Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 19 September 2011, 20:20:52

Title: Gas fire problem
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 19 September 2011, 20:20:52
We have a problem with our  gas fire. It runs off 47kg gas bottles.

When the fire is on full, for no apparent reason it will either cut out completely or suddenly burn at a much slower rate.

I have checked there is sufficient gas in the bottle ........and it is turned on.

It seems to me that a valve is either being shut off completely or restricted in some way. But where and which valve?

Any ideas chaps?
Title: Re: Gas fire problem
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 19 September 2011, 20:22:32
Does it only occur when the boiler or another gas appliance kicks in?
Title: Re: Gas fire problem
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 19 September 2011, 20:24:13
Quote
Does it only occur when the boiler or another gas appliance kicks in?

We don't have any other gas appliances apart from the fire Mark. The boiler runs on oil. :y
Title: Re: Gas fire problem
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 19 September 2011, 20:30:40
lack of oxygene/ventilation ?
Title: Re: Gas fire problem
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 19 September 2011, 20:32:09
Sounds like a potential reg fault then (they are supposed to be replaced every 5-10 years as they clog up with the 'smell agent')
Title: Re: Gas fire problem
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 19 September 2011, 20:46:02
Quote
Sounds like a potential reg fault then (they are supposed to be replaced every 5-10 years as they clog up with the 'smell agent')


Regulator fault?. Sounds feasible. Where would this regulator be situated........close to the bottles or is it an integral part of the fire?
Title: Re: Gas fire problem
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 19 September 2011, 20:49:20
Quote
lack of oxygene/ventilation ?


Thanks Cem. This is the first time we have experienced this problem. We have lived here for seven years. :y :y
Title: Re: Gas fire problem
Post by: Andy B on 19 September 2011, 20:50:47
Quote
....
Regulator fault?. Sounds feasible. Where would this regulator be situated........close to the bottles or is it an integral part of the fire?

If similar set up to caravanning gas, it's on the bottle 
Title: Re: Gas fire problem
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 19 September 2011, 20:51:03
Quote
Quote
Sounds like a potential reg fault then (they are supposed to be replaced every 5-10 years as they clog up with the 'smell agent')


Regulator fault?. Sounds feasible. Where would this regulator be situated........close to the bottles or is it an integral part of the fire?

Its normaly close to the bottle (as you dont want Bottle pressure gas traveling to far!)

I suspect if it was a lack of oxygen, you would have felt light headed long before the fire showed sypmtoms
Title: Re: Gas fire problem
Post by: Entwood on 19 September 2011, 21:07:06
How old are the flexible gas pipes ??? There is a known problem in the caravanning world where newer spec pipes ( last 5-7 years ) have caused problems that the older spec pipes didn't and as pipes should be replaced every 3 years it has become quite common. It is caused by the plascticiser ( spelling ??) in the pipes being leached out by the gas flow then being deposited inside the regulator, so causing regulator problems. When mine failed it gave similar fault to yours .. worked fine at low flow but useless at high flows.

Solution was a new regulator and stainless steel braided pipes, for some reason the rubber inside those pipes does not suffer the same problems ... :(
Title: Re: Gas fire problem
Post by: STMO123 on 19 September 2011, 21:20:27
But that would cost money and Opti is a tight bstard  ::)
Title: Re: Gas fire problem
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 19 September 2011, 21:55:37
Quote
How old are the flexible gas pipes ??? There is a known problem in the caravanning world where newer spec pipes ( last 5-7 years ) have caused problems that the older spec pipes didn't and as pipes should be replaced every 3 years it has become quite common. It is caused by the plascticiser ( spelling ??) in the pipes being leached out by the gas flow then being deposited inside the regulator, so causing regulator problems. When mine failed it gave similar fault to yours .. worked fine at low flow but useless at high flows.

Solution was a new regulator and stainless steel braided pipes, for some reason the rubber inside those pipes does not suffer the same problems ... :(



Thanks Entwood. That's interesting.

We have lived here for seven years and and have not replaced anything at all .......regulator pipes etc..etc.. :y

Title: Re: Gas fire problem
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 19 September 2011, 21:59:59
Quote
But that would cost money and Opti is a tight bstard  ::)


You're the one who lives in the North.... ::) ::) ::) ;) The further North you go ........the tighter they get. :y


 
Title: Re: Gas fire problem
Post by: Entwood on 19 September 2011, 22:10:01
Quote
Quote
How old are the flexible gas pipes ??? There is a known problem in the caravanning world where newer spec pipes ( last 5-7 years ) have caused problems that the older spec pipes didn't and as pipes should be replaced every 3 years it has become quite common. It is caused by the plascticiser ( spelling ??) in the pipes being leached out by the gas flow then being deposited inside the regulator, so causing regulator problems. When mine failed it gave similar fault to yours .. worked fine at low flow but useless at high flows.

Solution was a new regulator and stainless steel braided pipes, for some reason the rubber inside those pipes does not suffer the same problems ... :(



Thanks Entwood. That's interesting.

We have lived here for seven years and and have not replaced anything at all .......regulator pipes etc..etc.. :y


This article explains the problems in touring vans ....  now I don't know if your regulator is the same .. but my guess is your pipes might be longer !!!

http://www.nationalcaravan.co.uk/images/news/gas_regulator_blockages_rev1.pdf
Title: Re: Gas fire problem
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 25 September 2011, 15:54:29
Here is a picture of our current regulator. It services 2 x 47kg propane bottles. I can't see another one exactly like it on Ebay or the internet in general.

Any ideas which regulator would be suitable to replace it, Chaps?  :y

(http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae183/janbowles/regulator.jpg)

(http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae183/janbowles/regulator1.jpg)
Title: Re: Gas fire problem
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 25 September 2011, 19:10:17
Something like this Opti.....

http://www.gasequipmentdirect.co.uk/Store/Product/MB2C-12-TP.aspx

Seems to be a good price too......looking at the reviews on it... :-\
Title: Re: Gas fire problem
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 25 September 2011, 19:18:19
PS. Your current regulator looks as old as my 30yo central heating boiler, which got condemned this week  ;D (Still works but got a leaking heat exchanger which is an obsolete part)
Title: Re: Gas fire problem
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 25 September 2011, 19:25:39
PS. Your current regulator looks as old as my 30yo central heating boiler, which got condemned this week  ;D (Still works but got a leaking heat exchanger which is an obsolete part)

Thanks for the link Taxi Driver. It is much appreciated. It looks like it is a simple DIY job, too. We have lived at our present address for 7 years and it has not been changed in that time, so our regulator may well be as old as the hills. :y
Title: Re: Gas fire problem
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 25 September 2011, 19:42:33
PS. Your current regulator looks as old as my 30yo central heating boiler, which got condemned this week  ;D (Still works but got a leaking heat exchanger which is an obsolete part)

Thanks for the link Taxi Driver. It is much appreciated. It looks like it is a simple DIY job, too. We have lived at our present address for 7 years and it has not been changed in that time, so our regulator may well be as old as the hills. :y

As long as you have some basic knowledge of gas fitting  :y

Mind you, current regulations probably say you have to have it installed by a 'gas safe' fitter  :-\
Title: Re: Gas fire problem
Post by: Osprey on 26 September 2011, 15:05:34
Just stumbled across this for sale at Calor Gas here (http://www.calor.co.uk/shop/product/clesse-auto-changeover-euro-caravan-30mbar-2-cyl-no-hoses-/78/) - looks more or less identical:

(http://www.calor.co.uk/images/1072/original/Caravan_Changeover_30mbar.jpg)

And yes, it is illegal for you to fit it yourself unless you are Gas Safe registered  :-X
Title: Re: Gas fire problem
Post by: aaronjb on 26 September 2011, 15:17:34
http://www.miketheboilerman.com/diy.htm

Quote
The regulations draw a distinction between doing gas work for nothing and doing it in return for payment (of any kind - not just money). If you are receiving payment you MUST be Gas Safe Registered, or the penalty can be a prison sentence. If you are NOT being rewarded in any way (e.g. DIY for yourself) then you need only be what the regulation describes as 'competent'.
Title: Re: Gas fire problem
Post by: Osprey on 26 September 2011, 16:02:30
I kind of agree with you aaronjb, but if a DIYer's house blew up I think you'd find the powers that be would define "competent" as meaning Gas Safe registered. 

I've been doing plumbing for friends and family for over 20 years, including installation of gas appliances.  I take care, educate myself and do a better job than many so-called professionals.  When the Corgi mullarkey came in, I started to do everything except the final connection, then get a certified friend (plenty of my friends are  ;) ) to check everything over and solder the final joint for beer money. 

Yes, the job could hardly be simpler and if it were my home I would just get on and do it gladly pay an "expert" an extortionate fee for ten minutes work.  ::)
Title: Re: Gas fire problem
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 26 September 2011, 16:30:27
I kind of agree with you aaronjb, but if a DIYer's house blew up I think you'd find the powers that be would define "competent" as meaning Gas Safe registered. 

I've been doing plumbing for friends and family for over 20 years, including installation of gas appliances.  I take care, educate myself and do a better job than many so-called professionals.  When the Corgi mullarkey came in, I started to do everything except the final connection, then get a certified friend (plenty of my friends are  ;) ) to check everything over and solder the final joint for beer money. 

Yes, the job could hardly be simpler and if it were my home I would just get on and do it gladly pay an "expert" an extortionate fee for ten minutes work.  ::)

Thats where you would need to be able to demonstrate compitency and that could be presentation of a basic test result (e.g. a leak down test).

Also given the regs, they would be hard pushed to do anything as the word  'compitent' is very open ended (and sadly seems not to apply to many of those gas safe registered from my experience!).

Title: Re: Gas fire problem
Post by: hercules on 26 September 2011, 17:06:46
if i lived nearer opti id do it for you,im an acop registered lpg fitter
Title: Re: Gas fire problem
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 26 September 2011, 17:41:13
I kind of agree with you aaronjb, but if a DIYer's house blew up I think you'd find the powers that be would define "competent" as meaning Gas Safe registered. 

I've been doing plumbing for friends and family for over 20 years, including installation of gas appliances.  I take care, educate myself and do a better job than many so-called professionals.  When the Corgi mullarkey came in, I started to do everything except the final connection, then get a certified friend (plenty of my friends are  ;) ) to check everything over and solder the final joint for beer money. 

Yes, the job could hardly be simpler and if it were my home I would just get on and do it gladly pay an "expert" an extortionate fee for ten minutes work.  ::)

Thats where you would need to be able to demonstrate compitency and that could be presentation of a basic test result (e.g. a leak down test).

Also given the regs, they would be hard pushed to do anything as the word  'compitent' is very open ended (and sadly seems not to apply to many of those gas safe registered from my experience!).

Is that where you turn the gas back on and then check all the joints you've made with a ciggie lighter  ::) ;D
Title: Re: Gas fire problem
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 05 October 2011, 17:46:26
I've just fitted my new regulator, but still have exactly the same problem. The gas fire just shuts down (clicks off) for no apparent reason.

I've noticed that the pilot flame is pretty small. I'm wondering if the fire detects (wrongly) that the pilot light has gone out, and consequently shuts the gas off.

Any ideas chaps?  :y :y

(http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae183/janbowles/P1010112.jpg)

(http://i970.photobucket.com/albums/ae183/janbowles/P1010118.jpg)
Title: Re: Gas fire problem
Post by: Kevin Wood on 05 October 2011, 17:50:12
That looks like a thermocouple just touching the pilot light flame. Its' job is to hold the gas valve open unless the pilot flame goes out in which case the valve springs shut.

My guess is that either the thermocouple or the calve it connects to is defective.

Shame you've replaced the regulator for nothing. >:(
Title: Re: Gas fire problem
Post by: justjohn on 05 October 2011, 18:42:52
My guess is that either the thermocouple or the calve it connects to is defective.
I would agree, flame failure device faulty, although just a guess.
Maybe better getting it serviced and flu checked as well?
Title: Re: Gas fire problem
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 05 October 2011, 18:59:11
That looks like a thermocouple just touching the pilot light flame. Its' job is to hold the gas valve open unless the pilot flame goes out in which case the valve springs shut.

My guess is that either the thermocouple or the calve it connects to is defective.

Shame you've replaced the regulator for nothing. >:(


The original regulator was older than Moses, so replaced (£33) as a precaution. Is this thermocouple Johnnie easy and inexpensive to replace?