story/un-approves-no-fly-zone-over-libya/1664532/
If we are going to be involved in enforcing this "No fly zone" operation, do we have the aircraft to do the job ?
Should we be doing the job ?
David Davis made the point today that the Strategic defence review should be reversed immediately. It reccomended scrapping carriers and the planes which launch from them as there was no realistic reason to suggest they would be needed in the foreseeable future.
Looks like it might be proved wrong almost before the ink is dry on the paper. ::)
The Conservatives should have chosen David Davis over Cameron when they had the chance. ;)
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If they had have done Nick, I would be voting for them. I have a lot of respect for him, but they had to go and choose the "heir to Blair". Blair is now ancient history whom no-one wants to remember, and Cameron looks more each day like a boy doing a mans job.
They definitely mad a big mistake, and could well pay for it next time at the polls.
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If they had have done Nick, I would be voting for them. I have a lot of respect for him, but they had to go and choose the 2heir to Blair. Blair is now ancient history whom no-one wants to remember, and Cameron looks more each day like a boy doing a mans job.
They definitely mad a big mistake, and could well pay for it next time at the polls.
Me, too, Albs. Cameron is a dangerous and foolish man, IMHO. :(
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Yet again we (in the West) insist in interfering in the affairs of countries where the normally accepted rule of conduct is tenuous to say the least.
This will be another almighty cluster blank to the mad house. [smiley=thumbdown.gif]
I would tend to agree Z, but the one big worry is that several of these uprisings are Shia muslims(majorities) against Sunni,s(inherited monarchies) and if they are successful, they could end up with the Iranian version of Shi,ite Muslim Democracy, with Iran - in the longer term - building itself an empire in the middle east. That doesnt bear thinking about from a world peace viewpoint imo.
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Yet again we (in the West) insist in interfering in the affairs of countries where the normally accepted rule of conduct is tenuous to say the least.
This will be another almighty cluster blank to the mad house. [smiley=thumbdown.gif]
I would tend to agree Z, but the one big worry is that several of these uprisings are Shia muslims(majorities) against Sunni,s(inherited monarchies) and if they are successful, they could end up with the Iranian version of Shi,ite Muslim Democracy, with Iran - in the longer term - building itself an empire in the middle east. That doesnt bear thinking about from a world peace viewpoint imo.
Yes a very fluid situation is developing in the region.
Our best hope (for our own stability) was that the existing arrangements held - howsoever iniquitous for the people in the countries concerned.
Now that many people in those countries are challenging the status quo within their respective nations, the resultant instability will spell trouble for us in the short to medium term - just at a time we don't need it.
Do we have the resources, the will or the determination to get bogged down in yet another sandy country?
History is being ignored yet again.
I spoke against the invasion of Iraq and the later invasion of Afghanistan and I must speak against the proposed action against Libya with all the mission creep that it threatens.
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No we havant got the planes to enforce this No fly zone, remember he has just scrapped the harriers and Nimrod long range radar planes, along with 3 aircraft carriers too. Cameron is out of his depth in every way.
HOME AND ABROAD. >:(
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Agreed - although I cant imagine it possible that this govt. could ever end up doing more harm to this country than the previous one did. It was the worst excuse for a govt. in my lifetime.
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Agreed - although I cant imagine it possible that this govt. could ever end up doing more harm to this country than the previous one did. It was the worst excuse for a govt. in my lifetime.
They are trying there best...... ::) ::) ::)
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Yet again we (in the West) insist in interfering in the affairs of countries where the normally accepted rule of conduct is tenuous to say the least.
This will be another almighty cluster blank to the mad house. [smiley=thumbdown.gif]
I would tend to agree Z, but the one big worry is that several of these uprisings are Shia muslims(majorities) against Sunni,s(inherited monarchies) and if they are successful, they could end up with the Iranian version of Shi,ite Muslim Democracy, with Iran - in the longer term - building itself an empire in the middle east. That doesnt bear thinking about from a world peace viewpoint imo.
Yes a very fluid situation is developing in the region.
Our best hope (for our own stability) was that the existing arrangements held - howsoever iniquitous for the people in the countries concerned.
Now that many people in those countries are challenging the status quo within their respective nations, the resultant instability will spell trouble for us in the short to medium term - just at a time we don't need it.
Do we have the resources, the will or the determination to get bogged down in yet another sandy country?
History is being ignored yet again.
I spoke against the invasion of Iraq and the later invasion of Afghanistan and I must speak against the proposed action against Libya with all the mission creep that it threatens.
And if Gadaffi retakes Benghazi before the planes arrive there, then it is a situation of either beating a quick (but humiliating) retreat, or engaging in (another) regime change operation, and all that is implied in that scenario - Us and others helping to manage the country and prop up his successors for years to come. :( ::)
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Agreed - although I cant imagine it possible that this govt. could ever end up doing more harm to this country than the previous one did. It was the worst excuse for a govt. in my lifetime.
They are trying there best...... ::) ::) ::)
They havent yet begun to scratch the surface in comparison to what Bliar and Brown did Vamps. But people have short memories, and their honeymoon period is just about over imo
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hypothetical of course, but if the west was not so reliant on oil and its leaders therefore inbed with the exessively rich minority who run/ran these countries ,makes you wonder what our stance would be towards the current middle east crisis. Previous western imperialistic interference in the area has much to answer for too. My guess is that if it wasnt for the oil we'd pay as much attention to the area as we do the Congo. Bottom line is its about money not democracy or religion so lets not forget who gave/traded the technology and weapons tothem that we worry about so much now nor who made the area as powerful/influential as it is. Are we now reaping what the west itself has sown? Worrying times indeed and agree with others that cant see Cameron having the qualities we need to deal with the situation
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hypothetical of course, but if the west was not so reliant on oil and its leaders therefore inbed with the exessively rich minority who run/ran these countries ,makes you wonder what our stance would be towards the current middle east crisis. Previous western imperialistic interference in the area has much to answer for too. My guess is that if it wasnt for the oil we'd pay as much attention to the area as we do the Congo. Bottom line is its about money not democracy or religion so lets not forget who gave/traded the technology and weapons tothem that we worry about so much now nor who made the area as powerful/influential as it is. Are we now reaping what the west itself has sown? Worrying times indeed and agree with others that cant see Cameron having the qualities we need to deal with the situation
Yes I certainly agree that the seeds of successive crops sown in that area are now beginning to produce bitter fruit Jerry.
The maintenance of a readably accessible, dependable and affordable supply of oil is certainly one of the reasons why so much attention is being paid to the situation in that region.
The other (insofar as this piece is concerned) is the need to monitor the likelihood that a nuclear capable Israel will be goaded into unilateral action against any one of her tormentors.
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David Owen said on day one of the uprising we needed a UN resolution for a no-fly zone to prevent the massacre of thousands, unfortunately we all dithered, while we're at it we should be condemning the rulers in Bahrain but no we can't afford any large operation in Libya nor can we afford not to - its Iraq all over again - we were right to take out Saddam and it'd right to take out Gaddaffi and maybe just maybe the Libyan people will overlook our friendship with him, but the fact is they want and need our help and we have to give it - yes it'll be messy and prolonged but thats the price of oil these days - dress it up all you want in "democracy this, freedom that and humanitarian the other" but just like Iraq its about control of oil - whether we can stomach our reliance on the black stuff much longer is going to be tested as it dries up in the coming years, but until it does run out we better get used to sticking our noses in places we'd rather not be :(
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From a World stability point of view, I'm not sure we should be having so many regime changes in such a short space of time. Whilst I accept that the peoples may want change, and after Tunisia, saw an opportunity, such change in a potentially unstable region, particularly regions were harsh dictatorships have maintained some level of stability, needs to proceed slowly with caution...
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From a World stability point of view, I'm not sure we should be having so many regime changes in such a short space of time. Whilst I accept that the peoples may want change, and after Tunisia, saw an opportunity, such change in a potentially unstable region, particularly regions were harsh dictatorships have maintained some level of stability, needs to proceed slowly with caution...
particularly regions were harsh dictatorships have maintained some level of stability, needs to proceed slowly with caution
Yes, that's an important point J.
Aside from the humanitarian and moral aspect of this issue our own stability (viewing this in the narrowest sense) depends on the maintenance of the present arrangements there.
Should the UN resolution morph into a ground involvement - which is quite likely despite all the assurances and expressed desires to the contrary - the relative stability of the region will go teats-up. The consequent upward thrust in the cost of the very substance that we depend on so much for running day to day matters here will have real impact on our own circumstances.
There is also the very great danger that such a destabilisation will be used by the enemies of Israel to deal with their perceived 'problem' once and for all - with all the unimaginable consequences that this would bring.
Aside from this, I fear that the ‘Genie’ has now escaped the bottle and that the world now stands closer to the precipice of widespread and prolonged disorder than ever before.
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I wish to say nice things about freedom and etc etc like Lizzie but those events is another kind..
first this is the war of multinational companies and their owners .. anyone who doesnt believe me check the names and you will see their link to those companies..I really feel bad for young soldiers who will loose their lifes or got nothing except a medal for a war which is not their responsibility..
uncle sam as usual will gulp all profits in the end where they will try to stop Brits in every way as done before..
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I wish to say nice things about freedom and etc etc like Lizzie but those events is another kind..
first this is the war of multinational companies and their owners .. anyone who doesnt believe me check the names and you will see their link to those companies..I really feel bad for young soldiers who will loose their lifes or got nothing except a medal for a war which is not their responsibility..
uncle sam as usual will gulp all profits in the end where they will try to stop Brits in every way as done before..
Cem, your hatred of America and capitalism knows no bounds does it? ::)
The UN no-fly zone is supported by the African Union and the Arab League and was pushed by France & the UK upon an initially-reluctant US. It IS about saving civilian lives...though whether it will end in success is another matter. :-/
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Democracy? Strange concept that. Sure, we get to vote once every five years but, once the government is in power, we get no say whatsoever in matters such as Libya. We can do nought but sit and watch developments, and hope our leaders don't make too much of a balls-up.
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Democracy? Strange concept that. Sure, we get to vote once every five years but, once the government is in power, we get no say whatsoever in matters such as Libya. We can do nought but sit and watch developments, and hope our leaders don't make too much of a balls-up.
We haven't lived in a real democracy for ages. If politicians act as we wish it's by coincidence, not by design. ;) :(
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we do live in a democracy, and its pretty insulting to those in the world fighting for basic human rights to suggest otherwise. but by its very nature democracy will first and foremost protect the rich and powerful as they have the loudest and most influential voices, witness the cuts.....sorry...."savings" that are the first to be implemented - benefits, social services, housing, libraries, youth training, homeless programmes, drug rehabs, etc i doubt any politician has ever had need of any of these services and their powerful friends and lobbyists see it as affecting the least likely to vote: the poor, the disenfranchised. witness the constant attacks on benefit cheats by mps, many of whom, lets not forget, fraudulently claimed many thousands more than benefit cheats have access to, even the non-fraudulent cases: multi-millionares claiming mortgage payments they dont need or paying family members tens of thousands for "research" but no, attack the desperate - it plays well to the crowds and helps us forget the real crimes :y
the fact that we all of us have the power to remove any government every 4 or 5 years is often overlooked in favour of who smiles best for the cameras :o
and yes, the EU is demonstrably un-democratic, but we do have a choice in whose policies we decide best represent us, the fact that most will lie to gain power is another matter, but if they lie boot them out and try someone else ;D
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We have a form of political democracy, a degree of it. But it is a long way from the pure ideal of democracy - the will of the people being paramount. ;)
Getting back to the subject. It seems to me that we are now past the point of no return. The decision has been made to not ignore Gaddafis reaction to the rebels in Libya. He will have to be removed now, by whatever means are available. There is no other option now.
If he isnt, he will massacre the rebels, kick out the western oil companies, and when possible, wreak revenge - probably by funding terrorist campaigns again.
I wonder if he will adapt a scorched earth mentality and start destroying the oilfields?
Funny old world - a couple of months ago he was a reconstructed statesman who was our new best friend. He was even pumping millions into one of our universities - coincidentally, the one his son was awarded a degree from.
Now he was returned to being the worst pariah the civilised world has seen for a long time, and must be dealt with as a matter of urgency.
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I wish to say nice things about freedom and etc etc like Lizzie but those events is another kind..
first this is the war of multinational companies and their owners .. anyone who doesnt believe me check the names and you will see their link to those companies..I really feel bad for young soldiers who will loose their lifes or got nothing except a medal for a war which is not their responsibility..
uncle sam as usual will gulp all profits in the end where they will try to stop Brits in every way as done before..
Cem, your hatred of America and capitalism knows no bounds does it? ::)
The UN no-fly zone is supported by the African Union and the Arab League and was pushed by France & the UK upon an initially-reluctant US. It IS about saving civilian lives...though whether it will end in success is another matter. :-/
hatred of America .. wrong, very wrong I'm afraid.. there are mortals and slaves like us .. problem is the rich vampires there living on wars and human blood >:(
" African Union and the Arab League and was pushed by France & the UK upon an initially-reluctant US.."
very interesting mixture..un-democratic Arab and African countries doesnt disturb west from freedom point of view if they continue to pump oil ;D
and as far as I remember the last time west decided to bring freedom to Iraq they saved more than 1 million lifes :D :D >:( .. isnt it ?
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We have a form of political democracy, a degree of it. But it is a long way from the pure ideal of democracy - the will of the people being paramount. ;)
the last government did their best to chip away at our democracy, removing hard fought rights under the guise of "protecting us" from "terrorists", as a famous man once said tho "People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people."
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I agree. What Bliar and co. did to freedom and democracy in this country was utterly criminal, in fact most of the things they did while in power were utterly criminal imo.
I see Gaddafi has just declared a ceasefire in Libya.The mind games continue.
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Cease fire declared. Pity, I thought it might be an interesting weekend. Looks like it's Morrisons again for me. :(
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Cease fire declared. Pity, I thought it might be an interesting weekend. Looks like it's Morrisons again for me. :(
Never mind Steve - there's always next weekend, when Albs comes back from Milan. ;D ;D
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We have a form of political democracy, a degree of it. But it is a long way from the pure ideal of democracy - the will of the people being paramount. ;)
the last government did their best to chip away at our democracy, removing hard fought rights under the guise of "protecting us" from "terrorists", as a famous man once said tho "People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people."
I assume you refer to the original purveyor of the sentiments rather than the following one.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlgTwp93E48&feature=related[/media]
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Cease fire declared. Pity, I thought it might be an interesting weekend. Looks like it's Morrisons again for me. :(
Never mind Steve - there's always next weekend, when Albs comes back from Milan. ;D ;D
Did you have remind me Z ?.....I have to watch a game of football while Im there. >:( :'( ::)
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I agree. What Bliar and co. did to freedom and democracy in this country was utterly criminal, in fact most of the things they did while in power were utterly criminal imo.
I see Gaddafi has just declared a ceasefire in Libya.The mind games continue.
Blair is as far as I am concerned a traitor.
Libya is a civil war between a corrupt dictator and the ordinary person.
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Cease fire declared. Pity, I thought it might be an interesting weekend. Looks like it's Morrisons again for me. :(
Never mind Steve - there's always next weekend, when Albs comes back from Milan. ;D ;D
Did you have remind me Z ?.....I have to watch a game of football while Im there. >:( :'( ::)
The fact that it’s in Milan should lighten the load somewhat son. ;D ;D :y
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I agree. What Bliar and co. did to freedom and democracy in this country was utterly criminal, in fact most of the things they did while in power were utterly criminal imo.
I see Gaddafi has just declared a ceasefire in Libya.The mind games continue.
Blair is as far as I am concerned a traitor.
Libya is a civil war between a corrupt dictator and the ordinary person.
and the people hired by some :D
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Cease fire declared. Pity, I thought it might be an interesting weekend. Looks like it's Morrisons again for me. :(
Never mind Steve - there's always next weekend, when Albs comes back from Milan. ;D ;D
Did you have remind me Z ?.....I have to watch a game of football while Im there. >:( :'( ::)
The fact that it’s in Milan should lighten the load somewhat son. ;D ;D :y
Remake of the Italian Job?
Micheal Caine meets Frank Spencer. ;D ;D
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If we dont have the planes and carriers (no bad thing) then we cant get heavily involved (no bad thing) this means less expense (no bad thing).
Its just win, win, win ;D ;D ;D
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Hopefully the UN resolution has made Gadaffi sit up and take notice that the international community won't sit on their hands and watch while he murders the people of Libya.... and in my view that goes for the other despots aound the world as well!
I'm glad that the UN has finally got round to assuming a position on this, as if we did nothing we would be witnessing genocide in Bengazi and the world has sat and watched too many genocides in recent history.... Cambodia, The Balkans, Rwanda and the DRC spring to mind :'( :'( :'(
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If we dont have the planes and carriers (no bad thing) then we cant get heavily involved (no bad thing) this means less expense (no bad thing).
Its just win, win, win ;D ;D ;D
But we do have enough Tornado GR4's, Typhoons, and even Nimrod's, R1's that is, are available. We don't need the carriers as thanks to our old Empire we can still use Gibraltar, Malta and Cyprus :y :y :y
But of course it will also be the French, Italians, and whatever the Arab League nations are prepared to use, involved, not just British resources!
Well done by the way to David Cameron for playing this policy all the way through, against initial great (USA) opposition, to arrive at this historic UN commitment! :y :y :y :y :y
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i think we should take blair and brown and the outher idiots out to the middle east and NUKE the lot of them
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Cease fire declared. Pity, I thought it might be an interesting weekend. Looks like it's Morrisons again for me. :(
Never mind Steve - there's always next weekend, when Albs comes back from Milan. ;D ;D
Did you have remind me Z ?.....I have to watch a game of football while Im there. >:( :'( ::)
The fact that it’s in Milan should lighten the load somewhat son. ;D ;D :y
Oh yeah - football,shops and more shops.Interspersed with a visit to lake Como. ::)
I turned down the chance of A visit to the ferrari and Ducati factories while Im there because I couldnt be arsed- I really am old now. ::) :'(
Currently sat in a hotel near Gatwick - bored - waitng for the great joy of flying with Sleazyjets finest early in the morning.
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We've got no planes or carriers to launch them from & hav'nt we learnt our lesson getting involved in everyone elses fights?
We're no good at it & we can't afford it, we can't police the world, where do we draw the line?
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We've got no planes or carriers to launch them from & hav'nt we learnt our lesson getting involved in everyone elses fights?
We're no good at it & we can't afford it, we can't police the world, where do we draw the line?
When there's political capital to be gained, there is no line, Amigo. ;)
Or am I way too cynical? :-/
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I wish to say nice things about freedom and etc etc like Lizzie but those events is another kind..
first this is the war of multinational companies and their owners .. anyone who doesnt believe me check the names and you will see their link to those companies..I really feel bad for young soldiers who will loose their lifes or got nothing except a medal for a war which is not their responsibility..
uncle sam as usual will gulp all profits in the end where they will try to stop Brits in every way as done before..
Cem, your hatred of America and capitalism knows no bounds does it? ::)
The UN no-fly zone is supported by the African Union and the Arab League and was pushed by France & the UK upon an initially-reluctant US. It IS about saving civilian lives...though whether it will end in success is another matter. :-/
hatred of America .. wrong, very wrong I'm afraid.. there are mortals and slaves like us .. problem is the rich vampires there living on wars and human blood >:(
" African Union and the Arab League and was pushed by France & the UK upon an initially-reluctant US.."
very interesting mixture..un-democratic Arab and African countries doesnt disturb west from freedom point of view if they continue to pump oil ;D
and as far as I remember the last time west decided to bring freedom to Iraq they saved more than 1 million lifes :D :D >:( .. isnt it ?
Sorry Cem, but I am far from rich, sadly....... :D :D :D
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We've got no planes or carriers to launch them from & hav'nt we learnt our lesson getting involved in everyone elses fights?
We're no good at it & we can't afford it, we can't police the world, where do we draw the line?
When there's political capital to be gained, there is no line, Amigo. ;)
Or am I way too cynical? :-/
they can dress it up how they like: humanitarian aid, freedom from oppression, bringing democracy and the will of the people to another part of the world but the fact is, if Libya had no oil it wouldn't be on the news...i cite the ongoing massacre on the Ivory Coast as proof - not a peep about it from anyone :(
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If we dont have the planes and carriers (no bad thing) then we cant get heavily involved (no bad thing) this means less expense (no bad thing).
Its just win, win, win ;D ;D ;D
But we do have enough Tornado GR4's, Typhoons, and even Nimrod's, R1's that is, are available. We don't need the carriers as thanks to our old Empire we can still use Gibraltar, Malta and Cyprus :y :y :y
But of course it will also be the French, Italians, and whatever the Arab League nations are prepared to use, involved, not just British resources!
Well done by the way to David Cameron for playing this policy all the way through, against initial great (USA) opposition, to arrive at this historic UN commitment! :y :y :y :y :y
No one wanted to comment on my post then!! ::) ::) ::)
Oh, well!! >:( >:(
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Nobody wanted to argue with you? Or maybe everyone agreed? ;)
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If we dont have the planes and carriers (no bad thing) then we cant get heavily involved (no bad thing) this means less expense (no bad thing).
Its just win, win, win ;D ;D ;D
But we do have enough Tornado GR4's, Typhoons, and even Nimrod's, R1's that is, are available. We don't need the carriers as thanks to our old Empire we can still use Gibraltar, Malta and Cyprus :y :y :y
But of course it will also be the French, Italians, and whatever the Arab League nations are prepared to use, involved, not just British resources!
Well done by the way to David Cameron for playing this policy all the way through, against initial great (USA) opposition, to arrive at this historic UN commitment! :y :y :y :y :y
No one wanted to comment on my post then!! ::) ::) ::)
Oh, well!! >:( >:(
maybe everyone agrees and theres nothing more to say?
and if you believe that you'll believe the Libyan ceasefire exists :o :y
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If we dont have the planes and carriers (no bad thing) then we cant get heavily involved (no bad thing) this means less expense (no bad thing).
Its just win, win, win ;D ;D ;D
But we do have enough Tornado GR4's, Typhoons, and even Nimrod's, R1's that is, are available. We don't need the carriers as thanks to our old Empire we can still use Gibraltar, Malta and Cyprus :y :y :y
But of course it will also be the French, Italians, and whatever the Arab League nations are prepared to use, involved, not just British resources!
Well done by the way to David Cameron for playing this policy all the way through, against initial great (USA) opposition, to arrive at this historic UN commitment! :y :y :y :y :y
No one wanted to comment on my post then!! ::) ::) ::)
Oh, well!! >:( >:(
Oh dear. A female type hissy fit. Good job we don't have a woman PM(T).
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Pilot left it late to eject didn't he? Suspect ejecting early may be unwise, but didn't see the shoot open. :o
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If we dont have the planes and carriers (no bad thing) then we cant get heavily involved (no bad thing) this means less expense (no bad thing).
Its just win, win, win ;D ;D ;D
But we do have enough Tornado GR4's, Typhoons, and even Nimrod's, R1's that is, are available. We don't need the carriers as thanks to our old Empire we can still use Gibraltar, Malta and Cyprus :y :y :y
But of course it will also be the French, Italians, and whatever the Arab League nations are prepared to use, involved, not just British resources!
Well done by the way to David Cameron for playing this policy all the way through, against initial great (USA) opposition, to arrive at this historic UN commitment! :y :y :y :y :y
No one wanted to comment on my post then!! ::) ::) ::)
Oh, well!! >:( >:(
Oh dear. A female type hissy fit. Good job we don't have a woman PM(T).
Cannot argue that Steve, and I am sorry everyone!! :-[ :-[ :-[ Got up this morning feeling crap, and had to take it out on somebody! So opened up on the OOF, and fired where I could!! :P :P :P :P
Feel better now!! :D :D :D :D ;) Sorry again :-X :-X :-X
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If we dont have the planes and carriers (no bad thing) then we cant get heavily involved (no bad thing) this means less expense (no bad thing).
Its just win, win, win ;D ;D ;D
But we do have enough Tornado GR4's, Typhoons, and even Nimrod's, R1's that is, are available. We don't need the carriers as thanks to our old Empire we can still use Gibraltar, Malta and Cyprus :y :y :y
But of course it will also be the French, Italians, and whatever the Arab League nations are prepared to use, involved, not just British resources!
Well done by the way to David Cameron for playing this policy all the way through, against initial great (USA) opposition, to arrive at this historic UN commitment! :y :y :y :y :y
No one wanted to comment on my post then!! ::) ::) ::)
Oh, well!! >:( >:(
Oh dear. A female type hissy fit. Good job we don't have a woman PM(T).
Cannot argue that Steve, and I am sorry everyone!! :-[ :-[ :-[ Got up this morning feeling crap, and had to take it out on somebody! So opened up on the OOF, and fired where I could!! :P :P :P :P
Feel better now!! :D :D :D :D ;) Sorry again :-X :-X :-X
;D ;D I wish I could too Lizzie :y
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If we dont have the planes and carriers (no bad thing) then we cant get heavily involved (no bad thing) this means less expense (no bad thing).
Its just win, win, win ;D ;D ;D
But we do have enough Tornado GR4's, Typhoons, and even Nimrod's, R1's that is, are available. We don't need the carriers as thanks to our old Empire we can still use Gibraltar, Malta and Cyprus :y :y :y
But of course it will also be the French, Italians, and whatever the Arab League nations are prepared to use, involved, not just British resources!
Well done by the way to David Cameron for playing this policy all the way through, against initial great (USA) opposition, to arrive at this historic UN commitment! :y :y :y :y :y
No one wanted to comment on my post then!! ::) ::) ::)
Oh, well!! >:( >:(
Oh dear. A female type hissy fit. Good job we don't have a woman PM(T).
Cannot argue that Steve, and I am sorry everyone!! :-[ :-[ :-[ Got up this morning feeling crap, and had to take it out on somebody! So opened up on the OOF, and fired where I could!! :P :P :P :P
Feel better now!! :D :D :D :D ;) Sorry again :-X :-X :-X
;D ;D I wish I could too Lizzie :y
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D It certainly makes one feel better Cem! ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
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LZ, Not needing aircraft carriers is not an option as it is a floating base allowing us to strike from out at sea.
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LZ, Not needing aircraft carriers is not an option as it is a floating base allowing us to strike from out at sea.
The French will have their carrier off the Libyan coast, with carriers of the USA also available as floating bases.
As I stated though, Cyprus, Malta, Gibralter, and even the Italian bases being made available could all be used by the RAF. ;) ;)
That is not forgetting the bases in Turkey and the Arab states involved in this enterprise.
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LZ, Not needing aircraft carriers is not an option as it is a floating base allowing us to strike from out at sea.
The French will have their carrier off the Libyan coast, with carriers of the USA also available as floating bases.
As I stated though, Cyprus, Malta, Gibralter, and even the Italian bases being made available could all be used by the RAF. ;) ;)
That is not forgetting the bases in Turkey and the Arab states involved in this enterprise.
Hurray!
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LZ, Not needing aircraft carriers is not an option as it is a floating base allowing us to strike from out at sea.
The French will have their carrier off the Libyan coast, with carriers of the USA also available as floating bases.
As I stated though, Cyprus, Malta, Gibralter, and even the Italian bases being made available could all be used by the RAF. ;) ;)
That is not forgetting the bases in Turkey and the Arab states involved in this enterprise.
Hurray!
;D ;D
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LZ, Not needing aircraft carriers is not an option as it is a floating base allowing us to strike from out at sea.
The French will have their carrier off the Libyan coast, with carriers of the USA also available as floating bases.
As I stated though, Cyprus, Malta, Gibralter, and even the Italian bases being made available could all be used by the RAF. ;) ;)
That is not forgetting the bases in Turkey and the Arab states involved in this enterprise.
Hurray!
Cheeky bugger! ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D
It is "could" Steve because we do not know yet which, if any, they "will" use as that is now a State Secret - according to my friend David! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
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If we dont have the planes and carriers (no bad thing) then we cant get heavily involved (no bad thing) this means less expense (no bad thing).
Its just win, win, win ;D ;D ;D
But we do have enough Tornado GR4's, Typhoons, and even Nimrod's, R1's that is, are available. We don't need the carriers as thanks to our old Empire we can still use Gibraltar, Malta and Cyprus :y :y :y
But of course it will also be the French, Italians, and whatever the Arab League nations are prepared to use, involved, not just British resources!
Well done by the way to David Cameron for playing this policy all the way through, against initial great (USA) opposition, to arrive at this historic UN commitment! :y :y :y :y :y
No one wanted to comment on my post then!! ::) ::) ::)
Oh, well!! >:( >:(
Oh dear. A female type hissy fit. Good job we don't have a woman PM(T).
Our last woman PM was rather good I thought
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If we dont have the planes and carriers (no bad thing) then we cant get heavily involved (no bad thing) this means less expense (no bad thing).
Its just win, win, win ;D ;D ;D
But we do have enough Tornado GR4's, Typhoons, and even Nimrod's, R1's that is, are available. We don't need the carriers as thanks to our old Empire we can still use Gibraltar, Malta and Cyprus :y :y :y
But of course it will also be the French, Italians, and whatever the Arab League nations are prepared to use, involved, not just British resources!
Well done by the way to David Cameron for playing this policy all the way through, against initial great (USA) opposition, to arrive at this historic UN commitment! :y :y :y :y :y
No one wanted to comment on my post then!! ::) ::) ::)
Oh, well!! >:( >:(
Oh dear. A female type hissy fit. Good job we don't have a woman PM(T).
Our last woman PM was rather good I thought
yep, now we don't have to bother making anything in this country :y
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LZ,I understand we have the use of these bases. But we are dependent on those countries and by arrangement.
It would still be good to know they are available. However, you may say I am counter arguing by this fact that it will likely be a short operation and therefore carriers (asset) will not be required.
But why be dependent on others assets :question
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LZ,I understand we have the use of these bases. But we are dependent on those countries and by arrangement.
It would still be good to know they are available. However, you may say I am counter arguing by this fact that it will likely be a short operation and therefore carriers (asset) will not be required.
But why be dependent on others assets :question
To start with using other peoples bases is cheaper! :D :D :D ;)
As for carriers, they are actually a wonderful target for the enemy to destroy, and that is why we are now in the age of long range fighters, with in flight re-fueling and missiles.
Note that it was a Vanguard class submarine that has fired off 124 Tomahawk missiles from "somewhere in the Mediterranean". The new age where big surface ships are redundant in so many cases, and especially in a full scale war with a major military country. ;) ;)
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I read this and can't help but agree somewhat:
http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/comment/Gerald-Warner-Dave39s-small-war.6737071.jp?articlepage=1
;)
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;D ;D ;D ;D
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se79NO4ODP0[/media]
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and French ceremony :-?
http://www.videogetir.com/videos/1948/kaddafi-paris-te-sarkozy-tarafindan-krallar-gibi-karsilanmisti-gaddafi-visited-sarkozy-in-paris--video.html
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I read this and can't help but agree somewhat:
http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/comment/Gerald-Warner-Dave39s-small-war.6737071.jp?articlepage=1
;)
As would I.
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;D ;D ;D ;D
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se79NO4ODP0[/media]
Did he sleep with him too ;D ;D
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;D ;D ;D ;D
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se79NO4ODP0[/media]
Did he sleep with him too ;D ;D
I'm sure Berlusconi dont remember as he has a long list ;D
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I think Gadaffi is a little old for Burlusconi's tastes..
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I read this and can't help but agree somewhat:
http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/comment/Gerald-Warner-Dave39s-small-war.6737071.jp?articlepage=1
;)
good piece - dont agree with it, but good none the less.
obviously he hates and mistrusts DC, which is healthy, but if this is a "mini-war" that gives DC the chance to pretend hes a world leader and he studies and admires Tony Blairs premiership, then i'm sure hes done what TB didn't - have a clear objective on why they're there and when to leave.
I'm quite sure Daves thought all this through :y
in any case - i wouldnt want to sit night after night watching people being murdered in Benghazi knowing we could halt it :(
i know this happens throughout the world and we do little, but two wrongs dont make a right, and, though they'll never say it - Gaddafi's death wouldnt be viewed as a bad thing by the region or the west - there was a british general interviewed on newsnight who sensibly didnt discuss it.....unlike the idiot minister (his name escapes me) that Jeremy Paxman had tied in knots :o