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Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: handy on 01 June 2011, 21:47:38

Title: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: handy on 01 June 2011, 21:47:38
Hi everyone,
 
Complete novice on most DIY jobs, and hoping there are a few builders or frame fitters on here
 
 
Ive just moved into a property that has a brick shed without a door,   Ive got a door that fits perfect for the height but about inch short on the width,   anyways its going in there :-)
 
My question is what can i use to fix the frame into the brickwork (facebrick)    ive been reading about the frame fixing screws with the hex head,   do i need to predrill a hole into the brick?   the ones in screwfix are 7.5mmx120mm
so do i need to predrill the hole at 7mm?   Also i will be fitting the hinge side flush againt the brickwork so the 1 inch gap then will be at the door handle end and was going to fill with expanding foam?  and after it sets was going to use the same screws
 
Am i on the right path ??
 
Cheers
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: RobG on 01 June 2011, 21:59:37
Quote
Hi everyone,
 
Complete novice on most DIY jobs, and hoping there are a few builders or frame fitters on here
 
 
Ive just moved into a property that has a brick shed without a door,   Ive got a door that fits perfect for the height but about inch short on the width,   anyways its going in there :-)
 
My question is what can i use to fix the frame into the brickwork (facebrick)    ive been reading about the frame fixing screws with the hex head,   do i need to predrill a hole into the brick?   the ones in screwfix are 7.5mmx120mm
so do i need to predrill the hole at 7mm?   Also i will be fitting the hinge side flush againt the brickwork so the 1 inch gap then will be at the door handle end and was going to fill with expanding foam?  and after it sets was going to use the same screws
 
Am i on the right path ??
 
Cheers
As a window fitter :) you will need a 6.5mm drill bit for the 7.5 torx fixing. As the door is only app. 27mm narrower than opening, pack each side with wedges, fix frame, narrow bead of expanding foam if desired, once foam has cured gun around frame with silicone. Whereabouts are you
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: Plomien on 01 June 2011, 22:02:49
I would put a piece of wood along one side to fill the 1 inch gap and the use raw plugs and screws into the brick work.
the raw plug used should match the drill bit width. so an 8mm raw plug uses an 8mm drill bit then screw in from there  :y
I am not a builder in any form but am not too bad at a bit of DIY
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: RobG on 01 June 2011, 22:09:28
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I would put a piece of wood along one side to fill the 1 inch gap and the use raw plugs and screws into the brick work.
the raw plug used should match the drill bit width. so an 8mm raw plug uses an 8mm drill bit then screw in from there  :y
I am not a builder in any form but am not too bad at a bit of DIY
Nope, timber, unless pressure treated is a complete waste of time. Nope again, you don`t fit PVCu frames with plugs & screws, and you don`t fix using the so called "UPVC sleeved screws. You use "torx" fixings and as said, drill bit is 1mm less diameter than the actual fixing. Been fitting windows, doors & conservatories long enough ;)
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: Ken T on 01 June 2011, 22:13:57
I used a rawlplug type thing specially for fitting UPVC windows.

http://www.screwfix.com/p/window-anchor-8-x-100mm-pack-of-10/16018

basically drill a hole straight thro the frame and into the brick, put in the fixing, a light hammer in, a last turn on the screw to tighten and jobs a good 'un. A quick seal with sealant helps if the brickwork is uneven and keeps it water tight. The idea of using wood to pack out is good, give it a good coat of paint first. Pressure treated is a good idea, lots of timber merchants have it.

Its so easy to do, makes you wonder why they charge so much to fit windows  ::) ::) ::)

Ken
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: handy on 01 June 2011, 22:14:42
cheers guys,   looks like its the torx screws all the way
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: RobG on 01 June 2011, 22:19:56
Quote
I used a rawlplug type thing specially for fitting UPVC windows.
http://www.screwfix.com/p/window-anchor-8-x-100mm-pack-of-10/16018

basically drill a hole straight thro the frame and into the brick, put in the fixing, a light hammer in, a last turn on the screw to tighten and jobs a good 'un. A quick seal with sealant helps if the brickwork is uneven and keeps it water tight. The idea of using wood to pack out is good, give it a good coat of paint first. Pressure treated is a good idea, lots of timber merchants have it.

Its so easy to do, makes you wonder why they charge so much to fit windows  ::) ::) ::)

Ken
Vast majority of "proper" window fitters won`t touch those with a barge pole :P :P
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: Big_Al on 01 June 2011, 22:22:33
As Rob G says,  Torx fixings  into 1mm undersize holes. Make sure you wedge at or very close to  the actual fixing points. Also very important  get it nice & square & plumb !

Once fixed , expanding foam around gap between  frame & masonry. Let dry , best overnight, trim off excess with stanley knife or similar.

Finish with a nice 20mm ish flat D section glued on with upvc superglue & accelerator  to cover foam filling, silicon seal  around outside of frame  - Job done !

Lots of brownie points from SWMBO to be collected  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: handy on 01 June 2011, 22:25:11
will a 6mm drill bit be ok for the 7.5mm fixings or has it got to be the 6.5mm  ,   Got some 6mm sds bits in the shed so rather than buy another
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: RobG on 01 June 2011, 22:30:48
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will a 6mm drill bit be ok for the 7.5mm fixings or has it got to be the 6.5mm  ,   Got some 6mm sds bits in the shed so rather than buy another
7.5mm torx will drive through a 6mm hole with a decent drill. May have to switch to reverse once or twice
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: Big_Al on 01 June 2011, 22:30:49
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will a 6mm drill bit be ok for the 7.5mm fixings or has it got to be the 6.5mm  ,   Got some 6mm sds bits in the shed so rather than buy another


Ummm ! :-/ :-/  sure the ones i use are 11mm fixings & a 10mm hole. :-/ :-/

Rob  G will advise in a mo I'm sure :y :y
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: RobG on 01 June 2011, 22:32:33
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Quote
will a 6mm drill bit be ok for the 7.5mm fixings or has it got to be the 6.5mm  ,   Got some 6mm sds bits in the shed so rather than buy another


Ummm ! :-/ :-/  sure the ones i use are 11mm fixings & a 10mm hole. :-/ :-/

Rob  G will advise in a mo I'm sure :y :y
:o :o :o Standard is 7.5mm torx & 6.5mm bit
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: handy on 01 June 2011, 22:33:35
was going to buy these

http://www.screwfix.com/p/frame-fixing-7-5-x-122mm-pack-of-100/81227
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: RobG on 01 June 2011, 22:34:42
Quote
As Rob G says,  Torx fixings  into 1mm undersize holes. Make sure you wedge at or very close to  the actual fixing points. Also very important  get it nice & square & plumb !

Once fixed , expanding foam around gap between  frame & masonry. Let dry , best overnight, trim off excess with stanley knife or similar.

Finish with a nice 20mm ish flat D section glued on with upvc superglue & accelerator  to cover foam filling, silicon seal  around outside of frame  - Job done !

Lots of brownie points from SWMBO to be collected  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Silicone.............then if it needs to be removed, seemples.
Plastic to plastic..........silicone. Plastic to plaster...........caulk
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: Big_Al on 01 June 2011, 22:34:51
I like a bit of Heavy Duty  Rob  ;D ;D ;D ;D

And instant stick with the old superglue ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: Nickbat on 01 June 2011, 22:34:53
Hi Handy,

As Rob G says, whereabouts are you?

Please fill in your location in your profile. You'd be surprised how many members local to you would help you out with any problems. I speak from experience!  :y
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: Ken T on 01 June 2011, 22:35:02
Quote
Quote
I used a rawlplug type thing specially for fitting UPVC windows.
http://www.screwfix.com/p/window-anchor-8-x-100mm-pack-of-10/16018

basically drill a hole straight thro the frame and into the brick, put in the fixing, a light hammer in, a last turn on the screw to tighten and jobs a good 'un. A quick seal with sealant helps if the brickwork is uneven and keeps it water tight. The idea of using wood to pack out is good, give it a good coat of paint first. Pressure treated is a good idea, lots of timber merchants have it.

Its so easy to do, makes you wonder why they charge so much to fit windows  ::) ::) ::)

Ken
Vast majority of "proper" window fitters won`t touch those with a barge pole :P :P


Why ?.

Ken
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: RobG on 01 June 2011, 22:36:55
Quote
was going to buy these

http://www.screwfix.com/p/frame-fixing-7-5-x-122mm-pack-of-100/81227
That`s the ones. You need a fix 150mm from corners then at app. 3-350mm centres
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: handy on 01 June 2011, 22:40:13
Cardiff here :)
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: RobG on 01 June 2011, 22:42:19
Quote
Quote
Quote
I used a rawlplug type thing specially for fitting UPVC windows.
http://www.screwfix.com/p/window-anchor-8-x-100mm-pack-of-10/16018

basically drill a hole straight thro the frame and into the brick, put in the fixing, a light hammer in, a last turn on the screw to tighten and jobs a good 'un. A quick seal with sealant helps if the brickwork is uneven and keeps it water tight. The idea of using wood to pack out is good, give it a good coat of paint first. Pressure treated is a good idea, lots of timber merchants have it.

Its so easy to do, makes you wonder why they charge so much to fit windows  ::) ::) ::)

Ken
Vast majority of "proper" window fitters won`t touch those with a barge pole :P :P


Why ?.

Ken
If at a later date the door or window needs to be removed for whatever reason, it`s far easier to remove a torx fixing than the sleeved fixings. Reason being, the screw in the plastic sleeve is soft metal and invariably the pozi head will mash up and secondly you will rarely pull the plug from the wall. If you manage to get the screw out you will still have to cut through the plastic sleeve that is stuck in the frame and half in the wall.  :)
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: RobG on 01 June 2011, 22:43:33
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Cardiff here :)
Bit too far for me. Once the door is fixed, let`s hope it doesn`t need "toe & heeling" ;)
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: RobG on 01 June 2011, 22:44:48
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I like a bit of Heavy Duty  Rob  ;D ;D ;D ;D

And instant stick with the old superglue ::) ::) ::)
What are you bloody fitting with an 11mm torx :o ;D
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: Vamps on 01 June 2011, 22:47:31
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Quote
Cardiff here :)
Bit too far for me. Once the door is fixed, let`s hope it doesn`t need "toe & heeling" ;)

Is that the adjustment of the 3 hinges? Mine is doing my head in, to the point that I was going to fix the top and bottom locking bits with an angle grinder...... ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: Ken T on 01 June 2011, 22:47:33
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
I used a rawlplug type thing specially for fitting UPVC windows.
http://www.screwfix.com/p/window-anchor-8-x-100mm-pack-of-10/16018

basically drill a hole straight thro the frame and into the brick, put in the fixing, a light hammer in, a last turn on the screw to tighten and jobs a good 'un. A quick seal with sealant helps if the brickwork is uneven and keeps it water tight. The idea of using wood to pack out is good, give it a good coat of paint first. Pressure treated is a good idea, lots of timber merchants have it.

Its so easy to do, makes you wonder why they charge so much to fit windows  ::) ::) ::)

Ken
Vast majority of "proper" window fitters won`t touch those with a barge pole :P :P


Why ?.

Ken
If at a later date the door or window needs to be removed for whatever reason, it`s far easier to remove a torx fixing than the sleeved fixings. Reason being, the screw in the plastic sleeve is soft metal and invariably the pozi head will mash up and secondly you will rarely pull the plug from the wall. If you manage to get the screw out you will still have to cut through the plastic sleeve that is stuck in the frame and half in the wall.  :)


Aha, thanks for thanks for the explanation.

Cheers Ken
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: handy on 01 June 2011, 22:49:58
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Cardiff here :)
Bit too far for me. Once the door is fixed, let`s hope it doesn`t need "toe & heeling" ;)

say what??
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: RobG on 01 June 2011, 22:51:46
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Quote
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Cardiff here :)
Bit too far for me. Once the door is fixed, let`s hope it doesn`t need "toe & heeling" ;)

Is that the adjustment of the 3 hinges? Mine is doing my head in, to the point that I was going to fix the top and bottom locking bits with an angle grinder...... ::) ::) ::)
What style of door Vamps, half glass/midrail/reinf. panel below or has it got a full height "feature panel" :question
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: aaronjb on 01 June 2011, 22:54:58
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Quote
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Cardiff here :)
Bit too far for me. Once the door is fixed, let`s hope it doesn`t need "toe & heeling" ;)

Is that the adjustment of the 3 hinges? Mine is doing my head in, to the point that I was going to fix the top and bottom locking bits with an angle grinder...... ::) ::) ::)

Is it as bad as trying to get a kitchen cabinet door to close properly? I hate that job..
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: Vamps on 01 June 2011, 22:55:57
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Quote
Quote
Quote
Cardiff here :)
Bit too far for me. Once the door is fixed, let`s hope it doesn`t need "toe & heeling" ;)

Is that the adjustment of the 3 hinges? Mine is doing my head in, to the point that I was going to fix the top and bottom locking bits with an angle grinder...... ::) ::) ::)
What style of door Vamps, half glass/midrail/reinf. panel below or has it got a full height "feature panel" :question

Half glass 2 tall leaded / decorative panes and a panelled bottom half. Problem is when you have to push the handle up to lock, very difficult, have had a few goes at adjusting it..... ::) ::) :-[ :-[
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: Vamps on 01 June 2011, 22:57:14
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Quote
Quote
Quote
Cardiff here :)
Bit too far for me. Once the door is fixed, let`s hope it doesn`t need "toe & heeling" ;)

Is that the adjustment of the 3 hinges? Mine is doing my head in, to the point that I was going to fix the top and bottom locking bits with an angle grinder...... ::) ::) ::)

Is it as bad as trying to get a kitchen cabinet door to close properly? I hate that job..
[/highlight]

Much much worse...... :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: RobG on 01 June 2011, 22:57:16
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Quote
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Cardiff here :)
Bit too far for me. Once the door is fixed, let`s hope it doesn`t need "toe & heeling" ;)

Is that the adjustment of the 3 hinges? Mine is doing my head in, to the point that I was going to fix the top and bottom locking bits with an angle grinder...... ::) ::) ::)

Is it as bad as trying to get a kitchen cabinet door to close properly? I hate that job..
Both easy 8-)
Toe & heeling? read this. http://www.windowsanddoors.co.uk/estimate/windowsanddoorsinstallation.html
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: RobG on 01 June 2011, 22:58:22
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Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Cardiff here :)
Bit too far for me. Once the door is fixed, let`s hope it doesn`t need "toe & heeling" ;)

Is that the adjustment of the 3 hinges? Mine is doing my head in, to the point that I was going to fix the top and bottom locking bits with an angle grinder...... ::) ::) ::)
What style of door Vamps, half glass/midrail/reinf. panel below or has it got a full height "feature panel" :question

Half glass 2 tall leaded / decorative panes and a panelled bottom half. Problem is when you have to push the handle up to lock, very difficult, have had a few goes at adjusting it..... ::) ::) :-[ :-[
PM with a link for you to keep in "favourites" ;D
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: aaronjb on 01 June 2011, 23:04:01
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Both easy 8-)

Show off :P

Here's a question (sorry, I'll just borrow this thread for it ;)) - anyone know if it's permissible to replace a window (garden facing) with a set of patio doors (same width as the window) without getting building regs etc approval? The 'planning portal' is suitably vague, as always.
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: Nick W on 01 June 2011, 23:17:58
Quote
Quote
Quote
I used a rawlplug type thing specially for fitting UPVC windows.
http://www.screwfix.com/p/window-anchor-8-x-100mm-pack-of-10/16018

basically drill a hole straight thro the frame and into the brick, put in the fixing, a light hammer in, a last turn on the screw to tighten and jobs a good 'un. A quick seal with sealant helps if the brickwork is uneven and keeps it water tight. The idea of using wood to pack out is good, give it a good coat of paint first. Pressure treated is a good idea, lots of timber merchants have it.

Its so easy to do, makes you wonder why they charge so much to fit windows  ::) ::) ::)

Ken
Vast majority of "proper" window fitters won`t touch those with a barge pole :P :P


Why ?.

Ken


I'd like to know too, as I used to buy and issue thousands of the things to window fitters.

That said, one of them was insistent that he only ever used foam and no fixings, even for doors. He wasn't with us for long!
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: RobG on 02 June 2011, 00:20:37
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Quote
Both easy 8-)

Show off :P

Here's a question (sorry, I'll just borrow this thread for it ;)) - anyone know if it's permissible to replace a window (garden facing) with a set of patio doors (same width as the window) without getting building regs etc approval? The 'planning portal' is suitably vague, as always.
Generally no, but a phone call to the local authority would be prudent. Be advised that if you do this yourself you will need  a building regulation completion certificate from your local authority (charge varies) or a FENSA certificate from a registered installer
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: aaronjb on 02 June 2011, 17:21:07
Quote
Quote
Quote
Both easy 8-)

Show off :P

Here's a question (sorry, I'll just borrow this thread for it ;)) - anyone know if it's permissible to replace a window (garden facing) with a set of patio doors (same width as the window) without getting building regs etc approval? The 'planning portal' is suitably vague, as always.
Generally no, but a phone call to the local authority would be prudent. Be advised that if you do this yourself you will need  a building regulation completion certificate from your local authority (charge varies) or a FENSA certificate from a registered installer

Hmm, sounds like it'll be easier just to get a window company in to do it. An Englishman's home is his castle, as long as he doesn't do anything to it.. (like electrics, windows, doors..)
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: RobG on 02 June 2011, 17:28:11
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Both easy 8-)

Show off :P

Here's a question (sorry, I'll just borrow this thread for it ;)) - anyone know if it's permissible to replace a window (garden facing) with a set of patio doors (same width as the window) without getting building regs etc approval? The 'planning portal' is suitably vague, as always.
Generally no, but a phone call to the local authority would be prudent. Be advised that if you do this yourself you will need  a building regulation completion certificate from your local authority (charge varies) or a FENSA certificate from a registered installer

Hmm, sounds like it'll be easier just to get a window company in to do it. An Englishman's home is his castle, as long as he doesn't do anything to it.. (like electrics, windows, doors..)
If you don`t envisage moving house for a few years don`t worry about the certs :y
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: Big_Al on 02 June 2011, 17:29:37
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Quote
I like a bit of Heavy Duty  Rob  ;D ;D ;D ;D

And instant stick with the old superglue ::) ::) ::)
What are you bloody fitting with an 11mm torx :o ;D


sorry mate - was working from memory - not done any for a while - just been in the van & looked -they are 7.5 mm not 11mm ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

bit too heavy 11's  :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
Title: Re: fitting upvc door frame
Post by: aaronjb on 02 June 2011, 17:33:59
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Both easy 8-)

Show off :P

Here's a question (sorry, I'll just borrow this thread for it ;)) - anyone know if it's permissible to replace a window (garden facing) with a set of patio doors (same width as the window) without getting building regs etc approval? The 'planning portal' is suitably vague, as always.
Generally no, but a phone call to the local authority would be prudent. Be advised that if you do this yourself you will need  a building regulation completion certificate from your local authority (charge varies) or a FENSA certificate from a registered installer

Hmm, sounds like it'll be easier just to get a window company in to do it. An Englishman's home is his castle, as long as he doesn't do anything to it.. (like electrics, windows, doors..)
If you don`t envisage moving house for a few years don`t worry about the certs :y

For a few years? I'm not sure I can contemplate ever moving again ;D apart from anything else, I can't hope to afford anything better  :D (nice though it would be to get away from the pikey neighbour!)

The door will have to wait anyway, until the garden is done - the current patio doors now open out onto 6' of concrete and then the wall of the house next door (after the previous owners children sold off half the garden to a pikeydeveloper) and they'd be much better where the (identical width) window is that looks out onto the remaining garden..

That is once the garden is more than a building site/jungle (the perils of a house where the previous occupants had lived out their remaining years)..

(http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/249276_10150261928021204_672941203_8880632_6209609_n.jpg)

The big green bush .. things actually take up ~50% of the plan area of the garden. I need a flame thrower ;D