Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Nickbat on 28 June 2011, 15:52:54
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Whatever your views on the strike action by teachers (and other public sector workers), it seems quite concerning to me that a pupil should come home from school to announce that they have been told by their teacher that they are going on strike because "they pay the government money every month and when they get old they will only get half of it back."
Apart from the obvious fact that 10-year olds cannot understand pensions, it is quite wrong of any teacher to impart political assertions without balancing such words with opposing views.
Actually, it's not only wrong, but unlawful. >:(
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Agreed. It leaves a very bad taste. >:(
I can remember teachers when I was at school rightly refused to get into any political debate nor state their opinions on any political matter.
Kevin
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The teacher who said it should be dismissed imo, and in a perfect world, so should all of the ones who go on strike.
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...., and in a perfect world, so should all of the ones who go on strike.
good job the world is far from perfect then.
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Sack the lot of them. And the other civil servants. Draft in a new mob of civil servants who are in touch with the real world >:(
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The teacher who said it should be dismissed imo, and in a perfect world, so should all of the ones who go on strike.
You've been inhaling the Daily Mail again Albs... ;)
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Whenever teachers unions were mentioned at school we took the piss out of them.
"you are nuts"
"you must be nuts"
"nutcase" ect ect
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My daughter is a teacher and she's going to work.
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My daughter is a teacher and she's going to work.
My missus is going to work....but there won't be any kids there. School is such a nice place without children. :P
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The teacher who said it should be dismissed imo, and in a perfect world, so should all of the ones who go on strike.
You've been inhaling the Daily Mail again Albs... ;)
Please tell us all where the money will come from to give in to their demands ?
Perhaps you are happy to have even more taken from your pension fund to fund theirs, but I (and I suspect the majority of people) am not.
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The teacher who said it should be dismissed imo, and in a perfect world, so should all of the ones who go on strike.
You've been inhaling the Daily Mail again Albs... ;)
ahh, the sweet scent of "outraged in Tumbridge Wells" the new perfume from Daily Fail.
Bottled in China.
Also available from our online shop (staffed in India): "Outraged of Tumbridge Wells" scented candles.
warning: matches supplied will fail to strike
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I had an interesting
argument debate with a friend who is a teacher. She started complaining, wrongly, that Police and Military pensions were not being touched in the cutbacks and why should soldiers be called heros and teachers not. Her last comment actually made me laugh - if it wasnt for teachers there would be no soldiers and thus no heros!
I thought that a large chunk of the infantry soldiers join because the education system had failed them? Well that was like throwing a match into a petrol can....fireworks! Not to mention all her colleagues piling in as well! ::)
Now I know that teachers have a difficult job but a little perspective needed perhaps? I am sure many of the guys in Afghan right now would gladly swap places with her ;)
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A perfect example of just how out of touch with reality some of the teachers etc. have become. The overblown sense of entitlement and self worth from supposedly intelligent people is pretty ludicrous.
Sounds like your teacher friend needs to do a bit more studying. Could start with reading a few definitions of the word "hero". I cant see a dictionary including" giving instructions on the 6 times table" among the examples given. ::)
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Its not a great a "gold plated" pension that everyone goes on about. I was in the LGP scheme for 10 years before I lost my job, and to be honest, it's break all especially after they increased our contributions significantly....... but had us on a pay freeze for the last 2 years!
The only "gold plated" pensions are well up the ladder, not the grunts on the ground working hard everyday! >:(
I'm not for/against the strike a such, but all you hear about is how "big" a pension we all supposedly get.... wish I knew where mine was then :-?
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A perfect example of just how out of touch with reality some of the teachers etc. have become. The overblown sense of entitlement and self worth from supposedly intelligent people is pretty ludicrous.
Sounds like your teacher friend needs to do a bit more studying. Could start with reading a few definitions of the word "hero". I cant see a dictionary including" giving instructions on the 6 times table" among the examples given. ::)
being paid to get shot at isn't my idea of a hero either, most forces would agree - they're not heroic, they're doing a job much like firemen, police, nurses and teachers...........it always surprises me when people bang on about how cushy and easy life is being a teacher.....go do it then, all you need is a degree.....the whistleing silence from the better paid private sector* is almost deafening ::)
*oh yes, I'm fully aware of Mr Camerons attempts to claim public sector workers are better paid, but I suggest you look into that particular nugget of information....did you know for example, that public sector pay only overtook average private sector when those banks were nationalised and are now classed as "public sector" for the purposes of nonsensical and misleading "statistics"........ :y
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A revealing exchange between Today's Evan Davis and the Cabinet Office Minister Francis Maude set the scene for today's strike over public sector pensions.
Maude claimed that public sector pensions are unaffordable. The prime minister went further recently claiming that the "pension system is in danger of going broke". Yet Davis unsettled the minister when he quoted figures from the independent and government-commissioned Hutton Report showing that the cost of public sector pensions is actually projected to fall as a share of national income (from 1.9% of GDP this year to 1.4 % in 2060).
So, how then can the government claim they are unaffordable?
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The government has described upcoming strikes over pension changes as "regrettable, unnecessary and premature", insisting that, following Lord Hutton's landmark report, the current system is not affordable.
But the Institute of Fiscal Studies has questioned that analysis, with the organisation's Carl Emmerson stating that "affordability is not a very good argument for making these schemes [public sector pensions] less generous".
With a gradual decline in the proportion of the national budget spent on public pensions predicted over the long-term, he said, "if we want to afford them we can".
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its all kicking off here, looking down The Strand....
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/803897/Random/Photo%2030-06-2011%2012%2025%2013.jpeg)
Something kicked off and few people dragged out, it all came to a halt. They kept chanting, "let them go" - Why the police did not drag them out of sight is beyond me. Soon as they moved them away (after about 40 mins!) it all kept chuggin on:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/803897/Random/Photo%2030-06-2011%2012%2037%2011.jpeg)
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Dont suppose you happen to have a good stock of tear gas in your flat Tunnie ? ::) ;D ;D............rather morons, starve them into submission. ;)
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it was funny watching it all kick off, constant drone of police choppers in the Sky got annoying though.
Its all moved on down to Parliament now, sadly no tear gas here. I wanted to yell my own 'chants' out the window. But all windows in this office block are locked :o
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Sack the lot of them. And the other civil servants. Draft in a new mob of civil servants who are in touch with the real world >:(
Attitudes like this are truly, truly depressing.
Yes, sack every one of us who provide you lot with public services. What a clever thing to say. You would be the absolute first in line complaining about your right to health / education / having your bin collected should these services be slaughtered in that manner. Think about what you say.
Is anyone here willing to claim that the following is fair:
We have to pay more into a pension scheme (a day's salary out of a month), for longer (until we're 68), and we will get nothing back.
This is NOT a pension reform. It's a straight forward pay cut. Should I also mention that I stand to get virtually no payrise at all for the next two years, which, on top of a 3.5% pay cut from the pension increase, is a further 10% with inflation as it is?
Is a 13.5% paycut fair for me and people like me? I'm certainly not a high earner.
The public sector, civil servants, and nobody on this forum caused the recession, unless you were taking monumental risks in the financial sector. Why should ANY OF US be prepared to pay for it?
It's absolutely ridiculous that people on here are HAPPY that we are apparently being "brought down" to the "real world".
What a fantastic race to the bottom. Why can't private sector pensions be brought UP to MEET the so-called "gold-plated" standard that we supposedly have.
Fun fact: Your average Civil Service pension scheme is roughly £5,000.
Fun fact: The only people who's pension schemes are protected in the public sector are those who have MP after their names.
Fun fact: It is THESE people who have gold-plated pensions.
I personally stand to lose well over £100,000 over a 20 year retirement with the proposed changes. Shall we celebrate the fact that my generation of pensioners will live in poverty, having worked harder, for longer?
You damn well better believe we're fighting this, and we have every bloody right to do so.
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As to pensions.
I think they should be organised on an affordable basis, that the money paid in is available to the person paying it in.
It should be self financing.
They should get the same terms as anyone else with a decent private pension for that amount.
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Its absolutely fair imo. The previous govt. expanded the public sector enormously (which in itself gave the unions in the sector more power) they then proceeded to give the public sector in general much more favourable pay and conditions than they previously had. In order to pay for this Gordon Brown imposed a tax levy on each individual pension in the private sector, and at a stroke all but destroyed what had been one of the best pension sectors in the world.
In short - my pension fund has already been plundered to pay for yours, and Im sorry, but Im jnot willing to pay any more.
The public sector needs to shrink drastically, in numbers and in power/influence.
I dont take too much notice of the stats posted earlier in the thread - we all know the saying about statistics. I dont see why the public sector should have the right to retire earlier than the rest of us, on higher pensions than the rest of us, and have a guarenteed amount of pension on retirement. If the amount to be paid in pension doesnt depend on the returns on the money invested for the pension then the shortfall can only be paid from one source - the rest of us.
We must have a public sector, and they desrve reasonable pay and conditions for what they do, but in the last decade or so we have got way beyond that. To the point where some in the sector believe that they are entitled to whatever they demand, regardless of the state of the economy at large.
The public sector has grown enormously, the private sector is shrinking, so for the public sector to keep its manning level and pay / conditions, we in the private sector will ahve to keep paying more - no thanks, enough is enough.
The private sector has had to take its share of the pain in the last few years and now its the public sectors turn. They cant be and shouldnt be immune.
Pay cuts are nothing new in the private sector. I havent had a pay rise for donkeys years, and in fact am earning the same as I was 20 years ago. Thats the financial reality in the real world Im afraid. If the money isnt coming in it cant be paid out.
Dont let your union leaders brainwash you that there is a money tree in the back garden of the teasury, there isnt.
The services you mention - by and large, they are imo a shambles. They cost infinitely more tha they used to,and mostly provide a much worse service than they used to.
Nothing personal against you, I dont know you from Adam. You might be an extremely hard working/ competent public servant, I have no idea. Its about right and wrong imo, not individuals. ;)
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Fully agree Martin. Everyone whether public or private sector (MP,s included) should have pretty much the same pension arrangements. Employer and employee pay an amount per month into a fund and that fund is invested until retirement. On retirement the fund then pays the individual a pension - seemples. :y
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it was funny watching it all kick off, constant drone of police choppers in the Sky got annoying though.
Its all moved on down to Parliament now, sadly no tear gas here. I wanted to yell my own 'chants' out the window. But all windows in this office block are locked :o
love that you capitilise the word "sky" - is that in your contract? ;D ;D ;D
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What everyone fails to realise is that unions are rallying for fair pensions for ALL people, private and public.
The Government is brilliant at driving a wedge between the private and public sectors to turn them against each other, making it far easier to impose cuts upon everyone.
I assure you my facts / statistics are completely verifiable often using Government websites!
Let me put it this way: the proposed changes to the pension schemes, if imposed, will almost certainly cause a huge number of people to pull out of their pension schemes.
The Government rely on this money, and this massive sudden loss could actually cause another recession.
It's in the Government's interests for the economy NOT to impose such ludicrous and unfair changes.
The previous Government did spend more on the public sector, but due to the previous Tory Governments, spending was at an ALL TIME HISTORIC LOW.
The previous Government invested bringing about the 18 week waiting list, and updating school class rooms so they were actually in the 20th century.
Would you rather this sort of public spending didn't happen?
I know that everyone here would be up in arms if their children had to wait months and months for operations or were being taught in leaking mobile classrooms.
The "money tree"; well, how does £123bn in uncollected, avoided and evaded taxes sound? This money should be the Treasury's, but instead wealthy individuals and corporations evade and avoid and the country loses out. A HMRC tax collection officer can get over £600k of taxes collected per year, but the Government are cutting the staff levels at HMRC, not increasing them.
It's hilarious you think the services are a "shambles"; the NHS was actually voted the most efficient health service in Western Europe and it's been reported by PRIVATE research companies that customer satisfaction is at its HIGHEST.
But my sources and inspirations are union based and I see that you believe that "brain washing" takes place, and if you'd rather believe that drastic public spending cuts and job losses is exactly what this country and economy needs, then so be it.
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El33t - well said, I think if we're all honest, most people would rather have the voice of a union standing up for their rights, but this government and a hideously biased media seem hellbent on making ordinary workers out to be the villains of this piece......seems it works on the simpler brains, sadly.....always will and thats just dandy for the tories, the bankers, the land owners - allows them to keep taking a little bit more for themselves see? ;)
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If the country was still being run by the type of clowns who think like you we would be worse of than greece by now. If Cameron doesnt beat the public sector unions into submission we will be where greece is now in the not too distant future.
Please note - tax avoidance is not illegal. Everyone who isnt on PAYE avoids tax if at all possible.Banjax included Im sure ;)
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El33t - well said, I think if we're all honest, most people would rather have the voice of a union standing up for their rights, but this government and a hideously biased media seem hellbent on making ordinary workers out to be the villains of this piece......seems it works on the simpler brains, sadly.....always will and thats just dandy for the tories, the bankers, the land owners - allows them to keep taking a little bit more for themselves see? ;)
Not the BBC surely? I thought Evan Davis' s 'interview' with Francis Maude was very well balanced,............ provided that you are of a leftish persuasion. :-X
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Yep. :y......and the pro stikers bias on Daybreak this morning had to be heard to be believed. Adrian Chiles was talking about how he as a teenager would consider his teachers true heroes for going on strike etc etc......it was rather shockin...the media are certainly very biased.
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Sack the lot of them. And the other civil servants. Draft in a new mob of civil servants who are in touch with the real world >:(
Attitudes like this are truly, truly depressing.
Yes, sack every one of us who provide you lot with public services. What a clever thing to say. You would be the absolute first in line complaining about your right to health / education / having your bin collected should these services be slaughtered in that manner. Think about what you say.
Is anyone here willing to claim that the following is fair:
We have to pay more into a pension scheme (a day's salary out of a month), for longer (until we're 68), and we will get nothing back.
This is NOT a pension reform. It's a straight forward pay cut. Should I also mention that I stand to get virtually no payrise at all for the next two years, which, on top of a 3.5% pay cut from the pension increase, is a further 10% with inflation as it is?
Is a 13.5% paycut fair for me and people like me? I'm certainly not a high earner.
The public sector, civil servants, and nobody on this forum caused the recession, unless you were taking monumental risks in the financial sector. Why should ANY OF US be prepared to pay for it?
It's absolutely ridiculous that people on here are HAPPY that we are apparently being "brought down" to the "real world".
What a fantastic race to the bottom. Why can't private sector pensions be brought UP to MEET the so-called "gold-plated" standard that we supposedly have.
Fun fact: Your average Civil Service pension scheme is roughly £5,000.
Fun fact: The only people who's pension schemes are protected in the public sector are those who have MP after their names.
Fun fact: It is THESE people who have gold-plated pensions.
I personally stand to lose well over £100,000 over a 20 year retirement with the proposed changes. Shall we celebrate the fact that my generation of pensioners will live in poverty, having worked harder, for longer?
You damn well better believe we're fighting this, and we have every bloody right to do so.
I really can't see how a final salary scheme for some with a decent amount of service behind them would pay out so little. I heard this figure on the radio this morning also and would really like to see a breakdown of how it was calculated.
I'd assumed that a full career in public service would pay about 50% of final salary plus a lump sum.
Can someone clarify please.
Thanks
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If you support striking think on this
Thanks all....
Just so you know, thats my employer
(Im in a technical computing role, no management at all)
Because, and purely because I am not in a stategic location, I am in the process of being made redundant, and will likely be out of work within 2 months.
My alternative is to apply for a job, 100 miles from here, where I will be expected to be on a daily basis, travelling in my own time, paying my own costs....I cannot afford that. would be about 2500 miles a month! Relocation is not an option for me.
(FYI that 15000 is accurate, had an email from Antonio myself this morning)
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According to this report I pay more towards public sector pensions than I do towards my own pension. Anyone want to explain to me why thats fair and just ?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1078667/Revealed-Private-workers-pay-gold-plated-pensions-public-sector-workers-own.html
Some objective facts on the issue, for those who are interested.
http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/Public-Vs-Private-Who-Gets-skynews-3684708969.html?x=0
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Yep. :y......and the pro stikers bias on Daybreak this morning had to be heard to be believed. Adrian Chiles was talking about how he as a teenager would consider his teachers true heroes for going on strike etc etc......it was rather shockin...the media are certainly very biased.
its the slowly dawning realisation that you're wrong and most people in Britain believe in fairplay that is truly entertaining Albs, you see as in all things we go too far one way - the decimation of the unions, the villification and mockery of the working class, the greed corruption and sheer chutzpah of the monied "elite"....goes to far and its just about reached its nadir like a ball on a piece of elastic, now it's going to snap back and travel too far the other way.....that'll scare you Albs - i'd duck if i were you, that balls about to go whizzing past you like a Murray return :o
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Youve posted
some an awful lot of unintelligible drivel in the past, but I think that one might just take first prize. ::)
Take the time to read the links in my previous post and then get back to me. ;) ::)
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Albs, a smallish breakdown / explanation of civil service pensions (http://fullfact.org/factchecks/civil_service_pension_pot_average_size_pcs_maude-2776).
Also, Greece's economy (and Irelands) are both knackered because of massive public spending cuts.
I'm sorry that "clowns" like me are fighting to keep providing the services you use (and most likely take for granted), and are also fighting for fair pensions for everyone, and fair pay for everyone.
Well, I'm not sorry at all; it annoys me slightly that someone like you may reap the benefits should we be successful, but that's the way it goes if you're a union rep!
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Albs, a smallish breakdown / explanation of civil service pensions (http://fullfact.org/factchecks/civil_service_pension_pot_average_size_pcs_maude-2776).
Also, Greece's economy (and Irelands) are both knackered because of massive public spending cuts.
I'm sorry that "clowns" like me are fighting to keep providing the services you use (and most likely take for granted), and are also fighting for fair pensions for everyone, and fair pay for everyone.
Well, I'm not sorry at all; it annoys me slightly that someone like you may reap the benefits should we be successful, but that's the way it goes if you're a union rep!
Apologies - I wasnt referring to you as a clown (I know nothing about you) I was reffering to Banjax - because he really is one. ;) ;D
The greek and Irish economies are not in a mess because of public spending cuts. They are in a mess because for many years they have been spending money they havent earned and dont have. ;)
I would like to ask you a question though if I may. If the report in the link I posted is true - that I contribute more to your pension than I do to my own - do you think thats ok/fair/just/reasonable ?
I dont want anyone to fight for me, Im capable of fighting my own battles. Dont need someone like Bob crowbar on his £100,000+ p.a. to tell me he is going to lead me out of my misery to a socialist utopia. ;)
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Albs, a smallish breakdown / explanation of civil service pensions (http://fullfact.org/factchecks/civil_service_pension_pot_average_size_pcs_maude-2776).
Also, Greece's economy (and Irelands) are both knackered because of massive public spending cuts.
I'm sorry that "clowns" like me are fighting to keep providing the services you use (and most likely take for granted), and are also fighting for fair pensions for everyone, and fair pay for everyone.
Well, I'm not sorry at all; it annoys me slightly that someone like you may reap the benefits should we be successful, but that's the way it goes if you're a union rep!
I wasn't going to post on this thread, but I couldn't let this claim pass without comment.
The Greek economy has tanked for a variety of reasons, but "massive spending cuts" is certainly not one of them.
"Greece is highly indebted and lost about 25 percent of its competitiveness since Euro adoption. At the end of 2009, the general public deficit reached 13.6 percent of GDP and public debt had increased to 115 percent of GDP. Even with the lower deficits envisaged under the program, the debt as share of GDP will continue to peak at almost 150 percent of GDP in 2013 before declining thereafter.
In past years, Greece’s public sector spending grew, while revenue fell. Then the global recession hit and economic activity slowed and unemployment rose. This exacerbated the fiscal situation."
Source: IMF
http://www.imf.org/external/np/exr/faq/greecefaqs.htm
::) ::)
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According to this report I pay more towards public sector pensions than I do towards my own pension. Anyone want to explain to me why thats fair and just ?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1078667/Revealed-Private-workers-pay-gold-plated-pensions-public-sector-workers-own.html
Some objective facts on the issue, for those who are interested.
http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/Public-Vs-Private-Who-Gets-skynews-3684708969.html?x=0
From the second of those reports:
Lord Hutton's pension report noted that high-flying civil servants in some cases saw up to double the return from their pensions contributions than those on lower rungs - distorting the average.
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I'd just like to point out that I don't really think Albs or Nickbat are idiots, far from it - that was me posting first and thinking later - sorry for that ;D :y
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According to this report I pay more towards public sector pensions than I do towards my own pension. Anyone want to explain to me why thats fair and just ?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1078667/Revealed-Private-workers-pay-gold-plated-pensions-public-sector-workers-own.html
Some objective facts on the issue, for those who are interested.
http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/Public-Vs-Private-Who-Gets-skynews-3684708969.html?x=0
From the second of those reports:
Lord Hutton's pension report noted that high-flying civil servants in some cases saw up to double the return from their pensions contributions than those on lower rungs - distorting the average.
Im sure the situation is the same in the private sector Steve. ;)
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Given that the public sector has recieved excellent pay increases over the last 12 years and still has a good pension setup (and it IS very good) which we can not afford, then something has to change.
I have to say, I dont see why the retirement age is not inline with the general populus.
At the end of the day, if things stay as they are there is only one real option to raise the cash to pay these excellent pensions.....higher taxes.
And as I dont feel I get value for money from education adn certainly not the health service at the moment (due to it being poorly organised and inefficient) then I am not happy to pay any more.
What does get me is all the teacers I keep seeing on TV saying 'its hard' and 'its really difficult' and a 'challenging job'. Yes, like mine and many millions of others isnt?
It also gets my goat when they say 'we are having a pay freeze'....well be thankful as many have had pay cuts, reduced working hours, job losses and pay freezes that have lasted many years (myself included who had 4 pay rises in the last 10 years).
You have but one thing that you have ultimate control over and CAN do things about in this life......your career. If you dont like it, get out ;D ;D.
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As usual everyone has missed the point.
If Britain is the rich country we are led to believe then surely decent pensions should be top of the priorities. Lets get both the public and private sector pensions up to a decent level.
How? Well a cut out waste drive in every industry(public or private) would be a good start, improved efficiency all around, less (zero) involvement in wars except if Nato ask for a contribution, scrap new aircarft carriers, tax on "Britains got Talent", self sufficient prisons. There is a long long list.
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Hmm seems some private school (ie paid by the school not the government) teachers have been striking.
What for?
Is this actually legal?
They are depriving a school of their work for an argument not to do with them.
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I was in town to do some shopping with the missus yesterday afternoon :'(
Popped into the pub for a couple of beers about 2 pm
Stood at the bar was about 20 of these strikers throwing beer down there neck like there was no tomorrow >:( >:(
After having to push between these tinkers to get to the bar for the 3rd time, one of them asked me if I supported there cause. So I asked them if there so skint, why are they banging pints down there neck ........... I don't think they where impresed ::)
One of them got a bit arsey and started bleating on about having to put more money into there pension to which I sugested that they get a part time job during the 13 weeks holiday they get ............ He wasn't impresed and stormed out 5 minutes later with his chums ;D ;D ;D
The manager bought me and the missus a pint and I got a bollo*king of the missus and told that it was the last time I go shopping with her ;D ;D ;D
Result :D :D ;D ;D
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everyone needs to pay more, as we live longer than we used to. Although strikes were well shown in the news, the turn out was actually very poor, just a 5th of what the unions wanted!
I increased my pension contributions from 4% to 8% last week, as all this talk made me see how much I would actually get.
Add the 8% my employer pays in, I have a not too reasonable 16% pot now. Which in todays Monday (according to the Pension calculator) is around £24k a year.
Still not great, well under half what I'm earning now :(
I personally think property would be wise investment, not go mad, just get a second flat in London thats easy to rent out. In 25 years time mortgage paid off, the value of the flat is there, plus the rent is clear easy money, at least a grand a month in todays money.
Could be a nice little earner, just need to blag my other contracts going long enough to save up a deposit. :-/
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everyone needs to pay more, as we live longer than we used to. Although strikes were well shown in the news, the turn out was actually very poor, just a 5th of what the unions wanted!
I increased my pension contributions from 4% to 8% last week, as all this talk made me see how much I would actually get.
Add the 8% my employer pays in, I have a not too reasonable 16% pot now. Which in todays Monday (according to the Pension calculator) is around £24k a year.
Still not great, well under half what I'm earning now :(
I personally think property would be wise investment, not go mad, just get a second flat in London thats easy to rent out. In 25 years time mortgage paid off, the value of the flat is there, plus the rent is clear easy money, at least a grand a month in todays money.
Could be a nice little earner, just need to blag my other contracts going long enough to save up a deposit. :-/
I bet its not as much as 24K either.....what is the calc equations as I suspect that figure incldues the state pension to (as most include that in the total)
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Humm good point, did'nt think about that :(
It did say "likely" figure....
Makes me think second flat is even better, property prices may slow, might even fall a little (although London tends to be bit more stable)
If like i've seen on the news Pension companies going under, people loosing the lot.
Property is not guaranteed, but I'd say its the better choice.
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everyone needs to pay more, as we live longer than we used to. Although strikes were well shown in the news, the turn out was actually very poor, just a 5th of what the unions wanted!
I increased my pension contributions from 4% to 8% last week, as all this talk made me see how much I would actually get.
Add the 8% my employer pays in, I have a not too reasonable 16% pot now. Which in todays Monday (according to the Pension calculator) is around £24k a year.
Still not great, well under half what I'm earning now :(
I personally think property would be wise investment, not go mad, just get a second flat in London thats easy to rent out. In 25 years time mortgage paid off, the value of the flat is there, plus the rent is clear easy money, at least a grand a month in todays money.
Could be a nice little earner, just need to blag my other contracts going long enough to save up a deposit. :-/
This is a good time to get back into buy-to-let, but not necessarily in London. Check the prices of property around the country. I was in that market a few years ago, and it proved very profitable. Go for it Tunnie. :y
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The greek and Irish economies are not in a mess because of public spending cuts. They are in a mess because for many years they have been spending money they havent earned and dont have. ;)
I will retract the reference to the Greek economy, as I made that without knowing everything, but the Irish economy IS broken due to spending cuts.
The government there was praised for having a pretty stable economy, however when the recession hit they imposed a series of "emergency budgets" that cut public spending, including reducing wages and benefits and charging MORE for public services.
They are now in their THIRD year of recession, and are slipping further into it. If spending cuts are the way out, why is their economy not improving? Unemployment there reached 13.7% in April 2010. It's now 14.2%.
Sounds like a good ecomony to me!
I would like to ask you a question though if I may. If the report in the link I posted is true - that I contribute more to your pension than I do to my own - do you think thats ok/fair/just/reasonable ?
No it's not, but is that the fault of the public sector? No. Look at your employer. I am not in a strong position to say this about yours directly, but in general, the private sector pensions are hampered by rather wealthy CEOs at the top who have very generous pensions (like the MPs in parliament!) who are disproportionately having more paid into THEIR pensions then the people who are working for them.
Why should I pay (by which I mean, lose out on what I could potentially have) just because there are some greedy rich people at the top of the companies in the private sector who aren't willing to ensure their hard-working employees get a fair deal?
I dont want anyone to fight for me, Im capable of fighting my own battles. Dont need someone like Bob crowbar on his £100,000+ p.a. to tell me he is going to lead me out of my misery to a socialist utopia. ;)
Well that's your decision then, isn't it? Fighting as a union (or in union with other similarly affected people) is more effective then taking on everyone by yourself. You don't want to fight for the better pensions that you deserve then live with what you do have and don't complain and don't get upset when other people begin fighting for what they should be getting. I take the same attitude with colleagues who refuse to take part in what we do, and it's entirely fair.
What has become really evident since that day is the HUGE divide between private and public sector workers. The Government and press are doing their damndest to turn us against each other for the Government's own benefit (although I can honestly say that the support we received on Thursday was brilliant, at a local level at least).
It's also sincerely depressing that EVERYONE'S attitude is that the way to approach unfairness is to cut, cut, cut, rather than raise everyone to the same level.
It's the old race-to-the-bottom attitude and we implemented it across all working practices and in all professions then we truly would be back in the early 1900s.
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The greek and Irish economies are not in a mess because of public spending cuts. They are in a mess because for many years they have been spending money they havent earned and dont have. ;)
I will retract the reference to the Greek economy, as I made that without knowing everything, but the Irish economy IS broken due to spending cuts.
The government there was praised for having a pretty stable economy, however when the recession hit they imposed a series of "emergency budgets" that cut public spending, including reducing wages and benefits and charging MORE for public services.
They are now in their THIRD year of recession, and are slipping further into it. If spending cuts are the way out, why is their economy not improving? Unemployment there reached 13.7% in April 2010. It's now 14.2%.
Sounds like a good ecomony to me!
I would like to ask you a question though if I may. If the report in the link I posted is true - that I contribute more to your pension than I do to my own - do you think thats ok/fair/just/reasonable ?
No it's not, but is that the fault of the public sector? No. Look at your employer. I am not in a strong position to say this about yours directly, but in general, the private sector pensions are hampered by rather wealthy CEOs at the top who have very generous pensions (like the MPs in parliament!) who are disproportionately having more paid into THEIR pensions then the people who are working for them.
Why should I pay (by which I mean, lose out on what I could potentially have) just because there are some greedy rich people at the top of the companies in the private sector who aren't willing to ensure their hard-working employees get a fair deal?
I dont want anyone to fight for me, Im capable of fighting my own battles. Dont need someone like Bob crowbar on his £100,000+ p.a. to tell me he is going to lead me out of my misery to a socialist utopia. ;)
Well that's your decision then, isn't it? Fighting as a union (or in union with other similarly affected people) is more effective then taking on everyone by yourself. You don't want to fight for the better pensions that you deserve then live with what you do have and don't complain and don't get upset when other people begin fighting for what they should be getting. I take the same attitude with colleagues who refuse to take part in what we do, and it's entirely fair.
What has become really evident since that day is the HUGE divide between private and public sector workers. The Government and press are doing their damndest to turn us against each other for the Government's own benefit (although I can honestly say that the support we received on Thursday was brilliant, at a local level at least).
It's also sincerely depressing that EVERYONE'S attitude is that the way to approach unfairness is to cut, cut, cut, rather than raise everyone to the same level.
It's the old race-to-the-bottom attitude and we implemented it across all working practices and in all professions then we truly would be back in the early 1900s.
Not everyone . In my earlier post "As usual everyone has missed the point.
If Britain is the rich country we are led to believe then surely decent pensions should be top of the priorities. Lets get both the public and private sector pensions up to a decent level.
How? Well a cut out waste drive in every industry(public or private) would be a good start, improved efficiency all around, less (zero) involvement in wars except if Nato ask for a contribution, scrap new aircarft carriers, tax on "Britains got Talent", self sufficient prisons. There is a long long list. " I referred to exactly that.
I think you are right in that the government are dividing by making all public sector workers look like shysters that do diddly squat and have a decent pension to look forward to. You only have to judge the strength of feeling on here. I suspect there are many OOFErs that are public sector workers but don't comment for fear of being marginalised.
We need to get our own house in good order and our own people, then we can bail out foreign countries and contribute billions towards the EU for potentially little return.
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I apologise, I did read your post and agreed with it, but I forgot when I got irritated by posts following it. :)