Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Nickbat on 11 March 2011, 09:30:25
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Shocking news.
Apparently Japanese media are reporting the city of Kurihara has been completely destroyed, population 77,000+
:'( :( :(
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watching it here, shocking pictures of water/mud flows slamming into a motorway :o :'(
Huge oil fire too at an LPG refinery
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http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Video-Japan-Earthquake-Tokyo-Tsunami-Fears-After-89-Magnitude-Quake-Rocks-Buildings-In-Capital/Article/201103215950160?lpos=World_News_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15950160_Video:_Japan_Earthquake:_Tokyo_Tsunami_Fears_After_8.9_Magnitude_Quake_Rocks_Buildings_In_Capital
Its got a Live TV feed from that...
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Another feed here:
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/tsunami-surges-across-japan-after-89-quake-20110311-1bqym.html
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utterly devastating, the whole Pacific area is on alert, that footage of the the mud and oil and fires sweeping over fields is terrible :o
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Stark reminder of the power of nature and how puny humans really are .. :(
Thoughts and prayers to all affected .. methinks the casualty toll will be very high .. :(
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Shocking scenes!! :o :'( We really don't know how lucky we are in this country ::) It puts our few inchs of snow dramas into perspective :-/
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unbelievable pictures on the tv,I feel for the people caught up in this :'(
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Stark reminder of the power of nature and how puny humans really are .. :(
Thoughts and prayers to all affected .. methinks the casualty toll will be very high .. :(
Stark reminder of the power of nature and how puny humans really are
Quite correct and the sooner we realize it the better it will prepare us for what’s to come.
Heartbreaking and awesome scenes indeed - our collective prayers and good wishes must go to all those involved.
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whats galling is that Japan is probably the best prepared country on the planet for dealing with earthquakes and tsunamis - its the folk in mud huts on islands in the pacific that have no idea whats coming i fear for :(
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ship carrying 100 people swept away, being reported by the beeb :(
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Nuclear reactor has problems with cooling pumps ... lack of electricity to run them .... :(
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Nuclear reactor has problems with cooling pumps ... lack of electricity to run them .... :(
sky now saying two reactors with cooling problems :(
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Tsunami now hitting Hawai .... :(
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Hearts go out to them we all moan about things but to lose all by this just too bad for words. :'( :'( :'( :'(
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Been keeping tabs since 7am as my Aunt lives in Tokyo and I have friends in Japan too. Thankfully after a 3 hour wait she got through on skype to say she was safe and well.
Nuclear reactors are apparently safe now as the emergency measures have worked. Oil refinery is still blazing as is a a whole town! Apparently 88,000 reported missing so far. The strength of the earthquake was 8000 times greater than that of Christchurch.
Hawaii should be fine tbh, it's a volcanic island that actually has snow on its peaks. It's the low lying islands that are under real threat imo.
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Omfg! First I heard of this, and just watched the footage on sky and BBC.
Tsunamis racing accros land, seen some disaster movies, but
So this fault line, seems to be working it's was east round China etc. From the indain ocean problems we had a couple of years ago(2004), then Taiwan area copped it not too long ago, now a jump to the pacific and japan. What's going on? Is this related? All on one plate?
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Heard about the ship with 100 people swept away, also a coastal train is still missing, a whole train???? :-?
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Omfg! First I heard of this, and just watched the footage on sky and BBC.
Tsunamis racing accros land, seen some disaster movies, but
So this fault line, seems to be working it's was east round China etc. From the indain ocean problems we had a couple of years ago(2004), then Taiwan area copped it not too long ago, now a jump to the pacific and japan. What's going on? Is this related? All on one plate?
Yeah - they all lie on the Pacific Plate (which is one of the most active, IIRC) - http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Everyone%20Else/images-7/tectonic-plates.jpg
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Heard about the ship with 100 people swept away, also a coastal train is still missing, a whole train???? :-?
makes you realise how bad it there if its swept one of them away :(
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Just watching this live on BBC news the now, at least 2 nuclear plants are now critical, state of emergency declared and there talking about a 3rd plant in trouble, could get seriously bad very quickly if they go up, think theres a good bit to go with this disaster by the looks of it
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i watch a lot of news - they tend to leap to the worst case scenario and work backwards, so regarding the nuclear reactor meltdowns - its not necessarily disastrous - we've had meltdowns in scotland and no one batted an eyelid (although it probably wasnt reported widely to be fair), but the minute you say "nuclear meltdown" everyone panics, and news channels cant resist - we've all seen 3 mile island, they all think theyre jane fonda on a mission :o
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i watch a lot of news - they tend to leap to the worst case scenario and work backwards, so regarding the nuclear reactor meltdowns - its not necessarily disastrous - we've had meltdowns in scotland and no one batted an eyelid (although it probably wasnt reported widely to be fair), but the minute you say "nuclear meltdown" everyone panics, and news channels cant resist - we've all seen 3 mile island, they all think theyre jane fonda on a mission :o
I tend to agree BJ.
This is part of the downside of having a rolling news output on a dedicated channel - any variation in the same situation (one that has, in all likelihood, bored the shit out of those presenting the 'news') is fallen upon as being something to get their teeth into to help prevent the presenters and audience falling asleep or pressing the button in an effort to maintain sanity
Sometimes too much 'news' is a bad thing.
It’s all about graphics, ‘expert opinion’, colours and fast moving images in many cases.
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One of the Reactors has just exploded now, looking at the News.
:(
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Like others I have been watching this situation develop since early yesterday, and yes it is absolutely awful :'( :'( :'( :'(
Now though it has just gone up a notch with that explosion at the nuclear plant, which at the moment the authorities do not seem to be commenting on :o :o The UN have now asked for details from the Japanese authorities.
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One of the Reactors has just exploded now, looking at the News.
:(
if the conditions go complete tits up I'm afraid the initial effect of earthquake will be nothing compared to the results of nuclear plant damage.. :( :(
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I was really shocked after hearing that what have happened in Japan on Friday. As we all are helpless against the nature we can’t do anything, but yes United States Geological Survey (USGS) helped them in various ways. I am really thankful to the person who is giving such useful information to world.
potential spam link deleted by admin.
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I guess with all the hysteria (regardless of the eventual outcome) we can kiss the idea of the UK having a viable nuclear infrastructure goodbye.
We'll be forced to cover the entire country in wind farms and then buy in all our electricity from France when we realise we can't generate enough power..
Anyway.. hopefully things don't get any worse in Japan :-/ though the official death toll will surely rise into the tens of thousands as they search through the tsunami hit areas :(
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I guess with all the hysteria (regardless of the eventual outcome) we can kiss the idea of the UK having a viable nuclear infrastructure goodbye.
We'll be forced to cover the entire country in wind farms and then buy in all our electricity from France when we realise we can't generate enough power..
Anyway.. hopefully things don't get any worse in Japan :-/ though the official death toll will surely rise into the tens of thousands as they search through the tsunami hit areas :(
No, I do not think we will thank goodness :y :y
Nuclear experts are pointing out that Japan has a number of nuclear plants that produce over 60% of that country's power needs. Yet, although the plants designs date back to the early 1970s, they still withstood a catastrophic earth quake and tsunami, with just one exception, that although allowing hydrogen to be created that ignited and caused the explosion, is apparently under control and should not release any excessive radiation.
The modern reactors being designed now for the UK will be built to a new standard whereby the heat build up witnessed in Japan will not happen due to a thermal coolong system. ;) ;)
Our faith in nuclear power must never be shaken as it is the only viable way forward until new discoveries and technology in 50, 100, 200 years time gives us an alternative :D :D
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I guess with all the hysteria (regardless of the eventual outcome) we can kiss the idea of the UK having a viable nuclear infrastructure goodbye.
We'll be forced to cover the entire country in wind farms and then buy in all our electricity from France when we realise we can't generate enough power..
Anyway.. hopefully things don't get any worse in Japan :-/ though the official death toll will surely rise into the tens of thousands as they search through the tsunami hit areas :(
No, I do not think we will thank goodness :y :y
Nuclear experts are pointing out that Japan has a number of nuclear plants that produce over 60% of that country's power needs. Yet, although the plants designs date back to the early 1970s, they still withstood a catastrophic earth quake and tsunami, with just one exception, that although allowing hydrogen to be created that ignited and caused the explosion, is apparently under control and should not release any excessive radiation.
The modern reactors being designed now for the UK will be built to a new standard whereby the heat build up witnessed in Japan will not happen due to a thermal coolong system. ;) ;)
Our faith in nuclear power must never be shaken as it is the only viable way forward until new discoveries and technology in 50, 100, 200 years time gives us an alternative :D :D
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Agreed Lizzie :y
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Our faith in nuclear power must never be shaken as it is the only viable way forward until new discoveries and technology in 50, 100, 200 years time gives us an alternative :D :D
Oh I agree entirely .. unfortunately, just try persuading the great unwashed of that after they've had their morning fill of "OMG NUCLEAR EXPLOSION IN JAPAN WE'RE ALL DOOMED!" from the tabloids ;)
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Yup, plus we don't have mega earthquakes to contend with or the possibility of a tsunami hitting either really.
I'm all for nuclear power, makes so much sense. Main reason we haven't converted earlier is political imo.
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Yeah - I was talking to my mum today (I'm a good son like that ;D ) and we commented how lucky we are in the UK really; no real risk of a life changing earthquake, no poisonous animals to speak of (snakes, spiders, scorpions etc) ..
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Yeah - I was talking to my mum today (I'm a good son like that ;D ) and we commented how lucky we are in the UK really; no real risk of a life changing earthquake, no poisonous animals to speak of (snakes, spiders, scorpions etc) ..
Now I'm more scared of those than anything else!! :o :o :o :o
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if you play with fire , soon your hands will burn, without exception :(
some may not accept but as I said earlier, I'll stay without electricity in case necessary and even in cold..
some years ago electricity was cut in the middle of winter and the combi didnt work.. And I passed 2 nights in a cold home.. I'll always prefer this instead of facing radiation..
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Our faith in nuclear power must never be shaken as it is the only viable way forward until new discoveries and technology in 50, 100, 200 years time gives us an alternative :D :D
Oh I agree entirely .. unfortunately, just try persuading the great unwashed of that after they've had their morning fill of "OMG NUCLEAR EXPLOSION IN JAPAN WE'RE ALL DOOMED!" from the tabloids ;)
Oh yes the gutter press may have a go at that Aaron, but thank goodness the UK is set on a course of new nuclear power station as our government know that really is the way forward no matter what other "green satisfying schemes" some come up with. The public are currently learning about the high price of oil and coal fired power stations v. nuclear, and the nonense of so called 'alternatives' that are being ridiculed, being politically non-viable in the long term ;) ;)
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Setting aside the nuclear power/will we-wont we argument, have the Japanese found the missing train yet? The end butchers bill will undoubtedly be immense, let alone what else adds up from the other lesser islands in the Pacific rim.
Makes a bit of snow and foul weather quite bearable, to my eye.... :'(
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Setting aside the nuclear power/will we-wont we argument, have the Japanese found the missing train yet? The end butchers bill will undoubtedly be immense, let alone what else adds up from the other lesser islands in the Pacific rim.
Makes a bit of snow and foul weather quite bearable, to my eye.... :'(
I believe they have, as I have noted film shot from a helicopter that showed the remains of a train that I doubt anyone could have escaped from :'( :'( :'( :'(
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Setting aside the nuclear power/will we-wont we argument, have the Japanese found the missing train yet? The end butchers bill will undoubtedly be immense, let alone what else adds up from the other lesser islands in the Pacific rim.
Makes a bit of snow and foul weather quite bearable, to my eye.... :'(
I heard there were not one but two trains completely missing :-/
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Setting aside the nuclear power/will we-wont we argument, have the Japanese found the missing train yet? The end butchers bill will undoubtedly be immense, let alone what else adds up from the other lesser islands in the Pacific rim.
Makes a bit of snow and foul weather quite bearable, to my eye.... :'(
I heard there were not one but two trains completely missing :-/
I think the full horror of this disaster will only become apparent over the coming weeks and months.
The scenes of devastation are heart-wrenching and even though they depict a factual event, these surreal images defy understanding and appear unreal to the point of almost belonging to one's vision of what Hell must be like.
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I think you're right there, Z. The videos of the tsunami 'sludge' marching across the land were truly mind blowing - a relentless, relatively slow moving, churn of mud, debris, cars, (probably people) that didn't even seem to skip a beat regardless of what obstacles it met.
It looked truly alien and not of this world.
What I find amazing is how folks I know in Tokyo are just .. getting on with it. There is clearly a gentle undercurrent of worry, but by and large they're just putting things back together and getting on with life..
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Setting aside the nuclear power/will we-wont we argument, have the Japanese found the missing train yet? The end butchers bill will undoubtedly be immense, let alone what else adds up from the other lesser islands in the Pacific rim.
Makes a bit of snow and foul weather quite bearable, to my eye.... :'(
I heard there were not one but two trains completely missing :-/
I think the full horror of this disaster will only become apparent over the coming weeks and months.
The scenes of devastation are heart-wrenching and even though they depict a factual event, these surreal images defy understanding and appear unreal to the point of almost belonging to one's vision of what Hell must be like.
I wish you were wrong Zulu, but I know that the 1300 stated as being dead currently must be a terrible under-estimation :'( :'( :'( :'( One coastal town had a population of 10,000, and today we have seen pictures of it after being totally destroyed apart from the hospital, but even that had water up to the fourth floor!! :o :o :o
Death toll total? ::) ::) God only knows! :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
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To be perfectly honest, I'm kind of becoming immune to this kind of thing. I can't look at the news these days without seeing disaster, savagery or terrorism. Sad, but true I'm afraid.
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To be perfectly honest, I'm kind of becoming immune to this kind of thing. I can't look at the news these days without seeing disaster, savagery or terrorism. Sad, but true I'm afraid.
Sadly, I agree.
I think that a number of years viewing death and the emotional aftermath of my previous employ does dull the 'buds somewhat and makes you use the thick skin/black humour medication more.
Now that i no longer see such grief as intimately as previously, I can now react in a very surprising way (according to my close family) to that of years gone by.
I blame that big fella with the dungarees in The Green Mile, personally.... :'( ;)
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This is indeed a very obvious example of the immense power of this living planet and of our tenure here at its pleasure.
Appalling as it is, this disaster would be inconsequential if Lizzie's Yellowstone caldera breaches.
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This is indeed a very obvious example of the immense power of this living planet and of our tenure here at its pleasure.
Appalling as it is, this disaster would be inconsequential if Lizzie's Yellowstone caldera breaches.
Now you're talking. Nothing would survive that and, chances are, it will happen.
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This is indeed a very obvious example of the immense power of this living planet and of our tenure here at its pleasure.
Appalling as it is, this disaster would be inconsequential if Lizzie's Yellowstone caldera breaches.
Now you're talking. Nothing would survive that and, chances are, it will happen.
Yep, one day tomorrow, next week, next year, 50 years, or 600 years time! :o :o :o Doesn't life love keeping you guessing! ::) ::) ::)
I reckon though the earthquakes are heading steadily along the ring of fire towards San Fransisco :o :o That, regretfully, will be the next biggie! :'( :'(
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Ooooopps! Look's like I spoke too soon!! ::) ::) :-[ :-[ :-[
The situation with now two nuclear reactors has apparently worsened this morning, with them approaching "melt down" :o :o :o :o
Still, I will stay committed to my stated beliefs in nuclear enery! :y :y :y :y
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Ooooopps! Look's like I spoke too soon!! ::) ::) :-[ :-[ :-[
The situation with now two nuclear reactors has apparently worsened this morning, with them approaching "melt down" :o :o :o :o
Still, I will stay committed to my stated beliefs in nuclear enery! :y :y :y :y
Lizzie, with some knowledge of nuclear its within manpower to build a nuclear station.. but when things go worse its beyond manpower as seen in example.. so I recommend you to think twice :y
and please remember how many people sacrifice themselves in Russia at least to stop.. and now the shell is degrading .. :(
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It appears some Americans feel its payback :o
http://hurtyoubad.com/?p=9982
For those old farts amongst us, those are facebook status posts :y
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It appears some Americans feel its payback :o
http://hurtyoubad.com/?p=9982
For those old farts amongst us, those are facebook status posts :y
now checked the link.. I'm definitely surprised at this level of hate after many years.. must be teaching dangle berries at the school ;D :D
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It appears some Americans feel its payback :o
http://hurtyoubad.com/?p=9982
For those old farts amongst us, those are facebook status posts :y
I hope they feel the same way when San Andreas pop's it's cork too!!!!
My missus has just mentioned that three volcanoes erupted around the same time ..... anyone know where, and were they on the same fault line ?
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A sixty year old man has been rescued from the roof of his house which was floating 9 miles out to sea. :o :o :o :)
He has to be the luckiest man on planet earth today. :y
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A sixty year old man has been rescued from the roof of his house which was floating 9 miles out to sea. :o :o :o :)
He has to be the luckiest man on planet earth today. :y
your not wrong that is incredible imagine what state he must have been in a very sad time for them all
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seems like aliens are also curious :-?
(click kapat on the right to close the ad-if it shows)
http://video.haberturk.com/haber/video/tsunamiden-ufo-cikti/48781
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seems like aliens are also curious :-?
(click kapat on the right to close the ad-if it shows)
http://video.haberturk.com/haber/video/tsunamiden-ufo-cikti/48781
Nothing would surprise me on that one Cem! I certainly would keep an open mind ;) ;)
UFO activity (now that could be something made by humans) really started during the last years of WW2, and certainly once the atom bombs had been dropped.
Coincidence, collective imagination, or 'an inteligence' watching what we are getting up to / threat to other worlds? Who knows, but like so much 'we', the human race, think we know, we actually know nothing yet!! One day we may know ;) ;)
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It appears some Americans feel its payback :o
http://hurtyoubad.com/?p=9982
For those old farts amongst us, those are facebook status posts :y
now checked the link.. I'm definitely surprised at this level of hate after many years.. must be teaching dangle berries at the school ;D :D
But you must admit, those Japs were bad buggers to our POWs.... :'(
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It appears some Americans feel its payback :o
http://hurtyoubad.com/?p=9982
For those old farts amongst us, those are facebook status posts :y
now checked the link.. I'm definitely surprised at this level of hate after many years.. must be teaching dangle berries at the school ;D :D
But you must admit, those Japs were bad buggers to our POWs.... :'(
War crimes, as far as I remember were punished many many years ago..some rare pescaped that (nazis)..
however I do believe that those times and bad memories must be burried or you can never stop fighting.. :-/
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This is true -- but we have "had our moments" in the past. I doubt any of the children suffering right now have any inkling of Pearl Harbour!
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It appears some Americans feel its payback :o
http://hurtyoubad.com/?p=9982
For those old farts amongst us, those are facebook status posts :y
now checked the link.. I'm definitely surprised at this level of hate after many years.. must be teaching dangle berries at the school ;D :D
But you must admit, those Japs were bad buggers to our POWs.... :'(
War crimes, as far as I remember were punished many many years ago..some rare pescaped that (nazis)..
however I do believe that those times and bad memories must be burried or you can never stop fighting.. :-/
We're talking Americans here Cem. The most bigotted, uneducated, fattest b'stards in the world. ;D
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It appears some Americans feel its payback :o
http://hurtyoubad.com/?p=9982
For those old farts amongst us, those are facebook status posts :y
now checked the link.. I'm definitely surprised at this level of hate after many years.. must be teaching dangle berries at the school ;D :D
But you must admit, those Japs were bad buggers to our POWs.... :'(
War crimes, as far as I remember were punished many many years ago..some rare pescaped that (nazis)..
however I do believe that those times and bad memories must be burried or you can never stop fighting.. :-/
We're talking Americans here Cem. The most bigotted, uneducated, fattest b'stards in the world. ;D
not all of them but for the avg people you have right..
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You just have to look at the comment made by MARTY MANN:
Yeah I hate it for Japan but remember those idiots started World War 2. They bombed Pearl Harbour.
Was it not the Germans who invaded Poland in 1939 that started World War 2???? How the Americans forget the years before their involvement.
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You just have to look at the comment made by MARTY MANN:
Yeah I hate it for Japan but remember those idiots started World War 2. They bombed Pearl Harbour.
Was it not the Germans who invaded Poland in 1939 that started World War 2???? How the Americans forget the years before their involvement.
;D ;D :y
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You just have to look at the comment made by MARTY MANN:
Yeah I hate it for Japan but remember those idiots started World War 2. They bombed Pearl Harbour.
Was it not the Germans who invaded Poland in 1939 that started World War 2???? How the Americans forget the years before their involvement.
Interesting, and on the face of it correct. But actually it could be argued WW2 was born out of the Great War and then the Versailles Treaty, which made the last World War inevitable as recognised by some in 1919. As for the Japanese bombing Pearl Harbour at 0755 on the 7th of December 1941, thank God they did. It resulted in the USA coming into the war that did save the British situation, and gave us all the added bonus of Hitler's Germany declaring war on the United States when already engaged in operation BARBAROSSA in Russia! :o :o :o
What luck that all was, and it was the most defining moment of the war which spelt the eventual demise of the Nazis :y :y :y :y :y
God bless America, and please never insult an American in front of me! :D :D ;)
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I don't think this time of suffering in Japan is the time to be discussing past atrocities. As I have said, we also have historical blood on our hands. These comments, admitedly made by Americans in general, are the product of a minority stuck and guided by the past. With due respect to the American people in general, and to you, Lizzie. The Americans do tend to cry the loudest when they are hurt and suffering. Can they not respect the hurt and suffering in Japan?
Surely they cannot blame those children for Pearl Harbour.
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You just have to look at the comment made by MARTY MANN:
Yeah I hate it for Japan but remember those idiots started World War 2. They bombed Pearl Harbour.
Was it not the Germans who invaded Poland in 1939 that started World War 2???? How the Americans forget the years before their involvement.
Interesting, and on the face of it correct. But actually it could be argued WW2 was born out of the Great War and then the Versailles Treaty, which made the last World War inevitable as recognised by some in 1919. As for the Japanese bombing Pearl Harbour at 0755 on the 7th of December 1941, thank God they did. It resulted in the USA coming into the war that did save the British situation, and gave us all the added bonus of Hitler's Germany declaring war on the United States when already engaged in operation BARBAROSSA in Russia! :o :o :o
What luck that all was, and it was the most defining moment of the war which spelt the eventual demise of the Nazis :y :y :y :y :y
God bless America, and please never insult an American in front of me! :D :D ;)
I think I just did.
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I don't think this time of suffering in Japan is the time to be discussing past atrocities. As I have said, we also have historical blood on our hands. These comments, admitedly made by Americans in general, are the product of a minority stuck and guided by the past. With due respect to the American people in general, and to you, Lizzie. The Americans do tend to cry the loudest when they are hurt and suffering. Can they not respect the hurt and suffering in Japan?
Surely they cannot blame those children for Pearl Harbour.
I agree HC, and my post was an attempt to correct a few misconceptions ;) ;)
The past is the past, and in fact modern day Japan owes a great deal to the USA. Why anyone wants to rake up past emotions of blaming Japan for anything today is beyond me.
The suffering of all people must be the world's concern, and at the moment the attention must be on the horrors suffered, and still being suffered, by the Japanese people :( :(
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You just have to look at the comment made by MARTY MANN:
Yeah I hate it for Japan but remember those idiots started World War 2. They bombed Pearl Harbour.
Was it not the Germans who invaded Poland in 1939 that started World War 2???? How the Americans forget the years before their involvement.
Interesting, and on the face of it correct. But actually it could be argued WW2 was born out of the Great War and then the Versailles Treaty, which made the last World War inevitable as recognised by some in 1919. As for the Japanese bombing Pearl Harbour at 0755 on the 7th of December 1941, thank God they did. It resulted in the USA coming into the war that did save the British situation, and gave us all the added bonus of Hitler's Germany declaring war on the United States when already engaged in operation BARBAROSSA in Russia! :o :o :o
What luck that all was, and it was the most defining moment of the war which spelt the eventual demise of the Nazis :y :y :y :y :y
God bless America, and please never insult an American in front of me! :D :D ;)
Lizzie, Hitler was financially and resourcefully finished after they go deep in Russian lands.. Imo, Americas entering the scene may only have the effect of shortening the war period but remember they rejected to declare war to Germany in the hardest days of Britain when they were fighting with Germany in the skies and under bombardement.. ;)
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They were forced into it Cem. Mind you, they got the hang of it after that, doesn't take them long to get involved now. :-?
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You just have to look at the comment made by MARTY MANN:
Yeah I hate it for Japan but remember those idiots started World War 2. They bombed Pearl Harbour.
Was it not the Germans who invaded Poland in 1939 that started World War 2???? How the Americans forget the years before their involvement.
Interesting, and on the face of it correct. But actually it could be argued WW2 was born out of the Great War and then the Versailles Treaty, which made the last World War inevitable as recognised by some in 1919. As for the Japanese bombing Pearl Harbour at 0755 on the 7th of December 1941, thank God they did. It resulted in the USA coming into the war that did save the British situation, and gave us all the added bonus of Hitler's Germany declaring war on the United States when already engaged in operation BARBAROSSA in Russia! :o :o :o
What luck that all was, and it was the most defining moment of the war which spelt the eventual demise of the Nazis :y :y :y :y :y
God bless America, and please never insult an American in front of me! :D :D ;)
Lizzie, Hitler was financially and resourcefully finished after they go deep in Russian lands.. Imo, Americas entering the scene may only have the effect of shortening the war period but remember they rejected to declare war to Germany in the hardest days of Britain when they were fighting with Germany in the skies and under bombardement.. ;)
We know all that only too well Cem! But President Roosevelt did as much as he politically could to assist in meeting some of Churchill's pleas for armaments and supplies, albeit at much cost to Britain! ::) ::) However, it must be remembered that isolationism existed in the majority throughout America, and they did not want to get embroiled in yet another European conflict. The founding fathers had left Britain and Europe to get away from all that!
However 7th December 1941 was THE turning point, and in fact Britain would have struggled to win back Europe from the Nazis without American help. The war would have dragged on for many years more than it did without the industrial might, and pure manpower numbers of the USA. There was no guarantee that the USSR would overcome the Nazis, but the American involvement kept very much alive the Allies offensive on the Western and Southern fronts. Britain had kept the Nazis at bay from their 'fortress' that would become the base for the future fight back. Without American might however, Britain would not have had the resources to continually attack German interests, and then eventually push the Nazis back from North Africa, Sicily and Normandy. Britain would also have not been in a position to supply Russia with much needed supplies without the feed from the USA.
No, the USA involvement, as much as sometimes I wish it had been different as it resulted in Britain owing £3 billion by 1945, was crucial in securing victory in Europe by May 1945. Then of course the USA was also crucial, indeed the absolute key, to the defeat of the Japanese. The British would not have secured such a victory by themselves.
But that is all history, and today both Germany and Japan are very different countries, with the latter going through a disaster at least as challenging as WW2 itself :'( :'(
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You just have to look at the comment made by MARTY MANN:
Yeah I hate it for Japan but remember those idiots started World War 2. They bombed Pearl Harbour.
Was it not the Germans who invaded Poland in 1939 that started World War 2???? How the Americans forget the years before their involvement.
Interesting, and on the face of it correct. But actually it could be argued WW2 was born out of the Great War and then the Versailles Treaty, which made the last World War inevitable as recognised by some in 1919. As for the Japanese bombing Pearl Harbour at 0755 on the 7th of December 1941, thank God they did. It resulted in the USA coming into the war that did save the British situation, and gave us all the added bonus of Hitler's Germany declaring war on the United States when already engaged in operation BARBAROSSA in Russia! :o :o :o
What luck that all was, and it was the most defining moment of the war which spelt the eventual demise of the Nazis :y :y :y :y :y
God bless America, and please never insult an American in front of me! :D :D ;)
Lizzie, Hitler was financially and resourcefully finished after they go deep in Russian lands.. Imo, Americas entering the scene may only have the effect of shortening the war period but remember they rejected to declare war to Germany in the hardest days of Britain when they were fighting with Germany in the skies and under bombardement.. ;)
We know all that only too well Cem! But President Roosevelt did as much as he politically could to assist in meeting some of Churchill's pleas for armaments and supplies, albeit at much cost to Britain! ::) ::) However, it must be remembered that isolationism existed in the majority throughout America, and they did not want to get embroiled in yet another European conflict. The founding fathers had left Britain and Europe to get away from all that!
However 7th December 1941 was THE turning point, and in fact Britain would have struggled to win back Europe from the Nazis without American help.
thats a debatable subject Lizzie, but one thing is sure.. Europe map would be very different, >
The war would have dragged on for many years more than it did without the industrial might, and pure manpower numbers of the USA. There was no guarantee that the USSR would overcome the Nazis,
after the Russians start to beat Germany.. Remember they break all German lines and visit Hitler in Berlin ;D ;)
but the American involvement kept very much alive the Allies offensive on the Western and Southern fronts. Britain had kept the Nazis at bay from their 'fortress' that would become the base for the future fight back. Without American might however, Britain would not have had the resources to continually attack German interests, and then eventually push the Nazis back from North Africa,
North Africa :-? remember Monty beat Rommel alone without any help..
Sicily and Normandy.
And for Normandy, Americans made the worst plan in history ever.. Brits would do alone better imo ;D ;D
Britain would also have not been in a position to supply Russia with much needed supplies without the feed from the USA.
thats also debatable..
No, the USA involvement, as much as sometimes I wish it had been different as it resulted in Britain owing £3 billion by 1945, was crucial in securing victory in Europe by May 1945. Then of course the USA was also crucial, indeed the absolute key, to the defeat of the Japanese. The British would not have secured such a victory by themselves.
But that is all history, and today both Germany and Japan are very different countries, with the latter going through a disaster at least as challenging as WW2 itself :'( :'(
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Most Americans who consider themselves truely American (Eg, consider themselves to be non-immigrants and be of american origin), are really in fact mostly European as history dictates lol.
Apart from native americans of course...... :D
So most arguements are null and void.
thought i'd stir it up!!!!
And just to say also, that i think the last thing being discussed while Japan is counting its dead, is the history of said countries. IMO it would have no bearing on my sympathies for them.
In the same way that you cannot judge "a people", as in a population of a country, by their leaders actions!
Its short sighted.
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You just have to look at the comment made by MARTY MANN:
Yeah I hate it for Japan but remember those idiots started World War 2. They bombed Pearl Harbour.
Was it not the Germans who invaded Poland in 1939 that started World War 2???? How the Americans forget the years before their involvement.
Interesting, and on the face of it correct. But actually it could be argued WW2 was born out of the Great War and then the Versailles Treaty, which made the last World War inevitable as recognised by some in 1919. As for the Japanese bombing Pearl Harbour at 0755 on the 7th of December 1941, thank God they did. It resulted in the USA coming into the war that did save the British situation, and gave us all the added bonus of Hitler's Germany declaring war on the United States when already engaged in operation BARBAROSSA in Russia! :o :o :o
What luck that all was, and it was the most defining moment of the war which spelt the eventual demise of the Nazis :y :y :y :y :y
God bless America, and please never insult an American in front of me! :D :D ;)
Lizzie, Hitler was financially and resourcefully finished after they go deep in Russian lands.. Imo, Americas entering the scene may only have the effect of shortening the war period but remember they rejected to declare war to Germany in the hardest days of Britain when they were fighting with Germany in the skies and under bombardement.. ;)
We know all that only too well Cem! But President Roosevelt did as much as he politically could to assist in meeting some of Churchill's pleas for armaments and supplies, albeit at much cost to Britain! ::) ::) However, it must be remembered that isolationism existed in the majority throughout America, and they did not want to get embroiled in yet another European conflict. The founding fathers had left Britain and Europe to get away from all that!
However 7th December 1941 was THE turning point, and in fact Britain would have struggled to win back Europe from the Nazis without American help.
thats a debatable subject Lizzie, but one thing is sure.. Europe map would be very different, >
The war would have dragged on for many years more than it did without the industrial might, and pure manpower numbers of the USA. There was no guarantee that the USSR would overcome the Nazis,
after the Russians start to beat Germany.. Remember they break all German lines and visit Hitler in Berlin ;D ;)
Only after British and American forces had kept the Germans busy in the West.
but the American involvement kept very much alive the Allies offensive on the Western and Southern fronts. Britain had kept the Nazis at bay from their 'fortress' that would become the base for the future fight back. Without American might however, Britain would not have had the resources to continually attack German interests, and then eventually push the Nazis back from North Africa,
North Africa :-? remember Monty beat Rommel alone without any help..
Not strictly true Cem, the Americans were fighting in the West of North Africa with the British there and in the Eastern sector. Yes Alamein was a British victory, but Rommel's forces had been weakened by the American and British onslaught, coupled to the Allies crippling of the Afrika Korps. supply lines.
Sicily and Normandy.
And for Normandy, Americans made the worst plan in history ever.. Brits would do alone better imo ;D ;D
That may be Cem, but what happened after the 6th of June was a great combination of British and American military might.
Britain would also have not been in a position to supply Russia with much needed supplies without the feed from the USA.
thats also debatable..
Sorry Cem but the North Atlantic conveys up to December 1941 were being hammered by the German U Boats, so Britain was on the verge of running out of essential supplies, with Churchill deeply worried about the situation. The full American involvement after that date meant Britain could help out Russia.
No, the USA involvement, as much as sometimes I wish it had been different as it resulted in Britain owing £3 billion by 1945, was crucial in securing victory in Europe by May 1945. Then of course the USA was also crucial, indeed the absolute key, to the defeat of the Japanese. The British would not have secured such a victory by themselves.
But that is all history, and today both Germany and Japan are very different countries, with the latter going through a disaster at least as challenging as WW2 itself :'( :'(
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-zfCBCq-8I
this is a reality check for anyone.....
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You just have to look at the comment made by MARTY MANN:
Yeah I hate it for Japan but remember those idiots started World War 2. They bombed Pearl Harbour.
Was it not the Germans who invaded Poland in 1939 that started World War 2???? How the Americans forget the years before their involvement.
Interesting, and on the face of it correct. But actually it could be argued WW2 was born out of the Great War and then the Versailles Treaty, which made the last World War inevitable as recognised by some in 1919. As for the Japanese bombing Pearl Harbour at 0755 on the 7th of December 1941, thank God they did. It resulted in the USA coming into the war that did save the British situation, and gave us all the added bonus of Hitler's Germany declaring war on the United States when already engaged in operation BARBAROSSA in Russia! :o :o :o
What luck that all was, and it was the most defining moment of the war which spelt the eventual demise of the Nazis :y :y :y :y :y
God bless America, and please never insult an American in front of me! :D :D ;)
Lizzie, Hitler was financially and resourcefully finished after they go deep in Russian lands.. Imo, Americas entering the scene may only have the effect of shortening the war period but remember they rejected to declare war to Germany in the hardest days of Britain when they were fighting with Germany in the skies and under bombardement.. ;)
We know all that only too well Cem! But President Roosevelt did as much as he politically could to assist in meeting some of Churchill's pleas for armaments and supplies, albeit at much cost to Britain! ::) ::) However, it must be remembered that isolationism existed in the majority throughout America, and they did not want to get embroiled in yet another European conflict. The founding fathers had left Britain and Europe to get away from all that!
However 7th December 1941 was THE turning point, and in fact Britain would have struggled to win back Europe from the Nazis without American help.
thats a debatable subject Lizzie, but one thing is sure.. Europe map would be very different, >
The war would have dragged on for many years more than it did without the industrial might, and pure manpower numbers of the USA. There was no guarantee that the USSR would overcome the Nazis,
after the Russians start to beat Germany.. Remember they break all German lines and visit Hitler in Berlin ;D ;)
Only after British and American forces had kept the Germans busy in the West.
lets be honest Lizzie.. Russian winter and Russians beat Germans Lizzie.. take a look at German armies and divisons distribution.. Western forces fight with Hitlers finger during that period ;D ;D ;D :D
seriously , best German armies were on the east and North Africa.. ;)
but the American involvement kept very much alive the Allies offensive on the Western and Southern fronts. Britain had kept the Nazis at bay from their 'fortress' that would become the base for the future fight back. Without American might however, Britain would not have had the resources to continually attack German interests, and then eventually push the Nazis back from North Africa,
North Africa :-? remember Monty beat Rommel alone without any help..
Not strictly true Cem, the Americans were fighting in the West of North Africa with the British there and in the Eastern sector. Yes Alamein was a British victory,.
thats it!
but Rommel's forces had been weakened by the American and British onslaught, coupled to the Allies crippling of the Afrika Korps. supply lines.
Sicily and Normandy.
And for Normandy, Americans made the worst plan in history ever.. Brits would do alone better imo ;D ;D
That may be Cem, but what happened after the 6th of June was a great combination of British and American military might.
Confess Lizzie, Americans mess up :P
Britain would also have not been in a position to supply Russia with much needed supplies without the feed from the USA.
thats also debatable..
Sorry Cem but the North Atlantic conveys up to December 1941 were being hammered by the German U Boats, so Britain was on the verge of running out of essential supplies, with Churchill deeply worried about the situation. The full American involved after that date meant Britain could help out Russia.
No, the USA involvement, as much as sometimes I wish it had been different as it resulted in Britain owing £3 billion by 1945, was crucial in securing victory in Europe by May 1945. Then of course the USA was also crucial, indeed the absolute key, to the defeat of the Japanese. The British would not have secured such a victory by themselves.
But that is all history, and today both Germany and Japan are very different countries, with the latter going through a disaster at least as challenging as WW2 itself :'( :'(
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North Africa :-? remember Monty beat Rommel alone without any help..
Not strictly true Cem, the Americans were fighting in the West of North Africa with the British there and in the Eastern sector. Yes Alamein was a British victory,.
thats it!
but Rommel's forces had been weakened by the American and British onslaught, coupled to the Allies crippling of the Afrika Korps. supply lines.
Sorry Cem, I have just re-read what I stated last night and realised I made a mistake in how I described the North Africa Campaign!! :-[ :-[ :-[
I should have worded my reply better, as oof course El Alamein took place and was a great victory without American help, but I should have added that Montgomery then drove the forces of Rommel into Tunisia and by then, AFTER Alamein, the USA and British TORCH landings had taken place which led to the pure might of the Anglo-American forces overwhelming the remains of the Afrika Korp. It was however a fact that although the American forces were real rookies, lacking battle experience, they made a VITAL difference in the destruction of the Panzer groups and the Afrika Korp in general. :D :D ;)
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Now back to the terrible situation in Japan................
A second nuclear plant exploded earlier, although again it seems that it was only due to hot high pressure steam being converted into hydrogen and mixing with oxygen that actual caused the blast :( :(
A third reactor, along with the other two, are still overheating though and apparently are going towartds melt down. All under control the Japanese authorities are saying though, with very limited escapes of radiation.
That's good then! ::) ::) ::) ;)
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I have good plans about Japs.. I will invite them here to live :) ;D so we can buy electronics cheap ;D..
I hope the govt behave before the Russians as they also have similiar plans >:(
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i think this is actually testament to how utterly safe a modernish (well 60's/70's), well designed, nuclear power plant is. If anything it should relax people who don't like the idea of nuclear energy and would far rather chinese and south american coal miners risked their lives day in and day out for their energy :o
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i think this is actually testament to how utterly safe a modernish (well 60's/70's), well designed, nuclear power plant is. If anything it should relax people who don't like the idea of nuclear energy and would far rather chinese and south american coal miners risked their lives day in and day out for their energy :o
Yep, exactly. :y
What we are seeing is the media sensationalising these "explosions".
The fact is, we have a couple of reactors where the cooling systems have totally failed (one might ask if that were avoidable, but anyway..) and we are simply seeing them go through a couple of stages of the planned contingency for such situations, which includes venting of explosive mixtures of oxygen and hydrogen.
Even if the core of a modern reactor does "melt down", all it will trigger is a load of shock! horror! Daily Mail headlines. The containment vessel in which the reactor sits contains a bed of carbon into which the reactor will break up and fall. It will eventually cool to a safe temperature in the still-sealed containment vessel. It then requires an expensive and time consuming cleanup operation, but it won't be dangerous.
The media will doubtless compare it to Chernobyl but forget that that was caused by total incompetence in deliberately bypassing many of the safeguards built into the design.
Kevin
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i think this is actually testament to how utterly safe a modernish (well 60's/70's), well designed, nuclear power plant is. If anything it should relax people who don't like the idea of nuclear energy and would far rather chinese and south american coal miners risked their lives day in and day out for their energy :o
Yep, exactly. :y
What we are seeing is the media sensationalising these "explosions".
The fact is, we have a couple of reactors where the cooling systems have totally failed (one might ask if that were avoidable, but anyway..) and we are simply seeing them go through a couple of stages of the planned contingency for such situations, which includes venting of explosive mixtures of oxygen and hydrogen.
Even if the core of a modern reactor does "melt down", all it will trigger is a load of shock! horror! Daily Mail headlines. The containment vessel in which the reactor sits contains a bed of carbon into which the reactor will break up and fall. It will eventually cool to a safe temperature in the still-sealed containment vessel. It then requires an expensive and time consuming cleanup operation, but it won't be dangerous.
The media will doubtless compare it to Chernobyl but forget that that was caused by total incompetence in deliberately bypassing many of the safeguards built into the design.
Kevin
That is all so right and true Kevin, and certainly on the BBC I am very pleased to note that they repeatedly are explaining why the explosions are taking place and why no damage has been done to the reactors. 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)
Yes, some reactors are still overheating but there is plenty of sea water that apparently is being pumped around them. This is certainly no Chernobyl as you say :y :y :y
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No doubt it will be just the ammunition required to ensure our own nuclear programme never gets rekindled, though, which means we'll be becoming increasingly reliant on non-existent renewables.
That diesel generator in my shed will be coming in handy one day, I expect. ::)
Kevin
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News: Germany is closing its old nuclear power plants..
and will check whats left ..
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News: Germany is closing its old nuclear power plants..
and will check whats left ..
Knee-jerk reaction.
As opposed to nuclear reaction. ;D
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News: Germany is closing its old nuclear power plants..
and will check whats left ..
That is pure panic setting in Cem! ::) ::)
PR - Public Relations- will click in all over I reckon now Cem :D :D ;)
Nuclear power is still very safe in all most parts of the world, especially the modern versions soon (we hope!!) to be rolled out across the UK. Nothing else will give us the power we all need ;)
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No doubt it will be just the ammunition required to ensure our own nuclear programme never gets rekindled, though, which means we'll be becoming increasingly reliant on non-existent renewables.
That diesel generator in my shed will be coming in handy one day, I expect. ::)
I'm pretty sure you're right - sooner or later, we'll be living with intermittent power and slipping back into the dark ages, all because people are too frightened to look forward instead of back.
At which point, I imagine, tech companies, banks and so on who rely on 100% uptime of services will poke off to other countries, and then we'll be stuffed.
-
News: Germany is closing its old nuclear power plants..
and will check whats left ..
That is pure panic setting in Cem! ::) ::)
PR - Public Relations- will click in all over I reckon now Cem :D :D ;)
Nuclear power is still very safe in all most parts of the world, especially the modern versions soon (we hope!!) to be rolled out across the UK. Nothing else will give us the power we all need ;)
tell this to the radiation cooked Japanese and Russians.. ;D :D
and after some time to the Turks >:(
as I said earlier, if you play with fire no matter what precaution you apply, your hands will burn.. :(
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No doubt it will be just the ammunition required to ensure our own nuclear programme never gets rekindled, though, which means we'll be becoming increasingly reliant on non-existent renewables.
That diesel generator in my shed will be coming in handy one day, I expect. ::)
I'm pretty sure you're right - sooner or later, we'll be living with intermittent power and slipping back into the dark ages, all because people are too frightened to look forward instead of back.
At which point, I imagine, tech companies, banks and so on who rely on 100% uptime of services will poke off to other countries, and then we'll be stuffed.
Precisely. Most of what's left of our economy now requires data centres that are up 24/7.
As our supply network stagnates that industry gets ever more easy to relocate overseas. :(
Kevin
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News: Germany is closing its old nuclear power plants..
and will check whats left ..
That is pure panic setting in Cem! ::) ::)
PR - Public Relations- will click in all over I reckon now Cem :D :D ;)
Nuclear power is still very safe in all most parts of the world, especially the modern versions soon (we hope!!) to be rolled out across the UK. Nothing else will give us the power we all need ;)
tell this to the radiation cooked Japanese and Russians.. ;D :D
and after some time to the Turks >:(
as I said earlier, if you play with fire no matter what precaution you apply, your hands will burn.. :(
Whatever man does, in the absence of the technology to avoid it, is a risk. For instance, coal mining, burning fossil fuels, building the infrastrucure, and producing the goods we have used in the past, and to date, have killed millions, with TB and emphysema taking many of those during and post the British industrial revolution. Many are still dying around the world due to 'unsafe' industrial processes across a whole range of industries.
In comparison, with the exception of the terribly managed Chernobyl situation, how many have been killed by nuclear power generation in all Western countries put together? The current Japanese situation is worrying, but the radiation leaks so far have been short term, relatively mild, and should not cause much in long term effects, according to the experts commenting so far. Yes the situation could deteriorate, and the Japanese could pay a horrible price for building one big atomic plant on a fault line, but it does not mean ALL nuclear power plants around the world are unsafe.
No, nuclear power if the plants are constructed to modern standards, in geographically sound areas, maintained to the highest standards, and monitored properly by the world's nuclear agencies, is perfectly safe, and a lot safer, along with being highly efficient, compared to any other generating medium.
If we want the power, we need nuclear power generation ;) ;)
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No point in us curtailling our nuclear programme in any case, as afaik northern France has nuclear power stations all over the place, and if they went up we would suffer more than people in Southern France unless the wind was almost permanently blowing the fallout in the opposite direction.
Nuclear is the only realistic option for the future. Unfortunately we currently have a mentalist (Chris Huhne) for an energy secretary, who stated publicly a couple of years ago that nuclear is evil.
We can only hope that power concentrates his mind (if he has one) and he starts to talk more sense.
-
News: Germany is closing its old nuclear power plants..
and will check whats left ..
That is pure panic setting in Cem! ::) ::)
PR - Public Relations- will click in all over I reckon now Cem :D :D ;)
Nuclear power is still very safe in all most parts of the world, especially the modern versions soon (we hope!!) to be rolled out across the UK. Nothing else will give us the power we all need ;)
tell this to the radiation cooked Japanese and Russians.. ;D :D
and after some time to the Turks >:(
as I said earlier, if you play with fire no matter what precaution you apply, your hands will burn.. :(
Whatever man does, in the absence of the technology to avoid it, is a risk. For instance, coal mining, burning fossil fuels, building the infrastrucure, and producing the goods we have used in the past, and to date, have killed millions, with TB and emphysema taking many of those during and post the British industrial revolution. Many are still dying around the world due to 'unsafe' industrial processes across a whole range of industries.
Lizzie, are you comparing nuclear radation with standard industrial risks :-? like mining or other..
I hope no..A nuclear power plant is actually a nuclear bomb exploding in a slowed fashion..And if for some reason you cant cool it becomes a real bomb..killing many , poisoning a large area for some thousand years.. Can you imagine such a thing on your island..Human kind start to loose when they think they can beat nature and its forces..As prooven..
In comparison, with the exception of the terribly managed Chernobyl situation, how many have been killed by nuclear power generation in all Western countries put together?
please check the list
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_and_radiation_accidents
how many people have to die for some to accept the danger..
No, nuclear power if the plants are constructed to modern standards, in geographically sound areas, maintained to the highest standards, and monitored properly by the world's nuclear agencies, is perfectly safe, and a lot safer, along with being highly efficient, compared to any other generating medium.
If we want the power,
simple,drop your energy requirements
we need nuclear power generation ;) ;)
-
News: Germany is closing its old nuclear power plants..
and will check whats left ..
That is pure panic setting in Cem! ::) ::)
PR - Public Relations- will click in all over I reckon now Cem :D :D ;)
Nuclear power is still very safe in all most parts of the world, especially the modern versions soon (we hope!!) to be rolled out across the UK. Nothing else will give us the power we all need ;)
tell this to the radiation cooked Japanese and Russians.. ;D :D
and after some time to the Turks >:(
as I said earlier, if you play with fire no matter what precaution you apply, your hands will burn.. :(
Whatever man does, in the absence of the technology to avoid it, is a risk. For instance, coal mining, burning fossil fuels, building the infrastrucure, and producing the goods we have used in the past, and to date, have killed millions, with TB and emphysema taking many of those during and post the British industrial revolution. Many are still dying around the world due to 'unsafe' industrial processes across a whole range of industries.
Lizzie, are you comparing nuclear radation with standard industrial risks :-? like mining or other..
I hope no..A nuclear power plant is actually a nuclear bomb exploding in a slowed fashion..And if for some reason you cant cool it becomes a real bomb..killing many , poisoning a large area for some thousand years.. Can you imagine such a thing on your island..Human kind start to loose when they think they can beat nature and its forces..As prooven..
In comparison, with the exception of the terribly managed Chernobyl situation, how many have been killed by nuclear power generation in all Western countries put together?
please check the list
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_and_radiation_accidents
how many people have to die for some to accept the danger..
No, nuclear power if the plants are constructed to modern standards, in geographically sound areas, maintained to the highest standards, and monitored properly by the world's nuclear agencies, is perfectly safe, and a lot safer, along with being highly efficient, compared to any other generating medium.
If we want the power,
simple,drop your energy requirements
we need nuclear power generation ;) ;)
Firstly Cem, yes I am making comparisons, because both subjects are comparable in terms of mans quest to produce energy and goods to use. History has taught us that man has taken risks every step of the way, and nuclear power is actually a far lesser risk than those taken before in terms of human fatalities.
The nuclear power generation may be similar to an atom bomb, but it is not the same and is controlled within an environment especially created for it under human and computer control. An atom bomb, created with weapons grade plutonium to kill millions, goes off in an open, non-controlled environment by way of human command. Thus two very different processes.
I do not normally give any credence to Wikipedia, but as you raise the question of the "list", I will quote what it actually says:
"has reported that worldwide there have been 99 accidents at nuclear power plants.[4] Fifty-seven accidents have occurred since the Chernobyl disaster, and almost two-thirds (56 out of 99) of all nuclear-related accidents have occurred in the USA. Relatively few accidents involved fatalities.[4]"
I have already mentioned the exceptional case of Chernobyl, with exceptional poor management and materials / design in a failing communist state, but even with that the acttual number of fatalities remains uncertain with wild variations. 4000, or 200,000 if so, is a terrible loss of human life. That is undeniable! But that is what I meant by comparing mans losses in past and today's energy generation, directly or indirectly; the losses of human life can be measured in millions. Mankind takes risks in whatever we do. We try to limit them, but sometimes things go wrong. We try and avoid that of course, but then we try and limit the casualties. That is where good modern nuclear generating plant, and practise, comes in!
As for limiting our power use; you know Cem, as I do, that is NOT an option. Mankind must go forward, and dare I say at all costs as we have always done, but now we do really try and limit the risks. ;) ;)
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I hope no..A nuclear power plant is actually a nuclear bomb exploding in a slowed fashion.
You need far more enriched fuels than are used in a reactor to cause a nuclear explosion. It's a bit like saying a log on a fire is the same as a stick of dynamite. There is a fundamental limit to how vigourously the reaction in a nuclear reactor can progress.
Yes, reactors need a functional cooling system to prevent them self-destructing, but what we have seen in Japan is, I believe, that even a 40 year old design can cope with the worst-case scenario without serious consequences.
All energy has dangers and consequences associated with it. We have seen most of them in the events of the last year. Mining is dangerous, drilling for oil is dangerous, the whole middle east where we drill for oil is dangerous at the moment. It's right for us to spread the risks and consequences among all available technologies, including nuclear, IMHO.
Unless we take the other option of going back to live in the trees, of course.. ;)
Kevin
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[Lizzie]
"Firstly Cem, yes I am making comparisons, because both subjects are comparable in terms of mans quest to produce energy and goods to use."
Lizzie, you can compare similiars..
nuclear radiation which is a "negligible" problem in your view unfortunately threats lifes of millions ..so the balance of the weighbridge is already leaning to one side.. :D ;D
[Lizzie]
"History has taught us that man has taken risks every step of the way, and nuclear power is actually a far lesser risk than those taken before in terms of human fatalities."
yeah.. I forgot the wars that capitalist world started just to feed its unlimited appetite :(
[Lizzie]
"The nuclear power generation may be similar to an atom bomb, but it is not the same and is controlled within an environment especially created for it under human and computer control."
........until what.. ?
when all goes pete tong, who you gonna blame.. ? human mistake, design flaw, nature..
do you think Japans cant predict earthquakes or tsunamis ;D ;D
they can.. have you heard of factor of safety ?
if you want to avoid all risks, this factor becomes so big that you will need very immense budgets that no country on earth will accept to spend (they have this much money and technology is another question of course)
[Lizzie]
"An atom bomb, created with weapons grade plutonium to kill millions, goes off in an open, non-controlled environment by way of human command. Thus two very different processes."
Unfortunately, this energy creation process by its nature tends to minimize the difference to 0
[Lizzie]
"has reported that worldwide there have been 99 accidents at nuclear power plants.[4] Fifty-seven accidents have occurred since the Chernobyl disaster, and almost two-thirds (56 out of 99) of all nuclear-related accidents have occurred in the USA. Relatively few accidents involved fatalities.[4]"
Lizzie, neither you nor me were there when these things happen.. and honestly I'not very sure the number of losses reflect the truth..
And besides there are many reasons to cover it..as they did in many events..
[Lizzie]
"I have already mentioned the exceptional case of Chernobyl, with exceptional poor management and materials / design in a failing communist state,"
did you know that it was a "test" procedure and they closed safety systems
[Lizzie]
"but even with that the acttual number of fatalities remains uncertain with wild variations. 4000, or 200,000 if so, is a terrible loss of human life. That is undeniable! But that is what I meant by comparing mans losses in past and today's energy generation, directly or indirectly; the losses of human life can be measured in millions. Mankind takes risks in whatever we do. We try to limit them, but sometimes things go wrong. We try and avoid that of course, but then we try and limit the casualties."
This trial is not sufficient to save people as proven.. And I dont want to trust "trials" for any human life..
That is where good modern nuclear generating plant, and practise, comes in!
yeah.. build it.. practise ..cause deaths , learn and do it again >:( >:(
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I hope no..A nuclear power plant is actually a nuclear bomb exploding in a slowed fashion.
You need far more enriched fuels than are used in a reactor to cause a nuclear explosion. It's a bit like saying a log on a fire is the same as a stick of dynamite. There is a fundamental limit to how vigourously the reaction in a nuclear reactor can progress.
I already knew that.. but results have same fatality..
Yes, reactors need a functional cooling system to prevent them self-destructing, but what we have seen in Japan is, I believe, that even a 40 year old design can cope with the worst-case scenario without serious consequences.
its not a matter of being new or old power plant..
if you check the list you can see that..actually in principle all designs rely on the fact of cooling..you loose that for some reason and BANG..
All energy has dangers and consequences associated with it. We have seen most of them in the events of the last year. Mining is dangerous, drilling for oil is dangerous, the whole middle east where we drill for oil is dangerous at the moment.
this danger is all limited to workers under or around.. but when you leak radiation the clouds can travel thousands of miles and rain on you..
It's right for us to spread the risks and consequences among all available technologies, including nuclear, IMHO.
Unless we take the other option of going back to live in the trees, of course.. ;)
Kevin
No reason to live on trees ;D but honestly you dont need n tv's, n pc's and n house stuff currently working at the same time.. :y
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and my final word on that subject,
sh*t happens and will again.. :(
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No reason to live on trees ;D but honestly you dont need n tv's, n pc's and n house stuff currently working at the same time.. :y
Yes, I think that's a very fair point cem although I would recognise the difficulty for those with children and so on trying to keep energy use under control.
In all probability we may have little choice in the near future but to limit our use of energy or to use it more responsibly however, I think there is little realistic option available in the short to medium term to the continued use of energy derived from nuclear generation.
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No reason to live on trees ;D but honestly you dont need n tv's, n pc's and n house stuff currently working at the same time.. :y
Cem , it's not just a case of TVs, PCs & lightbulbs. Practically everything we do/make/buy/rely upon these days is based upon a consistent supply of electricity: food production, hospitals, schools, factories, transport, communication, etc. And that is not just the case in the filthy "capitalist" West, but throughout the world.
More people died in the Manhatten bus crash last Sunday than have ever died in nuclear accidents in the US! Yes, of course, any loss of life is sad, but we need to learn lessons and press on...not go backwards! ::)
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No reason to live on trees ;D but honestly you dont need n tv's, n pc's and n house stuff currently working at the same time.. :y
Cem , it's not just a case of TVs, PCs & lightbulbs. Practically everything we do/make/buy/rely upon these days is based upon a consistent supply of electricity: food production, hospitals, schools, factories, transport, communication, etc. And that is not just the case in the filthy "capitalist" West, but throughout the world.
More people died in the Manhatten bus crash last Sunday than have ever died in nuclear accidents in the US! Yes, of course, any loss of life is sad, but we need to learn lessons and press on...not go backwards! ::)
Nickbat, traffic accidents dont have the potential of poisoning and killing millions in a day and resulting with abondoned cities and large areas for thousands of years.. And I would really prefer to die quickly in an accident instead of being burned with radiation and suffering in big pain for many days.. :(
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No reason to live on trees ;D but honestly you dont need n tv's, n pc's and n house stuff currently working at the same time.. :y
Cem , it's not just a case of TVs, PCs & lightbulbs. Practically everything we do/make/buy/rely upon these days is based upon a consistent supply of electricity: food production, hospitals, schools, factories, transport, communication, etc. And that is not just the case in the filthy "capitalist" West, but throughout the world.
More people died in the Manhatten bus crash last Sunday than have ever died in nuclear accidents in the US! Yes, of course, any loss of life is sad, but we need to learn lessons and press on...not go backwards! ::)
Nickbat, traffic accidents dont have the potential of poisioning and killing millions in a day and resulting with abondoned cities and large areas for thousands of years.. And I would really prefer to die quickly in an accident instead of being burned with radiation and suffering in big pain for many days.. :(
and since the start of nuclear energy ... just when has this occured ?? Not even Chyrnobel fits that description. Yes there has been a "release" in Japan . but as quoted tonight .. "you could drive past the complex with the window open and you would get a measurable degree of radiation, but it would be about one fifth of the dose you would recieve from a CAT scan."
There are very major differences between what is happening in Japan ... after a VERY major earthquake/tsunami and what occured at Chrynoble .....
Unfortunately the "press" and the "doomsayers" seem to have lost all sense of perspective.
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No reason to live on trees ;D but honestly you dont need n tv's, n pc's and n house stuff currently working at the same time.. :y
Cem , it's not just a case of TVs, PCs & lightbulbs. Practically everything we do/make/buy/rely upon these days is based upon a consistent supply of electricity: food production, hospitals, schools, factories, transport, communication, etc. And that is not just the case in the filthy "capitalist" West, but throughout the world.
More people died in the Manhatten bus crash last Sunday than have ever died in nuclear accidents in the US! Yes, of course, any loss of life is sad, but we need to learn lessons and press on...not go backwards! ::)
Nickbat, traffic accidents dont have the potential of poisioning and killing millions in a day and resulting with abondoned cities and large areas for thousands of years.. And I would really prefer to die quickly in an accident instead of being burned with radiation and suffering in big pain for many days.. :(
and since the start of nuclear energy ... just when has this occured ?? Not even Chyrnobel fits that description. Yes there has been a "release" in Japan . but as quoted tonight .. "you could drive past the complex with the window open and you would get a measurable degree of radiation, but it would be about one fifth of the dose you would recieve from a CAT scan."
There are very major differences between what is happening in Japan ... after a VERY major earthquake/tsunami and what occured at Chrynoble .....
Unfortunately the "press" and the "doomsayers" seem to have lost all sense of perspective.
Chernobyl was an example/lesson of what could happen..
today was in the news that even 800 kms far away in Russia radiation levels were increased..and the radiation poisoned Japans were closed in some places..
is that not enough ?
imo, no need to talk about radioactive wastes that are disposed in some unusual ways..
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No reason to live on trees ;D but honestly you dont need n tv's, n pc's and n house stuff currently working at the same time.. :y
Cem , it's not just a case of TVs, PCs & lightbulbs. Practically everything we do/make/buy/rely upon these days is based upon a consistent supply of electricity: food production, hospitals, schools, factories, transport, communication, etc. And that is not just the case in the filthy "capitalist" West, but throughout the world.
More people died in the Manhatten bus crash last Sunday than have ever died in nuclear accidents in the US! Yes, of course, any loss of life is sad, but we need to learn lessons and press on...not go backwards! ::)
Nickbat, traffic accidents dont have the potential of poisoning and killing millions in a day and resulting with abondoned cities and large areas for thousands of years.. And I would really prefer to die quickly in an accident instead of being burned with radiation and suffering in big pain for many days.. :(
There were no deaths from the Three Mile Island event and only 56 attributable to Chernobyl.
I think you have been reading too much sensationalist press, Cem. ;)
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No reason to live on trees ;D but honestly you dont need n tv's, n pc's and n house stuff currently working at the same time.. :y
Cem , it's not just a case of TVs, PCs & lightbulbs. Practically everything we do/make/buy/rely upon these days is based upon a consistent supply of electricity: food production, hospitals, schools, factories, transport, communication, etc. And that is not just the case in the filthy "capitalist" West, but throughout the world.
More people died in the Manhatten bus crash last Sunday than have ever died in nuclear accidents in the US! Yes, of course, any loss of life is sad, but we need to learn lessons and press on...not go backwards! ::)
Nickbat, traffic accidents dont have the potential of poisoning and killing millions in a day and resulting with abondoned cities and large areas for thousands of years.. And I would really prefer to die quickly in an accident instead of being burned with radiation and suffering in big pain for many days.. :(
There were no deaths from the Three Mile Island event and only 56 attributable to Chernobyl.
I think you have been reading too much sensationalist press, Cem. ;)
what about the fallen babies from pregnant mothers ?
or abnormal births ?
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now dont blame it on the god really ;D :D
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I recommend you to watch the films about the babies conditions, the children after many years..
I wont accept this never ever.. no way..
its a slaughter on human kind.. for what ? >:(
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No reason to live on trees ;D but honestly you dont need n tv's, n pc's and n house stuff currently working at the same time.. :y
Cem , it's not just a case of TVs, PCs & lightbulbs. Practically everything we do/make/buy/rely upon these days is based upon a consistent supply of electricity: food production, hospitals, schools, factories, transport, communication, etc. And that is not just the case in the filthy "capitalist" West, but throughout the world.
More people died in the Manhatten bus crash last Sunday than have ever died in nuclear accidents in the US! Yes, of course, any loss of life is sad, but we need to learn lessons and press on...not go backwards! ::)
Nickbat, traffic accidents dont have the potential of poisoning and killing millions in a day and resulting with abondoned cities and large areas for thousands of years.. And I would really prefer to die quickly in an accident instead of being burned with radiation and suffering in big pain for many days.. :(
There were no deaths from the Three Mile Island event and only 56 attributable to Chernobyl.
I think you have been reading too much sensationalist press, Cem. ;)
what about the fallen babies from pregnant mothers ?
or abnormal births ?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article563521.ece
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No reason to live on trees ;D but honestly you dont need n tv's, n pc's and n house stuff currently working at the same time.. :y
Cem , it's not just a case of TVs, PCs & lightbulbs. Practically everything we do/make/buy/rely upon these days is based upon a consistent supply of electricity: food production, hospitals, schools, factories, transport, communication, etc. And that is not just the case in the filthy "capitalist" West, but throughout the world.
More people died in the Manhatten bus crash last Sunday than have ever died in nuclear accidents in the US! Yes, of course, any loss of life is sad, but we need to learn lessons and press on...not go backwards! ::)
Nickbat, traffic accidents dont have the potential of poisoning and killing millions in a day and resulting with abondoned cities and large areas for thousands of years.. And I would really prefer to die quickly in an accident instead of being burned with radiation and suffering in big pain for many days.. :(
There were no deaths from the Three Mile Island event and only 56 attributable to Chernobyl.
I think you have been reading too much sensationalist press, Cem. ;)
what about the fallen babies from pregnant mothers ?
or abnormal births ?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article563521.ece
Nickbat, I can give many disturbing links and pictures..But prefer not to..
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No reason to live on trees ;D but honestly you dont need n tv's, n pc's and n house stuff currently working at the same time.. :y
Cem , it's not just a case of TVs, PCs & lightbulbs. Practically everything we do/make/buy/rely upon these days is based upon a consistent supply of electricity: food production, hospitals, schools, factories, transport, communication, etc. And that is not just the case in the filthy "capitalist" West, but throughout the world.
More people died in the Manhatten bus crash last Sunday than have ever died in nuclear accidents in the US! Yes, of course, any loss of life is sad, but we need to learn lessons and press on...not go backwards! ::)
Nickbat, traffic accidents dont have the potential of poisoning and killing millions in a day and resulting with abondoned cities and large areas for thousands of years.. And I would really prefer to die quickly in an accident instead of being burned with radiation and suffering in big pain for many days.. :(
There were no deaths from the Three Mile Island event and only 56 attributable to Chernobyl.
I think you have been reading too much sensationalist press, Cem. ;)
what about the fallen babies from pregnant mothers ?
or abnormal births ?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article563521.ece
Nickbat, I can give many disturbing links and pictures..But prefer not to..
Cem, there have always been deformed births, stillborn children, people dying painful deaths from cancer. The fact remains that mankind now lives longer healthier lives than ever before and there are over 400 nuclear installations around the world, with that figure set to double in the next few decades. Do you really want the clock to turn back to the Middle Ages when life expectancy was appallingly low? If you want to "feel" for peoples' distress, then numerically, it's more important to think about those whose bodies have been washed up in their thousands from the tsunami in Japan. I would hazard a guess that the death toll from that will FAR outweigh the radiation figure, ao why the concentration on the nuclear aspect? :-?
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No reason to live on trees ;D but honestly you dont need n tv's, n pc's and n house stuff currently working at the same time.. :y
Cem , it's not just a case of TVs, PCs & lightbulbs. Practically everything we do/make/buy/rely upon these days is based upon a consistent supply of electricity: food production, hospitals, schools, factories, transport, communication, etc. And that is not just the case in the filthy "capitalist" West, but throughout the world.
More people died in the Manhatten bus crash last Sunday than have ever died in nuclear accidents in the US! Yes, of course, any loss of life is sad, but we need to learn lessons and press on...not go backwards! ::)
Nickbat, traffic accidents dont have the potential of poisoning and killing millions in a day and resulting with abondoned cities and large areas for thousands of years.. And I would really prefer to die quickly in an accident instead of being burned with radiation and suffering in big pain for many days.. :(
There were no deaths from the Three Mile Island event and only 56 attributable to Chernobyl.
I think you have been reading too much sensationalist press, Cem. ;)
what about the fallen babies from pregnant mothers ?
or abnormal births ?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article563521.ece
Nickbat, I can give many disturbing links and pictures..But prefer not to..
Cem, there have always been deformed births, stillborn children, people dying painful deaths from cancer. The fact remains that mankind now lives longer healthier lives than ever before and there are over 400 nuclear installations around the world, with that figure set to double in the next few decades.
have you ever seen a study working on short and long term effects ?
Do you really want the clock to turn back to the Middle Ages when life expectancy was appallingly low?
there is no reason to reverse the time.. and there is no reason to poison people and earth where there are many alternatives not finished yet..
If you want to "feel" for peoples' distress, then numerically, it's more important to think about those whose bodies have been washed up in their thousands from the tsunami in Japan. I would hazard a guess that the death toll from that will FAR outweigh the radiation figure, ao why the concentration on the nuclear aspect? :-?
did you know how many abnormal births occur in Turkey (black sea region) close to Russia..The "numbers" (which is really a human but cant define on the pictures :'() abnormally increase..
yep.. Japanese people have big losses because of Tsunami.. But the difference is its not "human made"..
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/quote]
did you know how many abnormal births occur in Turkey (black sea region) close to Russia..The "numbers" (which is really a human but cant define on the pictures :'() abnormally increase..
yep.. Japanese people have big losses because of Tsunami.. But the difference is its not "human made"..
"Big losses" from the tsunami? We are talking many thousands here. Far more than is currently expect from radiation. But I do not understand why you should get so agitated about the difference between many thousand dead from drowning and, as yet, just a handful from something "human made".
::)
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Cem, I think I have made my case already against any panic by the public on the risks of nuclear power generation, and instead going forward to embrace it as it is safer than anything we have done before.
However one final question for you. If nuclear power generation is so risky on a par with a nuclear bomb, why did Japan of all countries decide to embrace it by building large power stations, and continue using them?
After all Japan lost around 210,000 people as a result of the dropping of nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945. Yet they very actively decided to use the nuclear route to generate 60% of their power. They are of course without their own fossil fuels to support alternative means of generation, but they could have imported those fuels. No, they decided that the risks were, and still are so small, that even with their history of 'involvement' with nuclear energy, they still went full steam ahead building the very large, 6 reactor, plant at Fukushima, along with others. ;)
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answer : nuclear power is cheap and so is human life :D
140,000 under quarantine and foreign help groups faced radiation ::) ::) go on...
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I see the total picture as complete irresponsibility..
first let the humans populate as much as they can..
so you can make them work cheaply at your factories.. feed these masses with hormone injected foods.. and what you need extra .. energy.. declare wars to invade the oil fields.. still not enough.. build nuclear power plants to feed all those industries and overpopulated human kind.. Perfect!!!
its like a bad joke really.. if thats how we handle the world, we will see later how it handles us..
why you think so many people is dying from cancer ?remember we pay this with our lifes suffering till death..
looking at an event is one thing , perception and understanding is another .. completely different..
I hope when we grasp and understand whats happening around us, we will quit from being paid organic robots of capitalist system .. :(
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why you think so many people is dying from cancer ?remember we pay this with our lifes suffering till death..
That's simply because they're not dying much earlier in life as a result of poor sanitation, poor diet, poor accommodation, poor healthcare and poor standards of law and order. All things that have been improved by a reliable energy supply and the industrialisation which you seem set against. :-/
Kevin
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and my final words, as I dont want to continue on that subject any more;
the 50 volunteers of the Japanese power plant who continue to work under high radiation.. I salute you.. I wish you will be remembered forever.. :y :y
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I see the total picture as complete irresponsibility..
first let the humans populate as much as they can..
so you can make them work cheaply at your factories.. feed these masses with hormone injected foods.. and what you need extra .. energy.. declare wars to invade the oil fields.. still not enough.. build nuclear power plants to feed all those industries and overpopulated human kind.. Perfect!!!
its like a bad joke really.. if thats how we handle the world, we will see later how it handles us..
why you think so many people is dying from cancer ?remember we pay this with our lifes suffering till death..
looking at an event is one thing , perception and understanding is another .. completely different..
I hope when we grasp and understand whats happening around us, we will quit from being paid organic robots of capitalist system .. :(
So you believe there is a better system than capitalism Cem? What was so good about a communist system? Did Russia especially treat life as more precious than a capitalist system does?
The answer is no, as in the USSR life was considered purely as the means to drive and protect 'the system'. Stalin signed death warrents galour against humble "citizens", and certainly during WW2 killed millions. He blamed the Germans, but his forces shot in the back untold numbers of decent soldiers, and civilians, who did not stand and fight, or disagreed with Stalin's policies. Of the some 56 million killed in WW2, 25 million or so Russians were killed with an untold percentage killed by Stalin's forces! Do not forget either about the Russian Cossacks; yes they served on both the Nazis and Russian 'sides', but at the end of the war Britain handed over between 40-50 thousand of them to Stalin (the infamous Betrayal of the Cossacks!), with a vast percentage of them being subsequently executed or imprisoned. The great purges and "collectivisation's" during the Stalin years also killed millions of Russian citizens.
He also cared so much about other lives outside of the USSR, that he slaughtered tens of thousands of Polish servicemen and civilians, or let them be murdered by the Germans.
Even post Stalin, the USSR did not protect it own people any better, and had many unsafe working practices in the military and industry. Chernobyl was the prime example of that.
So Cem, any argument that the capitalist system, especially in the democratic world, treats human life in a lesser way than communism, or any other know system, for me falls on stoney ground :P :P
In fact in todays world we actually care far more about human life that we ever have before in human history. We have more "safety" features and H&S regulations in all walks of life than we have ever had before. Read history and you soon understand that fact. Cannon fodder was no false discription in the past; the masses were often considered "expendable" in war, let alone industrial life.
The nuclear risks are so small, and effect so few people, that it cannot be compared to the risks of the past for humans. We are safer now than ever before, especially with nuclear energy as oppossed to the fossil fuel processes of the past as I mentioned earlier. :y :y
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Being so far from our comfortable daily-lives, perhaps the individual scale and impact of this multiple tragedy is being lost in discussions of nuclear 'politics'. :'(
I`m certain some-here may wish to join me in contributing toward the Japanese Red Cross` direct-relief efforts 'on the ground'. :y
http://www.jrc.or.jp/english/relief/l4/Vcms4_00002070.html
*Donation via bank-transfer will become immediately available for the Red Cross and will used directly for victims.
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Being so far from our comfortable daily-lives, perhaps the individual scale and impact of this multiple tragedy is being lost in discussions of nuclear 'politics'. :'(
I`m certain some-here may wish to join me in contributing toward the Japanese Red Cross` direct-relief efforts 'on the ground'. :y
http://www.jrc.or.jp/english/relief/l4/Vcms4_00002070.html
*Donation via bank-transfer will become immediately available for the Red Cross and will used directly for victims.
You raise a good point, Debs (though debate is always good) .. indeed my employer is matching 1:1 any contributions made by employees to the Red Cross.
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Good old fashioned British Red-Tape/Health and Safety again! >:(
For goodness` sake, it`s an emergency; isn`t it?!?!?!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12756366
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Good old fashioned British Red-Tape/Health and Safety again! >:(
For goodness` sake, it`s an emergency; isn`t it?!?!?!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12756366
Oh dear Debs!! :o :o :o :o :o What a nonense! ::) ::) ::) >:( >:(
Goes back to my posts to Cem about the "safety" aspect of our lives today, but this in consequence to that is the nonense we all face now! :P :P :P
If the paperwork is not complete, it cannot be done ::) ::) ::)
Did the great builders of the British Empire worry about such things when travelling to other countries to build great projects and do British business? Of course not, but in the modern age we have to make sure even our shadows have the right clearance to move! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Makes me soooooo angry!! >:( >:( >:( >:(
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"While France urged its nationals in Tokyo to leave the country or move south, the UK has said there is no need for Britons to evacuate areas outside the current exclusion zone"
;D
I'm sure Lizzie you will drink your tea calmly when the nearby nuclear power plant explodes ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :y
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"While France urged its nationals in Tokyo to leave the country or move south, the UK has said there is no need for Britons to evacuate areas outside the current exclusion zone"
;D
I'm sure Lizzie you will drink your tea calmly when the nearby nuclear power plant explodes ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :y
It will re-heat itself in the cup right in front of you. ;D
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"While France urged its nationals in Tokyo to leave the country or move south, the UK has said there is no need for Britons to evacuate areas outside the current exclusion zone"
;D
I'm sure Lizzie you will drink your tea calmly when the nearby nuclear power plant explodes ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :y
Yes, I probably would in true British tradition!! :D :D :D ;) That is what "we" do when it is pointless panicking and there is little you can do about a given situation 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)
I always said during the cold war, and my family all agreed, if the bombs started to drop we would just pray for a quick end! :y :y
But the fact is Cem, according to nuclear experts talking here, there is no chance of some form of massive atomic explosion in Japan. Yes any fallout is worrying, and that could still reach "dangerous" levels, but there will be no atomic bomb going off ;) ;) ;)
So relax Cem, join the British in having a nice cup of tea! We have no-where to run to, so we do not run! :D :D :D ;)
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..................and Cem if you have not seen it before, this is what I mean! Us British are really like this you know........ ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxX7YW_97QU[/media]
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
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..................and Cem if you have not seen it before, this is what I mean! Us British are really like this you know........ ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxX7YW_97QU[/media]
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
;D...... :y
We British are feeling the pinch in relation to recent terrorist threats and have raised our security level from "Miffed" to "Peeved." Soon though, security levels may be raised yet again to "Irritated" or even "A Bit Cross." Londoners have not been "A Bit Cross" since the blitz in 1940 when tea supplies all but ran out. Terrorists have been re-categorised from "Tiresome" to a "Bloody Nuisance." The last time the British issued a "Bloody Nuisance" warning level was during the great fire of 1666.
Also, the French government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror alert level from "Run" to "Hide." The only two higher levels in France are "Surrender" and "Collaborate." The rise was precipitated by a recent fire that destroyed France's white flag factory, effectively paralysing the country's military capability.
It's not only the English and French that are on a heightened level of alert. Italy has increased the alert level from "Shout Loudly and Excitedly" to "Elaborate Military Posturing." Two more levels remain: "Ineffective Combat Operations" and "Change Sides."
The Germans also increased their alert state from "Disdainful Arrogance" to "Dress in Uniform and Sing Marching Songs." They also have two higher levels: "Invade a Neighbour" and "Lose."
Belgians, on the other hand, are all on holiday as usual, and the only threat they are worried about is NATO pulling out of Brussels.
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Some facts and background information :
[1] In Chernobyl, the nuclear reaction was left to operate at 100% of capacity after a failure, relied on a graphite control rod design from 1942 which is not used any more, and did not house the reactor inside a containment vessel. In Fukushima, immediate steps were taken to bring the reaction under control. Sometime in between the earthquake and the tsunami (perhaps only 90 seconds after the earthquake), sensors automatically injected control rods filled with boron into the reactor vessel, immediately reducing the power of the nuclear reaction to roughly 3% of its original level. Furthermore, the Fukushima reactor vessels are housed inside concrete containment units.
[2] What remains is the challenge of bringing the residual 3% reaction under control. Given the power of nuclear energy, even at 3% of its original level, it needs to be cooled further. Japan appears to have suffered a considerable failure regarding back-up generators needed to both circulate cooling water through the containment units, and ventilate the buildings of hydrogen build-up. Where does the hydrogen come from? Vaporized water converts to very high volumes of steam, which at high temperatures can separate back into hydrogen and oxygen. Hydrogen is highly combustible, even at only 2% concentrations.
[3] The failure of the diesel generators, are primarily a result of the tsunami washing away their fuel storage tanks, rather than from flooding which disabled the generators themselves. At most US nuclear plants, diesel fuel storage tanks are either buried underground, or located within a structure designed to handle an earthquake or flood. In Japan this appears not to be the case; they were above ground, adjacent to the beach, and not well protected. It is amazing to think that inland US nuclear power plants are more flood-proof than their Japanese counterparts. With the failure of the electrical systems, hydrogen has not been venting, and appears to have resulted in the explosions at 3 buildings. In one building, an explosion/fire may have damaged the concrete containment unit, or the concrete “suppression chamber” which helps reduce pressure/heat from the reactor.
[4] The critical objective is to inject water inside the containment unit (which houses the reactor vessel). While exposure of uranium/plutonium rods to air inside the reactor vessel increases the risk that the rods melt, as long as the reactor vessel is not breached and sufficient water is available, the process can eventually be cooled. The next 72 hours are critical.
[5] As for nuclear power more broadly, when the book is written, the failure of the Fukushima systems design will play as prominent a role as the earthquake and tsunami itself. There is no question that one of the 5 most powerful earthquakes on record (which forced the North American tectonic plate eastward by 66 feet), combined with 6-meter tsunami waves, creates a terrifying and formidable obstacle for energy facilities. But considering how well facilities whose backup power did not fail are doing, design flaws regarding fuel storage tanks (and perhaps very basic ones) are likely to be part of the aftermath. The chart shows how Japan’s nuclear efficiency (measured by its capacity factor) is among the lowest in the world. This may be a partial indication of Japan’s design, maintenance and engineering inadequacies compared to other countries, which use different models, electrical system redundancies and protocols.
What now for Japan?
``What has so often excited wonder, is the great rapidity with which countries recover from a state of devastation, the disappearance in a short time, of all traces of mischief done by earthquakes, floods, hurricanes, and the ravages of war. An enemy lays waste a country by fire and sword, and destroys or carries away nearly all the moveable wealth existing in it: all the inhabitants are ruined, and yet in a few years after, everything is much as it was before.”
John Stuart Mill, Principles of Political Economy, 1848
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..................and Cem if you have not seen it before, this is what I mean! Us British are really like this you know........ ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxX7YW_97QU[/media]
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
;D...... :y
We British are feeling the pinch in relation to recent terrorist threats and have raised our security level from "Miffed" to "Peeved." Soon though, security levels may be raised yet again to "Irritated" or even "A Bit Cross." Londoners have not been "A Bit Cross" since the blitz in 1940 when tea supplies all but ran out. Terrorists have been re-categorised from "Tiresome" to a "Bloody Nuisance." The last time the British issued a "Bloody Nuisance" warning level was during the great fire of 1666.
Also, the French government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror alert level from "Run" to "Hide." The only two higher levels in France are "Surrender" and "Collaborate." The rise was precipitated by a recent fire that destroyed France's white flag factory, effectively paralysing the country's military capability.
It's not only the English and French that are on a heightened level of alert. Italy has increased the alert level from "Shout Loudly and Excitedly" to "Elaborate Military Posturing." Two more levels remain: "Ineffective Combat Operations" and "Change Sides."
The Germans also increased their alert state from "Disdainful Arrogance" to "Dress in Uniform and Sing Marching Songs." They also have two higher levels: "Invade a Neighbour" and "Lose."
Belgians, on the other hand, are all on holiday as usual, and the only threat they are worried about is NATO pulling out of Brussels.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :y :y
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Some facts and background information :
[1] In Chernobyl, the nuclear reaction was left to operate at 100% of capacity after a failure, relied on a graphite control rod design from 1942 which is not used any more, and did not house the reactor inside a containment vessel. In Fukushima, immediate steps were taken to bring the reaction under control. Sometime in between the earthquake and the tsunami (perhaps only 90 seconds after the earthquake), sensors automatically injected control rods filled with boron into the reactor vessel, immediately reducing the power of the nuclear reaction to roughly 3% of its original level. Furthermore, the Fukushima reactor vessels are housed inside concrete containment units.
[2] What remains is the challenge of bringing the residual 3% reaction under control. Given the power of nuclear energy, even at 3% of its original level, it needs to be cooled further. Japan appears to have suffered a considerable failure regarding back-up generators needed to both circulate cooling water through the containment units, and ventilate the buildings of hydrogen build-up. Where does the hydrogen come from? Vaporized water converts to very high volumes of steam, which at high temperatures can separate back into hydrogen and oxygen. Hydrogen is highly combustible, even at only 2% concentrations.
[3] The failure of the diesel generators, are primarily a result of the tsunami washing away their fuel storage tanks, rather than from flooding which disabled the generators themselves. At most US nuclear plants, diesel fuel storage tanks are either buried underground, or located within a structure designed to handle an earthquake or flood. In Japan this appears not to be the case; they were above ground, adjacent to the beach, and not well protected. It is amazing to think that inland US nuclear power plants are more flood-proof than their Japanese counterparts. With the failure of the electrical systems, hydrogen has not been venting, and appears to have resulted in the explosions at 3 buildings. In one building, an explosion/fire may have damaged the concrete containment unit, or the concrete “suppression chamber” which helps reduce pressure/heat from the reactor.
[4] The critical objective is to inject water inside the containment unit (which houses the reactor vessel). While exposure of uranium/plutonium rods to air inside the reactor vessel increases the risk that the rods melt, as long as the reactor vessel is not breached and sufficient water is available, the process can eventually be cooled. The next 72 hours are critical.
[5] As for nuclear power more broadly, when the book is written, the failure of the Fukushima systems design will play as prominent a role as the earthquake and tsunami itself. There is no question that one of the 5 most powerful earthquakes on record (which forced the North American tectonic plate eastward by 66 feet), combined with 6-meter tsunami waves, creates a terrifying and formidable obstacle for energy facilities. But considering how well facilities whose backup power did not fail are doing, design flaws regarding fuel storage tanks (and perhaps very basic ones) are likely to be part of the aftermath. The chart shows how Japan’s nuclear efficiency (measured by its capacity factor) is among the lowest in the world. This may be a partial indication of Japan’s design, maintenance and engineering inadequacies compared to other countries, which use different models, electrical system redundancies and protocols.
What now for Japan?
``What has so often excited wonder, is the great rapidity with which countries recover from a state of devastation, the disappearance in a short time, of all traces of mischief done by earthquakes, floods, hurricanes, and the ravages of war. An enemy lays waste a country by fire and sword, and destroys or carries away nearly all the moveable wealth existing in it: all the inhabitants are ruined, and yet in a few years after, everything is much as it was before.”
John Stuart Mill, Principles of Political Economy, 1848
Very good info P! :y :y :y :y :y
I think you may mean 1952, not 1942, though? :-/ :-/ ;) ;)
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..................and Cem if you have not seen it before, this is what I mean! Us British are really like this you know........ ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxX7YW_97QU[/media]
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
ah yes, typical ;D ;D ;D
pity nowadays we bleat about the least little inconvenience :( :(
i blame the Daily Mail personally, someone should just slap them when they get hysterical :y
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We British are feeling the pinch in relation to recent terrorist threats and have raised our security level from "Miffed" to "Peeved." Soon though, security levels may be raised yet again to "Irritated" or even "A Bit Cross." Londoners have not been "A Bit Cross" since the blitz in 1940 when tea supplies all but ran out. Terrorists have been re-categorised from "Tiresome" to a "Bloody Nuisance." The last time the British issued a "Bloody Nuisance" warning level was during the great fire of 1666.
Also, the French government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror alert level from "Run" to "Hide." The only two higher levels in France are "Surrender" and "Collaborate." The rise was precipitated by a recent fire that destroyed France's white flag factory, effectively paralysing the country's military capability.
It's not only the English and French that are on a heightened level of alert. Italy has increased the alert level from "Shout Loudly and Excitedly" to "Elaborate Military Posturing." Two more levels remain: "Ineffective Combat Operations" and "Change Sides."
The Germans also increased their alert state from "Disdainful Arrogance" to "Dress in Uniform and Sing Marching Songs." They also have two higher levels: "Invade a Neighbour" and "Lose."
Belgians, on the other hand, are all on holiday as usual, and the only threat they are worried about is NATO pulling out of Brussels.
Absolutely splendid. 8-) 8-) :y
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..................and Cem if you have not seen it before, this is what I mean! Us British are really like this you know........ ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxX7YW_97QU[/media]
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
Exactly ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :y
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Loyalty?!?!......"We wouldn`t know the meaning of the word!" :-*
From the source:
You don't have to speak Japanese to understand the sympathetic tones of the two men observing these dogs who are also disaster victims -- and one loyal dog refusing to leave his hurt friend's side. There is so much we don't understand about the emotional lives of animals. But we know they can suffer tremendously, and we know they care for each other.
We wish all the people and animals of Japan heartfelt concern during this incomprehensibly difficult time. We know that the people of Japan will respond like these two friends, never abandoning each other in this time of need. Ganbatte kudasai! ("Don't give up!")
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=794_1300315026
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Loyalty?!?!......"We wouldn`t know the meaning of the word!" :-*
From the source:
You don't have to speak Japanese to understand the sympathetic tones of the two men observing these dogs who are also disaster victims -- and one loyal dog refusing to leave his hurt friend's side. There is so much we don't understand about the emotional lives of animals. But we know they can suffer tremendously, and we know they care for each other.
We wish all the people and animals of Japan heartfelt concern during this incomprehensibly difficult time. We know that the people of Japan will respond like these two friends, never abandoning each other in this time of need. Ganbatte kudasai! ("Don't give up!")
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=794_1300315026
I held out quite well up to the point at the end where the two faces came into shot - that did for me.
The conduct of the Japanese people in general and, specifically, of those people directly affected by this devastating tragedy has been impressive - but more importantly, it has been humbling.
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Grin...... Thumbs Up!
We British are feeling the pinch in relation to recent terrorist threats and have raised our security level from "Miffed" to "Peeved." Soon though, security levels may be raised yet again to "Irritated" or even "A Bit Cross." Londoners have not been "A Bit Cross" since the blitz in 1940 when tea supplies all but ran out. Terrorists have been re-categorised from "Tiresome" to a "Bloody Nuisance." The last time the British issued a "Bloody Nuisance" warning level was during the great fire of 1666.
Also, the French government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror alert level from "Run" to "Hide." The only two higher levels in France are "Surrender" and "Collaborate." The rise was precipitated by a recent fire that destroyed France's white flag factory, effectively paralysing the country's military capability.
It's not only the English and French that are on a heightened level of alert. Italy has increased the alert level from "Shout Loudly and Excitedly" to "Elaborate Military Posturing." Two more levels remain: "Ineffective Combat Operations" and "Change Sides."
The Germans also increased their alert state from "Disdainful Arrogance" to "Dress in Uniform and Sing Marching Songs." They also have two higher levels: "Invade a Neighbour" and "Lose."
Belgians, on the other hand, are all on holiday as usual, and the only threat they are worried about is NATO pulling out of Brussels.
Back to top
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y
bravo old chap bravo
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latest news: ther reactor is completely out of control..
reactor temperatures exceed 2200 Celcius.. As I understand from news only some hours are left for it to be Chernobyl II :'(
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latest news: ther reactor is completely out of control..
reactor temperatures exceed 2200 Celcius.. As I understand from news only some hours are left for it to be Chernobyl II :'(
Got a link to that, Cem? The latest information I can find suggests that the situation may be approaching a full meltdown but that a) they are close to restoring power to the cooling pumps and b) the international atomic commission is telling everyone that no matter how bad this gets, it could not be anywhere near as bad as Chernobyl.
For a start, as I understand it, the control rods are at least partially inserted in Fukushima, while in Chernobyl there were no safety systems active at all as they'd been effectively bypassed and all warnings were ignored (thanks to the wonderful Communist era disregard for human life vs. cheap energy) - not to mention a number of years difference in plant design and the fact that, even in optimum conditions, the design of the RMBK-1000 reactors used at Chernobyl had some serious deficiences.
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latest news: ther reactor is completely out of control..
reactor temperatures exceed 2200 Celcius.. As I understand from news only some hours are left for it to be Chernobyl II :'(
Got a link to that, Cem? The latest information I can find suggests that the situation may be approaching a full meltdown but that a) they are close to restoring power to the cooling pumps and b) the international atomic commission is telling everyone that no matter how bad this gets, it could not be anywhere near as bad as Chernobyl.
For a start, as I understand it, the control rods are at least partially inserted in Fukushima, while in Chernobyl there were no safety systems active at all as they'd been effectively bypassed and all warnings were ignored (thanks to the wonderful Communist era disregard for human life vs. cheap energy) - not to mention a number of years difference in plant design and the fact that, even in optimum conditions, the design of the RMBK-1000 reactors used at Chernobyl had some serious deficiences.
optimism is to be able to say nice things when there is an axe inserted in your head ;D ;D ;D
international 'dangle berries' talking comission is telling porkies as usual >:( >:( >:(
and yes there is no radiation leak, in fact there is no nuclear power plant ;D :y
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Or, you could just call me a skeptic ;)
2200C is well above the melting point of Uranium, so the fuel would have long since melted into a pool at the bottom of the reactor.. Now while it may have done that, the number looks unreasonably high to me - by 2200C the steel and concrete in the containment vessel would have melted and/or reached flash point and caught fire..
2200F is more likely - which, coincidentally, is the exact number used as the design assumption for the melting point of Uranium .. the fact that it so precisely matches makes me wonder where the figure came from.
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Getting away from the reactor situation for a moment, I am really surprised that more effort is not being made to reach the survivors who are out in the cold or hopitalised in the north of the country.
I think it goes to show just how fragile our infrastructure really is.
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Getting away from the reactor situation for a moment, I am really surprised that more effort is not being made to reach the survivors who are out in the cold or hopitalised in the north of the country.
I think it goes to show just how fragile our infrastructure really is.
Very true - once you've washed the roads away 'we' (modern humans, I mean) suddenly find it very hard to get around..
Although considering the amount of military hardware sitting around not far away, it's a great shame more helicopters and so on aren't flying around :(
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Or, you could just call me a skeptic ;)
2200C is well above the melting point of Uranium, so the fuel would have long since melted into a pool at the bottom of the reactor.. Now while it may have done that, the number looks unreasonably high to me - by 2200C the steel and concrete in the containment vessel would have melted and/or reached flash point and caught fire..
2200F is more likely - which, coincidentally, is the exact number used as the design assumption for the melting point of Uranium .. the fact that it so precisely matches makes me wonder where the figure came from.
http://www.news.com.au/world/magnitude-quake-strikes-japan/story-e6frfkyi-1226019903430
( a bit long)
"4.04am IAEA secretary general Yukiya Amano said in a press conference he plans to go to Japan as early as tomorrow and urged Japan to provide better information to the agency.
"There are too many elements that we do not know yet. So it is too early for us to pass judgement on their efforts," - Yukiya Amano
He did confirm that[size=12] core damage had occurred to three units at the stricken Fukushima nuclear plant. [/size]
"The situation ... is very serious."
let me translate.. "We are in deep sh*t and dont know what to do" :D
as for 2200 celcius (4000F), source :Kyodo News.. just google..
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Or, you could just call me a skeptic ;)
2200C is well above the melting point of Uranium, so the fuel would have long since melted into a pool at the bottom of the reactor.. Now while it may have done that, the number looks unreasonably high to me - by 2200C the steel and concrete in the containment vessel would have melted and/or reached flash point and caught fire..
2200F is more likely - which, coincidentally, is the exact number used as the design assumption for the melting point of Uranium .. the fact that it so precisely matches makes me wonder where the figure came from.
http://www.news.com.au/world/magnitude-quake-strikes-japan/story-e6frfkyi-1226019903430
( a bit long)
"4.04am IAEA secretary general Yukiya Amano said in a press conference he plans to go to Japan as early as tomorrow and urged Japan to provide better information to the agency.
"There are too many elements that we do not know yet. So it is too early for us to pass judgement on their efforts," - Yukiya Amano
He did confirm that[size=12] core damage had occurred to three units at the stricken Fukushima nuclear plant. [/size]
"The situation ... is very serious."
let me translate.. "We are in deep sh*t and dont know what to do" :D
Your English gets better when you are passionate. ;D
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Or, you could just call me a skeptic ;)
2200C is well above the melting point of Uranium, so the fuel would have long since melted into a pool at the bottom of the reactor.. Now while it may have done that, the number looks unreasonably high to me - by 2200C the steel and concrete in the containment vessel would have melted and/or reached flash point and caught fire..
2200F is more likely - which, coincidentally, is the exact number used as the design assumption for the melting point of Uranium .. the fact that it so precisely matches makes me wonder where the figure came from.
http://www.news.com.au/world/magnitude-quake-strikes-japan/story-e6frfkyi-1226019903430
( a bit long)
"4.04am IAEA secretary general Yukiya Amano said in a press conference he plans to go to Japan as early as tomorrow and urged Japan to provide better information to the agency.
"There are too many elements that we do not know yet. So it is too early for us to pass judgement on their efforts," - Yukiya Amano
He did confirm that[size=12] core damage had occurred to three units at the stricken Fukushima nuclear plant. [/size]
"The situation ... is very serious."
let me translate.. "We are in deep sh*t and dont know what to do" :D
Your English gets better when you are passionate. ;D
;D ;D means my brain upshifts the gear ;D :y
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I guess I'm not googling right, because I can't find an article that references the core temperature anywhere.
I did find this, though: http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/79046.html
The following is the known status as of Thursday night of each of the six reactors at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant and the four reactors at the Fukushima No. 2 plant, both in Fukushima Prefecture, which were crippled by Friday's magnitude 9.0 earthquake and the ensuing tsunami.
Fukushima No. 1 plant
-- Reactor No. 1 - Operation suspended after quake, cooling failure, partial melting of core, vapor vented, building housing reactor damaged Saturday by hydrogen explosion, seawater being pumped in.
-- Reactor No. 2 - Operation suspended after quake, cooling failure, seawater being pumped in, fuel rods fully exposed temporarily, vapor vented, building housing reactor damaged Monday by blast at reactor No. 3, damage to containment vessel feared, potential meltdown feared.
-- Reactor No. 3 - Operation suspended after quake, cooling failure, partial melting of core feared, vapor vented, seawater being pumped in, building housing reactor damaged Monday by hydrogen explosion, high-level radiation measured nearby on Tuesday, plume of smoke observed Wednesday and presumed to have come from spent-fuel storage pool, severe damage to containment vessel unlikely, seawater dumped over pool by helicopter on Thursday, water sprayed at it from ground.
-- Reactor No. 4 - Under maintenance when quake struck, fire Tuesday possibly caused by hydrogen explosion at pool holding spent fuel rods, abnormal temperature rise in spent-fuel storage pool, fire observed Wednesday at building housing reactor, pool water level feared receding, renewed nuclear chain reaction feared.
-- Reactors No. 5, 6 - Under maintenance when quake struck, water temperatures in spent-fuel storage pools increased to about 64 C on Thursday.
-- Spent-fuel storage pools at all reactors -- Cooling functions lost, water temperatures or levels unobservable at reactors No. 1 to 4.
Fukushima No. 2 plant
-- Reactors No. 1, 2, 4 - Operation suspended after quake, cooling failure, then cold shutdown.
-- Reactor No. 3 - Operation suspended after quake, cold shutdown.
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Late this afternoon UK nuclear power experts were saying the good news was today, for the first time, there had been no change in the situation with radiation levels outside the 80km zone at acceptable, almost normal levels, with Tokyo at normal, SAFE, levels. Only around the plant itself are levels higher, but are being contained so far! There are also more International organisations assisting and monitoring the situation now, who are also saying about today showing no change in the radiation levels.
So stop panicking! ::) ::) ::) :D :D ;)
What will be will be, so just pray for the Japanese who have lost almost everything, whilst others, looks like around 15,000, have lost everying including their lives! :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
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I guess I'm not googling right, because I can't find an article that references the core temperature anywhere.
I did find this, though: http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/03/79046.html
The following is the known status as of Thursday night of each of the six reactors at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant and the four reactors at the Fukushima No. 2 plant, both in Fukushima Prefecture, which were crippled by Friday's magnitude 9.0 earthquake and the ensuing tsunami.
Fukushima No. 1 plant
-- Reactor No. 1 - Operation suspended after quake, cooling failure, partial melting of core, vapor vented, building housing reactor damaged Saturday by hydrogen explosion, seawater being pumped in.
-- Reactor No. 2 - Operation suspended after quake, cooling failure, seawater being pumped in, fuel rods fully exposed temporarily, vapor vented, building housing reactor damaged Monday by blast at reactor No. 3, damage to containment vessel feared, potential meltdown feared.
-- Reactor No. 3 - Operation suspended after quake, cooling failure, partial melting of core feared, vapor vented, seawater being pumped in, building housing reactor damaged Monday by hydrogen explosion, high-level radiation measured nearby on Tuesday, plume of smoke observed Wednesday and presumed to have come from spent-fuel storage pool, severe damage to containment vessel unlikely, seawater dumped over pool by helicopter on Thursday, water sprayed at it from ground.
-- Reactor No. 4 - Under maintenance when quake struck, fire Tuesday possibly caused by hydrogen explosion at pool holding spent fuel rods, abnormal temperature rise in spent-fuel storage pool, fire observed Wednesday at building housing reactor, pool water level feared receding, renewed nuclear chain reaction feared.
-- Reactors No. 5, 6 - Under maintenance when quake struck, water temperatures in spent-fuel storage pools increased to about 64 C on Thursday.
-- Spent-fuel storage pools at all reactors -- Cooling functions lost, water temperatures or levels unobservable at reactors No. 1 to 4.
Fukushima No. 2 plant
-- Reactors No. 1, 2, 4 - Operation suspended after quake, cooling failure, then cold shutdown.
-- Reactor No. 3 - Operation suspended after quake, cold shutdown.
at 1200 Celcius, hydrogen gases occur because of etc etc and explode , this was 2-3 days ago..
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All Fukushima Daini units now in cold shutdown. No known radiation deaths. :y
http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/IT-All_Fukushima_Daini_units_in_cold_shutdown-1503114.html
Time for the mainstream media to move on and find a new story that they can exaggerate to cause panic and worry. ::) ::)
Footnote from Lewis Page (journalist)
As one who earns his living in the media these days, I can only apologise on behalf of my profession for the unbelievable levels of fear and misinformation purveyed this week. I have never been so ashamed to call myself a journalist. :y
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/18/fukushima_friday/page3.html
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Nickbat, media is not completely reflecting the truth.. you have right .. but its worse.. few minutes ago an expert talked and said, although level 5 is announced its actually 7 now.. why do proud Japan govt ask help from Usa.. ::)
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:o Nick, I`d dearly love to believe that story; but Japanese State broadcaster NHK, are reporting it in VERY less reassuring tones......so, I`ll be trusting their reportage. ;)
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/
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:o Nick, I`d dearly love to believe that story; but Japanese State broadcaster NHK, are reporting it in VERY less reassuring tones......so, I`ll be trusting their reportage. ;)
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/
It was the Daini reactors that have achied cold shutdown. The Daiichi reactors 3 & 4 are still troublesome.
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Nickbat, media is not completely reflecting the truth.. you have right .. but its worse.. few minutes ago an expert talked and said, although level 5 is announced its actually 7 now.. why do proud Japan govt ask help from Usa.. ::)
There's always an expert about, Cem.
"The worst-case scenario would be where you have the fission products in stored canisters or in the reactors being released," said Professor Malcolm Sperrin, director of medical physics and clinical engineering at Royal Berkshire Hospital, UK.
"Radiation levels would then be very high around the plant, which is not to say they'd reach the general public.
"And we're definitely not in the situation where we're going to see another Chernobyl - that possibility has long gone."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12789749
:y
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:o Nick, I`d dearly love to believe that story; but Japanese State broadcaster NHK, are reporting it in VERY less reassuring tones......so, I`ll be trusting their reportage. ;)
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/
It was the Daini reactors that have achied cold shutdown. The Daiichi reactors 3 & 4 are still troublesome.
:-[ Indeed! :y
....and, I`m an idiot for not seeing that! ;D
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:o Nick, I`d dearly love to believe that story; but Japanese State broadcaster NHK, are reporting it in VERY less reassuring tones......so, I`ll be trusting their reportage. ;)
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/
It was the Daini reactors that have achied cold shutdown. The Daiichi reactors 3 & 4 are still troublesome.
:-[ Indeed! :y
....and, I`m an idiot for not seeing that! ;D
No, Debs, I'm the idiot for not being clear!! ;) :-[ :y
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Nickbat, media is not completely reflecting the truth.. you have right .. but its worse.. few minutes ago an expert talked and said, although level 5 is announced its actually 7 now.. why do proud Japan govt ask help from Usa.. ::)
There's always an expert about, Cem.
"The worst-case scenario would be where you have the fission products in stored canisters or in the reactors being released," said Professor Malcolm Sperrin, director of medical physics and clinical engineering at Royal Berkshire Hospital, UK.
"Radiation levels would then be very high around the plant, which is not to say they'd reach the general public.
"And we're definitely not in the situation where we're going to see another Chernobyl - that possibility has long gone."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12789749
:y
does he also say the situation is now under control.. ;)
nuclear power is an area where so many unknowns fall down when you loose the control.. did you hear the nuclear particles has reached US west shores ? (although radiation levels are low)
I'n sure all of us are waiting god news but not porkies :y
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does he also say the situation is now under control.. ;)
nuclear power is an area where so many unknowns fall down when you loose the control.. did you hear the nuclear particles has reached US west shores ? (although radiation levels are low)
I'n sure all of us are waiting god news but not porkies :y
Yes they have registered particles in the US, but in absolutley minute amounts. People in SW England are exposed to far higher radiation levels from natural sources!
Indeed, I just read this:
It has been estimated that 17 million were exposed to significant radiation after Chernobyl and nearly 2,000 people have since developed thyroid cancer having consumed contaminated food and milk as children.
This is very serious, but nothing like the impact that had been expected, and a UN report identified psychological problems as the major consequence for health.
The perception of the extreme risk of radiation exposure is also somewhat contradicted by the experience of 87,000 survivors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, who have been followed up for their whole lives.
By 1992, over 40,000 had died, but it has been estimated that only 690 of those deaths were due to the radiation. Again, the psychological effects were major.
Radiation does, however, feel acceptable when used in benign circumstances such as medical imaging. You can pay £100 ($160) and get a whole-body CT scan as part of a medical check-up, but it can deliver you a dose equivalent to being 1.5 miles from the centre of the Hiroshima explosion.
Because more than 70 million CT scans are carried out each year, the US National Cancer Institute has estimated that 29,000 Americans will get cancer as a result of the CT scans they received in 2007 alone.
:o :o
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/world-asia-pacific-12785274
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With everything else going on it is too easy to forget the Japanese disaster and move on.
But now [size=20]9,000[/size] deaths have been confirmed, and a further [size=24]12,000[/size] are still missing!
I think we all knew the situation was very bad when we first saw the TV pictures, and deaths would be high. But it is no less shocking now to see the figures!
RIP to all who died, but God bless those that are left :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
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In an effort to try and remind myself to be thankful for what I have and quit feeling sorry for myself: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12813630
:'(
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I was in Japan in September, just scanning through my pictures now to remind me what it should be like! :'(
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I was in Japan in September, just scanning through my pictures now to remind me what it should be like! :'(
I was there last Feb too - as I said to a Japanese colleague (who is in Tokyo); I imagine if I went back there right now I wouldn't recognise it as the same place (even in Tokyo, from all accounts)
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I was in Japan in September, just scanning through my pictures now to remind me what it should be like! :'(
I was there last Feb too - as I said to a Japanese colleague (who is in Tokyo); I imagine if I went back there right now I wouldn't recognise it as the same place (even in Tokyo, from all accounts)
Its going to be years before its the same again, for me it makes it all the more real, the live news broadcasts from Tokyo, I recognise the small details, the way they hang posters from tube trains, the style of the streets, cabs, the stations. All looks familiar :(
You know how Tokyo has a 7 eleven about every 50 feet, its scary to think they are all sold out as reports are suggesting :o
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Yup, Takuya (the colleague I mentioned) posted pictures on Facebook of his local supermarket - empty shelves as far as you could see.. Apparently as soon as food appeared, it disappeared - as he says, people 'should' be saving food for those in the most disaster stricken areas, but they're not; everyone is panic buying food & petrol :-/
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-12860842
At last .. a voice of reason .. :)
Unfortunately .. those with their own agendas will probably ignore both the tone and the facts as presented.... and attempt to argue with some speculative, unproved "what ifs"
Never let the truth get in the way of a scary headline ......
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http://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/2011/03/28/letters-from-fukushima-tepco-worker-emails/
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http://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/2011/03/28/letters-from-fukushima-tepco-worker-emails/
so sad..