Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: The Barge Captain on 31 May 2007, 16:41:45
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I got a fixed penalty notice the other day for failure to diplay a valid tax disc. Now in that repect it was a fair cop as it wasn't on display, however i do have a valid tax disc, all stamped in date etc.
My question is , do i just have to swallow the fine, or is there any way of getting off? Would it be worth me going to court or should i just write to the issuing authority?
All advise welcome.
Cheers guys.
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Depends
The law states that you MUST display a valid tax disc if the car is on a public highway. If you drove or parked on a road without one, then you have broken the law and have to pay. IF it was stolen whilst parked, you can get off or IF you were in the process of having a windscreen changed at that exact minute, then that would be a fair defence. BUT if you just had it in the ghlovebox, sorry cough up.
Out of interest, where was it?
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Two seperate and distinct offences. 1) Failing to have and 2) Failing to display. Obviously you cannot display what you do not have (1) but if its fallen off and lying face down on the floor, then the TW only sees the holder and cannot see the excise licence, and so gives you a £30 badge (2). Likewise, if its slipped down the screen a bit and the regno is hidden but the expiry date is still visible, again you get a £30 badge as they cannot say if its your disc or someone elses - potential fraudulent display.
Otherwise, its as Ron McB states - lost, stolen, whatever and a conscience call to you. :-X
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Two seperate and distinct offences. 1) Failing to have and 2) Failing to display. Obviously you cannot display what you do not have (1) but if its fallen off and lying face down on the floor, then the TW only sees the holder and cannot see the excise licence, and so gives you a £30 badge. Likewise, if its slipped down the screen a bit and the regno is hidden but the expiry date is still visible, again you get a £30 badge as they cannot say if its your disc or someone elses - potential fraudulent display.
Otherwise, its as Ron McB states - lost, stolen, whatever and a conscience call to you. :-X
Would it be worth him making a phone call and maybe he might get to talk to someone who is having a good day, I know it was not displayed but from producing the tax disc would they let it go as they would see it is taxed.
From your expierience have you known this happen
:'(
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A 'phone call costs next to nothing, so always worth a go. You may just get a helpfull ear.
Wouldn't hold my breath though......... :-X
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i wouldnt hold my breath on that either
depends who has the power to waive a fine but from what i hear, at the time of the "offence", if there was justifiable reason to issue the ticket, then wouldnt it have to go through proper appeal procedures?
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You need to remember that if its fallen off and not clearly visible then, irrespective of whether its a valid disc or not and for that car or not, an offence is committed by simply not being on display and the TW or whoever correctly issues a ticket.
Pretty much end of, as it were.
Seen the odd one cancelled where the dog in the car ate it or the toddler stuck it down the air vent and similar, but these are VERY rare round my way.... Most are simply nicked...
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Give it a go, you never know
I got off with my first speeding offence 2 years ago, if I had not made a call to the speeding camera people I would not have known I was able to get let off the points but pay the £60.00 and attend a driving discussion on road safety in Bristol.
:y
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You need to remember that if its fallen off and not clearly visible then, irrespective of whether its a valid disc or not and for that car or not, an offence is committed by simply not being on display and the TW or whoever correctly issues a ticket.
Pretty much end of, as it were.
Seen the odd one cancelled where the dog in the car ate it or the toddler stuck it down the air vent and similar, but these are VERY rare round my way.... Most are simply nicked...
You could always tell them SPONGEBOBS cupcake ate it
;D ;D
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Bear in mind how most LA's work now. £30 fine. If you appeal they put everything on hold pending the outcome. If you win, fine is cancelled. If you lose (which you will) they then reinstate the fine.
BUT.....
this always happens outside the initial 28 days, so you now have to pay a £60 fine.
A bit of double or quits.
I had an incident 3 years ago in Nottingham when I was really bad. My blue badge was on the dash, but as I shut the door the draft must have moved it enough to slowly slide down and off the dash. Came back to fin a ticket. I also found the same PA. I asked him and he said he could see it on the floor, but it had to be on the dash.
idiot. I appealed and won. BUT this is a gamble and you need to have a really vaild excuse. The fact it is taxed is great, but if it ain't on show the b@stards will get you.
One of teh reasons why I actually refuse to teach traffic wardens and parking attendents.
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They occasionally fall off so phone them up and tell them.
Mine fell off - just got a producer
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Bear in mind how most LA's work now. £30 fine. If you appeal they put everything on hold pending the outcome. If you win, fine is cancelled. If you lose (which you will) they then reinstate the fine.
BUT.....
this always happens outside the initial 28 days, so you now have to pay a £60 fine.
A bit of double or quits.
I had an incident 3 years ago in Nottingham when I was really bad. My blue badge was on the dash, but as I shut the door the draft must have moved it enough to slowly slide down and off the dash. Came back to fin a ticket. I also found the same PA. I asked him and he said he could see it on the floor, but it had to be on the dash.
idiot. I appealed and won. BUT this is a gamble and you need to have a really vaild excuse. The fact it is taxed is great, but if it ain't on show the b@stards will get you.
One of teh reasons why I actually refuse to teach traffic wardens and parking attendents.
I had exactly the same situation with a regular parking machine ticket. Stuck it on the dash, closed the door and the air pressure blew it on the floor. Got done. Nothing I could do about, except whinge. >:(
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Depends
The law states that you MUST display a valid tax disc if the car is on a public highway. If you drove or parked on a road without one, then you have broken the law and have to pay. IF it was stolen whilst parked, you can get off or IF you were in the process of having a windscreen changed at that exact minute, then that would be a fair defence. BUT if you just had it in the ghlovebox, sorry cough up.
Out of interest, where was it?
Bristol city centre
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What a total joke!!
I've stopped cars with no tax displayed. Very rarely, the car is taxed but disc is lost. Whoever issued this ticket would have had the facility to check whether the rent's been paid. I accept that fail to display is an offence but why would anyone pay tax and then not display?
Seems to me that the 'little man syndrome' affected the ticket issuer.
I'd definately telephone and try to get it overturned but you'd be lucky to succeed. But good luck mate anyway.
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IMHO "failure to display" should not be penalised with a fine if the car checks out to have tax, after all, a taxed car with a missing tax disc either suggests the disc has been stolen, or the failure to display is a genuine mistake
if someone accidentally forgets to take their tax disc out the house and to the car, if they've paid tax then they clearly dont need a fine to tell them to put it in the car!!
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This all hinges on whether the car is parked up without the owner present and the TW or PA simply does their job and sticks a ticket on it.
Edwardmickey - like you, I have stopped them with a clean screen when the disc has slipped down and dealt with by way of a warning. PNC will only throw it up as VEL Exp once its 3 months out, not any less....
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I would definitely try contacting them and explain. I got pulled up by a motorway patrol car because they said they couldn't see the tax disc displayed - it had actually fallen out of the holder and was on the floor. Luckily they were a decent couple of policemen and they had a laugh and let me go once they had checked it and it was re-inserted in the holder. :y
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Surely if he has a valid tax disc, they have it on DVLA's records and he can send a copy of the disc in with an appeal letter to prove it?
Seems a bit daft fining people who actually have a valid tax disc.
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Surely if he has a valid tax disc, they have it on DVLA's records and he can send a copy of the disc in with an appeal letter to prove it?
Seems a bit daft fining people who actually have a valid tax disc.
There you are, if you were gun totting the courts would most likely give you a caution.
Dont make sense sometimes.
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Seems a bit daft fining people who actually have a valid tax disc.
Resources wasted - that could be spent on the scum who have no tax disc, MOT, insurance, etc.
The letter of the law may state that it must be displayed but what actually matters, especially now that checks can easily be made by computer, is that tax has been paid in respect of the vehicle and, more importantly, that it's MOT'd and insured.
Kevin
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Couple of things here:
Within my force area (Northumbria) we have fixed penalty mitigation forms that you can submit arguing your point - what authority issued the fixed penalty? As said, it's worth a shot.
I don't whether this is nationwide or not but in my area the Police are no longer responsible for prosecuting fail to display/no vel - the information is passed to the dvla. (just for info only)
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please view replies 2 and 15. two seperate offences, pnc does not show tax expired until 3 months after.
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......
pnc does not show tax expired until 3 months after.
Why's that?
At least this thread reminded me that the road tax on my bike was up today. Sorted it out on line last night - just waiting for the Post Office to bring it to me now.
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Two seperate and distinct offences. 1) Failing to have and 2) Failing to display. Obviously you cannot display what you do not have (1) but if its fallen off and lying face down on the floor, then the TW only sees the holder and cannot see the excise licence, and so gives you a £30 badge (2). Likewise, if its slipped down the screen a bit and the regno is hidden but the expiry date is still visible, again you get a £30 badge as they cannot say if its your disc or someone elses - potential fraudulent display.
Otherwise, its as Ron McB states - lost, stolen, whatever and a conscience call to you. :-X
Its a £60 fine in avon and somerset force now... as is no MOT!
If i can remeber to go to the post office or click my mouse to get a new tax disc then so can everybody else!... If its fallen down then get a proper holder.. not the metal ones from NEXT that dont stick to the windows and people rest them onthe dash!... i hate that! nothing worse than me tearing after a car because it has no tax displayed to find it onthe dash because the lazy *** cant spend 50 pence on a proper holder from the local shop or post ofice! its all about PRIDE!
If they have made a real effort to fix it in a proper holder and its accidentely fell off = no ticket
If its a crappy holder or masking tape..or trying to defeat the laws of gravity or just plain forgot to get one then = TICKET....
While i am here... why have you got no tax? is that because no insurance? no licence? disqualified? etc....
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please view replies 2 and 15. two seperate offences, pnc does not show tax expired until 3 months after.
Thats about to change.... have a look at a pnc screen now it has a field for VEL held?... all say NOT HELD at the moment but it will soon say the expiry date!
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Two seperate and distinct offences. 1) Failing to have and 2) Failing to display. Obviously you cannot display what you do not have (1) but if its fallen off and lying face down on the floor, then the TW only sees the holder and cannot see the excise licence, and so gives you a £30 badge (2). Likewise, if its slipped down the screen a bit and the regno is hidden but the expiry date is still visible, again you get a £30 badge as they cannot say if its your disc or someone elses - potential fraudulent display.
Otherwise, its as Ron McB states - lost, stolen, whatever and a conscience call to you. :-X
Its a £60 fine in avon and somerset force now... as is no MOT!
If i can remeber to go to the post office or click my mouse to get a new tax disc then so can everybody else!... If its fallen down then get a proper holder.. not the metal ones from NEXT that dont stick to the windows and people rest them onthe dash!... i hate that! nothing worse than me tearing after a car because it has no tax displayed to find it onthe dash because the lazy *** cant spend 50 pence on a proper holder from the local shop or post ofice! its all about PRIDE!
If they have made a real effort to fix it in a proper holder and its accidentely fell off = no ticket
If its a crappy holder or masking tape..or trying to defeat the laws of gravity or just plain forgot to get one then = TICKET....
While i am here... why have you got no tax? is that because no insurance? no licence? disqualified? etc....
Yep -got tax, mot insurance and a full valid licence. Just forgot to swop the disks over at the start of the month. A daft mistake, but suerly not £60's worth?
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my point exactly, surely a "oi! put your new tax disc in" is enough!!
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my point exactly, surely a "oi! put your new tax disc in" is enough!!
.... but that does earn £60 or any Tufty points
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Mine ran out whilst I was away on hols (though I got a new one before I went). With the new one not being valid until 2 days before end of June, I sellotaped the new one in the screen, so both were on display. Is this legal?
What if I was away for longer, and therefore couldn't get the tax before I went?
(It was in an NCP which I assume doesn't count as highway)...
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Mine ran out whilst I was away on hols (though I got a new one before I went). With the new one not being valid until 2 days before end of June, I sellotaped the new one in the screen, so both were on display. Is this legal?
What if I was away for longer, and therefore couldn't get the tax before I went?
(It was in an NCP which I assume doesn't count as highway)...
No an NCP is not " a road repairable at public expence"
If you had left the car on a public road with the two tax discs displayed then you would have complied with the requirments of the law. :y
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Mine ran out whilst I was away on hols (though I got a new one before I went). With the new one not being valid until 2 days before end of June, I sellotaped the new one in the screen, so both were on display. Is this legal?
What if I was away for longer, and therefore couldn't get the tax before I went?
(It was in an NCP which I assume doesn't count as highway)...
No an NCP is not " a road repairable at public expence"
If you had left the car on a public road with the two tax discs displayed then you would have complied with the requirments of the law. :y
Seeing as you can only buy tax 14 days before, what if I had been on hols for longer, not being allowed to buy tax before I went, and it running out on my return?
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I was think you need to park it off road for that time. if an extended period declare a SORN.
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Mine ran out whilst I was away on hols (though I got a new one before I went). With the new one not being valid until 2 days before end of June, I sellotaped the new one in the screen, so both were on display. Is this legal?
What if I was away for longer, and therefore couldn't get the tax before I went?
(It was in an NCP which I assume doesn't count as highway)...
No an NCP is not " a road repairable at public expence"
If you had left the car on a public road with the two tax discs displayed then you would have complied with the requirments of the law. :y
Seeing as you can only buy tax 14 days before, what if I had been on hols for longer, not being allowed to buy tax before I went, and it running out on my return?
I might be wrong but this 14 day rule might be coz the PO doesnt have the license books earlier than this.....but nothing to stop you being the month before....tho you would be wasting a month of tax.....You can back date tax for a month as well.
Quite a few years ago i got a ticket for tax disk outa date in a NCP carpark! (Mind it was about 3 months out of date ::) )
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I wrote the fines office a nice letter explaining that the disc had dropped from sight and got let off.
Hooray :y :y :y
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I wrote the fines office a nice letter explaining that the disc had dropped from sight and got let off.
Hooray :y :y :y
well done.......
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Just a note on the appeal/not guilty option. I don't think it is quite double or quits, in fact I am 99% sure that if an appeal is unsuccessful then you still only have to pay the original fine. If you fail to pay the fine or appeal within 28 days then the fine is increased to the next level.
In my opinion I would always appeal as you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. The reason most people don't appeal is that they think they will have to pay the higher penalty.
My wife recently appealed against failing to display a parking ticket and she won :) :)
She produced the ticket that had blown on the floor and all was well.