Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: mr carl on 12 April 2011, 13:06:07
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I see all different variants of 2.5 v6's but which model is the quickest?
Also do different models come with different gadgets, if so what type...trip computer etc etc.....?
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Fastest 2.5 is probably the GLS as it is the lightest. Slowest is probably the Elite because it is the heaviest. Fastest round corners is probably the MV6.
HTH
Elite has all the toys, GLS has fewest toys, all other models are somewhere in between.
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mine, because I'm the "driver" [smiley=evil.gif] [smiley=evil.gif];D ;D ;D :y
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spec, in reality will have zero difference. An Elite could easily beat a GLS, considering the youngest 2.5 out there now will be around 11 years old, it will all depend on how its been serviced!
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spec, in reality will have zero difference. An Elite could easily beat a GLS, considering the youngest 2.5 out there now will be around 11 years old, it will all depend on how its been serviced!
correct.. but there are some cheats to be done.. drop the radius of tires and wheels [smiley=evil.gif] [smiley=evil.gif] ;D
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spec, in reality will have zero difference. An Elite could easily beat a GLS, considering the youngest 2.5 out there now will be around 11 years old, it will all depend on how its been serviced!
Elite has heavier leather seats, extra heaters in rear seats extra cables and relays to feed heaters, rear blind. bose amp and extra wiring plus more I have probably forgotten. This will make it weigh more than a GLS which does not even have heated front seats so I am told by people one here.
So if the two cars are still at factory spec then the lighter car will be slightly quicker on paper.
I thought you had just finished University. ::) ::)
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I wouldn't mind betting all the Elite bloat makes a noticeable difference. ;)
Get rid of the leather, seat bases full of motors, sunroof, air con, big alloys, bose, etc. You must be able to lose 150 kg. That's not far off a 10% weight saving.
Obviously it'd have to be a manual saloon, too.
Kevin
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I wouldn't mind betting all the Elite bloat makes a noticeable difference. ;)
Get rid of the leather, seat bases full of motors, sunroof, air con, big alloys, bose, etc. You must be able to lose 150 kg. That's not far off a 10% weight saving.
Obviously it'd have to be a manual saloon, too.
Kevin
Alternatively Nos. the beast 8-)
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how many different types are there?
cdx
gls
cd
tdcx
td elite
am i missing any? so the gls is the quickest?
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spec, in reality will have zero difference. An Elite could easily beat a GLS, considering the youngest 2.5 out there now will be around 11 years old, it will all depend on how its been serviced!
Elite has heavier leather seats, extra heaters in rear seats extra cables and relays to feed heaters, rear blind. bose amp and extra wiring plus more I have probably forgotten. This will make it weigh more than a GLS which does not even have heated front seats so I am told by people one here.
So if the two cars are still at factory spec then the lighter car will be slightly quicker on paper.
I thought you had just finished University. ::) ::)
On paper, maybe. But the youngest 2.5 Omega will be 11 years old. An Elite could easily, easily out drag a 2.5 GLS....
I weigh around 80kg, some people weigh 120kg.... so unless your going really start getting pedantic about drivers weight, amount of petrol in tank, whats in the boot....
Stand by my view, spec, would mean sod-all in 0-60 dash. Its all about maintenance, service history and down to the build of the engine. Some go better than others. Also 99% of it is down to the driver.
Grabbing the paper figures:
2.5 Elite - Minimum kerb weight 1660 kg
2.5 GLS - Minimum kerb weight 1594 kg
So put a fat git in the GLS, and a skinny bugger like me in the Elite, and there is no advantage.
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how many different types are there?
cdx
gls
cd
tdcx
td elite
am i missing any? so the gls is the quickest?
No. Spec will make zero difference to performance on cars that could be up to 17 years old. A well maintained Elite could easily out drag a poorly maintained poverty spec Select
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Tunnie - Ya cannae change the laws of physics...
ALL things being equal, the lighter HAS to be faster.
yes there are good heavy cars, and bad light ones. but when factors are equal, less is more :y
and all taken into account, is straight line...
in real life, MV6 can be faster as it has better suspension, the probably everything else, finishing with the Wallowy self levelling elite.
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Tunnie - Ya cannae change the laws of physics...
ALL things being equal, the lighter HAS to be faster.
yes there are good heavy cars, and bad light ones. but when factors are equal, less is more :y
On an 11 year old car?
A 2.5 GLS has to be fast than a 2.5 Elite? (assuming no modifications to either)
Sorry, I don't think so, too many factors over course of a decade.
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Tunnie - Ya cannae change the laws of physics...
ALL things being equal, the lighter HAS to be faster.
yes there are good heavy cars, and bad light ones. but when factors are equal, less is more :y
On an 11 year old car?
A 2.5 GLS has to be fast than a 2.5 Elite? (assuming no modifications to either)
Sorry, I don't think so, too many factors over course of a decade.
Take the full sentance, dont mis-quote.
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Tunnie - Ya cannae change the laws of physics...
ALL things being equal, the lighter HAS to be faster.
yes there are good heavy cars, and bad light ones. but when factors are equal, less is more :y
On an 11 year old car?
A 2.5 GLS has to be fast than a 2.5 Elite? (assuming no modifications to either)
Sorry, I don't think so, too many factors over course of a decade.
Take the full sentance, dont mis-quote.
I didn't :y
This is the whole point, 11 years is a long time. Two equals, a 1998 GLS & Elite 2.5 manuals, identical service history, identical tyres?
Its still going to make sod all difference, on paper they still have same 0-60 dash time.
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Acceleration should be a tad quicker on a GLS due to having less weight to accelerate.
Doubt top end will be any different though as I would have thought wind resistance would much more significant by then. Maybe the boot spoiler on the Elite would give it a slight edge.
Who knows?
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note to self, never argue with an idiot, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Brush up on Newtons (2nd) Law Tunnie
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note to self, never argue with an idiot with a degree, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Brush up on Newtons (2nd) Law Tunnie
Fixed that for you JB. ;D ;D
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note to self, never argue with an idiot, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Brush up on Newtons (2nd) Law Tunnie
;D ;D ;D
Bloody students.........don't you just love 'em! ;D
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well i have a k reg calibra xe and that still shifts regardless of its age....i want something that is as fast as is, while keeping the same sort of mpg as the calibra...
which is why i am after the 2.5 rather than the larger 2.6-3.0 etc.
its not only off the line 0-60, the lighter car would handle better, having less unsprung weight ofcourse..
but is the gls bottom of the range? i want a few gadgets at least :D
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well i have a k reg calibra xe and that still shifts regardless of its age....i want something that is as fast as is, while keeping the same sort of mpg as the calibra...
which is why i am after the 2.5 rather than the larger 2.6-3.0 etc.
its not only off the line 0-60, the lighter car would handle better, having less unsprung weight ofcourse..
but is the gls bottom of the range? i want a few gadgets at least :D
Get yourself a 3.2 MV6.................job done! :y 8-)
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Ladies Ladies, we are talking about an Omega here.
When both were brand spankers out of the factory, then yeah there would have been a difference.
But a decade old? A decade of crappy mechanics? Sorry but thats just going to add huge amount of unknowns that will play havoc with Newtons law!
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i would love to have the 3.2 mv6, but i dont like getting raped at the petrol station :'(
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Ladies Ladies, we are talking about an Omega here.
When both were brand spankers out of the factory, then yeah there would have been a difference.
But a decade old? A decade of crappy mechanics? Sorry but thats just going to add huge amount of unknowns that will play havoc with Newtons law!
im very handy with a spanner, i love rebuilding engines...so age wouldnt really matter :)
i just want a omega that is fast enough for me not to miss my calibra, and not get over taken by a 17 year old in a 1.4 saxo ;D
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Ladies Ladies, we are talking about an Omega here.
When both were brand spankers out of the factory, then yeah there would have been a difference.
But a decade old? A decade of crappy mechanics? Sorry but thats just going to add huge amount of unknowns that will play havoc with Newtons law!
im very handy with a spanner, i love rebuilding engines...so age wouldnt really matter :)
i just want a omega that is fast enough for me not to miss my calibra, and not get over taken by a 17 year old in a 1.4 saxo ;D
Then get a 2.5 Elite Manual and pop 3.0 cams in there :y
Disagreements (and idiot insults) aside, I genuinely believe a decade is going to take its toll, and the age of cars you would be looking at, spec will be irrelevant for 0-60, even more so for top end. Difference is only 66kg
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Tunnie - Ya cannae change the laws of physics...
ALL things being equal, the lighter HAS to be faster.
yes there are good heavy cars, and bad light ones. but when factors are equal, less is more :y
On an 11 year old car?
A 2.5 GLS has to be fast than a 2.5 Elite? (assuming no modifications to either)
Sorry, I don't think so, too many factors over course of a decade.
Take the full sentance, dont mis-quote.
I didn't :y
This is the whole point, 11 years is a long time. Two equals, a 1998 GLS & Elite 2.5 manuals, identical service history, identical tyres?
Its still going to make sod all difference, on paper they still have same 0-60 dash time.
Yes they have the same times on paper. How would it look when selling the cars, here sir you could have a poverty spec car that is quicker and more fuel effient than the more expesive car we are trying to sell you.
Probably business suicide to admit it.
The bit about uni was not an insult, it was meant in fun. I work with students every day T
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i would love to have the 3.2 mv6, but i dont like getting raped at the petrol station :'(
Unfortunately with the ludicrous price of fuel liquid gold today, a very good point! :'(
Mind you, I get apprx. 23mpg with mixed driving and close to 30mpg on a good run, but still crippling! Such a shame with all those horses and only running them at a mere canter most of the time. ::)
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Tunnie - Ya cannae change the laws of physics...
ALL things being equal, the lighter HAS to be faster.
yes there are good heavy cars, and bad light ones. but when factors are equal, less is more :y
On an 11 year old car?
A 2.5 GLS has to be fast than a 2.5 Elite? (assuming no modifications to either)
Sorry, I don't think so, too many factors over course of a decade.
Take the full sentance, dont mis-quote.
I didn't :y
This is the whole point, 11 years is a long time. Two equals, a 1998 GLS & Elite 2.5 manuals, identical service history, identical tyres?
Its still going to make sod all difference, on paper they still have same 0-60 dash time.
Yes they have the same times on paper. How would it look when selling the cars, here sir you could have a poverty spec car that is quicker and more fuel effient than the more expesive car we are trying to sell you.
Probably business suicide to admit it.
The bit about uni was not an insult, it was meant in fun. I work with students every day T
Thats a whole new can of worms there, prob not worth getting into that ;D ;D
If we were were talking about fresh out of the factory cars, this would be a lot easier. :D
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i would love to have the 3.2 mv6, but i dont like getting raped at the petrol station :'(
Unfortunately with the ludicrous price of fuel liquid gold today, a very good point! :'(
Mind you, I get apprx. 23mpg with mixed driving and close to 30mpg on a good run, but still crippling! Such a shame with all those horses and only running them at a mere canter most of the time. ::)
LPG Bob, you know it makes sense :y
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i would love to have the 3.2 mv6, but i dont like getting raped at the petrol station :'(
Unfortunately with the ludicrous price of fuel liquid gold today, a very good point! :'(
Mind you, I get apprx. 23mpg with mixed driving and close to 30mpg on a good run, but still crippling! Such a shame with all those horses and only running them at a mere canter most of the time. ::)
LPG Bob, you know it makes sense :y
Trouble is Tunnie, I don't know how much longer I'll keep it and I'm loathe to spend between 1 to 2 grand (or whatever the cost is these days) for the conversion. If I'd known how much the cost of fuel was going to rise, realistically I should have done it when I first got it. :-[
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Now if he had asked which is the quickest 2.6, the answer would have beena lot more cut and dried. :-X ::) :D ;D ;D
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i would love to have the 3.2 mv6, but i dont like getting raped at the petrol station :'(
Oh, I have to say I rather enjoy it ;D ;D ;D
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i would love to have the 3.2 mv6, but i dont like getting raped at the petrol station :'(
Unfortunately with the ludicrous price of fuel liquid gold today, a very good point! :'(
Mind you, I get apprx. 23mpg with mixed driving and close to 30mpg on a good run, but still crippling! Such a shame with all those horses and only running them at a mere canter most of the time. ::)
LPG Bob, you know it makes sense :y
Trouble is Tunnie, I don't know how much longer I'll keep it and I'm loathe to spend between 1 to 2 grand (or whatever the cost is these days) for the conversion. If I'd known how much the cost of fuel was going to rise, realistically I should have done it when I first got it. :-[
Wish I had done mine sooner, but glad i did it DIY with OOF help. I paid costs pack and well into profit, but have made more.
Convert yours, it could be as low as £600 for the kit :y
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i would love to have the 3.2 mv6, but i dont like getting raped at the petrol station :'(
Unfortunately with the ludicrous price of fuel liquid gold today, a very good point! :'(
Mind you, I get apprx. 23mpg with mixed driving and close to 30mpg on a good run, but still crippling! Such a shame with all those horses and only running them at a mere canter most of the time. ::)
LPG Bob, you know it makes sense :y
Trouble is Tunnie, I don't know how much longer I'll keep it and I'm loathe to spend between 1 to 2 grand (or whatever the cost is these days) for the conversion. If I'd known how much the cost of fuel was going to rise, realistically I should have done it when I first got it. :-[
Wish I had done mine sooner, but glad i did it DIY with OOF help. I paid costs pack and well into profit, but have made more.
Convert yours, it could be as low as £600 for the kit :y
A lot depends on how much mileage you do for it to be worth converting to gas, also if you can do without the space in the boot. Someone who needs the boot space for say children's things etc may struggle as your boot to me becomes more like a smaller cars, then is it not worth buying a smaller car anyway??
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i would love to have the 3.2 mv6, but i dont like getting raped at the petrol station :'(
Unfortunately with the ludicrous price of fuel liquid gold today, a very good point! :'(
Mind you, I get apprx. 23mpg with mixed driving and close to 30mpg on a good run, but still crippling! Such a shame with all those horses and only running them at a mere canter most of the time. ::)
LPG Bob, you know it makes sense :y
Trouble is Tunnie, I don't know how much longer I'll keep it and I'm loathe to spend between 1 to 2 grand (or whatever the cost is these days) for the conversion. If I'd known how much the cost of fuel was going to rise, realistically I should have done it when I first got it. :-[
Wish I had done mine sooner, but glad i did it DIY with OOF help. I paid costs pack and well into profit, but have made more.
Convert yours, it could be as low as £600 for the kit :y
A lot depends on how much mileage you do for it to be worth converting to gas, also if you can do without the space in the boot. Someone who needs the boot space for say children's things etc may struggle as your boot to me becomes more like a smaller cars, then is it not worth buying a smaller car anyway??
Ah yes.......I knew there was another reason I never had it done, I can't afford to lose the load space to make way for the fuel tank. It gets loaded to the gunnels with disco equipment most weekends. ::)
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i would love to have the 3.2 mv6, but i dont like getting raped at the petrol station :'(
Unfortunately with the ludicrous price of fuel liquid gold today, a very good point! :'(
Mind you, I get apprx. 23mpg with mixed driving and close to 30mpg on a good run, but still crippling! Such a shame with all those horses and only running them at a mere canter most of the time. ::)
LPG Bob, you know it makes sense :y
Trouble is Tunnie, I don't know how much longer I'll keep it and I'm loathe to spend between 1 to 2 grand (or whatever the cost is these days) for the conversion. If I'd known how much the cost of fuel was going to rise, realistically I should have done it when I first got it. :-[
Wish I had done mine sooner, but glad i did it DIY with OOF help. I paid costs pack and well into profit, but have made more.
Convert yours, it could be as low as £600 for the kit :y
A lot depends on how much mileage you do for it to be worth converting to gas, also if you can do without the space in the boot. Someone who needs the boot space for say children's things etc may struggle as your boot to me becomes more like a smaller cars, then is it not worth buying a smaller car anyway??
With an Estate, got both of both worlds, can pop a doughnut tank in spare wheel, but does give limited range. Especially with V6 economy....
I only considered conversion when my mileage sky rocketed, but if you half your fuel bill, it might make it more tempting to keep Bob :y
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Now if he had asked which is the quickest 2.6, the answer would have beena lot more cut and dried. :-X ::) :D ;D ;D
MIKE!!!!!!!
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if you went to my local petrol station you would get raped at the pump and then literally raped round the corner.... and prob sold as a male prostitute afterwards.
aaaaaaanyhoooo, what mpg do you get from your calibra.
have no fear these are relatively quick cars. shove it in sports mode :y :y :y
i get 25mpg on urban runs and about 35mpg on a long haul
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if you went to my local petrol station you would get raped at the pump and then literally raped round the corner.... and prob sold as a male prostitute afterwards.
aaaaaaanyhoooo, what mpg do you get from your calibra.
have no fear these are relatively quick cars. shove it in sports mode :y :y :y
i get 25mpg on urban runs and about 35mpg on a long haul
i get about 23 mpg, always town driving.....
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and whats the 0-60 on that mate?
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and whats the 0-60 on that mate?
just under 8 i would say with the work i hav done to it, i think in the book it says 8.
:)
can the omega be lowered -40mm without arch work?...doing a bit of reading here
http://www.torquecars.com/vauxhall/omega-tuning.php
and i am a little worried, i would like to lower it -40 if i can..
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Tunnie, take one fat bloke and put him in a light car with a little engine (MX5) then take a heavy car with a light bloke (mike dundee) there was a fat bloke in a heavy car as well (sorry Jaime and Paul and have a race, out come the lighter car wins ;D
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h64/pickledpepper/th_MOV00010.jpg) (http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h64/pickledpepper/?action=view¤t=MOV00010.mp4)
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well my omega on paper does 9.5 (i'm sure someone will correct me if im wrong - 2.5v6 cd) so i doubt y'all notice any difference my son ;)
however 70-100 youll beat most things on tut motorway. she flies
my omega makes a great tune too especially in sports mode
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isnt manual a second faster? i can live with .5 of a second, hell i can live with a second.
my problem is i have bought other cars and i nd up getting rid of them because i can feel the sluggishness of them and just end up driving my calibra again.
so i thought i would get something stylish (omega) but it has got to be around the same 0-60 otherwise i will just get frustrated and bored ;D
do you guys get much trouble driving in the snow?
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If you are genuinely interested in speed, WTF are you doing with an omega?
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isnt manual a second faster? i can live with .5 of a second, hell i can live with a second.
my problem is i have bought other cars and i nd up getting rid of them because i can feel the sluggishness of them and just end up driving my calibra again.
so i thought i would get something stylish (omega) but it has got to be around the same 0-60 otherwise i will just get frustrated and bored ;D
do you guys get much trouble driving in the snow?
A dead body in the boot helps with traction, failing that a bag of sand or cement :D
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as far as im aware the manual is 0.5 faster. but if you notice 0.5 seconds and that would frustrate you i suggest you save up and get a veyron ::) :y :y :y
yes mate pretty crap in the snow as rwd
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In the real world you probably wont notice the difference between all the 2.5's as the weight difference isn't that much between the range, and will all feel a fair bit slower then you xe calibra anyway. If your buying an omega then you might aswell get the best equipped one you can find IMO.
I honestly think you would be better off with a 3.0 too if your worried about it being quick enough for you, and when driven sensible the mpg figures are only marginally lower then the 2.5 as then engine doesn't have to work as hard anyway.
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isnt manual a second faster? i can live with .5 of a second, hell i can live with a second.
my problem is i have bought other cars and i nd up getting rid of them because i can feel the sluggishness
of them and just end up driving my calibra again.
so i thought i would get something stylish (omega) but it has got to be around the same 0-60 otherwise i will just get frustrated and bored ;D
do you guys get much trouble driving in the snow?
You also get slightly better mpg out the manual. :)
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If you are genuinely interested in speed, WTF are you doing with an omega?
i dont need something esp fast, i just dont want anything slower.
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well the omega should do you fine mate :y
now for the 7000th manual vs auto debate ::) ::) ::) :D :D :D
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i would love to have the 3.2 mv6, but i dont like getting raped at the petrol station
You'll need to buy petrol any way. :y
I have been called insane for running an ex plod 3.2 manual as a taxi. :D
BUT someone, (I think Taxi Driver :-/), recently posted that he was spending £260 ish on diesel every week. He drives a Fiat van (with windows).
I spend about the same on petrol, and I know who has more fun ::)
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if you put 2 cars side by side, many parameters come into account aside from their extra weights
if manual -the condition of pressure plate
if auto - condition of pump , torque converter etc etc
(I assume you wont race a manual with auto ;D)
condition of sparks
condition of engine valves,
condition of cylinder rings
condition of air filter
condition of oil
and..
tires .. even tires can make a lot of difference depending on their condition and rubber compound
so even a lighter gls with bad parameters can loose against a heavier elite..
even try racing the same car with exact same weight and engine condition and with snow tires to a car with summer tires you will see difference..
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if you put 2 cars side by side, many parameters come into account aside from their extra weights
if manual -the condition of pressure plate
if auto - condition of pump , torque converter etc etc
(I assume you wont race a manual with auto ;D)
condition of sparks
condition of engine valves,
condition of cylinder rings
condition of air filter
condition of oil
and..
tires .. even tires can make a lot of difference depending on their condition and rubber compound
so even a lighter gls with bad parameters can loose against a heavier elite..
even try racing the same car with exact same weight and engine condition and with snow tires to a car with summer tires you will see difference..
all this is pretty much common knollage, i just wanted to know which was the best to go for :)
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if you put 2 cars side by side, many parameters come into account aside from their extra weights
if manual -the condition of pressure plate
if auto - condition of pump , torque converter etc etc
(I assume you wont race a manual with auto ;D)
condition of sparks
condition of engine valves,
condition of cylinder rings
condition of air filter
condition of oil
and..
tires .. even tires can make a lot of difference depending on their condition and rubber compound
so even a lighter gls with bad parameters can loose against a heavier elite..
even try racing the same car with exact same weight and engine condition and with snow tires to a car with summer tires you will see difference..
all this is pretty much common knollage, i just wanted to know which was the best to go for :)
The best car is the one in the best condition, Omega's are knocking on a bit but there are plenty to choose from still. If it looks tired and unloved then walk away. I will still have my old 96 car back again anyday over the one I have now.
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Smaller V6s also work well with 3.0 cams.
Even the autos
My 2.6 is one of the faster 2.6 autos, Matt has a quick 2.5 estate auto as well I think and Mike Dundee has a quick 2.6 manual.
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I see all different variants of 2.5 v6's but which model is the quickest?
Also do different models come with different gadgets, if so what type...trip computer etc etc.....?
An MX5 driven by Pete, with the exception of 1 oof driver.... :-X
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if you put 2 cars side by side, many parameters come into account aside from their extra weights
if manual -the condition of pressure plate
if auto - condition of pump , torque converter etc etc
(I assume you wont race a manual with auto ;D)
condition of sparks
condition of engine valves,
condition of cylinder rings
condition of air filter
condition of oil
and..
tires .. even tires can make a lot of difference depending on their condition and rubber compound
so even a lighter gls with bad parameters can loose against a heavier elite..
even try racing the same car with exact same weight and engine condition and with snow tires to a car with summer tires you will see difference..
Nice to see someone agree's with me cem :y
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Oh wow, listen to you lot. ::) When i first joined OOF i had my green 2.5 CD manual that is still running well today. I then bought the Beastie, a 3.0 MV6 from Hotel 21. At first could hardly detect any gain in power/speed..that is until on the A1 @ Berwick i went to overtake one car (as i would have done in the 2.5) but once on the go she popped all 4 cars in the same space. The 3.0 has dollops more mid range grunt over the 2.5 ie 50 to 80 times & longer legs ie 60 in 2nd, 100 in 3rd before touching the red plus the Mv6's handle better given the suspension & tyre profile.
Believe me i've owned both. Guy. 8-)
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how many different types are there?
cdx
gls
cd
tdcx
td elite
am i missing any? so the gls is the quickest?
gls
cd
cdx
elite
mv6
sport
td gls
td cd
td cdx
td elite
then manuels and autos takes it to 20 and thats without adding the estates up
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how many different types are there?
cdx
gls
cd
tdcx
td elite
am i missing any? so the gls is the quickest?
gls
cd
cdx
elite
mv6
sport
td gls
td cd
td cdx
td elite
then manuels and autos takes it to 20 and thats without adding the estates up
Don't forget the poverty spec "Select" model :y
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Everything being equal, you're still not going to detect any difference in speed between the trim levels unless you have a stopwatch that goes to 1/100,000ths ;D
the minor difference in weight on a car the size of an omega is insignificant, like driving a caterham before and after having your haircut :y
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during that debate I think one point also not mentioned.. a heavier car is not always slower.. its acceleration depends also on the downforce .. if the downforce is not adequate, your tires can not apply full force to the surface.. ::)
also meaning suspension components play an important role..
of course all these are valid if we race on a straight track..
however on curved roads as centrifugal forces come into play things change drastically as higher mass is disadvantage..
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during that debate I think one point also not mentioned.. a heavier car is not always slower.. its acceleration depends also on the downforce .. if the downforce is not adequate, your tires can not apply full force to the surface.. ::)
also meaning suspension components play an important role..
of course all these are valid if we race on a straight track..
however on curved roads as centrifugal forces come into play things change drastically as higher mass is disadvantage..
But both cars would have these factors to contend with, not only the lighter of the two....
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during that debate I think one point also not mentioned.. a heavier car is not always slower.. its acceleration depends also on the downforce .. if the downforce is not adequate, your tires can not apply full force to the surface.. ::)
also meaning suspension components play an important role..
of course all these are valid if we race on a straight track..
however on curved roads as centrifugal forces come into play things change drastically as higher mass is disadvantage..
But both cars would have these factors to contend with, not only the lighter of the two....
if we are talking about physics (as we have to) those factors wont be the same .. cars with powers exceeding 200 hp will need some weight for downforce.. and dont neglect the factor of wind uplift.. trust me if we were talking about 500 hp or more downforce would be very critical..
imo too many parameters to take into account.. best approach is to try them on the track ;D
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Lmao I just wanted to know which car out of the range was booked as the quickest :D
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Downforce will not have any influence at all accellerating from 0-60mph. ;)..............asuming you are talking about aerodynamic downforce ?
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Lmao I just wanted to know which car out of the range was booked as the quickest :D
No practical difference :y I think is the answer you want.
you are limiting yourself to older cars with the 2.5.
If you went 2.6, you get virtually the same economy / power but can go considerable newer, and also add the MV6 to your choices being a little sportier in suspension.
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Everything being equal, you're still not going to detect any difference in speed between the trim levels unless you have a stopwatch that goes to 1/100,000ths ;D
the minor difference in weight on a car the size of an omega is insignificant, like driving a caterham before and after having your haircut :y
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Downforce will not have any influence at all accellerating from 0-60mph. ;)..............asuming you are talking about aerodynamic downforce ?
if there is no downforce, there will be no grip ;) and no acceleration ;D
why do you think f1 cars have those wings ..
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Downforce will not have any influence at all accellerating from 0-60mph. ;)..............asuming you are talking about aerodynamic downforce ?
if there is no downforce, there will be no grip ;) and no acceleration ;D
why do you think f1 cars have those wings ..
make a simple test..
take a tire with no wheel and put on the road and try turning.. easy.. then push downwards and now try to turn..
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Downforce will not have any influence at all accellerating from 0-60mph. ;)..............asuming you are talking about aerodynamic downforce ?
if there is no downforce, there will be no grip ;) and no acceleration ;D
why do you think f1 cars have those wings ..
So now I need a spoiler just to get the bugger to move? ;D
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ok.. here is the question..
what shape will have the graph if you plot acceleration (y axis) versus tire width (x axis) ?
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Downforce will not have any influence at all accellerating from 0-60mph. ;)..............asuming you are talking about aerodynamic downforce ?
if there is no downforce, there will be no grip ;) and no acceleration ;D
why do you think f1 cars have those wings ..
So now I need a spoiler just to get the bugger to move? ;D
not simple to answer.. depends on your car weight, tire profile , engine torque.. :-/
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Downforce will not have any influence at all accellerating from 0-60mph. ;)..............asuming you are talking about aerodynamic downforce ?
if there is no downforce, there will be no grip ;) and no acceleration ;D
why do you think f1 cars have those wings ..
So now I need a spoiler just to get the bugger to move? ;D
not simple to answer.. depends on your car weight, tire profile , engine torque.. :-/
Sounds like it will be more effective if I just get someone to push me everywhere...
The reason I'm a little anal with 0-60 times is if I don't mind having a car 1 second slower than the calibra, then I won't mind having a v6 1 second slower than the faster 2.5....so by this time I have lost 2seconds slower than the car I started with, then I just as well get a diesel....
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The short answer to your question carl is - a manual rather than auto. :y
Cem - F1 cars have huge bwings at the back to push the car onto the road on very high speed corners where the mechanical grip would be exceeded. at speeds up to 60mph aerodynamics will have little influence on anything. ;)
Your example of a wheel with or without a tyre, demonstrates mechanical grip to me, which does require some weight pushing down upon it to provide traction. Quite different to aero downforce, in the real world of driving on the road.
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Downforce will not have any influence at all accellerating from 0-60mph. ;)..............asuming you are talking about aerodynamic downforce ?
if there is no downforce, there will be no grip ;) and no acceleration ;D
why do you think f1 cars have those wings ..
So now I need a spoiler just to get the bugger to move? ;D
not simple to answer.. depends on your car weight, tire profile , engine torque.. :-/
Sounds like it will be more effective if I just get someone to push me everywhere...
The reason I'm a little anal with 0-60 times is if I don't mind having a car 1 second slower than the calibra, then I won't mind having a v6 1 second slower than the faster 2.5....so by this time I have lost 2seconds slower than the car I started with, then I just as well get a diesel....
1 sec is a serious time at 0-60.. generally the differences will be within 0.1-0.2 secs at maximum for the 2.5 (of course not talking about auto-manual difference) :y
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The reason I'm a little anal with 0-60 times is if I don't mind having a car 1 second slower than the calibra, then I won't mind having a v6 1 second slower than the faster 2.5....so by this time I have lost 2seconds slower than the car I started with, then I just as well get a diesel....
In that case buy a 3.2 and be done with it. :y
It's only petrol after all. ::)
Failing that buy a 2.2 dti and replace the engine with a late 3.0 v6 diseasal lump from a Vectra c.
184bhp and 380lbft iirc. :y
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The reason I'm a little anal with 0-60 times is if I don't mind having a car 1 second slower than the calibra, then I won't mind having a v6 1 second slower than the faster 2.5....so by this time I have lost 2seconds slower than the car I started with, then I just as well get a diesel....
In that case buy a 3.2 and be done with it. :y
It's only petrol after all. ::)
Failing that buy a 2.2 dti and replace the engine with a late 3.0 v6 diseasal lump from a Vectra c.
184bhp and 380lbft iirc. :y
i wouldnt even like to guess how much it would cost for me to run the 3.2, let alone buy the car to start with.... :(
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The reason I'm a little anal with 0-60 times is if I don't mind having a car 1 second slower than the calibra, then I won't mind having a v6 1 second slower than the faster 2.5....so by this time I have lost 2seconds slower than the car I started with, then I just as well get a diesel....
In that case buy a 3.2 and be done with it. :y
It's only petrol after all. ::)
Failing that buy a 2.2 dti and replace the engine with a late 3.0 v6 diseasal lump from a Vectra c.
184bhp and 380lbft iirc. :y
i wouldnt even like to guess how much it would cost for me to run the 3.2, let alone buy the car to start with.... :(
We have had the discussion about decently serviced cars being quicker than poorly serviced cars, but the same applies to economy. A very well looked after 3.0/3.2 will be more economical than a poorly looked after 2.5/2.6.
From that point, the likelyhood (not a rule, but likelyhood) is a 3.2 (newer) will have less mileage, less wear-and-tear and..... you know the rest.
When buying an Omega, go for the best spec'd car you can find. When buying the V6, economy is completely irrelivant.
As a side note, you sound like the kind of chap who enjoys sticking their foot down from time to time..... any of the V6 engines on full chatter will drink more than George Best on a Stag Do.
Just my two-penneth worth. :y
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Well said BM. I wouldn't run one as a cab unless it paid. :y
If you want economy, buy a pug 107, if you want performance buy a porsche, if you want a quick, comfy cruiser then buy an Omega.
Rocket science it ain't.
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Sounds like it will be more effective if I just get someone to push me everywhere...
The reason I'm a little anal with 0-60 times is if I don't mind having a car 1 second slower than the calibra, then I won't mind having a v6 1 second slower than the faster 2.5....so by this time I have lost 2seconds slower than the car I started with, then I just as well get a diesel....
hi mr C. i still dont understand your fascination with 0-60 lol i recently tried to do it on real world roads and only by going out very late at night would i have had a chance to actually do it cos of the amount of traffic.
as said if you want a very cheaply priced luxury barge go for an omega. an eco car go for pug 107 and a fast car go for.....well something else ;D ;D ;D ;D
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i'd love to see a Calibra do 0-60 in 8secs in a straight line.
not the time i doubt, its the straight line bit i dont believe ;D
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This is becoming another bus thread. Is it a wind-up? 0-60 in an omega? One word....slow.
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i'd love to see a Calibra do 0-60 in 8secs in a straight line.
not the time i doubt, its the straight line bit i dont believe ;D
There not to hot around the corners either :D
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This is becoming another bus thread. Is it a wind-up? 0-60 in an omega? One word....slow.
Are they really that bad?
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The short answer to your question carl is - a manual rather than auto. :y
Cem - F1 cars have huge bwings at the back to push the car onto the road on very high speed corners where the mechanical grip would be exceeded.
grip for f1 cars from their original weight is very small compared to the downforce from those wings as they are like mosquitos ;D for that reason they use very wide tires at the back where wind downforce is small at starting speeds..
at speeds up to 60mph aerodynamics will have little influence on anything. ;)
on those tracks even 0.001 sec is critical so they try using every factor to the limit..
Your example of a wheel with or without a tyre, demonstrates mechanical grip to me, which does require some weight pushing down upon it to provide traction. Quite different to aero downforce,
not different.. it produces grip (like normal mass) as a result ;)
in the real world of driving on the road.
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i'd love to see a Calibra do 0-60 in 8secs in a straight line.
not the time i doubt, its the straight line bit i dont believe ;D
Banjax, turbo models with 4x4 can easly go below 6 secs.. I know a mechanic , who owns one and pushing around 380-400 hp..
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This is becoming another bus thread. Is it a wind-up? 0-60 in an omega? One word....slow.
as stock ..
but if some money spent in a professional garage, you will change your mind.. STMO , will you send me some money ;D :P
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I don't know where this idea that cars get slower with age came from.
Give me a choice of a tight new engine and a nicely loosened-up old one in a drag race and I know what I'd choose.
Yes, if it's in dire mechanical condition, power output will start to suffer but, in my experience, and engine will perform well, once run in, until it's knackered as long as it gets basic servicing.
.. and if anyone still doesn't believe weight is an issue they need to try a Westfield. Yes, even 2/3rd engines aren't as tedious and dull when you give them a tonne less weight to carry. (17 year old 4 pots at that :o)
;)
Kevin
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I don't know where this idea that cars get slower with age came from.
With regards to age, I was thinking more of the years of bodging mechanics having their toll. You get two identical models one DIY serviced by your good self, another Vx serviced its entire life.
I think I know which one would be quicker!
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I don't know where this idea that cars get slower with age came from.
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With regards to age, I was thinking more of the years of bodging mechanics having their toll. You get two identical models one DIY serviced by your good self, another Vx serviced its entire life.
I think I know which one would be quicker!
What's the difference between vauxhall swapping an oil filter and putting new oil in compared to a diy mechanic? To be honest if you think your car gets any special treatment at a vauxhall garage you might be surprised. Especially if you knew some of the horror stories from people who have worked for main dealer garages.
Also most vauxhall engines I've seen go on a rolling road with over 100k miles on them have made standard power or even higher. Only ones ive seen loose power have been poorly abused examples or not been running properly at the time
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I don't know where this idea that cars get slower with age came from.
Give me a choice of a tight new engine and a nicely loosened-up old one in a drag race and I know what I'd choose.
Yes, if it's in dire mechanical condition, power output will start to suffer but, in my experience, and engine will perform well, once run in, until it's knackered as long as it gets basic servicing.
.. and if anyone still doesn't believe weight is an issue they need to try a Westfield. Yes, even 2/3rd engines aren't as tedious and dull when you give them a tonne less weight to carry. (17 year old 4 pots at that :o)
;)
Kevin
Kevin Westfield is another subject.. it weights around 450-500 kgs :o which is less then 1/3 of omega..
a1=f/m < a2=3f/m obviously
if we are talking about 2.5 models the weight differences are around 100 kg for the avg .. thats about %6 difference which may be easly cancelled with a bad serviced engine on the other side.. :-/
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I don't know where this idea that cars get slower with age came from.
.
With regards to age, I was thinking more of the years of bodging mechanics having their toll. You get two identical models one DIY serviced by your good self, another Vx serviced its entire life.
I think I know which one would be quicker!
What's the difference between vauxhall swapping an oil filter and putting new oil in compared to a diy mechanic? To be honest if you think your car gets any special treatment at a vauxhall garage you might be surprised. Especially if you knew some of the horror stories from people who have worked for main dealer garages.
Also most vauxhall engines I've seen go on a rolling road with over 100k miles on them have made standard power or even higher. Only ones ive seen loose power have been poorly abused examples or not been running properly at the time
I'm say the opposite to what you think I am, garages are manned by monkeys who don't have a clue, a DIY serviced car is going to be looked after far better than any Vx monkey.
I change my oil every 3k, not the 20k specified by Vx to please fleet managers. It runs sooooo much better than when I first got it.
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agree with that tunnie. your description of groses mechanics being monkeys is a bit harsh though; monkeys are quite intelligent!!!!!!
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Just to put the slow Omega to bed.
My 165k ex plod mobile will still do 0-60 in under 8 seconds, and doesn't really get into its stride until 3000rpm where the engine changes from being quite pokey to being down right rude. :-X Plod springs, in spite of self levelling, keep it quite tidy in the twisty bits, (OK, tidy for a 2 ton car). ;)
Considering that I spend most of my time bombing around town and country lanes, I don't think that 25mpg average is unreasonable. On longer runs at least 30mpg is easily reached with a bit of planning/anticipation.
tunnie wrote Today at 10:43:
Kevin Wood wrote Today at 10:24:
I don't know where this idea that cars get slower with age came from.
.
With regards to age, I was thinking more of the years of bodging mechanics having their toll. You get two identical models one DIY serviced by your good self, another Vx serviced its entire life.
I think I know which one would be quicker!
What's the difference between vauxhall swapping an oil filter and putting new oil in compared to a diy mechanic? To be honest if you think your car gets any special treatment at a vauxhall garage you might be surprised. Especially if you knew some of the horror stories from people who have worked for main dealer garages.
Also most vauxhall engines I've seen go on a rolling road with over 100k miles on them have made standard power or even higher. Only ones ive seen loose power have been poorly abused examples or not been running properly at the time
I'm say the opposite to what you think I am, garages are manned by monkeys who don't have a clue, a DIY serviced car is going to be looked after far better than any Vx monkey.
I change my oil every 3k, not the 20k specified by Vx to please fleet managers. It runs sooooo much better than when I first got it.
I think that you are all saying the same thing here. :y
Personally I begrudge paying someone else hundreds of pounds to do, or not, something that I am perfectly capable of doing myself for £25-£60. >:(
At least I know that if I've change the oil and filters they have been changed. :y
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ok what about the 2.5 v6 reflection?
any 0-60 times on that?
do any of you have a chart with 0-60 times through out the range?
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ok what about the 2.5 v6 reflection?
any 0-60 times on that?
do any of you have a chart with 0-60 times through out the range?
Parkers offer the times, but not exactly real world.
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ok what about the 2.5 v6 reflection?
any 0-60 times on that?
do any of you have a chart with 0-60 times through out the range?
Parkers offer the times, but not exactly real world.
i have been going through autotrader.co.uk and have been checking the peformance of each one i can find, but it takes sooooooo long...and i dont think they are all correct :-/
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ok what about the 2.5 v6 reflection?
any 0-60 times on that?
do any of you have a chart with 0-60 times through out the range?
Parkers offer the times, but not exactly real world.
i have been going through autotrader.co.uk and have been checking the peformance of each one i can find, but it takes sooooooo long...and i dont think they are all correct :-/
I thought we'd been through all this before :-?. The cars are now years old & will be nothing like the book says.
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Time for the 'Return of the Bus Thread' ........... :D :D :D
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ok what about the 2.5 v6 reflection?
any 0-60 times on that?
do any of you have a chart with 0-60 times through out the range?
Parkers offer the times, but not exactly real world.
i have been going through autotrader.co.uk and have been checking the peformance of each one i can find, but it takes sooooooo long...and i dont think they are all correct :-/
I thought we'd been through all this before :-?. The cars are now years old & will be nothing like the book says.
you can tell me that all day long....i know its not true.my c20xe is 19 years old and still pulls past most things on the road.
with your theory in mind, my 19 year old engine should be as fast as a pedal powered go-kart!
i only want to know which is the fastest 2.5 in the range, not a argument on how all 2.5's have never been looked after, but as if by magic all the other engines in the range have been kept in tip top condition ::)
;D
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ok what about the 2.5 v6 reflection?
any 0-60 times on that?
do any of you have a chart with 0-60 times through out the range?
Parkers offer the times, but not exactly real world.
ahh just looking on parkers now, thank you jim :)
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....
you can tell me that all day long....i know its not true. ......
if you know, then WTF are you still asking? :-? Even 2 brand spanking new cars aren't guaranteed to be producing exactly the same bhp's and years down the line will have lost a few horses - do you never watch Top Gear with the challenges?
The model will make next to break all difference to 0 - 60 times. The biggest difference will be if you're 7st wet through or a 30st couch potatoe.
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.....
i only want to know which is the fastest 2.5 in the range, not a argument on how all 2.5's have never been looked after, but as if by magic all the other engines in the range have been kept in tip top condition ::)
;D
you're talking out of your 4r5e now.
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....
you can tell me that all day long....i know its not true. ......
if you know, then WTF are you still asking? :-? Even 2 brand spanking new cars aren't guaranteed to be producing exactly the same bhp's and years down the line will have lost a few horses - do you never watch Top Gear with the challenges?
The model will make next to break all difference to 0 - 60 times. The biggest difference will be if you're 7st wet through or a 30st couch potatoe.
im asking because i had no idea on the range of engines :P
the only engines i know anything about are Xe's, now without someone telling you, you would be forgiven for thinking that the x20xev is as fast as the c20xe or the 20xe , all three are 2.0l engines, but with out research how the hell are you meant to know the difference, guess work..?
and what happens in topgear once they have given the car a service? it restores most of its power.
for instance the main things mechanical that will strip engines of power is mainly rings due to lowered CR, and a few other things eg stem seal rubbers, valve condition, pretty much everything else can be restored with minimal effort (just a good service)
i am not scared about taking the engines apart to hone some bores, fit new rings...and maybe lap in a few valves. but if the engine is still only capable of 10 seconds 0-60 then all this has been a waist of time, hence me asking which was the faster 2.5 in the omega range as i can restore lost power
:y
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People seem to be going around in circles, plus it seems to be getting a little heated.
Perhaps stopping it here maybe an idea.