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Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Banjax on 03 May 2011, 07:01:15

Title: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: Banjax on 03 May 2011, 07:01:15
You've got to love the old tories, they hook up with the LibDems "for the good of the country" together they determine what will and wont be implemented from each others manifestos, again, "for the good of the country" we're beyond petty squabbles, beyond punch and judy politics working together in a new way.....remember that morning on the lawn behind no 10, the matching suits, matching smiles, matching rhetoric, we all laughed as you playfully mocked each other -you were both so clearly in love it could have worked but you made a mistake Nick, and you're paying a heavy price - never trust a tory. Now DC is attacking you for bending over for him, now hes attacking you for ditching your principles and lying to the electorate (what happened to the mature, sensible compromises for the good of the country?). He's played you like a cheap violin Nick. He's laughing at you, he's stabbed you in the back and his cold gimlet eyes are staring at you in the mirror. He doesnt care about you, he doesnt care about the country, he only cares about power.......you see it now dont you......the slow dawning realization that you got into bed with a monster - he never had any intention of sharing power with you, he used you to get in and he'll ditch you as soon as he thinks he can win on his own......AV's his chance and hes making you look like a c@~* for being stupid enough to ever believe him.

Vote yes to AV on Thursday.

Oh, and Nick.....never trust a tory  :y








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Title: Re: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: Terbs on 03 May 2011, 08:25:04
Come on BJ....you can't trust any of them :y
They are only concerned for themselves, their own ego's....it won't change.
WE are the last thing on their minds >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 03 May 2011, 08:34:33
I think the change to AV would result in an even more undesirable governing group in Westminster, for the very reasons you outline BJ. ;D ;D

The phrase 'never trust a Tory' should really be amended to read 'Never trust a politician' such is the disrepute that now attaches to many of those who do eventually make it through those hallowed portals, where they appear to then succumb – quite readily - to the heady aroma of power and to the whiff of money that seems to be easily made in exchange for little effort.

The political classes are asking us (in AV) to ratify a change to the present system that will ensure the voters of this country will find it all but impossible to rid Westminster of the governing group, as deals will be done at all costs by the largest party of the group to keep power where they consider it belongs.

To my mind;

FPTP (with boundary/constituency/seat changes to achieve a more representative cross-section of potential candidates relevant to the constituency) remains the most desirable means of electing politicians to Westminster – single party in, single party out if they make a hash of things.

AV results in too much horse-trading, too many people trying to achieve their goal by comprising their principles to gain (and maintain) power, and a permanency in the ability of the main party to remain in office despite the desire by voters to say otherwise.

In short, had we been running the AV system over the past few elections we may well have remained basking under the sun of plenty that was New Labour.

Coalition governments seldom work successfully – as can be seen in what we presently have at Westminster.
Title: Re: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: albitz on 03 May 2011, 08:53:37
The only possible way AV will get through is if there is almost complete apathy from the electorate, allowing the zealots to win with a very low turnout.
Never trust a Tory ? - ok maybe, but the Limpdems have, since the election shown themselves to be the most unprincipled, dishonest untrustworty bunch of sh1ts imaginable.
As for politicians telling lies - take a bit of time to research what Clegg was saying a year or so ago, and what he says now. U turns doesnt begin to cover it. ;)
Huhne was on TV at the weekend comparing his cabinet colleagues - who disagree with him on this issue - to the nazis ffs ! :o
I dont think someone from North of the wall ahs any business offering advice on thie matter, as there is no vote on it taking place in Scotland. ::)
Title: Re: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: Nickbat on 03 May 2011, 09:28:18
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Oh, and Nick.....never trust a tory  :y

"It's time we pulled out the thorn and healed the wound, time for a debate politicians have been too cowardly to hold for 30 years - time for a referendum on the big question. Do we want to be in or out? Nobody in Britain under the age of 51 has ever been asked that simple question. None of them were eligible to vote in that 1975 referendum. That includes half of all MPs. Two generations have never had their say."


Nick Clegg on the reasons why we should have a Referendum on EU membership, Monday 25 February 2008.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/feb/25/eu.liberaldemocrats

NEVER trust a LimpDem.  ;) >:(
Title: Re: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: Kevin Wood on 03 May 2011, 09:30:57
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I dont think someone from North of the wall ahs any business offering advice on thie matter, as there is no vote on it taking place in Scotland. ::)

That's not my understanding. I thought it was UK wide. :-?
Title: Re: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: markfree on 03 May 2011, 10:59:22
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The only possible way AV will get through is if there is almost complete apathy from the electorate, allowing the zealots to win with a very low turnout.
Never trust a Tory ? - ok maybe, but the Limpdems have, since the election shown themselves to be the most unprincipled, dishonest untrustworty bunch of sh1ts imaginable.
As for politicians telling lies - take a bit of time to research what Clegg was saying a year or so ago, and what he says now. U turns doesnt begin to cover it. ;)
Huhne was on TV at the weekend comparing his cabinet colleagues - who disagree with him on this issue - to the nazis ffs ! :o
I dont think someone from North of the wall ahs any business offering advice on thie matter, as there is no vote on it taking place in Scotland. ::)[/quote]

I have just voted, by postal ballot, in favour of AV, so you are definitely wrong  ::)
Title: Re: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: Banjax on 03 May 2011, 11:03:17
I think it would do England good if we north of the border voted AV for them  :y

They just don't realise it yet as its "too complicated"....bless  ;)
Title: Re: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: albitz on 03 May 2011, 15:51:41
My understanding was that Scotland already had a form of PR, but thin king about it that may be for Scottish elections only.
I forgot you lot were allowed to vote for the English parliament as well. :D ;D
Title: Re: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: Nickbat on 03 May 2011, 16:16:46
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They just don't realise it yet as its "too complicated"....bless  ;)

Too complicated for John Humphrys, too!  ;) ;D

http://order-order.com/2011/05/03/humphrys-stumped-thrice/
Title: Re: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: Kevin Wood on 03 May 2011, 16:19:31
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They just don't realise it yet as its "too complicated"....bless  ;)

Too complicated for John Humphrys, too!  ;) ;D

http://order-order.com/2011/05/03/humphrys-stumped-thrice/

Yes, nearly spat my bran flakes out when I heard that one this morning. ;D
Title: Re: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: Banjax on 03 May 2011, 22:51:06
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They just don't realise it yet as its "too complicated"....bless  ;)

Too complicated for John Humphrys, too!  ;) ;D

http://order-order.com/2011/05/03/humphrys-stumped-thrice/



ah - i see what you've done there, you believed David Cameron - common mistake  ;D

OK 1) FPTP is used in other countries....erm.....parts of Canada......Azerbahjan, Solomon Islands.....I'm sure there are others - please check  :o

2) You don't count votes more than once - does anyone need me to explain this? Really?  :o

OK quickly then - lets say you live in a Tory stronghold and vote BNP first, UKIP second and Tories third - in the first round BNP have the least votes so they're all binned and BNP drop out, second round UKIP are now last so their votes are all binned, by the third round your Tory vote now counts and they get a majority....only your tory vote (albeit third in your order) has been counted as your top two choices were unpopular with the majority........seemples  :y

3) Most Labour - Ed Milliband and the party line as well as almost all LibDems want a yes vote.......



so in summation, DC is wrong but slippery, JH was right but let him off the hook  ;)





never trust a tory - easy when you know how  :y
Title: Re: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: aaronjb on 03 May 2011, 22:59:59
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiHuiDD_oTk[/media]
Title: Re: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: Andy B on 03 May 2011, 23:02:46
The Alternative Vote in action  ;D ;D ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT9rEZqvSu8  :y
Title: Re: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: Nickbat on 03 May 2011, 23:03:04
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They just don't realise it yet as its "too complicated"....bless  ;)

Too complicated for John Humphrys, too!  ;) ;D

http://order-order.com/2011/05/03/humphrys-stumped-thrice/



ah - i see what you've done there, you believed David Cameron - common mistake  ;D

OK 1) FPTP is used in other countries....erm.....parts of Canada......Azerbahjan, Solomon Islands.....I'm sure there are others - please check  :o

2) You don't count votes more than once - does anyone need me to explain this? Really?  :o

OK quickly then - lets say you live in a Tory stronghold and vote BNP first, UKIP second and Tories third - in the first round BNP have the least votes so they're all binned and BNP drop out, second round UKIP are now last so their votes are all binned, by the third round your Tory vote now counts and they get a majority....only your tory vote (albeit third in your order) has been counted as your top two choices were unpopular with the majority........seemples  :y

3) Most Labour - Ed Milliband and the party line as well as almost all LibDems want a yes vote.......



so in summation, DC is wrong but slippery, JH was right but let him off the hook  ;)





never trust a tory - easy when you know how  :y


Err...Australia, Fiji and Papua New Guinea are the only three countries that use AV... ;) ;D

"Most Labour - Ed Milliband and the party line as well as almost all LibDems want a yes vote......."

Enough to make me vote "No" ;) ;D

Title: Re: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: Banjax on 03 May 2011, 23:06:52
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Quote
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They just don't realise it yet as its "too complicated"....bless  ;)

Too complicated for John Humphrys, too!  ;) ;D

http://order-order.com/2011/05/03/humphrys-stumped-thrice/



ah - i see what you've done there, you believed David Cameron - common mistake  ;D

OK 1) FPTP is used in other countries....erm.....parts of Canada......Azerbahjan, Solomon Islands.....I'm sure there are others - please check  :o

2) You don't count votes more than once - does anyone need me to explain this? Really?  :o

OK quickly then - lets say you live in a Tory stronghold and vote BNP first, UKIP second and Tories third - in the first round BNP have the least votes so they're all binned and BNP drop out, second round UKIP are now last so their votes are all binned, by the third round your Tory vote now counts and they get a majority....only your tory vote (albeit third in your order) has been counted as your top two choices were unpopular with the majority........seemples  :y

3) Most Labour - Ed Milliband and the party line as well as almost all LibDems want a yes vote.......



so in summation, DC is wrong but slippery, JH was right but let him off the hook  ;)





never trust a tory - easy when you know how  :y


Err...Australia, Fiji and Papua New Guinea are the only three countries that use AV... ;) ;D

"Most Labour - Ed Milliband and the party line as well as almost all LibDems want a yes vote......."

Enough to make me vote "No" ;) ;D



hows that even an argument? more people are chinese than any other nation, most people are muslim than any other religion  :o

dont see your point, frankly  ;)

Title: Re: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: Vamps on 03 May 2011, 23:12:58
Can't be bothered to read all this, and do not understand AV and have already voted, by post. No....so 4 No votes from the Vamps household.... :y :y
Title: Re: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: Banjax on 03 May 2011, 23:13:54
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Can't be bothered to read all this, and do not understand AV and have already voted, by post. No....so 4 No votes from the Vamps household.... :y :y


yep...1,2,3 is tricky  ;)
Title: Re: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: Nickbat on 03 May 2011, 23:19:59
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They just don't realise it yet as its "too complicated"....bless  ;)

Too complicated for John Humphrys, too!  ;) ;D

http://order-order.com/2011/05/03/humphrys-stumped-thrice/



ah - i see what you've done there, you believed David Cameron - common mistake  ;D

OK 1) FPTP is used in other countries....erm.....parts of Canada......Azerbahjan, Solomon Islands.....I'm sure there are others - please check  :o

2) You don't count votes more than once - does anyone need me to explain this? Really?  :o

OK quickly then - lets say you live in a Tory stronghold and vote BNP first, UKIP second and Tories third - in the first round BNP have the least votes so they're all binned and BNP drop out, second round UKIP are now last so their votes are all binned, by the third round your Tory vote now counts and they get a majority....only your tory vote (albeit third in your order) has been counted as your top two choices were unpopular with the majority........seemples  :y

3) Most Labour - Ed Milliband and the party line as well as almost all LibDems want a yes vote.......



so in summation, DC is wrong but slippery, JH was right but let him off the hook  ;)





never trust a tory - easy when you know how  :y


Err...Australia, Fiji and Papua New Guinea are the only three countries that use AV... ;) ;D

"Most Labour - Ed Milliband and the party line as well as almost all LibDems want a yes vote......."

Enough to make me vote "No" ;) ;D



hows that even an argument? more people are chinese than any other nation, most people are muslim than any other religion  :o

dont see your point, frankly  ;)



You say that FPTP is used only in a few countries; I respond by saying that AV is only used in a few countries.

How can you not see the point I am making?

Too difficult for you?  ;) ::) ::) ::) ;D
Title: Re: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: albitz on 04 May 2011, 00:16:16
I predict the result will be a big NO. This should have the effect of putting the Limpdems back in the political wilderness where they belong, and the fptp system will regain its validity as we will be back to a two party system again. :)
Title: Re: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: Banjax on 04 May 2011, 04:42:40
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They just don't realise it yet as its "too complicated"....bless  ;)

Too complicated for John Humphrys, too!  ;) ;D

http://order-order.com/2011/05/03/humphrys-stumped-thrice/



ah - i see what you've done there, you believed David Cameron - common mistake  ;D

OK 1) FPTP is used in other countries....erm.....parts of Canada......Azerbahjan, Solomon Islands.....I'm sure there are others - please check  :o

2) You don't count votes more than once - does anyone need me to explain this? Really?  :o

OK quickly then - lets say you live in a Tory stronghold and vote BNP first, UKIP second and Tories third - in the first round BNP have the least votes so they're all binned and BNP drop out, second round UKIP are now last so their votes are all binned, by the third round your Tory vote now counts and they get a majority....only your tory vote (albeit third in your order) has been counted as your top two choices were unpopular with the majority........seemples  :y

3) Most Labour - Ed Milliband and the party line as well as almost all LibDems want a yes vote.......



so in summation, DC is wrong but slippery, JH was right but let him off the hook  ;)





never trust a tory - easy when you know how  :y


Err...Australia, Fiji and Papua New Guinea are the only three countries that use AV... ;) ;D

"Most Labour - Ed Milliband and the party line as well as almost all LibDems want a yes vote......."

Enough to make me vote "No" ;) ;D



hows that even an argument? more people are chinese than any other nation, most people are muslim than any other religion  :o

dont see your point, frankly  ;)



You say that FPTP is used only in a few countries; I respond by saying that AV is only used in a few countries.

How can you not see the point I am making?

Too difficult for you?  ;) ::) ::) ::) ;D


so both systems are used in a few countries...i still dont see the argument....is being used in a few countries good for fptp but bad for av then?  :o

even by that yardstick most parts of the UK dont use FPTP  ::)

AV was fine for the tories to elect DC.....I dont see what his problem is, surely he wants whats best for the country, not his party?  :o

oh yeah soldiers and babies die if we go with AV..........of course......oh, whats that? ah - we're too thick to understand it as well......OK......good points......honestly, who writes this stuff for them? Sarah Palin?  ;D


Title: Re: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: Banjax on 04 May 2011, 04:49:41
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I predict the result will be a big NO. This should have the effect of putting the Limpdems back in the political wilderness where they belong, and the fptp system will regain its validity as we will be back to a two party system again. :)


looks like people cant detach themselves from the moment, AV = Nick Clegg.......boo we dont like him.

Maybe most people are too thick, you know what, just put an 'X' for the next 100 years, because one of the guys supporting AV had to compromise some policies once because no one could decide who won..............humans...pah  ;D

we'll stick to STV up here - enjoy your two party choice down south.......change is a bit too scary...no - you're right, I think I'll vote "no" for you guys, i think i now see that it is a bit too much for you  :y
Title: Re: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: Banjax on 05 May 2011, 01:07:47
a thoughts just struck me..........if we all vote No to AV we'll seal the tories fate, another FPTP election in a few years will almost certainly return a hung parliament, LibDems will never hook up with the tories after seeing how hated they've become, so a Lib/Lab pact ensues with a promise of full PR as a sweetener ..........just say "No"  :y
Title: Re: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: mantahatch on 05 May 2011, 07:39:12
Please get it right chaps. The saying is "never trust a hippy" (Malcolm Mclaren I think)   ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: mantahatch on 05 May 2011, 07:40:40
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a thoughts just struck me..........if we all vote No to AV we'll seal the tories fate, another FPTP election in a few years will almost certainly return a hung parliament, LibDems will never hook up with the tories after seeing how hated they've become, so a Lib/Lab pact ensues with a promise of full PR as a sweetener ..........just say "No"  :y


Jusr remind me BJ, how did the last lib/lab pact end ?   ;D
Title: Re: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: Banjax on 05 May 2011, 09:23:24
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Quote
a thoughts just struck me..........if we all vote No to AV we'll seal the tories fate, another FPTP election in a few years will almost certainly return a hung parliament, LibDems will never hook up with the tories after seeing how hated they've become, so a Lib/Lab pact ensues with a promise of full PR as a sweetener ..........just say "No"  :y


Jusr remind me BJ, how did the last lib/lab pact end ?   ;D

i'm not saying its a good thing, merely predicting what will happen - and if the outcome is full PR and the tories cast into the political wilderness then that'll do - all governments suck so if theirs a way to get rid of the worst thats a start  :y


just say no ;)
Title: Re: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: Kevin Wood on 05 May 2011, 09:29:13
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Jusr remind me BJ, how did the last lib/lab pact end ?   ;D

About as badly as could be expected, in my recollection. ;D

A Lib/Lab pact with Millipede at the wheel. Imagine that! .. and we think we're in the sh1t now?

Best buy more shovels. ;)
Title: Re: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: Nickbat on 05 May 2011, 09:58:46
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looks like people cant detach themselves from the moment, AV = Nick Clegg.......boo we dont like him.
:y

I'm finding it hard to detach myself from the fact that Chris Buffhuhne may resign if we have a No vote. Now, that in itself is a valid reason to vote No.
 ;)
Title: Re: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: albitz on 05 May 2011, 10:07:12
I didnt know that Nick. Im just trying to think of a way I could vote many times (say a couple of million) to help him on his way.
There are quite a few among the Limpdems who have enormous ego,s yet are stupid beyond all comprehension - he is at the top of the pile though imo. :y ;D
Title: Re: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: Nickbat on 05 May 2011, 10:17:41
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I didnt know that Nick. Im just trying to think of a way I could vote many times (say a couple of million) to help him on his way.
There are quite a few among the Limpdems who have enormous ego,s yet are stupid beyond all comprehension - he is at the top of the pile though imo. :y ;D

Yes, Albs, it's still only a may resign, but he's created such a stir over the vote in the last few days that his position would be untenable, IMHO.

http://order-order.com/2011/05/03/huhnes-no-tarzan/
 :y
Title: Re: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: Martin_1962 on 05 May 2011, 10:48:55
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Quote
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a thoughts just struck me..........if we all vote No to AV we'll seal the tories fate, another FPTP election in a few years will almost certainly return a hung parliament, LibDems will never hook up with the tories after seeing how hated they've become, so a Lib/Lab pact ensues with a promise of full PR as a sweetener ..........just say "No"  :y


Jusr remind me BJ, how did the last lib/lab pact end ?   ;D

i'm not saying its a good thing, merely predicting what will happen - and if the outcome is full PR and the tories cast into the political wilderness then that'll do - all governments suck so if theirs a way to get rid of the worst thats a start  :y


just say no ;)


Economy always seems knackered after a Labour government.

I'd say they are worst.
Title: Re: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: Martin_1962 on 05 May 2011, 10:50:19
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Quote
Jusr remind me BJ, how did the last lib/lab pact end ?   ;D

About as badly as could be expected, in my recollection. ;D

A Lib/Lab pact with Millipede at the wheel. Imagine that! .. and we think we're in the sh1t now?

Best buy more shovels. ;)


A lot deeper.

Who is Ed Millipede anyway?

I do not know anyone who rates him.
Title: Re: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: Kevin Wood on 05 May 2011, 10:56:06
Quote

Yes, Albs, it's still only a may resign, but he's created such a stir over the vote in the last few days that his position would be untenable, IMHO.

http://order-order.com/2011/05/03/huhnes-no-tarzan/
 :y

Quote
Perhaps Huhne’s mistress, Carina Trimingham. who is on the “Yes to AV” campaign, has him on a Lysistrata-like no-win-no-lay policy.

Fantastic. ;D
Title: Re: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 05 May 2011, 11:52:26
I would say that the electoral system in this country needs an overhaul, without doubt - but would add that AV, STV, additional member, call it what you will, simply leads to cluster opps government. :y

The teats soon run dry if everyone wants a drink. 8-)
Title: Re: boring political thread concerning AV
Post by: Terbs on 05 May 2011, 13:46:48
To be quite honest, I must be as thick as two short planks cuz I simply don't understand how it works :(
Sounds simple at first but disappears into complexity for me.
Watched it being explained on TV last night....still baffled   :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/