Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Varche on 23 May 2011, 17:31:55

Title: Competition to design a new Electric pylon
Post by: Varche on 23 May 2011, 17:31:55
Saw this on the news this morning and immediately submitted my idea. Bury the new stuff under the ground. Perfect. Costs a bit more but preserves what little countryside we have left.

I won't win of course but it isn't very GREEN to put up more of the damned things. Of course the competition is just a thinly veiled ploy dreamt up by some marketing youth straight out of Uni at the direction of Huhne no doubt to soften us all up.

Big Society? [size=8]Little minds[/size] :'( :'(

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Politics/Pylons-Chris-Huhne-Launches-Competition-To-Change-Design-Of-Electricity-Pylons/Article/201105415997131?f=rss
Title: Re: Competition to design a new Electric pylon
Post by: aaronjb on 23 May 2011, 17:34:08
Surely it's not going to preserve the countryside if you're digging a dirty great trench across hundreds of miles of it?
Title: Re: Competition to design a new Electric pylon
Post by: o-meg-a on 23 May 2011, 17:49:45
green grows back....you'll never even know it was there after a while.

Metal is environmentally more polluting that laying it in soil....The factories which produce the pylons create masses of environmental pollution...
 
And they are an eye sore forever....not just a year or so.
Title: Re: Competition to design a new Electric pylon
Post by: o-meg-a on 23 May 2011, 17:51:54
it always comes down to money....

If there was NO other option but to lay them in the ground....it'd be done.
Title: Re: Competition to design a new Electric pylon
Post by: aaronjb on 23 May 2011, 18:03:13
Fair point, well made  :y

Though I quite like these: http://www.greenlaunches.com/other-stuff/power-lines-turn-creative-with-humanshaped-pylons.php  :-[
Title: Re: Competition to design a new Electric pylon
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 23 May 2011, 18:32:18
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Fair point, well made  :y

Though I quite like these: http://www.greenlaunches.com/other-stuff/power-lines-turn-creative-with-humanshaped-pylons.php  :-[


It's a page not found A. :(
Title: Re: Competition to design a new Electric pylon
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 23 May 2011, 18:42:52
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it always comes down to money....

If there was NO other option but to lay them in the ground....it'd be done.

Yes, I remember that suggestion being made a while ago and someone from the distribution network knocking it back citing the financial implications. 

There was also some technical reason given concerning maintenance where subterranean installations were to be widely adopted.
Title: Re: Competition to design a new Electric pylon
Post by: Jimbob on 23 May 2011, 18:48:07
just remove the ; from the end of the url, smilies at the end cause this
Title: Re: Competition to design a new Electric pylon
Post by: Broomies Mate on 23 May 2011, 18:48:38
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Fair point, well made  :y

Though I quite like these: http://www.greenlaunches.com/other-stuff/power-lines-turn-creative-with-humanshaped-pylons.php  :-[


It's a page not found A. :(

Link fixed for you :)

http://www.greenlaunches.com/other-stuff/power-lines-turn-creative-with-humanshaped-pylons.php

Emoticon at the end of the link buggered it.  ;D
Title: Re: Competition to design a new Electric pylon
Post by: Varche on 23 May 2011, 18:54:08
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it always comes down to money....

If there was NO other option but to lay them in the ground....it'd be done.

Yes, I remember that suggestion being made a while ago and someone from the distribution network knocking it back citing the financial implications

There was also some technical reason given concerning maintenance where subterranean installations were to be widely adopted.


It is said to be 15 times the cost of pylons. It hasn't stopped lines being run underground elsewhere in the UK already. To my mind there is a gross amount of negligence in allowing any more pylons. What planet are these planners living on? (sic). They are needed to add the new power stations onto the grid. Fine factor the cost in then. :y
Title: Re: Competition to design a new Electric pylon
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 23 May 2011, 19:00:37
The transmission losses associated with buried cables are much greater than those suspended from pylons.

If you want to be 'green' then keep them where they are
Title: Re: Competition to design a new Electric pylon
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 23 May 2011, 19:03:53
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Quote
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Fair point, well made  :y

Though I quite like these: http://www.greenlaunches.com/other-stuff/power-lines-turn-creative-with-humanshaped-pylons.php  :-[


It's a page not found A. :(

Link fixed for you :)

http://www.greenlaunches.com/other-stuff/power-lines-turn-creative-with-humanshaped-pylons.php

Emoticon at the end of the link buggered it.  ;D


Thanks R. 8-) :y
Title: Re: Competition to design a new Electric pylon
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 23 May 2011, 19:10:22
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The transmission losses associated with buried cables are much greater than those suspended from pylons.

If you want to be 'green' then keep them where they are

Is this down to additional materials /equipment needed to render subterranean distribution safe?
Title: Re: Competition to design a new Electric pylon
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 23 May 2011, 19:11:44
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Fair point, well made  :y

Though I quite like these: http://www.greenlaunches.com/other-stuff/power-lines-turn-creative-with-humanshaped-pylons.php  :-[


They are striking - no doubt.
Title: Re: Competition to design a new Electric pylon
Post by: CaptainZok on 23 May 2011, 19:13:46
The last sentence of that report gets me.

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And here’s a better touch to it. Owing to the fact that these giant people look pretty human-like, birds will sure stay away from these power lines which mean a sure and electrifying death.

So how do birds get electrocuted then?
Title: Re: Competition to design a new Electric pylon
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 23 May 2011, 19:14:09
Yes but, there is a further issue.

By burying the cables you are effectively creating a hugely capacitive cable (as its surrounded by the electrical earth) which increases losses by a large margin.

Hence why cables are only buried in highly populated areas or areas where they may be detramental to the surroundings (e.g. they buried a length of it across Attenborough Nature reserve in Nottingham when the link was upgraded) and even then, its kept to the shortest distance possible.

Of course maintenance etc is also made considerably harder
Title: Re: Competition to design a new Electric pylon
Post by: Varche on 23 May 2011, 19:17:01
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The transmission losses associated with buried cables are much greater than those suspended from pylons.

If you want to be 'green' then keep them where they are

Blast. Wait a minute build the new power stations in peoples back yards and near conurbations and not in remote rural areas or worse out at sea? :y
Title: Re: Competition to design a new Electric pylon
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 23 May 2011, 19:19:34
DC is the answer......that allows smaller cables to as they run at peak voltage or current all the time (and not for micro seconds as they do on AC). You cna then bury them, put them under water etc etc etc.

Would need a heap of electronics to convert back to AC at the other end though!
Title: Re: Competition to design a new Electric pylon
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 23 May 2011, 19:28:24
As an indicator of the size of the kit needed for DC transmission, here is an aerial shot of the UK end of the DC link between England and France (2GW about 5% of the UK's need)

http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&ll=51.105961,0.975584&spn=0.003072,0.010525&t=h&z=17
Title: Re: Competition to design a new Electric pylon
Post by: Kevin Wood on 24 May 2011, 09:37:47
If we don't get a sensible energy secretary sometime soon, pylons will be the least of our worries.

About time he withdrew his head from his 'arris and tackled the real issues rather than gimmicks like this. ;)

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Blast. Wait a minute build the new power stations in peoples back yards and near conurbations and not in remote rural areas or worse out at sea?

You have to build power stations where the considerable natural resources they require are located, even more so if you're going to use "renewables". You also have to connect them country-wide in a grid if you want secure power, again, especially so if you are going to use more "renewables".

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So how do birds get electrocuted then?

Words fail me.  ;D

All I can say is that if birds are getting that big I'm not going to walk under any pylons in future. ;D

I suspect the reason that pylon design has been unchanged for so long is that the present structures are pretty much optimal and have been designed (by en-gineers ;)) to give maximum strength and stability from minimum material, which is actually what you want from both a cost perspective and to minimise their visual impact, surely? I fail to see how giving them to an artist to re-design will help matters. ;)

Kevin
Title: Re: Competition to design a new Electric pylon
Post by: CaptainZok on 24 May 2011, 13:45:12
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If we don't get a sensible energy secretary sometime soon, pylons will be the least of our worries.

About time he withdrew his head from his 'arris and tackled the real issues rather than gimmicks like this. ;)

Quote
Blast. Wait a minute build the new power stations in peoples back yards and near conurbations and not in remote rural areas or worse out at sea?

You have to build power stations where the considerable natural resources they require are located, even more so if you're going to use "renewables". You also have to connect them country-wide in a grid if you want secure power, again, especially so if you are going to use more "renewables".

Quote
So how do birds get electrocuted then?

Words fail me.  ;D

All I can say is that if birds are getting that big I'm not going to walk under any pylons in future. ;D

I suspect the reason that pylon design has been unchanged for so long is that the present structures are pretty much optimal and have been designed (by en-gineers ;)) to give maximum strength and stability from minimum material, which is actually what you want from both a cost perspective and to minimise their visual impact, surely? I fail to see how giving them to an artist to re-design will help matters. ;)

Kevin

If TB complains about the deposits on the silver bullet now god knows what he'll be saying when one of those drops a dollop. ;D ;D
Title: Re: Competition to design a new Electric pylon
Post by: Kevin Wood on 24 May 2011, 15:59:59
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If TB complains about the deposits on the silver bullet now god knows what he'll be saying when one of those drops a dollop. ;D ;D

Yep. And the air will certainly turn blue when he can't find the silver bullet. ;D
Title: Re: Competition to design a new Electric pylon
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 24 May 2011, 16:05:25
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If TB complains about the deposits on the silver bullet now god knows what he'll be saying when one of those drops a dollop. ;D ;D

Yep. And the air will certainly turn blue when he can't find the silver bullet. ;D


You want to try living opposite 200+ rooks. :-X