Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Gaffers on 09 October 2009, 09:54:30
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Sorry to bark on about this but I thought that this deserves a new thread...
I am looking into getting this omega I have acquired back to Camberley from Bristol. A frames and Dolly are illegal for such a long distance, they are only good for getting a vehicle off the motorway.
So my choices now are either getting it delivered, or hiring a trailer and pulling it myself. Now I have an omega and I have access to a trailer which weighs about 550kg. I am sceptical about being both legal and safe trailering an omega with another omega. Does anyone else here have the knowledge and experience of this?
TIA :y
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The law is reasonably simple ... and Mr Plod will look at your VIN plate in the first instance before taking you to weigh bridges/court/etc etc
The plate gives (1) the maximum allowable weight for your vehicle (2) The maximum Train weight allowable for your vehicle. subtract 1 from 2 and that is the maximum BRAKED trailer weight your vehicle can tow.
For my 3.2 elite the figures are 2200 Kg, 4075 kg which leaves 1875. Your trailer weighs 550 kg .. so the weight on the trailer must not exceed 1325 Kg.
AFAIK that puts a miggy out side the limits .. unless it is partially stripped ??
Note (1)
All the above are referring to VEHICLE PLATED weights .. not ACTUAL weights ... as I said .. Mr Plod can read a plate easily . actual weighing takes time.
(2) You need a B+E licence to tow at such weights..... :)
Thats the law side .... now safety.... IMHO it is very, very simple ...and based on over 20 years of towing ....
If the weight on the "hook" is more than the car in front .... which will take control going down a hill at ANY speed ??? ie .. the heavier the trailer relative to the tow car ... the more risk you take .. simple laws of physics.
It has nowt to do with acceleration or braking (although they are important) .. it is all to do with the "tail wagging the dog" .. once the trailer takes control your brakes, steering and throttle are all worthless.
Just my views .. nowt else .. :)
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I went to hire a twin axel trailer to tow an Omega back with my Omega Estate and the hire company wouldn't let me take the trailer, I had to find a hire company that would hire me a van with a tow ball.
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Hmm. You're talking about 2250kg at least on the trailer plus 1700 for the towing vehicle so just shy of 4000 Kg train weight. Add your own weight and the load in the towing vehicle... ::)
IIRC the max train weight placarded on my Omega is just over 4 tonnes. (on the plate on the door pillar) You might just be able to squeeze in under that.
It goes without saying that it's completely outside the Caravan Club's guidelines, etc. to tow a heavier trailer than the towing vehicle, and that it wouldn't be the most stable combination, but for a one-off trip where you'll doubtless be taking it easy.... :-/
Chances are, if you got pulled, they'd probably lob you on a weigh bridge and check against the max train weight, but clearly the assumption is that you'd have a heavily loaded car towing a smaller trailer.
Can you take the engine out of the towed car and chuck it in the boot of the towing car? ;)
http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/preparing/preparing.htm :
Police Forces use the manufacturer's recommended towing limit as their guide. Under no circumstances should the vehicle's gross train weight be exceeded. You should also refer to limitations on overall length, details can be found in this guide that deal with trailer dimensions.
I can't see a recommended towing limit in the manual. Plenty of online sources say 1750-1850.
I've towed a trailer tower that was guesstimated to be 1700, although another mate of mine later said he reckoned over 2 tonnes. :o Omega towed it quite happily with no brown trouser moments at all.
It's just the legality that bothers me...
Kevin
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I wonder if its just the towing vehicle has to have efficient enough brakes to cope ?. I would have thought a Landrover would be suitable for this sort of load, do you know anyone you could borrow one from ?.
Ken
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I wonder if its just the towing vehicle has to have efficient enough brakes to cope ?. I would have thought a Landrover would be suitable for this sort of load, do you know anyone you could borrow one from ?.
Ken
Thanks for all the speedy replies. I have a friend with a LR but he's away this weekend. So towing bar it is. Just spoken to the police for some official advice, I can take a car with towing bar onto the motorway as long as I respect the 60 mph limit and dont use the outside lane :y (B+E License requirement)
sweet! :y
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I wonder if its just the towing vehicle has to have efficient enough brakes to cope ?. I would have thought a Landrover would be suitable for this sort of load, do you know anyone you could borrow one from ?.
Ken
Thanks for all the speedy replies. I have a friend with a LR but he's away this weekend. So towing bar it is. Just spoken to the police for some official advice, I can take a car with towing bar onto the motorway as long as I respect the 60 mph limit and dont use the outside lane :y (B+E License requirement)
sweet! :y
I'm pleased you've chosen this route :)
Now which Land Rover is it, i ask,
as don't forget that an Omega can weigh more than a Landy depending on Landy size.
I used to alot of towing as part of my job & we had a Disco V6 diesel which was well up for the task (even so we still had some tail waging going on occasionally :o :o), but if you're planning on using a short wheel base. I wouldn't :'( :'( :'( :'(
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I wonder if its just the towing vehicle has to have efficient enough brakes to cope ?. I would have thought a Landrover would be suitable for this sort of load, do you know anyone you could borrow one from ?.
Ken
Thanks for all the speedy replies. I have a friend with a LR but he's away this weekend. So towing bar it is. Just spoken to the police for some official advice, I can take a car with towing bar onto the motorway as long as I respect the 60 mph limit and dont use the outside lane :y (B+E License requirement)
sweet! :y
I'm pleased you've chosen this route :)
Now which Land Rover is it, i ask,
as don't forget that an Omega can weigh more than a Landy depending on Landy size.
I used to alot of towing as part of my job & we had a Disco V6 diesel which was well up for the task (even so we still had some tail waging going on occasionally :o :o), but if you're planning on using a short wheel base. I wouldn't :'( :'( :'( :'(
Neither, and none of my work LRs either ::)
I need to get the car tomorrow so I will be driving down with a friend who will steer and brake the car I am picking up (after I have diconnected the prop) I will be pulling it with my omega :y
Now just have to tell the missus we have a second omega ::)::) ;D ;D
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Make sure to give him the key so he can get the steering lock off...
First tow I had on a rigid bar I was sat in an old Range Rover (with no engine or gearbox). The key was in the ignition but I hadn't turned it far enough. Luckily the driver was watching me and didn't go above walking pace until after I started to turn the steering. :o After that it was easy, low geared steering and no weight over the front axle for a 1 mile tow.
The second tow was in my last Omega when the crank sensor failed outside the office. Bright orange AA van, flashing amber lights on the light bar. The driver couldn't see me, I couldn't see anything. Without the engine running the brake pedal in an Omega is like standing on a piece of wood and the steering feels as if the steering lock is on even when it isn't.
After 12 miles I was shattered.
Make sure you slow down to walking pace for corners & roundabouts & have some way of communicating if he needs a rest :y
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Just take it easy Guffer, I've only just made your aquaintance mate, & would like it to continue LOL ;D :y
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Me too phil :y
I am a very careful driver, there's alot of reasons why which some on here know about but not everyone needs to, hence me asking a lot of questions making sure what I am doing is both legal and safe.
The bloke coming with me and I are both quite strong lads so we can either:
1) switch every 15 miles or so and 'griz-it', or
2) could I idle the engine with a blown oil cooler without causing further damage?
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I went to hire a twin axel trailer to tow an Omega back with my Omega Estate and the hire company wouldn't let me take the trailer, I had to find a hire company that would hire me a van with a tow ball.
I am glad you did youth ;)
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2) could I idle the engine with a blown oil cooler without causing further damage?
If the oil pump is any good you should get almost full oil pressure at tick over so I wouldn't want to try it.
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2) could I idle the engine with a blown oil cooler without causing further damage?
If the oil pump is any good you should get almost full oil pressure at tick over so I wouldn't want to try it.
Big guns it is then ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Thanks for all the speedy replies. I have a friend with a LR but he's away this weekend. So towing bar it is. Just spoken to the police for some official advice, I can take a car with towing bar onto the motorway as long as I respect the 60 mph limit and dont use the outside lane :y (B+E License requirement)
sweet! :y
Only if you passed your test after the early nineties.
If you still want towing, pay my fuel and beer tokens and I'll bring it back for you.
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Only if you passed your test after the early nineties.
.......
1st Jan 97 to be exact! ;)
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i towed a 2.5 petrol on a trailer with my 2.5 diesel about 200 miles and think i was overloaded as both rear mud flaps were touching the road.moved the car back slightly and got home no proplems,but i have done a lot of towing and would not RECOMENED this.also car would only do 50 mph and died on hills
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I have a towing 'A' frame and have towed many vehicles with it (nothing as big as an omega though) and have found it to be very good, far superior & safer than using a towing bar. The mind boggles how the safest option can be the illegal one.
Could you use an 'A' frame and have someone sitting in the drivers seat as if it were a towing bar? This saves worrying about steering and braking.
and I thought you had to have the car you are towing insured if you are using a bar / rope?
Come to think about it, can you tow at all if you do not have a be & E licence?
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I have a towing 'A' frame and have towed many vehicles with it (nothing as big as an omega though) and have found it to be very good, far superior & safer than using a towing bar. The mind boggles how the safest option can be the illegal one.
Could you use an 'A' frame and have someone sitting in the drivers seat as if it were a towing bar? This saves worrying about steering and braking.
and I thought you had to have the car you are towing insured if you are using a bar / rope?
Come to think about it, can you tow at all if you do not have a be & E licence?
with simply a B cat license you can tow upto 750kg. I have B+E and C1+E (upto 3500kg iirc) :y
I was unable to get the driveshaft off safely due to the location of the car but I have 2 more options to get it back. One involves an A-Frame a friend has :y ;) ;) ;)
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Is this car driveable & legal on the road? I am in Camberley now! Although only for another hour or 2, but i am usually down this way a fair bit.
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I have a towing 'A' frame and have towed many vehicles with it (nothing as big as an omega though) and have found it to be very good, far superior & safer than using a towing bar. The mind boggles how the safest option can be the illegal one.
Could you use an 'A' frame and have someone sitting in the drivers seat as if it were a towing bar? This saves worrying about steering and braking.
and I thought you had to have the car you are towing insured if you are using a bar / rope?
Come to think about it, can you tow at all if you do not have a be & E licence?
with simply a B cat license you can tow upto 750kg. I have B+E and C1+E (upto 3500kg iirc) :y
I was unable to get the driveshaft off safely due to the location of the car but I have 2 more options to get it back. One involves an A-Frame a friend has :y ;) ;) ;)
Still need to pull the driveshaft though
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I have a towing 'A' frame and have towed many vehicles with it (nothing as big as an omega though) and have found it to be very good, far superior & safer than using a towing bar. The mind boggles how the safest option can be the illegal one.
Could you use an 'A' frame and have someone sitting in the drivers seat as if it were a towing bar? This saves worrying about steering and braking.
and I thought you had to have the car you are towing insured if you are using a bar / rope?
Come to think about it, can you tow at all if you do not have a be & E licence?
with simply a B cat license you can tow upto 750kg. I have B+E and C1+E (upto 3500kg iirc) :y
I was unable to get the driveshaft off safely due to the location of the car but I have 2 more options to get it back. One involves an A-Frame a friend has :y ;) ;) ;)
Still need to pull the driveshaft though
I know :-[
But I have acquired some ramps that would make the uncoupling much safer, but I just dont want to take a mate all the way out there again to just have to take him home again. It was such a waste of his time :-[
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I wonder if its just the towing vehicle has to have efficient enough brakes to cope ?. I would have thought a Landrover would be suitable for this sort of load, do you know anyone you could borrow one from ?.
Ken
Thanks for all the speedy replies. I have a friend with a LR but he's away this weekend. So towing bar it is. Just spoken to the police for some official advice, I can take a car with towing bar onto the motorway as long as I respect the 60 mph limit and dont use the outside lane :y (B+E License requirement)
sweet! :y
I'm pleased you've chosen this route :)
Now which Land Rover is it, i ask,
as don't forget that an Omega can weigh more than a Landy depending on Landy size.
I used to alot of towing as part of my job & we had a Disco V6 diesel which was well up for the task (even so we still had some tail waging going on occasionally :o :o), but if you're planning on using a short wheel base. I wouldn't :'( :'( :'( :'(
as far as im aware being a lr discovery owner that the weight of my disco is 2.5 tonnes ive yet to see a omega get close to 2 tonnes and the train weight or weight you can tow with a lr is normally 3.5 tonnes