Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: tunnie on 07 October 2009, 16:34:50

Title: MOT failed
Post by: tunnie on 07 October 2009, 16:34:50
On a track rod end.

I can't be bothered to do it myself really, going to let the garage do it. But should they be replaced in pairs? I think they keep the tyres flat on the road? Will the tracking / geometry need doing once its been changed? Is it worth replacing them in pairs?
Title: Re: MOT failed
Post by: Jimbob on 07 October 2009, 17:08:37
Ljay's failed on one too.

Advised just to replace the one.

about £30 from a factor, and easy to fit.

You will need you geometry doing afterwards though.

good guide in the maint section on doing them  :y
Title: Re: MOT failed
Post by: tunnie on 07 October 2009, 17:11:05
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Ljay's failed on one too.

Advised just to replace the one.

about £30 from a factor, and easy to fit.

You will need you geometry doing afterwards though.

good guide in the maint section on doing them  :y

'dangle berries'  >:(

Garage quoted me £30 as well for the part, and £30 to fit.

Seen the guide, but i really can't be bothered to do it  ;D

Besides i think if i take it away, then take it back i will have to pay for another MOT anyway. This way its just 1 MOT and the track rod.
Title: Re: MOT failed
Post by: Jimbob on 07 October 2009, 17:12:25
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Ljay's failed on one too.

Advised just to replace the one.

about £30 from a factor, and easy to fit.

You will need you geometry doing afterwards though.

good guide in the maint section on doing them  :y

'dangle berries'  >:(

Garage quoted me £30 as well for the part, and £30 to fit.

Seen the guide, but i really can't be bothered to do it  ;D

Besides i think if i take it away, then take it back i will have to pay for another MOT anyway. This way its just 1 MOT and the track rod.


you should have 10 working days for a free retest  :y
Title: Re: MOT failed
Post by: Jimbob on 07 October 2009, 17:14:01
you would need to budget for a ball joint splitter as well if you dont have one  :y

The mot, part, tool, and geometry reset came to just under £100 for me.
Title: Re: MOT failed
Post by: tunnie on 07 October 2009, 17:14:22
i am still feeling very lazy  ;D
Title: Re: MOT failed
Post by: tunnie on 07 October 2009, 17:15:12
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you would need to budget for a ball joint splitter as well if you dont have one  :y

The mot, part, tool, and geometry reset came to just under £100 for me.

Funnily enough thats what they quoted me all in too. ( although i will take it back to WIM for a reset)
Title: Re: MOT failed
Post by: Kevin Wood on 07 October 2009, 17:17:26
It should only affect the toe setting alignment-wise.

kevin
Title: Re: MOT failed
Post by: tunnie on 07 October 2009, 17:18:48
not worth being WIM'd ?
Title: Re: MOT failed
Post by: Jimbob on 07 October 2009, 17:26:06
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not worth being WIM'd ?


I would!
Title: Re: MOT failed
Post by: Kevin Wood on 07 October 2009, 17:26:20
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not worth being WIM'd ?

I wouldn't say so if everything else is setup well. Just get them to set the toe back to the setting on the WIM report.

Kevin
Title: Re: MOT failed
Post by: tunnie on 07 October 2009, 17:29:05
the trouble is this is a fairly basic back street place, they have not noticed twice my hand brake fails to hold on one side.  ;D

I doubt they could get the setting back to WIM standard, it was done around June this year when i had new fronts on, due to bad outside wear.

I think with the miles i am doing, the £60 + fuel is worth another trip to WIM.
Title: Re: MOT failed
Post by: Jimbob on 07 October 2009, 17:30:23
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the trouble is this is a fairly basic back street place, they have not noticed twice my hand brake fails to hold on one side.  ;D

I doubt they could get the setting back to WIM standard, it was done around June this year when i had new fronts on, due to bad outside wear.

I think with the miles i am doing, the £60 + fuel is worth another trip to WIM.


I didnt make the trip all the way to WIM, but did get a local place with the same gear to mirror the WIM settings  :y

but you are a LOT closer than I am  :y
Title: Re: MOT failed
Post by: tunnie on 07 October 2009, 17:34:04
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the trouble is this is a fairly basic back street place, they have not noticed twice my hand brake fails to hold on one side.  ;D

I doubt they could get the setting back to WIM standard, it was done around June this year when i had new fronts on, due to bad outside wear.

I think with the miles i am doing, the £60 + fuel is worth another trip to WIM.


I didnt make the trip all the way to WIM, but did get a local place with the same gear to mirror the WIM settings  :y

but you are a LOT closer than I am  :y

I reckon its about £20 quid in petrol return....
Title: Re: MOT failed
Post by: Entwood on 07 October 2009, 17:56:52
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the trouble is this is a fairly basic back street place, they have not noticed twice my hand brake fails to hold on one side.  ;D

I doubt they could get the setting back to WIM standard, it was done around June this year when i had new fronts on, due to bad outside wear.

I think with the miles i am doing, the £60 + fuel is worth another trip to WIM.


I didnt make the trip all the way to WIM, but did get a local place with the same gear to mirror the WIM settings  :y

but you are a LOT closer than I am  :y

I reckon its about £20 quid in petrol return....

Given the price of a new set of tyres if left to wear prematurely ..... thats a bargain !!! even with the WIM charges added !!

:)
Title: Re: MOT failed
Post by: tunnie on 07 October 2009, 17:59:14
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the trouble is this is a fairly basic back street place, they have not noticed twice my hand brake fails to hold on one side.  ;D

I doubt they could get the setting back to WIM standard, it was done around June this year when i had new fronts on, due to bad outside wear.

I think with the miles i am doing, the £60 + fuel is worth another trip to WIM.


I didnt make the trip all the way to WIM, but did get a local place with the same gear to mirror the WIM settings  :y

but you are a LOT closer than I am  :y

I reckon its about £20 quid in petrol return....

Given the price of a new set of tyres if left to wear prematurely ..... thats a bargain !!! even with the WIM charges added !!

:)

Agreed!  :y
Title: Re: MOT failed
Post by: KillerWatt on 07 October 2009, 18:36:41
As Kev said, track rod is only going to affect the toe setting (so assuming everything else is still good, it's a very basic check on the front end).

Crack the locknut, leave it as close as possible to original place, remove nut holding ball joint, bit of WD40 on ball joint (thread), smack the side of the hub (where ball joint connects) with 2lb club hammer, spin old track rod off, put new one on (up to the point where you left locking nut), do everything back up, job done.

Note that if ball joint does not seperate from hub when hit with 2lb club hammer, insert 4ft iron bar between track rod & chassis, then get a fat bastard to jump on the end of the 4ft bar.
Title: Re: MOT failed
Post by: Andy B on 07 October 2009, 19:01:42
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...... then get a fat bastard to  ....

That leaves you out then eh Tunnie!  :y  ;D  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: MOT failed
Post by: CaptainZok on 07 October 2009, 19:39:08
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...... then get a fat bastard to  ....

That leaves you out then eh Tunnie!  :y  ;D  ;D  ;D
I'm sure Uncle TB will help you with the job Tunnie. ;D
Title: Re: MOT failed
Post by: tunnie on 07 October 2009, 19:44:32
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...... then get a fat bastard to  ....

That leaves you out then eh Tunnie!  :y  ;D  ;D  ;D
I'm sure Uncle TB will help you with the job Tunnie. ;D

He's pissed tonight...

Its worth having it done for 30 notes, i would need to go out and buy that ball splitter too, so won't exactly save a lot.

Not cheap this MOT, 2 rear tyres - £160 - MOT and track rod £100, another WIM, £80 + petrol.

Not bad i guess really, done nothing to it all year apart from oil changes. (oh and exhaust Flexi)
Title: Re: MOT failed
Post by: Omegatoy on 07 October 2009, 20:21:16
Good grief!!!!! who the hell uses a ball joint splitter on a trackrod end???????????
undo top nut after plusgas it, when nut nearly off idiot side of trackrod end balljoint with a hammer it will flyoff!!
wheel off crack locknut as said earlier count threads when undoing it and put it back to the same amount and the tracking is exactly the same!!  :y
Title: Re: MOT failed
Post by: KillerWatt on 07 October 2009, 20:25:27
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wheel off crack locknut as said earlier count threads when undoing it and put it back to the same amount and the tracking is exactly the same!!  :y
If it is the same after reassembly, then that can only mean you have refitted the shagged ball joint  ;)
Title: Re: MOT failed
Post by: Omegatoy on 07 October 2009, 20:28:03
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wheel off crack locknut as said earlier count threads when undoing it and put it back to the same amount and the tracking is exactly the same!!  :y
If it is the same after reassembly, then that can only mean you have refitted the shagged ball joint  ;)

lolol nearly!!! the length of the trackrod dont change just because the joint is worn tho? just flaps about a bit!!! :y
Title: Re: MOT failed
Post by: TheBoy on 07 October 2009, 20:33:21
I have a balljoint splitter here Tunnie.

Oh, and I haven't touched a drop tonight ;)
Title: Re: MOT failed
Post by: TheBoy on 07 October 2009, 20:34:03
And when done, as its tracking only, might be worth getting checked at ATS somewhere.
Title: Re: MOT failed
Post by: Andy B on 07 October 2009, 20:35:15
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...... then get a fat bastard to  ....

That leaves you out then eh Tunnie!  :y  ;D  ;D  ;D
I'm sure Uncle TB will help you with the job Tunnie. ;D

 ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D
Does he know of someone suitable then?   ::)  ::)  ::)  :y
Title: Re: MOT failed
Post by: KillerWatt on 07 October 2009, 22:01:53
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lolol nearly!!! the length of the trackrod dont change just because the joint is worn tho? just flaps about a bit!!! :y
I've seen track rod ends where the ball is so worn that it is easily able to alter the overall length by a good couple of millimetres.
Title: Re: MOT failed
Post by: Entwood on 07 October 2009, 22:06:18
IF the tracking has not been reset from before the wear commenced, then the setting "may" be pretty much OK ... depending on manufacturing tolerances between what was fitted some years back and what is now being fitted.

IF the tracking has been adjusted to compensate for any wear over time than the setting will be wrong.

With tyres at over £100 a pop is it really worth the risk of ruining £200 worths for a simple tracking check ???
Title: Re: MOT failed
Post by: tunnie on 07 October 2009, 22:49:03
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And when done, as its tracking only, might be worth getting checked at ATS somewhere.

Might as well drop it down WIM anyway for a winter tune up. Already done 6k with the fronts. As Entwood says with tyres nearly £100 a pop, its worth it.
Title: Re: MOT failed
Post by: Kevin Wood on 07 October 2009, 22:52:46
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lolol nearly!!! the length of the trackrod dont change just because the joint is worn tho? just flaps about a bit!!! :y
I've seen track rod ends where the ball is so worn that it is easily able to alter the overall length by a good couple of millimetres.

Good point. In addition, I have seen pattern parts where the dimensions are different - e.g. the threaded section is a little longer which means it goes out if you just count the turns or screw it up to the locknut.

However, you know you've only put one side of the car out, a basic tracking measurement is only checking the angle between the front wheels so if you lock the steering wheel straight you know there's only one variable. It doesn't need a 4 wheel machine to measure it. A basic toe gauge is more than adequate.

Your biggest challenge will be getting the above across to the guy holding the spanner, who possibly wasn't ever that great at geometry. ::)

Kevin
Title: Re: MOT failed
Post by: tunnie on 07 October 2009, 22:55:46
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lolol nearly!!! the length of the trackrod dont change just because the joint is worn tho? just flaps about a bit!!! :y
I've seen track rod ends where the ball is so worn that it is easily able to alter the overall length by a good couple of millimetres.

Good point. In addition, I have seen pattern parts where the dimensions are different - e.g. the threaded section is a little longer which means it goes out if you just count the turns or screw it up to the locknut.

However, you know you've only put one side of the car out, a basic tracking measurement is only checking the angle between the front wheels so if you lock the steering wheel straight you know there's only one variable. It doesn't need a 4 wheel machine to measure it. A basic toe gauge is more than adequate.

Your biggest challenge will be getting the above across to the guy holding the spanner, who possibly wasn't ever that great at geometry. ::)

Kevin

Exactly, hence WIM - With my 3k miles a month, its worth the trip.
Title: Re: MOT failed
Post by: Kevin Wood on 07 October 2009, 23:03:32
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Exactly, hence WIM - With my 3k miles a month, its worth the trip.

Rather than shell out 80 quid plus the petrol I think I'd give it a shot. :-/

Kevin
Title: Re: MOT failed
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 07 October 2009, 23:17:22
Why not get WIM to fit it and alaign it, then you know it's right.  If you fit and a local garage tracks it then you are paying twice, plus if the get it wrong it could be extra wear on the tryes.  Lets face it, MOT and a WIM check with the mileage you do thats the car sorted for quite a while.