Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: tidla on 28 March 2011, 19:32:40

Title: rock and a hard place, missing parcels
Post by: tidla on 28 March 2011, 19:32:40
a follow on from this,

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1300482300

royal mail said "its signed for, and the driver cannot remember.

ebay have sided with the seller as" he has proof of delivery"

the police dont want to know unless contacted by the royal mail , something about being a civil matter.

£150 item sent recorded, i believe even going thru a royal mail claim process the max payout is £41?

the case has been ecalated to the postal review panel, i am expecting the same lack of effort response.

other that knocking on all the neighbours door bearing a shotgun..

what else can i do??

Title: Re: rock and a hard place, missing parcels
Post by: bigegg on 28 March 2011, 19:39:36
do you have the seller's address?

if so, letter asking for full reimbursement, or you will take him to court in "14 days" - give a date.
on that date - small claims court

can be done online.

chances are he will pay up as soon as he gets the summons.
pretty much an open and shut case as he sent it by an unsuitable method.
You have the signature?
and it's not yours?

it's down to balance of probabilities - it's just a matter of who the judge believes.
and since it was sent by an insecre method...
Title: Re: rock and a hard place, missing parcels
Post by: bigegg on 28 March 2011, 19:41:57
ps.
the seller has the contract with royal mail, not you - so it's up to him to chase RM for his £41
Title: Re: rock and a hard place, missing parcels
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 28 March 2011, 19:52:35
Quote
a follow on from this,

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1300482300

royal mail said "its signed for, and the driver cannot remember.

ebay have sided with the seller as" he has proof of delivery"

the police dont want to know unless contacted by the royal mail , something about being a civil matter.

£150 item sent recorded, i believe even going thru a royal mail claim process the max payout is £41?

the case has been ecalated to the postal review panel, i am expecting the same lack of effort response.

other that knocking on all the neighbours door bearing a shotgun..

what else can i do??


Sounds like postie signed for it.....and its been nicked of your doorstep....  :(
Title: Re: rock and a hard place, missing parcels
Post by: Danny on 28 March 2011, 19:56:59
there is a loophole but before i go into that...

have you asked Royal Mail for a copy of the signature? i'm pretty certain this MUST be made available to you on request even if it's not apparently available online, RING THE LOCAL OFFICE ON A DAILY BASIS, give them grief (in a nice way!)

have you asked the seller to confirm the address the package was sent to??

was the listing clear that the shipping method would only be recorded delivery?

The loophole is basically that if you agreed that recorded delivery was sufficient, then £41 is all royal mail would be likely to pay out

The seller would have to make the claim as they will have the proof of postage, and they will only be obliged to refund you once Royal mail have refunded him, and that again may only be up to £41

I would suggest (to anyone actually) when buying anything of any value, request in advance of purchase that the seller uses Special Delivery to send it, even if it means you pay a little extra postage
Title: Re: rock and a hard place, missing parcels
Post by: tidla on 28 March 2011, 20:33:41
yes i have seen the signature and the delivery address from the tracking code on line.
yes its stated that postage is 1st class recorded, which when purchasing didnt realise it meant jack all.

small claims seems the way..
Title: Re: rock and a hard place, missing parcels
Post by: Andy B on 28 March 2011, 20:34:28
Quote
........
have you asked Royal Mail for a copy of the signature?.......

A signature on one of those stupid electronic pad could be from anyone  :-?. They're horrible things to use.  :y
Title: Re: rock and a hard place, missing parcels
Post by: Ken T on 28 March 2011, 22:13:30
Quote
there is a loophole but before i go into that...

have you asked Royal Mail for a copy of the signature? i'm pretty certain this MUST be made available to you on request even if it's not apparently available online, RING THE LOCAL OFFICE ON A DAILY BASIS, give them grief (in a nice way!)

have you asked the seller to confirm the address the package was sent to??

was the listing clear that the shipping method would only be recorded delivery?

The loophole is basically that if you agreed that recorded delivery was sufficient, then £41 is all royal mail would be likely to pay out

The seller would have to make the claim as they will have the proof of postage, and they will only be obliged to refund you once Royal mail have refunded him, and that again may only be up to £41

I would suggest (to anyone actually) when buying anything of any value, request in advance of purchase that the seller uses Special Delivery to send it, even if it means you pay a little extra postage

Isn't there due diligence ?. Royal Mail have to use Due Diligence in delivering the parcel to the required address and obtaining a signature proving the fact. Else the error is theirs. They should have a record of where it was sent to (post code) on the recorded receipt slip given to the seller at the post office, this will prove it was sent to the correct place.

Royal Mail here are pretty good, ok the occasional letter Posty gets his lane and close mixed up, but everything else has been spot on. I agree about these write on pads, not easy to be legible, perhaps they should take the person's name as well. 

Ken
Title: Re: rock and a hard place, missing parcels
Post by: Danny on 29 March 2011, 14:14:28
Quote
yes i have seen the signature and the delivery address from the tracking code on line.
yes its stated that postage is 1st class recorded, which when purchasing didnt realise it meant jack all.

small claims seems the way..

was the signature recognisable as yours or a family members? and was the address correct?

if the signature is wrong and the address is right, get back onto royal mail and complain that you have a dodgy postman
Title: Re: rock and a hard place, missing parcels
Post by: bigegg on 29 March 2011, 15:33:54
Royal Mail *don't* have a contract with the receiver.
only with the sender.
Title: Re: rock and a hard place, missing parcels
Post by: rikki_essex on 29 March 2011, 15:45:21
Also when they get some one to write their signature they have to take there surname aswell. And surly if the postman hasnt delivered it to your house then he must recored where he delivered it to. Go online to the royal mail website and go through to customer services and raise it through there.
Title: Re: rock and a hard place, missing parcels
Post by: bob.dent on 29 March 2011, 16:46:03
I don't know if it's the "done thing" but at the flats where I live, we have been asked twice recently to sign for parcels for neighbours because they wern't at home and one of the neighbours wasn't even on the same floor! One of the parcels was a brand new top of the range DVD player/recorder that was in the manufacturers box with the shipping labels stuck straight onto it without any additional wrapping to disguise the contents. If I was dishonest, I could have easily signed for the parcel in a false name and told the neighbour it hadn't been delivered to us and it would have been my word against the delivery driver. I can easily see how you've ended up in your predicament!!
Title: Re: rock and a hard place, missing parcels
Post by: Danny on 29 March 2011, 17:20:09
Quote
I don't know if it's the "done thing" but at the flats where I live, we have been asked twice recently to sign for parcels for neighbours because they wern't at home and one of the neighbours wasn't even on the same floor! One of the parcels was a brand new top of the range DVD player/recorder that was in the manufacturers box with the shipping labels stuck straight onto it without any additional wrapping to disguise the contents. If I was dishonest, I could have easily signed for the parcel in a false name and told the neighbour it hadn't been delivered to us and it would have been my word against the delivery driver. I can easily see how you've ended up in your predicament!!

in our office we're told under NO circumstances leave parcels with neighbours, dont leave behind bins, dont hid them in sheds

i feel like i'm the only person who follows the rules
Title: Re: rock and a hard place, missing parcels
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 29 March 2011, 18:56:04
Quote
Quote
I don't know if it's the "done thing" but at the flats where I live, we have been asked twice recently to sign for parcels for neighbours because they wern't at home and one of the neighbours wasn't even on the same floor! One of the parcels was a brand new top of the range DVD player/recorder that was in the manufacturers box with the shipping labels stuck straight onto it without any additional wrapping to disguise the contents. If I was dishonest, I could have easily signed for the parcel in a false name and told the neighbour it hadn't been delivered to us and it would have been my word against the delivery driver. I can easily see how you've ended up in your predicament!!

in our office we're told under NO circumstances leave parcels with neighbours, dont leave behind bins, dont hid them in sheds

i feel like i'm the only person who follows the rules

I think you must be one of the few, Danny  :y

Even my postie signs for parcels himself and leaves them behind the wheelie bin.....only prob is when he's not working, the replacement makes me go to the sorting office to pick it up  ::)
Title: Re: rock and a hard place, missing parcels
Post by: Danny on 29 March 2011, 19:44:40
Quote
Quote
Quote
I don't know if it's the "done thing" but at the flats where I live, we have been asked twice recently to sign for parcels for neighbours because they wern't at home and one of the neighbours wasn't even on the same floor! One of the parcels was a brand new top of the range DVD player/recorder that was in the manufacturers box with the shipping labels stuck straight onto it without any additional wrapping to disguise the contents. If I was dishonest, I could have easily signed for the parcel in a false name and told the neighbour it hadn't been delivered to us and it would have been my word against the delivery driver. I can easily see how you've ended up in your predicament!!

in our office we're told under NO circumstances leave parcels with neighbours, dont leave behind bins, dont hid them in sheds

i feel like i'm the only person who follows the rules

I think you must be one of the few, Danny  :y

Even my postie signs for parcels himself and leaves them behind the wheelie bin.....only prob is when he's not working, the replacement makes me go to the sorting office to pick it up  ::)

he's the one guaranteeing you get your parcel, as opposed to opportunist passer-by spotting it behind your bin and taking it
Title: Re: rock and a hard place, missing parcels
Post by: o-meg-a on 29 March 2011, 21:39:46
I leave the small window in my porch open and my postie has asked me nicely first if its ok for him to sign and drop thru the window.

I have put out a padded box underneath, which makes it perfectly fine with me, considering several things. One of which is the fact that my postie doesnt come till half past 11 every day...by which time i'm long gone. And i have parcels almost everyday. No way i'm going to the sorting office all the time because they dont deliver before i go to work.
Title: Re: rock and a hard place, missing parcels
Post by: o-meg-a on 29 March 2011, 21:49:13
As for the topic in hand....You're obviously entitled to the maximum refund under recorded which is now £41. So you're claiming for the rest of it.

Its down to the royal mail to prove it was delivered to your address.....if this is not possible, then the fault lies with them and they are liable....to what extent would still be determined, because it being sent by recorded means that they would argue even if it was their fault they are only liable for the £41....and really they are right.

its silly that the seller has sent by post which doesnt cover the cost of an expensive item. Sure if it was less than £100 or so, then sometimes it can almost be worth the risk because the seller just ends up covering the losses should it get misplaced, which is more rare than it is common.

But over £100, thats asking for trouble.
It's unfortunate that you did not recognise this issue before and ask him to send via special.
But there we go, lesson learnt.
I've done something similar before.

Title: Re: rock and a hard place, missing parcels
Post by: tidla on 29 March 2011, 22:26:18
Quote
As for the topic in hand....You're obviously entitled to the maximum refund under recorded which is now £41. So you're claiming for the rest of it.

Its down to the royal mail to prove it was delivered to your address.....if this is not possible, then the fault lies with them and they are liable....to what extent would still be determined, because it being sent by recorded means that they would argue even if it was their fault they are only liable for the £41....and really they are right.

its silly that the seller has sent by post which doesnt cover the cost of an expensive item. Sure if it was less than £100 or so, then sometimes it can almost be worth the risk because the seller just ends up covering the losses should it get misplaced, which is more rare than it is common.

But over £100, thats asking for trouble.
It's unfortunate that you did not recognise this issue before and ask him to send via special.
But there we go, lesson learnt.
I've done something similar before.

makes no odds how it was sent as it boils down to the sellers attitude.
if you have seen the comp form, you really do need the info given when sending an item.

it really is down to the sender to claim compo.

i have just put together a pre small court claim letter to the seller.

i just cannot get over ebays attitude in all this.

ebay /paypal protections a joke.
Title: Re: rock and a hard place, missing parcels
Post by: Danny on 30 March 2011, 15:58:43
in this case ebay and paypal can only see that a parcel has been signed for, and have no proof of otherwise

this is down to a dodgy postman, and royal mail have to investigate it, you need to use the legal route i think
Title: Re: rock and a hard place, missing parcels
Post by: doug4293 on 12 April 2011, 01:07:13
hope you get it sorted, the potman obviously are skint, am sure it was the postie that nicked ma trainers from ma front door, b*sturds !
Title: Re: rock and a hard place, missing parcels
Post by: Danny on 12 April 2011, 15:12:29
with all due respect, if you're gonna leave trainers on the front door, any old scrote will take them
Title: Re: rock and a hard place, missing parcels
Post by: davethediver on 12 April 2011, 15:14:07
Quote
with all due respect, if you're gonna leave trainers on the front door, any old scrote will take them

Don't know Danny i have an old pair that could walk themselves ;D ;D ;D