Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: feeutfo on 20 August 2011, 23:00:07
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Film. Is repeated tomorrow night at 11.35pm on BBC2.
In case anyone missed it last time round, definitely worth a look.
Should carry en "E" certificate for "Emotional"... As I recall.
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When men were men....... ;)
Different mentality to todays world.These chaps had survived being WW2 fighter pilots etc. and wanted to replace that buzz. That mentality carried on well into the 70,s and really only started disappearing after the dreadful events of 1982.
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F1 is far too safe these days.
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...trying to remember, did they mention that Villineuve fellow...? ::)
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You mean, the fastest,bravest, most naturally talented man ever to sit in a racing car ? ;) :)
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You mean, the fastest,bravest, most naturally talented man ever to sit in a racing car ? ;) :)
Well did they?... As I'm sure you saw the film first time round.
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I watched in youtube.. interesting.. and very sad..
there is no reason for those drivers to die in that violent conditions.. its not logical to make them race between trees which is bloody deadly..simple precautions would prevent most of those deaths ..
and I'm happy they win at the end.. and imo its not related to being a real man.. what ? you die and you proove that you have no fear..nonsense.. even in early sixties those cars reach 400 hp.. and those small chasis with that power and dangerous tracks is simply a death trap.. nothing else..
capitalism, dont care about human lifes >:(
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I watched in youtube.. interesting.. and very sad..
there is no reason for those drivers to die in that violent conditions.. its not logical to make them race between trees which is bloody deadly..simple precautions would prevent most of those deaths ..
and I'm happy they win at the end.. and imo its not related to being a real man.. what ? you die and you proove that you have no fear..nonsense.. even in early sixties those cars reach 400 hp.. and those small chasis with that power and dangerous tracks is simply a death trap.. nothing else..
capitalism, dont care about human lifes >:(
Well said Cem
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I watched in youtube.. interesting.. and very sad..
there is no reason for those drivers to die in that violent conditions.. its not logical to make them race between trees which is bloody deadly..simple precautions would prevent most of those deaths ..
and I'm happy they win at the end.. and imo its not related to being a real man.. what ? you die and you proove that you have no fear..nonsense.. even in early sixties those cars reach 400 hp.. and those small chasis with that power and dangerous tracks is simply a death trap.. nothing else..
capitalism, dont care about human lifes >:(
Well said Cem
:y :y :y
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at the last moments of film I have watched a driver desperately trying to save a friend where only few tried to help , and the passing drivers didnt even stop..
I can feel how was for him.. and the driver burned to death in front of everybody's eyes.. thats unacceptable.. :'(
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the death of Ayrton Senna.. even how small details can kill you.. :(
part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfIil0oxddo
part2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xElXcF254lI
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I watched in youtube.. interesting.. and very sad..
there is no reason for those drivers to die in that violent conditions.. its not logical to make them race between trees which is bloody deadly..simple precautions would prevent most of those deaths ..
and I'm happy they win at the end.. and imo its not related to being a real man.. what ? you die and you proove that you have no fear..nonsense.. even in early sixties those cars reach 400 hp.. and those small chasis with that power and dangerous tracks is simply a death trap.. nothing else..
capitalism, dont care about human lifes >:(
Well said Cem
:y :y :y
Take no notice cem, if Banjax was here they could talk to him about it and the rest of us could ignore their entire conversation. I suppose old Bj did have a use after all. ;D
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and thats what national geographic did not tell :-?
again we are told bollix >:(
part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CX2Sd_Ww-HA&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_602971
part 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2f9pumnvqDI&NR=1
part 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NjSIZfG5rk&NR=1
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Certainly some bollix there... But. :-/
http://www.ayrton-senna.com/s-files/picsf03.html
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there is no reason for those drivers to die in that violent conditions.. its not logical to make them race between trees which is bloody deadly..simple precautions would prevent most of those deaths ..
Absolutely, but I think we have gone too far now.
Most circuits have to have such large run-off areas, that the spectators are now too far removed - possibly one of the reasons Monaco still has a certain 'magic' about it, despite no overtaking. As you know, I live just down the road from Silverstone, so frequently go to free events and track days. Apart from the (old) start/finish straight, you are so far away from the track, you can't see the details on the cars, and lose the sensation of their speed.
Sport is for the spectators - they pay for it - so, yes, it needs armco everywhere, and safety fences to catch flying debris, but don't take the excitement away from those paying to watch it.
But the biggest issue IMHO, is sorting out true overtaking (not the pointless, artificial DRS tosh they have now). The drivers clearly lack the absolute fire to win at all costs - when they do discover this burning desire, excitement follows, Button's Championship winning Brazil race are a prime example. Schumacher, love him or hate him, was probably the last of the F1 drivers to exhibit this trait.
Tyre changes (for dry races) are going to have to be stopped, because its currently the easiest way to overtake. Which leads to the bizarre situation that all the excitement happens off the track.
So, 'when men were men' was a more exciting time, because they were prepared to have a go. It seemed each race was its own race, whereas now, the annual championship is more important, and the gay poofter drivers will happily sit behind another, and get a point, rather than try their very best.
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there is no reason for those drivers to die in that violent conditions.. its not logical to make them race between trees which is bloody deadly..simple precautions would prevent most of those deaths ..
Absolutely, but I think we have gone too far now.
Most circuits have to have such large run-off areas, that the spectators are now too far removed - possibly one of the reasons Monaco still has a certain 'magic' about it, despite no overtaking. As you know, I live just down the road from Silverstone, so frequently go to free events and track days. Apart from the (old) start/finish straight, you are so far away from the track, you can't see the details on the cars, and lose the sensation of their speed.
Sport is for the spectators - they pay for it - so, yes, it needs armco everywhere, and safety fences to catch flying debris, but don't take the excitement away from those paying to watch it.
But the biggest issue IMHO, is sorting out true overtaking (not the pointless, artificial DRS tosh they have now). The drivers clearly lack the absolute fire to win at all costs - when they do discover this burning desire, excitement follows, Button's Championship winning Brazil race are a prime example. Schumacher, love him or hate him, was probably the last of the F1 drivers to exhibit this trait.
Tyre changes (for dry races) are going to have to be stopped, because its currently the easiest way to overtake. Which leads to the bizarre situation that all the excitement happens off the track.
So, 'when men were men' was a more exciting time, because they were prepared to have a go. It seemed each race was its own race, whereas now, the annual championship is more important, and the gay poofter drivers will happily sit behind another, and get a point, rather than try their very best.
...it's simply not acceptable to have drivers dieing 2 or 3 a season. Not even one a season. The rest is a buy product of that fact...
...as you would say yourself, accept it and move on.
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there is no reason for those drivers to die in that violent conditions.. its not logical to make them race between trees which is bloody deadly..simple precautions would prevent most of those deaths ..
Absolutely, but I think we have gone too far now.
Most circuits have to have such large run-off areas, that the spectators are now too far removed - possibly one of the reasons Monaco still has a certain 'magic' about it, despite no overtaking. As you know, I live just down the road from Silverstone, so frequently go to free events and track days. Apart from the (old) start/finish straight, you are so far away from the track, you can't see the details on the cars, and lose the sensation of their speed.
Sport is for the spectators - they pay for it - so, yes, it needs armco everywhere, and safety fences to catch flying debris, but don't take the excitement away from those paying to watch it.
But the biggest issue IMHO, is sorting out true overtaking (not the pointless, artificial DRS tosh they have now). The drivers clearly lack the absolute fire to win at all costs - when they do discover this burning desire, excitement follows, Button's Championship winning Brazil race are a prime example. Schumacher, love him or hate him, was probably the last of the F1 drivers to exhibit this trait.
Tyre changes (for dry races) are going to have to be stopped, because its currently the easiest way to overtake. Which leads to the bizarre situation that all the excitement happens off the track.
So, 'when men were men' was a more exciting time, because they were prepared to have a go. It seemed each race was its own race, whereas now, the annual championship is more important, and the gay poofter drivers will happily sit behind another, and get a point, rather than try their very best.
getting points for those races become the ultimate goal now.. yep.. so everybody tries to stay on road instead of real racing.. and really destroys the joy..
also spectators cant see them from close distances for safety reasons..
however, human life is more precious than any race or joy.. so I think sacrificing some of it not that bad.. :y
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...it's simply not acceptable to have drivers dieing 2 or 3 a season. Not even one a season. The rest is a buy product of that fact...
...as you would say yourself, accept it and move on.
Its not acceptable to have even 1 death, in pursuit of a spectator sport like F1. Sadly, this can never be 100% achieved, as freak events will always happen - by rights, Massa is alive more by luck.
But it is a spectator sport, so they need to find more innovative ways of reducing risks than moving the spectators miles away. Whats the next step, ban spectators? I wouldn't put that past F1, as they seem to have forgotten who/what they are there for. Just thinking aloud, a 'bumper bar' around car to prevent wheel on wheel contact, to stop car launching. Or the sidepods have to sit proud of the wheels?
Doesnt get away from the fundamental issue that the drivers don't want to overtake.
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...it's simply not acceptable to have drivers dieing 2 or 3 a season. Not even one a season. The rest is a buy product of that fact...
...as you would say yourself, accept it and move on.
Its not acceptable to have even 1 death, in pursuit of a spectator sport like F1. Sadly, this can never be 100% achieved, as freak events will always happen - by rights, Massa is alive more by luck.
But it is a spectator sport, so they need to find more innovative ways of reducing risks than moving the spectators miles away. Whats the next step, ban spectators? I wouldn't put that past F1, as they seem to have forgotten who/what they are there for. Just thinking aloud, a 'bumper bar' around car to prevent wheel on wheel contact, to stop car launching. Or the sidepods have to sit proud of the wheels?
Doesnt get away from the fundamental issue that the drivers don't want to overtake.
thats strictly necessary.. andI believe sooner or later F1 will have it.. :y
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...it's simply not acceptable to have drivers dieing 2 or 3 a season. Not even one a season. The rest is a buy product of that fact...
...as you would say yourself, accept it and move on.
Its not acceptable to have even 1 death, in pursuit of a spectator sport like F1. Sadly, this can never be 100% achieved, as freak events will always happen - by rights, Massa is alive more by luck.
But it is a spectator sport, so they need to find more innovative ways of reducing risks than moving the spectators miles away. Whats the next step, ban spectators? I wouldn't put that past F1, as they seem to have forgotten who/what they are there for. Just thinking aloud, a 'bumper bar' around car to prevent wheel on wheel contact, to stop car launching. Or the sidepods have to sit proud of the wheels?
Doesnt get away from the fundamental issue that the drivers don't want to overtake.
thats strictly necessary.. andI believe sooner or later F1 will have it.. :y
Whilst a bit of 'argy bargy' is exciting in non-single seater, I think they would have to devise a method to punish drivers making excessive use of them, if its to remain non contact... ...although it would make mad dashes up the inside more common :y
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TB is right.Something had to be done about the drivers dying year after year, but it has all gone too far. ;)
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Fundamentally flawed point TB. I've not been to an F1 race but been to the uk circuits they use to spectate other motor sport events, and always the most popular view point is one that sees the longest portion of the track, if not all of it. Which by definition is also always a considerable difference from track side.
And I have to say, vehicles with a much smaller performance envelope still vault the fence on tracks initially designed during the war. Clearly as performance improves inevitably run off needs to be extended...
... I'm having trouble understanding the need to focus on every bloody thing else except the simple and unadulterated speed of the event.
Go watch touring cars! terribly sorry old boy, I am a little tired. They still drop out at the slightest touch, bent control arms and wheels falling off at the slightest sniff of another car along side.
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I can remember watching them from the banking on paddock bend at Brands.Thats not very far back from the track. ;)
Of course they are all too gay to go there now. ::)
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There was an interview with Guy Martin I saw this year for the TT, he said one of the reasons he raced was because it's dangerous, if it makes a mistake, he's dead. Thats the appeal for him!
3 people died at this years TT, the died loved that they where doing, despite the risks. Just hope the PC, H&S squad don't decide to "improve" the TT
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I can remember watching them from the banking on paddock bend at Brands.Thats not very far back from the track. ;)
Of course they are all too gay to go there now. ::)
And if you'd been there at all recently you could have stood at the top of the stand opposite the pit exit and seen the entire short circuit! No chance of seeing the rest of the full international circuit where the proper accidents happen, in stead of where the gay spectators stand and paddock hill. Although if F1 went there now I think I know where Albs should stand. ;) ;D
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There was an interview with Guy Martin I saw this year for the TT, he said one of the reasons he raced was because it's dangerous, if it makes a mistake, he's dead. Thats the appeal for him!
3 people died at this years TT, the died loved that they where doing, despite the risks. Just hope the PC, H&S squad don't decide to "improve" the TT
That event only survives due to IOM govt. greed! Fantastic as it is now, they should build a new long short circuit from one of the fantasy race track threads dotted around the WWW and keep some exceptionally talented people around...
... But, as I keep telling myself when one of the lads at work asks for advice re his racing, re lines, gearing, various circuits, suspension set up(no idea ;D) if it wasn't for racing itself he'd be riding the same on public roads.
Anyway, f1 is the pinnacle of speed! There is nothing more with corners. If you don't like it go find something better. And of course there IS nothing better. :P
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I can remember watching them from the banking on paddock bend at Brands.Thats not very far back from the track. ;)
Of course they are all too gay to go there now. ::)
And if you'd been there at all recently you could have stood at the top of the stand opposite the pit exit and seen the entire short circuit! No chance of seeing the rest of the full international circuit where the proper accidents happen, in stead of where the gay spectators stand and paddock hill. Although if F1 went there now I think I know where Albs should stand. ;) ;D
That was the first time I had been to a circuit outside Ireland.If I went now, I would be watching from out the back somewhere.
In fact when I used to go to WSB/BSB there, I used to work my way around the circuit during the day to see different parts of the track throughout the meeting. ;)
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I can remember watching them from the banking on paddock bend at Brands.Thats not very far back from the track. ;)
Of course they are all too gay to go there now. ::)
And if you'd been there at all recently you could have stood at the top of the stand opposite the pit exit and seen the entire short circuit! No chance of seeing the rest of the full international circuit where the proper accidents happen, in stead of where the gay spectators stand and paddock hill. Although if F1 went there now I think I know where Albs should stand. ;) ;D
That was the first time I had been to a circuit outside Ireland.If I went now, I would be watching from out the back somewhere.
In fact when I used to go to WSB/BSB there, I used to work my way around the circuit during the day to see different parts of the track throughout the meeting. ;)
Bikes regularly clear the fences there Albs. BSB is always carnage. Deaths are sadly quite regular. A lad was bieved D.O.A. after a prang at Cadwell last weekend, he hit pit wall. On a straight.
Ride a few circuits Albs. See how your opinions develop then!
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There was an interview with Guy Martin I saw this year for the TT, he said one of the reasons he raced was because it's dangerous, if it makes a mistake, he's dead. Thats the appeal for him!
3 people died at this years TT, the died loved that they where doing, despite the risks. Just hope the PC, H&S squad don't decide to "improve" the TT
That event only survives due to IOM govt. greed! Fantastic as it is now, they should build a new long short circuit from one of the fantasy race track threads dotted around the WWW and keep some exceptionally talented people around...
... But, as I keep telling myself when one of the lads at work asks for advice re his racing, re lines, gearing, various circuits, suspension set up(no idea ;D) if it wasn't for racing itself he'd be riding the same on public roads.
Anyway, f1 is the pinnacle of speed! There is nothing more with corners. If you don't like it go find something better. And of course there IS nothing better. :P
Thats crap. It survives because it is the most prestigious motorcycle race in the world and people still queue up to compete on it as its the ultimate challenge for rider and machine.
The kind of people who still view short circuits as sterile,neutered and geared for those who have no sense of history or real passion for the ultimate (and therefore most dangerous) of experiences.It is thankfully devoid of the types who started going to watch bikes when Fogarty was winning and stopped going when Hodgson breaked off to the U.S.
People who appreciate the Joey Dunlops of this world as opposed to the Casey Stoners. ;)
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I did watch some WSB after getting back from IOM TT, to be honest, it was rather dull compared to TT. Oh look he fellt off slid 100m and he's on the bike and off again.
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... I'm having trouble understanding the need to focus on every bloody thing else except the simple and unadulterated speed of the event.
Its a race, or at least should be. Thats the issue. It requires cars to get quite close together, in order to overtake.
Yes, just watching them go around on their own is a specticle - thus I tend to go to the few practice cars they hold at Silverstone, esp as they are usually free ;D.
Would F1 work if it was just time trials? I think not ;)
I never stay the day on the practice days, as, TBH, it does get boring watching them fly round. In any racing, close racing is what makes it exciting, no matter which motorsport you follow. Or IHMO anyway.
With Silverstone, I have seen over the years, the track move further from the stands, and you do lose the sensation of the speeds. Sadly. Bridge, one of the best spectator corners on any track - seeing a F1 at full chat through there makes the hairs stand up on your neck (moreso before they removed that section where you used to be able to sit) - has gone as deemed unsuitable for F1 due to the danger. >:( :'(. People can no longer see F1 cars hurtling towards them, and then change direction with the flick of a wheel. I'm delighted I was able to see this, and saddened that others no longer can.
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There was an interview with Guy Martin I saw this year for the TT, he said one of the reasons he raced was because it's dangerous, if it makes a mistake, he's dead. Thats the appeal for him!
3 people died at this years TT, the died loved that they where doing, despite the risks. Just hope the PC, H&S squad don't decide to "improve" the TT
That event only survives due to IOM govt. greed! Fantastic as it is now, they should build a new long short circuit from one of the fantasy race track threads dotted around the WWW and keep some exceptionally talented people around...
... But, as I keep telling myself when one of the lads at work asks for advice re his racing, re lines, gearing, various circuits, suspension set up(no idea ;D) if it wasn't for racing itself he'd be riding the same on public roads.
Anyway, f1 is the pinnacle of speed! There is nothing more with corners. If you don't like it go find something better. And of course there IS nothing better. :P
Thats crap. It survives because it is the most prestigious motorcycle race in the world and people still queue up to compete on it as its the ultimate challenge for rider and machine.
The kind of people who still view short circuits as sterile,neutered and geared for those who have no sense of history or real passion for the ultimate (and therefore most dangerous) of experiences.It is thankfully devoid of the types who started going to watch bikes when Fogarty was winning and stopped going when Hodgson breaked off to the U.S.
People who appreciate the Joey Dunlops of this world as opposed to the Casey Stoners. ;)
... And it feature nowhere in any world championship. It's been dropped and survives on a shoe string for the Russian roulette types with no brain. It's a fantastic event, don't get me wrong, but it's completely irresponsible from every angle. As said previously, death in spectator sport has no place, and will mean the end of it if that continues. It's called progress. Irritating as that may be to some. Tough, deal with it! :)
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Dont ever assume that progress by definition means progress in the right direction.It often isnt. ;)
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Dont ever assume that progress by definition means progress in the right direction.It often isnt. ;)
What, so hugely talented people with massive following competing under great pressure staying alive longer isn't progress ? Or any other individual ...
People you admire, people you want to pay to go and see perform, again and again, people like Senna! who incidentally died on a corner where there is no run off to speak of, where there are no spectators at all, where even tv cameras barely convey the story as they can't get close enough! What a complete waist of a life!
I want see these guys compete, not die!
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I havent noticed anyone arguing that point Chris. Its just that , as is often the case with progress, we throw the baby out with the bath water. Ive been watching all forms of motorsport since the mid 70,s and Im utterly convinced that most of it is more about showbiz and big bucks than good quality racing these days.
Slow the cars down to suit the tracks, dont destroy good tracks to accomodate ever quicker (but much less spectacular to watch) cars. 20 years or so ago cars were quite a few seconds per lap slower over a given distance than todays cars, but the racing was a hell of a lot better.
They keep introducing artificial mickey mouse contraptions to try to reintroduce that, but its like trying to convince intelligent people that James Last was a modern equivalent to Beethoven. ;)
Im a bit of a purist about motorsport, and there aint much pure about any of it these days.
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I havent noticed anyone arguing that point Chris. Its just that , as is often the case with progress, we throw the baby out with the bath water. Ive been watching all forms of motorsport since the mid 70,s and Im utterly convinced that most of it is more about showbiz and big bucks than good quality racing these days.
Slow the cars down to suit the tracks, dont destroy good tracks to accomodate ever quicker (but much less spectacular to watch) cars. 20 years or so ago cars were quite a few seconds per lap slower over a given distance than todays cars, but the racing was a hell of a lot better.
They keep introducing artificial mickey mouse contraptions to try to reintroduce that, but its like trying to convince intelligent people that James Last was a modern equivalent to Beethoven. ;)
Im a bit of a purist about motorsport, and there aint much pure about any of it these days.
Maybe you missed the previous re buy products of drivers not
Dieing. FFS move on Albs. Those days are gone! And good riddance!
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Phillistine.
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I was at boarding school at Brackley in the late '40s and early '50s. We used to cycle to Silverstone on practise days, (must have been truanting I guess as I think Saturdays were race days then) We could walk into the pits, and talk to the drivers, I had lots of their autographs, Juan Fangio, Mike Hawthorn, Peter Collins, never got Moss. It was the same on bike race days, I had Geoff Duke and many others, my dear old Mum threw them all away!
Fangio was my favourite car driver, he always looked so smooth.
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I was at boarding school at Brackley in the late '40s and early '50s. We used to cycle to Silverstone on practise days, (must have been truanting I guess as I think Saturdays were race days then) We could walk into the pits, and talk to the drivers, I had lots of their autographs, Juan Fangio, Mike Hawthorn, Peter Collins, never got Moss. It was the same on bike race days, I had Geoff Duke and many others, my dear old Mum threw them all away!
Fangio was my favourite car driver, he always looked so smooth.
Small world!
Winchester House?
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MCS :y
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MCS :y
Magdalen College School was private then? Never knew that!
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Certainly it was fee paying. I'm not sure when it changed, in the late 60's I think. I still go to OB's day occasionally. :y
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Phillistine.
...and Stoner on his Honda leads Rossi by 100 points on the same bike Stoner won the Championship on. ;)
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We are all different.
For me, and I'm guessing Albs, whilst we don't want to see anyone hurt (although motorsport is dangerous), we get the excitement from racing, and being able to see that racing. I'm guessing chrisgixer cannot see the fascination with racing.
To chrisgixer, I'm guessing that outright speed, and man and machine getting the utmost from the combination is more exciting than close racing.
I know chrisgixer does bike track days, so can I can see his point of view. My landlord, when I first moved out from home, did the amateur superbike series (cant recall what it was called), and came home most weekends having lost another friend. Nobody wants to see that. It is critical bikes have run-off areas, even on straights. Cars can get away with much less.
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We are all different.
For me, and I'm guessing Albs, whilst we don't want to see anyone hurt (although motorsport is dangerous), we get the excitement from racing, and being able to see that racing. I'm guessing chrisgixer cannot see the fascination with racing.
To chrisgixer, I'm guessing that outright speed, and man and machine getting the utmost from the combination is more exciting than close racing.
I know chrisgixer does bike track days, so can I can see his point of view. My landlord, when I first moved out from home, did the amateur superbike series (cant recall what it was called), and came home most weekends having lost another friend. Nobody wants to see that. It is critical bikes have run-off areas, even on straights. Cars can get away with much less.
For me it's always been about the doing. Stuff the watching!....by comparison. Once tried, what's required at top level becomes far more clear, however distant, no matter the pursuit.
Bikes have always been an easy(cheap) way into motor sport for me. Comparing performance level with cars, it takes alot more cash on four wheels to go half as quick...so to speak.
... Although the gonads do shrink with age... And lack of fitness. :'(
There's nothing like caining the arse of a sports bike. Competition,"racing" will happen at track days too, it's why we go, although it's frowned upon by event organisers above a certain point.
But after racing at a basic level, track days don't quite cover the buzz. A 600 starting grid among fellow beginners is a very scarey place. Mistakes are made more often at that level and all sorts of strange ideas on how to go about things avail, ESP on the first lap.
However from lap two onwards, nirvanah... From outright terror, to pure joy, fantastic. There's alway someone to race with, no matter your individual level or bike performance. Ding dong all day long. ;D
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Oh, indeed, doing is far more fun. I've not the balls on bikes, so karts used to be my vice.
My earlier point being, if I cant take part, and want to watch, racing is more fun for me :y
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Oh, indeed, doing is far more fun. I've not the balls on bikes, so karts used to be my vice.
My earlier point being, if I cant take part, and want to watch, racing is more fun for me :y
If I can't take part, then I personally need far more than the shite tv coverage we get to replace it. (should I bother ranting about highly detailed and technically advanced close ups of static team members in the pits yet again? >:( )
Put me/us in the drivers or riders seat, I want live it, feel it, be petrified by the commitment. It's difficult of course, but they could do so much more. Some of the demo laps by the likes Steve Parish or Jammie Witham with running commentary I find fascinating. Taking that forward, they show part of the other battle the driver has, which we hardly ever see, the one with the track itself, man and machine v the track. A less exciting contest from a spectators point of view, maybe. But one the competitor has to win as well.
So much more to it...some of Red bulls close up slow mo footage of Stoner is awesome. Through one corner, a left hander, he has to lift part of his body up to avoid the curb on the inside, knee and elbow so close the floor they're in the way. Rear wheel constantly turning faster than the front through out... A measure of some of the juggling act involved. Love it! (regardless of the rider)
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Here you go. Not for Albs though. ;D
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4snkUUolJ0&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/media]
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Impressive. :y...........but not as impressive as this. On a 500 2 stroke - which was the ultimate racing motorcycle..........but of course we have "progressed" from those. ;)
Skip the first45 secs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obrL4f7-6WI
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Anyway, it's on in hour. :y
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I will be watching again - as long as my PM box doesnt keep filling up. :y ;D
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Phillistine.
...and Stoner on his Honda leads Rossi by 100 points on the same bike Stoner won the Championship on. ;)
Its nothing like the same bike and you know it Chris.The onlt thing they have in common is having a Ducati sticker on the tank. Rossi is the best ever, theres no point trying to argue any different.Even if his best years are now behind him (which is by no means certain) Stoner will still never come close to what he has done. If Rossi was on a Honda this season Stoner wouldnt see where he went. And if Stoner was around in the days of 500 2 strokes he would have highsided himself into next week every time he wrenched open the the throttle.No adjustable power curve and clever electronics in those days.The feel through the arse and the finesse of the right hand was what won it - when men were men. ;)
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Phillistine.
...and Stoner on his Honda leads Rossi by 100 points on the same bike Stoner won the Championship on. ;)
Its nothing like the same bike and you know it Chris.The onlt thing they have in common is having a Ducati sticker on the tank. Rossi is the best ever, theres no point trying to argue any different.Even if his best years are now behind him (which is by no means certain) Stoner will still never come close to what he has done. If Rossi was on a Honda this season Stoner wouldnt see where he went. And if Stoner was around in the days of 500 2 strokes he would have highsided himself into next week every time he wrenched open the the throttle.No adjustable power curve and clever electronics in those days.The feel through the arse and the finesse of the right hand was what won it - when men were men. ;)
Historically yes, no point denying. Same as there's no point denying Stoners Talent either. Completely and utterly pointless. Insert sarcastic smiley here > [ ] ::)
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Impressive. :y...........but not as impressive as this. On a 500 2 stroke - which was the ultimate racing motorcycle..........but of course we have "progressed" from those. ;)
Skip the first45 secs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obrL4f7-6WI
:y
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eByrWozqvaY&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/media]
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Hang on, 500 is the ultimate racing motorcycle...? What utter 'dangle berries'! ;D
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Definitely a Philistine.Read a few books on the history of bike racing from the 70,s to the present. And then watch a few DVD,s.
500 racers used to until recently refer to 4 strokes as diesels.4 strokes - any 4 stroke, is much more forgiving to ride,a tamer beast altogether.They switched to 4 strokes for marketing reasons due to 2 strokes being virtually outlawed by the tree huggers.200bhp with all the power in a power band of less than 2000rpm somewhere above 10,000rpm - mans bikes. ;)
Took real talent and guts to ride those things on the limit, more so than any 4 stroke without a doubt. Ask Rossi, Doohan,Rainey,Schwantz,Gardner, Sheene,Roberts,etc,etc... ;)
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Definitely a Philistine.Read a few books on the history of bike racing from the 70,s to the present. And then watch a few DVD,s.
500 racers used to until recently refer to 4 strokes as diesels.4 strokes - any 4 stroke, is much more forgiving to ride,a tamer beast altogether.They switched to 4 strokes for marketing reasons due to 2 strokes being virtually outlawed by the tree huggers.200bhp with all the power in a power band of less than 2000rpm somewhere above 10,000rpm - mans bikes. ;)
Took real talent and guts to ride those things on the limit, more so than any 4 stroke without a doubt. Ask Rossi, Doohan,Rainey,Schwantz,Gardner, Sheene,Roberts,etc,etc... ;)
Albs that's just obtuse. The first Fireblade had more power. As your personal racing star friends will tell you. ;D bored now, whatever. ;D
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It didnt.500 2 strokes were putting out 200bhp from the mid 90,s. A fireblade still doesnt put out that much power.
Its not just about the power though. Its about the various characteristics of the bikes which made them very difficult to ride on the limit. Even super smooth Biagga got caught out and highsided a few times.Much more difficult to ride properly and required more skill to get the best from them.
Rossi says so and hesabout the only bloke around now who has ridden everything from 500 2 strokes to everyting which came after. He still says the 500,s were the ultimate, pure racing bike. :y
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Anywaaaaay, getting back to the original topic.
A great programme Chris, quite emotional, and a very strong reminder of what a different place the world was back then.
What seems inhumanly crual now was just normal practice then.
Two major things came to my mind watching it.
1.The reason I have always had a lot more respect for those drivers than the current ones is, that they got into those cars knowing that if they had a big shunt there was a very good chance that they wouldnt come out of it. But they still got in them and drovethem on the ragged edge. Incredible imo.
2. David Purley was not only a hero but a really decent human being. I still remember when he was killed flying his stunt plane.A sad loss.
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It didnt.500 2 strokes were putting out 200bhp from the mid 90,s. A fireblade still doesnt put out that much power.
Its not just about the power though. Its about the various characteristics of the bikes which made them very difficult to ride on the limit. Even super smooth Biagga got caught out and highsided a few times.Much more difficult to ride properly and required more skill to get the best from them.
Rossi says so and hesabout the only bloke around now who has ridden everything from 500 2 strokes to everyting which came after. He still says the 500,s were the ultimate, pure racing bike. :y
Ah, forgive me. At their end, yes. :y
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Anywaaaaay, getting back to the original topic.
A great programme Chris, quite emotional, and a very strong reminder of what a different place the world was back then.
What seems inhumanly crual now was just normal practice then.
Two major things came to my mind watching it.
1.The reason I have always had a lot more respect for those drivers than the current ones is, that they got into those cars knowing that if they had a big shunt there was a very good chance that they wouldnt come out of it. But they still got in them and drovethem on the ragged edge. Incredible imo.
2. David Purley was not only a hero but a really decent human being. I still remember when he was killed flying his stunt plane.A sad loss.
The real "men" if you insist on putting it in those terms where those that stood up to be counted, spoke their mind, and said "no" !
And if you want to blame someone for the road F1 went down to where it is now "blame" Sir Jackie Stewart. See how your argument stacks up with him.
If those are the days you call the Golden years, well...
Easy being wise after the event though I suppose. But those days where criminal. :'(
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I dont think you have read a single one of my posts. :-/ ::)
P.S Jackie Stewart says pretty much the same as I do about F1 going down the wrong road in recent times. Which is why that piece of crap Mosley called him "a certifiable idiot". ::)
P.P.S. The era that I would think of as the golden years began several years after the period covered by that film. ;)
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Watched the BBC2 programme - very emotional and nostalgic for me. I was very friendly with Roger Williamson (the guy that burned to death in Holland 1973) when I lived in Leicester.
Can still see him now driving a racing S, which he was trying to sell to me, on trade plates out of leicester (I was "sat" next to him) on a dual carriageway at very high speed.
Remember racing against him at Mallory and other circuits when he was running his Holbay Anglia.
A talanted guy and a sad and unnecessary loss due to the ineptitude of track/fire marshalls at that time.
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Horrifying footage of a racer burned to death in his car and being lifted out when it had finally been put out, the race just kept going around him :'(
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It's a hard enough game, even with all the open space in the world, there is still other cars and the floor to hit. Can't do much about that other than give up altogether, but can do all the other stuff.
Enclosed canopies next probably. :-/
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Men with big "sphericals" between their legs raced in those days knowing the dangers. I think it was a very brave and good decision (much criticized at the time) Jackie Stewart made when he quit at the top after his 3rd world championship. To turn his back on racing at the top of his career for his families sake.
The only racing that now compares to this is motorcycle road racing at the IOM TT, North West 200 etc. Guy Martin at this years TT races when asked about the danger of being killed, he replied "That's why I race here as it is the ultimate test knowing if you make a mistake you can be killed" ::) :o :D
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think in an other way,
your mother and father didnt give you life and all those efforts for you to waste in a boy racer game.. :D
honestly ,there are far more important things in life if you want to die for .. more honorable things.. not a rather race for some car company.. >:(
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Definitely a Philistine.Read a few books on the history of bike racing from the 70,s to the present. And then watch a few DVD,s.
500 racers used to until recently refer to 4 strokes as diesels.4 strokes - any 4 stroke, is much more forgiving to ride,a tamer beast altogether.They switched to 4 strokes for marketing reasons due to 2 strokes being virtually outlawed by the tree huggers.200bhp with all the power in a power band of less than 2000rpm somewhere above 10,000rpm - mans bikes. ;)
Took real talent and guts to ride those things on the limit, more so than any 4 stroke without a doubt. Ask Rossi, Doohan,Rainey,Schwantz,Gardner, Sheene,Roberts,etc,etc... ;)
I still remember the Sheen Roberts race in the 70s when it was neck and neck all the way - FANTASTIC
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Definitely a Philistine.Read a few books on the history of bike racing from the 70,s to the present. And then watch a few DVD,s.
500 racers used to until recently refer to 4 strokes as diesels.4 strokes - any 4 stroke, is much more forgiving to ride,a tamer beast altogether.They switched to 4 strokes for marketing reasons due to 2 strokes being virtually outlawed by the tree huggers.200bhp with all the power in a power band of less than 2000rpm somewhere above 10,000rpm - mans bikes. ;)
Took real talent and guts to ride those things on the limit, more so than any 4 stroke without a doubt. Ask Rossi, Doohan,Rainey,Schwantz,Gardner, Sheene,Roberts,etc,etc... ;)
I still remember the Sheen Roberts race in the 70s when it was neck and neck all the way - FANTASTIC
As do I , Martin. Silverstone "79" if memory serves... :y
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My dad view guys like Graham Hill, Jackie Stewart and Niki Lauda being somewhat different to the drivers of today.
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With good reason imo. :y