Hello everyone.
I just got my fourth mig which is an automatic. I've always driven manual cars so now I've got a few questions. I hope you can help!
1. Is it ok to leave the car in drive all the time when you are out or should you put it in neutral at traffic lights etc.?
2. Are automatic gearboxes as reliable as manual ones?
3.Do you still have to get your clutch replaced when it wears out?
4.How is acceleration affected?
5. How is mpg affected?
6. Do you need to top up gearbox oil or anything like that?
7. If the gearbox fails is it economically viable to replace?
8. Is it expensive to replace?
9. Is it a massive job to replace?
10. Are automatics aimed at the older driver?
Thanks for your advice and opinions! :-* :-* :-* :-*
Hello everyone.
I just got my fourth mig which is an automatic. I've always driven manual cars so now I've got a few questions. I hope you can help!
1. Is it ok to leave the car in drive all the time when you are out or should you put it in neutral at traffic lights etc.? I leave mine in drive at the lights, but put it in park during traffic hold ups.
2. Are automatic gearboxes as reliable as manual ones? With an oil and filter change if small problems start to develop then no reason why not
3.Do you still have to get your clutch replaced when it wears out? They dont have the same type of clutch as a manual, they do have some type of clutch but have no human intervention as such for changeing gear.
4.How is acceleration affected? Bit slower, but then if you put it in sport mode and boot it it can still get good results.
5. How is mpg affected? Depends on driver, I tend to be a more sedate driver with an auto.
6. Do you need to top up gearbox oil or anything like that? Generally. No.
7. If the gearbox fails is it economically viable to replace? See the lads that break them for spares.
8. Is it expensive to replace? If wearing your bikini whilst haggling, then no. ::)
9. Is it a massive job to replace? Dunno, but dont want to find out either. :-X
10. Are automatics aimed at the older driver? Not at all.
Thanks for your advice and opinions! :-* :-* :-* :-*
4 Slightly slower on paper but in the real world not really that noticable .... (dons coat waiting for all those whoe want to be in control ::))I'll agree with that, except to add if you drop it in to sport mode then they do move pretty quickly considering their size & weight.
.....
As for having a bit more control, I'm afraid you only get that with a manual. .......
I've had about a doze Omegas over the years and all but one have been auto.
Very relaxed way of driving and you can also get it to change gear when you want bu adjusting the RATE at which you apply the throttle.
The only think to watch out for, in my view, is that in sow mode the transmission oil will heat up and eventually take the car out of snow mode whilst displaying a fault message.
Apart from that, and being careful in the snow & Ice - enjoy.
As for having a bit more control, I'm afraid you only get that with a manual.I had a 2.5 manual for 6 years. Three months ago I changed it for a 2.6 auto.
However, an auto box in a big motor is very nice.
1. Is it ok to leave the car in drive all the time when you are out or should you put it in neutral at traffic lights etc.?1) Yes, though if stood for more than 20s or so, i knock mine to N, and apply handbrake like a good little boy
2. Are automatic gearboxes as reliable as manual ones?
3.Do you still have to get your clutch replaced when it wears out?
4.How is acceleration affected?
5. How is mpg affected?
6. Do you need to top up gearbox oil or anything like that?
7. If the gearbox fails is it economically viable to replace?
8. Is it expensive to replace?
9. Is it a massive job to replace?
10. Are automatics aimed at the older driver?
i take it hte miggy box wont take the abuse my volvo one did then ( i.e running it up the drag strip) at the lights on the strip engage 1st and sports mode T/C off left foot on brake hold at 3500rpm when green let the brake go ???It handles it fine. Apparently ::) (only the stall speed is less, around 2.5k seems to be ideal. Apparently ::))
hmmmm not sure wether to try it now then or not lol, best not for time being till i get use to it, dont wanna be picking bits up of the autobox of the stripQuotei take it hte miggy box wont take the abuse my volvo one did then ( i.e running it up the drag strip) at the lights on the strip engage 1st and sports mode T/C off left foot on brake hold at 3500rpm when green let the brake go ???It handles it fine. Apparently ::) (only the stall speed is less, around 2.5k seems to be ideal. Apparently ::))
... when using cruise-mine will go down two gears in quick succession, then change back up after a few seconds rather than building back to the desired speed more gently. (NOT in Sport mode)
Reading this thread with interest, I pick up my auto Miggy next Monday.
It's will be the first ever auto I've owned in 33 years of driving. And yes on the test drive made the classic mistake of using my left foot to brake, I was bearly moving though. Lets see how many times I make that mistake when I get it.
Mick
Quotehmmmm not sure wether to try it now then or not lol, best not for time being till i get use to it, dont wanna be picking bits up of the autobox of the stripQuotei take it hte miggy box wont take the abuse my volvo one did then ( i.e running it up the drag strip) at the lights on the strip engage 1st and sports mode T/C off left foot on brake hold at 3500rpm when green let the brake go ???It handles it fine. Apparently ::) (only the stall speed is less, around 2.5k seems to be ideal. Apparently ::))
Reading this thread with interest, I pick up my auto Miggy next Monday.As Kevin said, once you've had it for a few days you will subconciously "learn" what the box is going to do, and when it's going to do it...so you can compensate accordingly if you want something different from it.
It's will be the first ever auto I've owned in 33 years of driving. And yes on the test drive made the classic mistake of using my left foot to brake, I was bearly moving though. Lets see how many times I make that mistake when I get it.
Mick
Quote... when using cruise-mine will go down two gears in quick succession, then change back up after a few seconds rather than building back to the desired speed more gently. (NOT in Sport mode)
It probably isn't going down 2 gears, actually. The box has a feature called "torque converter lockup" which activates when cruising to bypass the torque converter and improve economy. When the lockup comes in the RPM will drop by an amount dependant on the load - probably about 500 RPM when cruising.
When the box changes gear it has to come out of TC lockup so it will change gear and then lockup the TC again a second or two later. This is why the RPM rises when it changes down, and then drops a little in a second step as the TC locks up.
Cruise control is another system where the ECU doesn't have all the information the driver does. If the speed is dropping below that set on the cruise control the ECU will apply a proportional amount of throttle. That may result in the transmission changing down where a "real" driver would have avoided the change. All the cruise control knows is that it has to keep a constant speed.
Kevin
But as I said earlier, a big motor (such as the V6 Mig) with an auto box is very nice to drive (that's modern day auto box BTW, not the crap we had 20 odd years ago).
QuoteBut as I said earlier, a big motor (such as the V6 Mig) with an auto box is very nice to drive (that's modern day auto box BTW, not the crap we had 20 odd years ago).
..big, not small, as I discovered on holiday this year when I was presented with a Seat Ibiza 1.4 Automatic hire car. ::)
Kevin
QuoteReading this thread with interest, I pick up my auto Miggy next Monday.
It's will be the first ever auto I've owned in 33 years of driving. And yes on the test drive made the classic mistake of using my left foot to brake, I was bearly moving though. Lets see how many times I make that mistake when I get it.
Mick
The first auto I drove was a Rover 216 auto loan car-given to me while my own identical, but manual 214 was in for another engine replacement.
I got about half a mile, then tried to change down at the first island and used the brake pedal instead of the (missing) clutch. This flat-spotted all the tyres and the guy behind aged about 10 years ;D ;D ;D
Tip if driving auto first time-take off your left shoe :y
Quote1. Is it ok to leave the car in drive all the time when you are out or should you put it in neutral at traffic lights etc.?1) Yes, though if stood for more than 20s or so, i knock mine to N, and apply handbrake like a good little boy
2. Are automatic gearboxes as reliable as manual ones?
3.Do you still have to get your clutch replaced when it wears out?
4.How is acceleration affected?
5. How is mpg affected?
6. Do you need to top up gearbox oil or anything like that?
7. If the gearbox fails is it economically viable to replace?
8. Is it expensive to replace?
9. Is it a massive job to replace?
10. Are automatics aimed at the older driver?
2) No
3) No, it doesn't have one
4) Generally lower from standing start, but due to different gearing, may beat manual at certain other speeds
5) Generally much lower around town, often same ballpark on a motorway run
6) Ideally replace oil every 50-75k
7) With OOF, yes, viable! Otherwise, no
8) Breakers on OOF will sell then for £75-£120. Recon from specialist will be £500+
9) Difficult to do on your own
10) Not really.
An answer to your question one. If your sat in traffic for a long time & not really moving much, it's a good idea to select neutral or park (especially in hot weather). The gear oil will get too hot & this won't do it much good.
As for KW's control aspect, in slippery condition like snow for instance, auto's are better. (before some one pipes up & says blah blah. Remember JC in Iceland on the glacier with Icelander's ;))
QuoteAn answer to your question one. If your sat in traffic for a long time & not really moving much, it's a good idea to select neutral or park (especially in hot weather). The gear oil will get too hot & this won't do it much good.
As for KW's control aspect, in slippery condition like snow for instance, auto's are better. (before some one pipes up & says blah blah. Remember JC in Iceland on the glacier with Icelander's ;))
Yeah with massive off road grippy truck tyres running at 4 psi.
Reading this thread with interest, I pick up my auto Miggy next Monday.
It's will be the first ever auto I've owned in 33 years of driving. And yes on the test drive made the classic mistake of using my left foot to brake, I was bearly moving though. Lets see how many times I make that mistake when I get it.
Mick
QuoteQuote1. Is it ok to leave the car in drive all the time when you are out or should you put it in neutral at traffic lights etc.?1) Yes, though if stood for more than 20s or so, i knock mine to N, and apply handbrake like a good little boy
2. Are automatic gearboxes as reliable as manual ones?
3.Do you still have to get your clutch replaced when it wears out?
4.How is acceleration affected?
5. How is mpg affected?
6. Do you need to top up gearbox oil or anything like that?
7. If the gearbox fails is it economically viable to replace?
8. Is it expensive to replace?
9. Is it a massive job to replace?
10. Are automatics aimed at the older driver?
2) No
3) No, it doesn't have one
4) Generally lower from standing start, but due to different gearing, may beat manual at certain other speeds
5) Generally much lower around town, often same ballpark on a motorway run
6) Ideally replace oil every 50-75k
7) With OOF, yes, viable! Otherwise, no
8) Breakers on OOF will sell then for £75-£120. Recon from specialist will be £500+
9) Difficult to do on your own
10) Not really.
Why?
A useful tip, if you want additional engine braking when going down slight hills, is to flick it into sports mode.
An answer to your question one. If your sat in traffic for a long time & not really moving much, it's a good idea to select neutral or park (especially in hot weather). The gear oil will get too hot & this won't do it much good.How do you force a higher gear (to reduce wheelspin) when you don't have a winter mode on your auto box then?
As for KW's control aspect, in slippery condition like snow for instance, auto's are better. (before some one pipes up & says blah blah. Remember JC in Iceland on the glacier with Icelander's ;))
One of the best things about an auto I think is when pulling up to a junction, or rounabout, the gearbox is immediately ready with the right gear when you press the GO pedal.....Funnily enough, our old tractor of an Isuzu always seems to be in the right gear at any given point in time....but the garage insists we have a manual gearbox.
This allows you a swifter, more controlled departure and allows you to enter into moving traffic safely too.......
Have had 2 Omegas, both autos, and wouldnt have it any other way......!!!
:y
QuoteOne of the best things about an auto I think is when pulling up to a junction, or rounabout, the gearbox is immediately ready with the right gear when you press the GO pedal.....Funnily enough, our old tractor of an Isuzu always seems to be in the right gear at any given point in time....but the garage insists we have a manual gearbox.
This allows you a swifter, more controlled departure and allows you to enter into moving traffic safely too.......
Have had 2 Omegas, both autos, and wouldnt have it any other way......!!!
:y
A manual box will give a better response if the driver is actually awake (which they should be anyway), if for no other reason than because there is no torque convertor to slip.QuoteQuoteOne of the best things about an auto I think is when pulling up to a junction, or rounabout, the gearbox is immediately ready with the right gear when you press the GO pedal.....Funnily enough, our old tractor of an Isuzu always seems to be in the right gear at any given point in time....but the garage insists we have a manual gearbox.
This allows you a swifter, more controlled departure and allows you to enter into moving traffic safely too.......
Have had 2 Omegas, both autos, and wouldnt have it any other way......!!!
:y
lol
....but an auto is immediate KW.....dont even have to worry about missing a gap cos of being in the wrong gear.......and I know how to use a manual before ye ask.....!!!
:y :y
.....
Dont make the mistake of useing your left foot to brake whilst on the move, if you do it will feel like you just threw an anchor out of the back and the chain suddenly got tight. Its amazing how much more pressure your left foot uses for the clutch than the right foot does for the brake. ::)
I did it once when I was learning to drive, never again. :-/
.......and manual will seem like unnecessary hassle. :y
Quote.......and manual will seem like unnecessary hassle. :y
Spot on ........ ;) ;) ;)
QuoteQuote.......and manual will seem like unnecessary hassle. :y
Spot on ........ ;) ;) ;)
Totally wrong, autos leave me disconnected. Might as well be sat on a bus.
QuoteQuoteQuote.......and manual will seem like unnecessary hassle. :y
Spot on ........ ;) ;) ;)
Totally wrong, autos leave me disconnected. Might as well be sat on a bus.
I agree, they're comfy to drive but I much prefer manual any day.
This thread is turning into a 'which is best? auto or manual?' Neither is better than the other. One or the other suits one person more than the other type. ;) ;) ;)
This thread is turning into a 'which is best? auto or manual?' Neither is better than the other. One or the other suits one person more than the other type. ;) ;) ;)
Was handy in stop start traffic, but thats the only time! Took mother tunnies 3.0 auto to work today, if both were mine, i'd take the manual 2.2 every day. :)
it would not have bothered me if mine had been auto or manual still would have had it, i do live in the london area, but folks live lincolnshire and leicestershire area`s so plenty of country roads............. hmmmmmm semi auto with paddle shift could be a option lolGot my Saab from near you, would've came for a cuppa if I had known ;D
i agree with all of the above except
Autos are for old men and lazy people :y
Doug
Quotei agree with all of the above except
Autos are for old men and lazy people :y
Doug
Is it that or are autos for rich men who can afford a bit more fuel money for a bit more relaxing drive......
lol
:y
Quotei agree with all of the above except
Autos are for old men and lazy people :y
Doug
Is it that or are autos for rich men who can afford a bit more fuel money for a bit more relaxing drive......
lol
:y
i tried left boot braking, not a good idea!
Quotei tried left boot braking, not a good idea!
Not if you ever intend to drive a manual again!
It's interesting that, when driving a car, I have absolutely no subtlety in my left foot (some would say there's not much in the right foot either, but in comparison to the left one it is!) but I've never noticed the two being any different when they're connected to the rudder of a glider.
Kevin
I drove my auto for the first time yesterday I followed advice given in this thread. I tucked my left leg behind my right leg, it worked. Only trouble is how long will it stay there before cramp sets in. [smiley=cheesy.gif]
I drove my auto for the first time yesterday I followed advice given in this thread. I tucked my left leg behind my right leg, it worked. Only trouble is how long will it stay there before cramp sets in. [smiley=cheesy.gif]
.... I put my foot there when I get in the Mig and leave it there.
Tendency with left foot braking is that some people brake and accelerate at the same time which is not fair on the autobox when it's trying to drive and the car is trying to stop.S'pose so ... :-/ although I think I'd be able to tell if I was pressing down with both feet at the same time. Infact that was the same tale i was told by the instructor when I was invited on my speed awareness course ::) They must have a book of BS tales ie you shouldn't cross your arms turning the wheel when you have an airbag. The air bag could break your arms if they were infront of it and for whatever reason it went off! :-? :-? :-? ;D
and my auntie wonders why her ford escort had 4 brand new autobox's in it. Sussed the problem the 1st time I saw her drive it, she was pulling away with the brake lights on. :-/My brake lights will be on as I pull away too, an Omega's auto box creeps against the brakes.
Quote.... I put my foot there when I get in the Mig and leave it there.
Out of curiosity ...... how do you do a hill start? The way you were taught umpteen years back with the handbrake or use your left foot on the foot brake? :-/ :-/
I do the latter :y :y
QuoteTendency with left foot braking is that some people brake and accelerate at the same time which is not fair on the autobox when it's trying to drive and the car is trying to stop.S'pose so ... :-/ although I think I'd be able to tell if I was pressing down with both feet at the same time. Infact that was the same tale i was told by the instructor when I was invited on my speed awareness course ::) They must have a book of BS tales ie you shouldn't cross your arms turning the wheel when you have an airbag. The air bag could break your arms if they were infront of it and for whatever reason it went off! :-? :-? :-? ;DQuoteand my auntie wonders why her ford escort had 4 brand new autobox's in it. Sussed the problem the 1st time I saw her drive it, she was pulling away with the brake lights on. :-/My brake lights will be on as I pull away too, an Omega's auto box creeps against the brakes.
.... and yes thats whats the hand brake is for, as you cant accelerate and hold the foot brake on a manual, so why be different for an auto.....But auto's & manuals are different, there are diffences in the way you drive them. I don't use the handbrake for a hill start in my manual either, there's enough pull from tickover without touching the throttle. There are various cars out there that use another pedal to kick the parking/emergency brake off. You'd need a third foot! ;) ;)
... Also if you left foot braked on a driving test it's a fail.It's a good job I passed my test 30 yrs back then! We do lots of things day to day that woudl fail a driving test. ;) :y
.....
Also considered a nono to cross arms under any driving conditions and also a test failure if you do.
Quote.....
Also considered a nono to cross arms under any driving conditions and also a test failure if you do.
As said to the other reply, we're not talking driving tests. ;)
Quote.....
Also considered a nono to cross arms under any driving conditions and also a test failure if you do.
As said to the other reply, we're not talking driving tests. ;)
QuoteQuote.....
Also considered a nono to cross arms under any driving conditions and also a test failure if you do.
As said to the other reply, we're not talking driving tests. ;)
Good cause in autos i always tend to drive with one hand for some reason, and parm the wheel for turning. Parming is also much faster than the shuffle shuffle approach.
QuoteQuoteQuote.....
Also considered a nono to cross arms under any driving conditions and also a test failure if you do.
As said to the other reply, we're not talking driving tests. ;)
Good cause in autos i always tend to drive with one hand for some reason, and parm the wheel for turning. Parming is also much faster than the shuffle shuffle approach.
Half the time I drive my left arm is resting on the passenger seat back rest. ::)
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote.....
Also considered a nono to cross arms under any driving conditions and also a test failure if you do.
As said to the other reply, we're not talking driving tests. ;)
Good cause in autos i always tend to drive with one hand for some reason, and parm the wheel for turning. Parming is also much faster than the shuffle shuffle approach.
Half the time I drive my left arm is resting on the passenger seat back rest. ::)
depends who's in the passenger seat at the time.... ;D
QuoteQuoteQuote.....
Also considered a nono to cross arms under any driving conditions and also a test failure if you do.
As said to the other reply, we're not talking driving tests. ;)
Good cause in autos i always tend to drive with one hand for some reason, and parm the wheel for turning. Parming is also much faster than the shuffle shuffle approach.
Half the time I drive my left arm is resting on the passenger seat back rest. ::)
.....
Didn't do it for long :P
Quote.....
Didn't do it for long :P
Cos you hit him? ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D
cant see any problem at all with left foot braking. Provided your capable of noticing your binding the engine under power, what possible odds does it make which you prefer?
Its already been mentioned pulling away up a hill with a heavy caravan on the back would do more damage, so probably not much damage from a momentary bind? The Omega is a heavy car after all.
Its no differant than a hill start with the hand brake thinking about it, and you can probably time releasing the foot brake better i would think. Cant remember ever using the hand brake for a hill start in an Omega tbh.
So did we get to the bottom of which is best manual or auto? :-X :-XYeah, lets shake the nest. Auto. The end! ;D
So did we get to the bottom of which is best manual or auto? :-X :-X
....
Now waits for Andy to get the last word in ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D
This thread is turning into a 'which is best? auto or manual?' Neither is better than the other. One or the other suits one person more than the other type. ;) ;) ;)
So did we get to the bottom of which is best manual or auto? :-X :-X
cant see any problem at all with left foot braking. Provided your capable of noticing your binding the engine under power, what possible odds does it make which you prefer?Completely agree.Nothing wrong with left foot braking in an auto if you use common sense. :y
Its already been mentioned pulling away up a hill with a heavy caravan on the back would do more damage, so probably not much damage from a momentary bind? The Omega is a heavy car after all.
Its no differant than a hill start with the hand brake thinking about it, and you can probably time releasing the foot brake better i would think. Cant remember ever using the hand brake for a hill start in an Omega tbh.
My final thought.
I dont see my Elite as a sports car, I see it as a big lazy mile muncher, that can and often has been more than capable of prooving it's pressence on the road whether it be a standing start, a cross country jaunt or just proving it's point in the power and handling stakes against other cars.
If I wanted a manual for a sportier type of driving I would have no hesitation in going for a manual MV6.
Either way there is an Omega to suit most motoring needs. Whatever the choice in Manual/Auto box the Omega is certainly a well respected all rounder.
It's just that my Personal choice is an Auto. :y
Shame the Omega does not get the excellent DSG 'box like most VW group cars-especially the Skoda Superb ......
Shame the Omega does not get the excellent DSG 'box like most VW group cars...
Quotecant see any problem at all with left foot braking. Provided your capable of noticing your binding the engine under power, what possible odds does it make which you prefer?Completely agree.Nothing wrong with left foot braking in an auto if you use common sense. :y
Its already been mentioned pulling away up a hill with a heavy caravan on the back would do more damage, so probably not much damage from a momentary bind? The Omega is a heavy car after all.
Its no differant than a hill start with the hand brake thinking about it, and you can probably time releasing the foot brake better i would think. Cant remember ever using the hand brake for a hill start in an Omega tbh.
QuoteShame the Omega does not get the excellent DSG 'box like most VW group cars...
Faster than a manual? I don't know. Give me a decent manual 6 speeder with the right choice of gear ratios... It might make the changes quick, but that doesn't mean it is quick.
Does the DSG box have any motorsport pedigree? Not sure, just asking, cos that often speaks volumes about where a component is on the performance versus reliability / durability scale.
Kevin
Golf GTi 0-62 mph: 7.2 seconds (6.9 – DSG) so 0.3 sec FASTER!
QuoteGolf GTi 0-62 mph: 7.2 seconds (6.9 – DSG) so 0.3 sec FASTER!
Well, 0.3 seconds off the 0-60, assuming both measurements were with all else being equal (a couple of degrees cooler air could make that difference) is undeniably faster but is it worth all the extra complexity?
.. and, putting aside real life experience, DSG boxes change so aggressively when driven hard that there simply MUST be a reliability/durability price to pay for that little bit of performance due to the shock loads on the drivetrain.
.. Just as there is in running a sequential manual box. You wouldn't do it unless you have deep pockets and a passion for rebuilds.
I might be tempted by one if it was a company hack, but it'd be a brave DIY'er who touched one, IMHO.
Maybe in 5 years time they'll have proven to be bomb-proof and I'll eat my words... Maybe. ;)
Kevin
agree with you both,dsg is a very good box ime. :y Mrs G had one in a company Golf 2.0d. Could not get my head round the description until the test drive. There is no, NO drop in power between changes. When second runs out of puff, 3rd gear is engaged with the second clutch, before second gear is fully disengaged. It times the cog swap perfectly to be seemless. i can see how the dsg might be quicker than a normal auto purely because there is so no lag. The omega is fairly seemless between cogs, but the dsg takes this a step further by making gear changes pull, rather than a dip in power....if that makes sense?QuoteQuoteGolf GTi 0-62 mph: 7.2 seconds (6.9 – DSG) so 0.3 sec FASTER!
Well, 0.3 seconds off the 0-60, assuming both measurements were with all else being equal (a couple of degrees cooler air could make that difference) is undeniably faster but is it worth all the extra complexity?
.. and, putting aside real life experience, DSG boxes change so aggressively when driven hard that there simply MUST be a reliability/durability price to pay for that little bit of performance due to the shock loads on the drivetrain.
.. Just as there is in running a sequential manual box. You wouldn't do it unless you have deep pockets and a passion for rebuilds.
I might be tempted by one if it was a company hack, but it'd be a brave DIY'er who touched one, IMHO.
Maybe in 5 years time they'll have proven to be bomb-proof and I'll eat my words... Maybe. ;)
Kevin
A fair point. DSG lovely to drive.... but best under warranty!! :y
Quoteagree with you both,dsg is a very good box ime. :y Mrs G had one in a company Golf 2.0d. Could not get my head round the description until the test drive. There is no, NO drop in power between changes. When second runs out of puff, 3rd gear is engaged with the second clutch, before second gear is fully disengaged. It times the cog swap perfectly to be seemless. i can see how the dsg might be quicker than a normal auto purely because there is so no lag. The omega is fairly seemless between cogs, but the dsg takes this a step further by making gear changes pull, rather than a dip in power....if that makes sense?QuoteQuoteGolf GTi 0-62 mph: 7.2 seconds (6.9 – DSG) so 0.3 sec FASTER!
Well, 0.3 seconds off the 0-60, assuming both measurements were with all else being equal (a couple of degrees cooler air could make that difference) is undeniably faster but is it worth all the extra complexity?
.. and, putting aside real life experience, DSG boxes change so aggressively when driven hard that there simply MUST be a reliability/durability price to pay for that little bit of performance due to the shock loads on the drivetrain.
.. Just as there is in running a sequential manual box. You wouldn't do it unless you have deep pockets and a passion for rebuilds.
I might be tempted by one if it was a company hack, but it'd be a brave DIY'er who touched one, IMHO.
Maybe in 5 years time they'll have proven to be bomb-proof and I'll eat my words... Maybe. ;)
Kevin
A fair point. DSG lovely to drive.... but best under warranty!! :y
Fantastic to drive, but would not own one in a million years. Hand grenades by all acounts, :o bugger that :-/. Would be madness to put one in a bigger car.....
.....
DSG is LIGHT YEARS ahead of the Omega box-those who doubt this should drive one-amazing :y ......
Sumat wrong there mate, sell it, sharpish? :-/Quote.....
DSG is LIGHT YEARS ahead of the Omega box-those who doubt this should drive one-amazing :y ......
Sorry! But I can't agree with you, I thought it was clunky and every gear change was certainly noticable, as it would be cos it's a manual box underneath afterall. It was more seemless than the change on Mrs Andy B's 'new' Smart. To a passerby it sounds just like a manual box.
I'd have my proper auto Omega anyday before the DSG ;)
Quote.....
DSG is LIGHT YEARS ahead of the Omega box-those who doubt this should drive one-amazing :y ......
Sorry! But I can't agree with you, I thought it was clunky and every gear change was certainly noticable, as it would be cos it's a manual box underneath afterall. It was more seemless than the change on Mrs Andy B's 'new' Smart. To a passerby it sounds just like a manual box.
I'd have my proper auto Omega anyday before the DSG ;)
.....It wasn't our problem, but it was a 57 plate car with 30 000 miles on.
Perhaps was faulty? Driven a few and have been seemless
..... and offer great control :ybecause you could use the up-a-gear dow-a-gear on the gear lever? :-/ You need a car with pedal and be in complete control!! ::)
....
Sumat wrong there mate, sell it, sharpish? :-/
Or wait for it to blow up, your choice, your car.... :-/ :)Quote....
Sumat wrong there mate, sell it, sharpish? :-/
There must be sumat wrong with them all then. It has to have some time to change gear. You can't compare it with te DSG cos they have 2 clutches as far as I can make out (or care ::)) One does 1 3 & 5 and t'other does 2 4 & 6 so it's going to take atleast half as long to change gear as the Smart cos it's got twice the clutches.
smart sequential gearboxes are horrid, they have a habbit of surging, in a change. Almost makes you sea sick.
Press + or - to change gear, you can go away, make a cup of tea, 2 sugars, it might have changed by the time you get back ;D
Lol, the funniest thing about this latter part of the thread is stupid comparison between a 20 year old gearbox design and a 5 year gearbox design.
HELLO.....things do get developed!
......but, it is still capable of automatic shifting .....just about
...... and hence is an auto boxYou'd soon tire of it
Quote......but, it is still capable of automatic shifting .....just aboutQuote...... and hence is an auto boxYou'd soon tire of it
.....
Dont even ask how much a new dual pack wet clutch is.....and the cost of fitting :o :o
if DSG could be made as reliable as a manual, i would have one over a 430L family box all rather day long. If it does not impress there "Must" be something wrong. Clonkey? Nothing wrong with it? You want a broke one in that case, as all others must be, clearly.
QuoteLol, the funniest thing about this latter part of the thread is stupid comparison between a 20 year old gearbox design and a 5 year gearbox design.
HELLO.....things do get developed!
But there's no comparison at all between the 2 of them, 20 yrs or not. One is an auto with torque converter and the other is a manual gearbox with auto controls. They are like comparing apples with bananas. They both achieve a similar end result but using completely different ideas. I personally didn't like the DSG - I said at the time, I could live with it if I had to, but I'd have a proper torque converter auto any day of the week, no matter whether it was a 20odd 3 speed box with a 4th electrically opperated overdrive or one of the fance 6 & 7 speed autos from Mercedes.
Ar25/35. Are they not related to the BMW 430L auto boxs(or what ever they are called)? Anyway, would have a DSG if reliable over an Omega box any day. To imply DSG are "Clonkey" then obviously there is something wrong with that partitlar example. Driven 3 DSG'S now, all very smooth. Def no clonks.Quoteif DSG could be made as reliable as a manual, i would have one over a 430L family box all rather day long. If it does not impress there "Must" be something wrong. Clonkey? Nothing wrong with it? You want a broke one in that case, as all others must be, clearly.
Lol, I didn't understand a word of that......been on the beer?
QuoteAr25/35. Are they not related to the BMW 430L auto boxs(or what ever they are called)? Anyway, would have a DSG if reliable over an Omega box any day. To imply DSG are "Clonkey" then obviously there is something wrong with that partitlar example. Driven 3 DSG'S now, all very smooth. Def no clonks.Quoteif DSG could be made as reliable as a manual, i would have one over a 430L family box all rather day long. If it does not impress there "Must" be something wrong. Clonkey? Nothing wrong with it? You want a broke one in that case, as all others must be, clearly.
Lol, I didn't understand a word of that......been on the beer?
To answer your question, no, no beer.....
..... sits back and waits to be blindly told the opposite by another member, and gets ready to congratulate him as a winner, and to go forward to the first heat of his chosen sport (master mind?) for the special olympicis. :-) night all.
QuoteQuoteAr25/35. Are they not related to the BMW 430L auto boxs(or what ever they are called)? Anyway, would have a DSG if reliable over an Omega box any day. To imply DSG are "Clonkey" then obviously there is something wrong with that partitlar example. Driven 3 DSG'S now, all very smooth. Def no clonks.Quoteif DSG could be made as reliable as a manual, i would have one over a 430L family box all rather day long. If it does not impress there "Must" be something wrong. Clonkey? Nothing wrong with it? You want a broke one in that case, as all others must be, clearly.
Lol, I didn't understand a word of that......been on the beer?
To answer your question, no, no beer.....
..... sits back and waits to be blindly told the opposite by another member, and gets ready to congratulate him as a winner, and to go forward to the first heat of his chosen sport (master mind?) for the special olympicis. :-) night all.
Of course they are smooth when working, this is due to what they do with the engine. They vary the engine revs (up for a down change) and back off the torque (for an upchange).
There achilles heal is that they learn the driver (more important with a clutch based setup) so you can get rough changing when two opposing driving styles use the car after each other whilst the new driving style is learnt.
The 4L30E is NOT a BMW box, its a GM unit and the basic design goes back to the 70's (as a 3 speed) which then had an additonal section bolted in (hence the seperate small sump at the front) and a box of electronics added to bring it upto date. This does use a basic retard function to smooth gear changes.
More modern auto boxes are as smooth (if not smoother) than a DSG as they use the same engine control (which is the bit that makes the change smooth) during a shift.
Note, the VAG DSG is a Getrag unit.....not a VAG design :y
QuoteQuoteAr25/35. Are they not related to the BMW 430L auto boxs(or what ever they are called)? Anyway, would have a DSG if reliable over an Omega box any day. To imply DSG are "Clonkey" then obviously there is something wrong with that partitlar example. Driven 3 DSG'S now, all very smooth. Def no clonks.Quoteif DSG could be made as reliable as a manual, i would have one over a 430L family box all rather day long. If it does not impress there "Must" be something wrong. Clonkey? Nothing wrong with it? You want a broke one in that case, as all others must be, clearly.
Lol, I didn't understand a word of that......been on the beer?
To answer your question, no, no beer.....
..... sits back and waits to be blindly told the opposite by another member, and gets ready to congratulate him as a winner, and to go forward to the first heat of his chosen sport (master mind?) for the special olympicis. :-) night all.
Of course they are smooth when working, this is due to what they do with the engine. They vary the engine revs (up for a down change) and back off the torque (for an upchange).
There achilles heal is that they learn the driver (more important with a clutch based setup) so you can get rough changing when two opposing driving styles use the car after each other whilst the new driving style is learnt.
The 4L30E is NOT a BMW box, its a GM unit and the basic design goes back to the 70's (as a 3 speed) which then had an additonal section bolted in (hence the seperate small sump at the front) and a box of electronics added to bring it upto date. This does use a basic retard function to smooth gear changes.
More modern auto boxes are as smooth (if not smoother) than a DSG as they use the same engine control (which is the bit that makes the change smooth) during a shift.
Note, the VAG DSG is a Getrag unit.....not a VAG design :y
I believe BMW used to use Getrag manual boxes yeard ago,as did Vauxhall occasionally,could that be the link your thinking off Chris.
Btw,the manual getrag box was a great box and pretty strong imo.
Theres a pic / info for the 4L30E here: http://www.unofficialbmw.com/images/BMW_Automatic_4L30E.pdf
I think I've seen it a few months back IIRC.QuoteTheres a pic / info for the 4L30E here: http://www.unofficialbmw.com/images/BMW_Automatic_4L30E.pdf
More info on here ....somewhere!
QuoteQuoteQuoteAr25/35. Are they not related to the BMW 430L auto boxs(or what ever they are called)? Anyway, would have a DSG if reliable over an Omega box any day. To imply DSG are "Clonkey" then obviously there is something wrong with that partitlar example. Driven 3 DSG'S now, all very smooth. Def no clonks.Quoteif DSG could be made as reliable as a manual, i would have one over a 430L family box all rather day long. If it does not impress there "Must" be something wrong. Clonkey? Nothing wrong with it? You want a broke one in that case, as all others must be, clearly.
Lol, I didn't understand a word of that......been on the beer?
To answer your question, no, no beer.....
..... sits back and waits to be blindly told the opposite by another member, and gets ready to congratulate him as a winner, and to go forward to the first heat of his chosen sport (master mind?) for the special olympicis. :-) night all.
Of course they are smooth when working, this is due to what they do with the engine. They vary the engine revs (up for a down change) and back off the torque (for an upchange).
There achilles heal is that they learn the driver (more important with a clutch based setup) so you can get rough changing when two opposing driving styles use the car after each other whilst the new driving style is learnt.
The 4L30E is NOT a BMW box, its a GM unit and the basic design goes back to the 70's (as a 3 speed) which then had an additonal section bolted in (hence the seperate small sump at the front) and a box of electronics added to bring it upto date. This does use a basic retard function to smooth gear changes.
More modern auto boxes are as smooth (if not smoother) than a DSG as they use the same engine control (which is the bit that makes the change smooth) during a shift.
Note, the VAG DSG is a Getrag unit.....not a VAG design :y
I've always wondered that! I know know! :y
Anyway - Autos are still better ;D ;)