Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: cruisetopoland on 02 February 2010, 16:11:24

Title: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: cruisetopoland on 02 February 2010, 16:11:24
After much research on here and a few helpful pms, I'm thinking about getting Trigger's Broom gassed  :o

Anyone else got a gassed 2.2 auto?

What is it like-any power difference?
Real world mpg on gas?
Is it worth doing on a 2000 car with 102k miles?
Will it increase the value?
LPG 65p/litre here-how many miles until cost covered?
Need bootspace-what is range of donut?

Does anyone have a secondhand donut tank or full kit?
How do I get the certificate?  Where?
Anyone fancy the job or had a good pro-job done? Cost?

Thanks to Lazydocker for pm advice so far  :y
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: cruisetopoland on 02 February 2010, 16:14:40
Just had another pm from LD while posting this post.....reading it now  :y
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: Welung666 on 03 February 2010, 14:41:02
If it's a retro-fit I don't mind doing it G :y
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: tunnie on 03 February 2010, 14:52:23
Quote
Anyone else got a gassed 2.2 auto?

KenT has, not any different to manuals

Quote
What is it like-any power difference?

LPG is a higher RON than petrol (its about 105) but the knock sensors don't take affect, overall it should be about the same, with maybe a slight loss. Cheaper kits can stuggle at very high RPM's (5.5k+) Stag kit does very well, the bottle neck is the evaporator, make sure this is rated to at least 140/150 bhp

Quote
Real world mpg on gas?

20% - 25% less than petrol

Quote
Is it worth doing on a 2000 car with 102k miles?

Yes i plan to do it on my 2000 133k mile 2.2

Quote
Will it increase the value?

This causes dis-agreements, i say no over all, as you are limiting your market, people want the space an Omega has, most likey go up a bit, but not enough to get conversion costs back

Quote
LPG 65p/litre here-how many miles until cost covered?

Shop around, its 64p at BP near me, its 49p at Asda  :o

Quote
Need bootspace-what is range of donut?

200-230 mile range on donut, causes issues reaching rear bulb cluster  :(

Quote
Does anyone have a secondhand donut tank or full kit?

I would get brand spankers, i got the whole kit, tank, injectors, pipe work, for £500

Quote
How do I get the certificate?  Where?

Not sure on this, you need to take it to someone to test, who gives you an all is well and safe bit of paper

Quote
Anyone fancy the job or had a good pro-job done? Cost?

£500 parts + beer vouchers DIY

£1,000-£2,000 - 'proffesionally' but many garages make a real, hash of it.


Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: cruisetopoland on 03 February 2010, 19:05:33
Quote
Quote
Anyone else got a gassed 2.2 auto?

KenT has, not any different to manuals

Quote
What is it like-any power difference?

LPG is a higher RON than petrol (its about 105) but the knock sensors don't take affect, overall it should be about the same, with maybe a slight loss. Cheaper kits can stuggle at very high RPM's (5.5k+) Stag kit does very well, the bottle neck is the evaporator, make sure this is rated to at least 140/150 bhp

Quote
Real world mpg on gas?

20% - 25% less than petrol

Quote
Is it worth doing on a 2000 car with 102k miles?

Yes i plan to do it on my 2000 133k mile 2.2

Quote
Will it increase the value?

This causes dis-agreements, i say no over all, as you are limiting your market, people want the space an Omega has, most likey go up a bit, but not enough to get conversion costs back

Quote
LPG 65p/litre here-how many miles until cost covered?

Shop around, its 64p at BP near me, its 49p at Asda  :o

Quote
Need bootspace-what is range of donut?

200-230 mile range on donut, causes issues reaching rear bulb cluster  :(

Quote
Does anyone have a secondhand donut tank or full kit?

I would get brand spankers, i got the whole kit, tank, injectors, pipe work, for £500

Quote
How do I get the certificate?  Where?

Not sure on this, you need to take it to someone to test, who gives you an all is well and safe bit of paper

Quote
Anyone fancy the job or had a good pro-job done? Cost?

£500 parts + beer vouchers DIY

£1,000-£2,000 - 'proffesionally' but many garages make a real, hash of it.



Cheers for that  :y especially range and rear light  :y

Now need to work out how to get money, then find a good cheap kit, then chat to Lazydocker-he's been so helpful, but is a busy man and we are looking at plans, any offers appreciated!

£1000-odd will pay for itself in 12 months, so the sooner the better.

My fear is spending the money and the car getting bumped and only getting minimum trade value back.....losing the huge amount of work already done and also the LPG work.
After two years, the whole car+works+LPG spend will have been covered by the use it has given  :-/
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: tunnie on 03 February 2010, 19:53:27
sadly it is a risk, my worry is that mid conversion it will get struck or something  :-/

DIY is best route, limits any potential loss  :y
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: cruisetopoland on 03 February 2010, 21:31:51
Quote
sadly it is a risk, my worry is that mid conversion it will get struck or something  :-/

DIY is best route, limits any potential loss  :y

The obvious point is after doing all of this work, I must keep the Omega for a good few years, but the economy is killing me.  If I can get a good, cheap gas con done, then it will be the best car for my needs-it will be paid for, reliable and offer bearable running costs.  At 45-50mpg equivalent it will make me fully happy with it and stop looking at alternatives.

Just need to find £££, kit and arrange to get fitted somehow  :y
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: Lazydocker on 03 February 2010, 21:36:01
Fear not Geoff... We'll get it done sometime :y :y :y

Of course... If you can do weekdays instead of weekends it fits much more easily with my work commitments.
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: cruisetopoland on 03 February 2010, 21:41:46
Quote
Fear not Geoff... We'll get it done sometime :y :y :y

Of course... If you can do weekdays instead of weekends it fits much more easily with my work commitments.

Cheers LD-will look into holiday owing and give you a bell  :y :y

Cool  8-)
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: Entwood on 03 February 2010, 21:47:03
I know mines a 3.2 so totally different ... but I've not bothered with the mpg calculations as IMHO they tell you nothing.

I work on "pence per mile"

Now on petrol I get around 20 mpg average (I do a LOT of towing) and with petrol at £1:11.9 a litre that is £5.08 a gall, it is 25.4 pence a mile in fuel costs.

On gas I get around 16 mph and it is currently 58 p/litre or £2.63 a gall which is 16.4 pence/mile so I'm saving 9 pence a mile.

or look at it another way .... not quite half the cost of petrol !!! (its about 38% in my case)

as I do about 12000 miles a year .. 1000 a month that is a straight £90 a month saving.

Now I actually have the figures for nearly 2 years and as prices rise and fall, and so does consumption depending on driving style and/or towing ... the actual savings over 2 years average at 9 p/mile .. which sort of proves my figures ...  but I have saved over £1700, and I don't do that many miles now, compared to when I had it fitted.

Your figures will differ, but IMHO the best way to do the calculations is on the cost per mile basis.. :)

Now if you do your long trips .. you save even more as I believe LPG price in Poland is very cheap
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: fingers21 on 03 February 2010, 22:11:36
I have LPG on my 3.2, 80 litre tank in the boot and still loads of boot space. I have absolutely no difference in power and can't even feel it change between petrol and LPG. I get just short of 370 miles on a full tank of gas that costs me £40(ish) i couldn't afford to run my omega if it didn't have LPG, but with it, is very cost affective, no congestion charge in London either.

One thing, i used gas from one garage and only got 250 on a full tank, BP always gives me max mileage, so shop around.
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: Kevin Wood on 03 February 2010, 23:41:40
Quote
I have LPG on my 3.2, 80 litre tank in the boot and still loads of boot space. I have absolutely no difference in power and can't even feel it change between petrol and LPG. I get just short of 370 miles on a full tank of gas that costs me £40(ish) i couldn't afford to run my omega if it didn't have LPG, but with it, is very cost affective, no congestion charge in London either.

One thing, i used gas from one garage and only got 250 on a full tank, BP always gives me max mileage, so shop around.

Is that an 80L tank (65 litres to fill) or 80 litres to a fill (100L total tank capacity)? Because 370 miles sounds too good to be true.

Kevin
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: cruisetopoland on 04 February 2010, 08:03:58
Quote
I know mines a 3.2 so totally different ... but I've not bothered with the mpg calculations as IMHO they tell you nothing.

I work on "pence per mile"

Now on petrol I get around 20 mpg average (I do a LOT of towing) and with petrol at £1:11.9 a litre that is £5.08 a gall, it is 25.4 pence a mile in fuel costs.

On gas I get around 16 mph and it is currently 58 p/litre or £2.63 a gall which is 16.4 pence/mile so I'm saving 9 pence a mile.

or look at it another way .... not quite half the cost of petrol !!! (its about 38% in my case)

as I do about 12000 miles a year .. 1000 a month that is a straight £90 a month saving.

Now I actually have the figures for nearly 2 years and as prices rise and fall, and so does consumption depending on driving style and/or towing ... the actual savings over 2 years average at 9 p/mile .. which sort of proves my figures ...  but I have saved over £1700, and I don't do that many miles now, compared to when I had it fitted.

Your figures will differ, but IMHO the best way to do the calculations is on the cost per mile basis.. :)

Now if you do your long trips .. you save even more as I believe LPG price in Poland is very cheap

Very useful-cheers :y

LPG in Poland is about 40p litre-much cheaper than petrol
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: cruisetopoland on 04 February 2010, 08:04:41
Quote
I have LPG on my 3.2, 80 litre tank in the boot and still loads of boot space. I have absolutely no difference in power and can't even feel it change between petrol and LPG. I get just short of 370 miles on a full tank of gas that costs me £40(ish) i couldn't afford to run my omega if it didn't have LPG, but with it, is very cost affective, no congestion charge in London either.

One thing, i used gas from one garage and only got 250 on a full tank, BP always gives me max mileage, so shop around.

Did not know that  :o
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: Lazydocker on 04 February 2010, 08:17:44
Quote
Quote
I have LPG on my 3.2, 80 litre tank in the boot and still loads of boot space. I have absolutely no difference in power and can't even feel it change between petrol and LPG. I get just short of 370 miles on a full tank of gas that costs me £40(ish) i couldn't afford to run my omega if it didn't have LPG, but with it, is very cost affective, no congestion charge in London either.

One thing, i used gas from one garage and only got 250 on a full tank, BP always gives me max mileage, so shop around.

Did not know that  :o

I didn't think any Omegas other than the factory fit 2.0 wer on the Powershift Register, which is the only way to get exempion (or have they changed that) :-/ :-/
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: Lazydocker on 04 February 2010, 08:18:34
Quote
Quote
I have LPG on my 3.2, 80 litre tank in the boot and still loads of boot space. I have absolutely no difference in power and can't even feel it change between petrol and LPG. I get just short of 370 miles on a full tank of gas that costs me £40(ish) i couldn't afford to run my omega if it didn't have LPG, but with it, is very cost affective, no congestion charge in London either.

One thing, i used gas from one garage and only got 250 on a full tank, BP always gives me max mileage, so shop around.

Is that an 80L tank (65 litres to fill) or 80 litres to a fill (100L total tank capacity)? Because 370 miles sounds too good to be true.

Kevin

Must be... It's more than I get from my 90L tank :y
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: Ken T on 04 February 2010, 08:59:20
my toroidal tank which takes 43L to fill, is giving a consistant 200mile range, on mixed driving (town/motorway). OK, some petrol is being used as well, but not a lot. Its not set up as well as it could due to Bigas software limitations and the need for a dongle to access all functions.

I recon you could fit a bigger toroidal tank in the space, its all about what's on offer.

If you fit LPG, then get involved in an accident, remove it before they take the car away, it wouldn't take long to remove the expensive bits and just leave the pipe which you are supposed to renew anyway.

Ken
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: cruisetopoland on 18 February 2010, 16:22:20
Just had a quote for a full kit fitted, very helpful and knowledgable chap said £950 inc vat, with 3 yr warranty and certificate for the insurers, choice of tanks in stock:

http://www.professautogas.co.uk/servicesandprices.html

He said to arrive 0800, ready 1900hrs can borrow a car free to explore the local area, once I have picked the tank and chosen the gauge and filler location.

I have had lots of offers of help to do this, but mindful of needing time/holiday to fit, getting a certificate (£100 from local installer to check/cert), the cost of parts and the faff getting everything.

After research, £950 seems to be the going fitted rate on a 4pot now-I was expecting £1500++

Any thoughts?  :-/

Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: Kevin Wood on 18 February 2010, 16:29:36
Quote
Any thoughts?  :-/


Sounds too good to be true to me. :-/

Is this a sequential injection system or a mixer?

A sequential system will be around £600 just for the kit. Doesn't leave a lot of margin for a decent install IMHO.

Kevin
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: cruisetopoland on 18 February 2010, 16:35:53
Quote
Quote
Any thoughts?  :-/


Sounds too good to be true to me. :-/

Is this a sequential injection system or a mixer?

A sequential system will be around £600 just for the kit. Doesn't leave a lot of margin for a decent install IMHO.

Kevin

That is what I thought....site says sequential multipoint system  :y
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: cruisetopoland on 18 February 2010, 16:37:04
I suppose £350 for a days work for 2 people isn't bad though, and they must get bulk discount on the kit  :-/
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: Kevin Wood on 18 February 2010, 16:40:41
Quote
That is what I thought....site says sequential multipoint system  :y

Putting aside the cost, I would say doing it in one day is also optimistic. They are not leaving themselves any time to resolve any problems or to plan the install properly. Yes, you could probably slap an install into a car in a day and get it running with 2 or 3 blokes working on it but the end result would probably not be that pretty.

It's also difficult to see how you could get 2 or 3 man-days out of the margin they'll be making on the job, so they won't be highly trained specialists. :-/

Can you ask to see an example of his work? Speak to previous customers?

Kevin
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: Kevin Wood on 18 February 2010, 16:42:10
Quote
I suppose £350 for a days work for 2 people isn't bad though, and they must get bulk discount on the kit  :-/

I suppose that's true if it's a garden shed outfit, but not once normal commercial overheads of running a workshop have been taken out of it. :-/

Kevin
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: cruisetopoland on 18 February 2010, 16:50:09
I've had a good wander round the website, but I'm no LPG expert.

Does sound like a tempting option, though and they are not that far from me if there is a problem  :-/

Doing a net search points to this being the going rate as the range has been £950-1250 for a 4-pot.
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: MickAP on 18 February 2010, 16:52:26
Quote
Just had a quote for a full kit fitted, very helpful and knowledgable chap said £950 inc vat, with 3 yr warranty and certificate for the insurers, choice of tanks in stock:

http://www.professautogas.co.uk/servicesandprices.html

He said to arrive 0800, ready 1900hrs can borrow a car free to explore the local area, once I have picked the tank and chosen the gauge and filler location.

I have had lots of offers of help to do this, but mindful of needing time/holiday to fit, getting a certificate (£100 from local installer to check/cert), the cost of parts and the faff getting everything.

After research, £950 seems to be the going fitted rate on a 4pot now-I was expecting £1500++

Any thoughts?  :-/


That looks interesting, and very affordable if it's as good as it seems.
Was thinking of departing with my 2.2 purely on fuel costs. Now I've seen this LPG site I'm having second thoughts. Have to work out if it going to be benificial to me to keep and convert :y

Mick
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: Lazydocker on 18 February 2010, 17:39:29
I've responded by PM Geoff :y :y

I've had a poke around the site and the workmanship appears to be OK... Not up to the standard I'd give/expect but better than some I've seen :y :y

Good news is they use the Stag ECU, but looks like a cheaper vaporiser/injector combination, and probably all single hole tanks, although that's not an issue on a 4 pot.
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: cruisetopoland on 18 February 2010, 18:58:28
Quote
I've responded by PM Geoff :y :y

I've had a poke around the site and the workmanship appears to be OK... Not up to the standard I'd give/expect but better than some I've seen :y :y

Good news is they use the Stag ECU, but looks like a cheaper vaporiser/injector combination, and probably all single hole tanks, although that's not an issue on a 4 pot.

Thanks for pm-makes sense  :y :y

Would really like a top job, but the sooner the better, the less time/hassle/issues for me the better, warranty sounds good and they give the certification that my insurance accepts with no premium increase  :y

Well, this is a turn around after my initial postings saying I thought the downsides outweighed the benefits.  This is why I like OOF-so much combined knowledge and help  :y

I think I'll do a bit of research and get it done if all ok  :y
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: cruisetopoland on 18 February 2010, 19:02:47
Quote
Quote
Just had a quote for a full kit fitted, very helpful and knowledgable chap said £950 inc vat, with 3 yr warranty and certificate for the insurers, choice of tanks in stock:

http://www.professautogas.co.uk/servicesandprices.html

He said to arrive 0800, ready 1900hrs can borrow a car free to explore the local area, once I have picked the tank and chosen the gauge and filler location.

I have had lots of offers of help to do this, but mindful of needing time/holiday to fit, getting a certificate (£100 from local installer to check/cert), the cost of parts and the faff getting everything.

After research, £950 seems to be the going fitted rate on a 4pot now-I was expecting £1500++

Any thoughts?  :-/


That looks interesting, and very affordable if it's as good as it seems.
Was thinking of departing with my 2.2 purely on fuel costs. Now I've seen this LPG site I'm having second thoughts. Have to work out if it going to be benificial to me to keep and convert :y

Mick

I used the calculator on another fitting site to work out it will pay for itself in 9 months:

http://www.lpgconversionsltd.co.uk/calc.html

I will do more work on it and be in touch, Mick  :y
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: webby23 on 18 February 2010, 20:57:21
have you thought about gettng it professionally fitted in Lodz next time you are over there Geoff?

 ;)
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: PhilRich on 18 February 2010, 21:04:26
Quote
Just had a quote for a full kit fitted, very helpful and knowledgable chap said £950 inc vat, with 3 yr warranty and certificate for the insurers, choice of tanks in stock:

http://www.professautogas.co.uk/servicesandprices.html

He said to arrive 0800, ready 1900hrs can borrow a car free to explore the local area, once I have picked the tank and chosen the gauge and filler location.

I have had lots of offers of help to do this, but mindful of needing time/holiday to fit, getting a certificate (£100 from local installer to check/cert), the cost of parts and the faff getting everything.

After research, £950 seems to be the going fitted rate on a 4pot now-I was expecting £1500++

Any thoughts?  :-/



They appear to do a good job, BUT... they don't remove the inlet manifold to drill & tap the injectors!!!! :-?
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: Entwood on 18 February 2010, 22:41:44
Quote
Just had a quote for a full kit fitted, very helpful and knowledgable chap said £950 inc vat, with 3 yr warranty and certificate for the insurers, choice of tanks in stock:

http://www.professautogas.co.uk/servicesandprices.html

He said to arrive 0800, ready 1900hrs can borrow a car free to explore the local area, once I have picked the tank and chosen the gauge and filler location.

I have had lots of offers of help to do this, but mindful of needing time/holiday to fit, getting a certificate (£100 from local installer to check/cert), the cost of parts and the faff getting everything.

After research, £950 seems to be the going fitted rate on a 4pot now-I was expecting £1500++

Any thoughts?  :-/



11 hours to do the whole job ??? Not IMHO .. :(

When my professional install was done they wanted the car for 4 days ...  and the DIY guys will tell you it takes a decent amount of time
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: cruisetopoland on 19 February 2010, 08:22:37
Quote
have you thought about gettng it professionally fitted in Lodz next time you are over there Geoff?

 ;)

Yes it would be cheaper, but no comeback, no certificate and in the 4 months before I go, I will have saved £300++

Good thought though  :y
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: cruisetopoland on 19 February 2010, 08:43:27
Quote
Quote
Just had a quote for a full kit fitted, very helpful and knowledgable chap said £950 inc vat, with 3 yr warranty and certificate for the insurers, choice of tanks in stock:

http://www.professautogas.co.uk/servicesandprices.html

He said to arrive 0800, ready 1900hrs can borrow a car free to explore the local area, once I have picked the tank and chosen the gauge and filler location.

I have had lots of offers of help to do this, but mindful of needing time/holiday to fit, getting a certificate (£100 from local installer to check/cert), the cost of parts and the faff getting everything.

After research, £950 seems to be the going fitted rate on a 4pot now-I was expecting £1500++

Any thoughts?  :-/



They appear to do a good job, BUT... they don't remove the inlet manifold to drill & tap the injectors!!!! :-?

I'm guessing this leaves swarf somewhere it should not?

How do you know??

Should I be worried?
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: tunnie on 19 February 2010, 09:12:36
i would strongly advise against going to a 'proffesional' install place, as members found out before (Danny) they are far from proffesional.

Drilling and tapping the holes for the injectors must send a lot of crap down the manifold  :-/ Get away with it, but its not the way it should be done  :-/

Go DIY, maybe if we get enough LPG experts we could convert 2 cars? I shall be doing mine when the experts have some free time (Lazydocker / James / KevinW)

I am happy to host if you need a garage, depends what LD/James thoughts are on converting 2 cars at the same time  :-/

Should be a bit easier both being 4 potters...
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: cruisetopoland on 19 February 2010, 09:22:35
Quote
i would strongly advise against going to a 'proffesional' install place, as members found out before (Danny) they are far from proffesional.

Drilling and tapping the holes for the injectors must send a lot of crap down the manifold  :-/ Get away with it, but its not the way it should be done  :-/

Go DIY, maybe if we get enough LPG experts we could convert 2 cars? I shall be doing mine when the experts have some free time (Lazydocker / James / KevinW)

I am happy to host if you need a garage, depends what LD/James thoughts are on converting 2 cars at the same time  :-/

Should be a bit easier both being 4 potters...

This is what I would prefer to do, but I have no spare time as all holiday allowance is taken by Polish trips and my wife works weekends so I look after my son.

I have had very long conversations with LD but the problem of doing this together is time off, having to source parts when I have no clue, not having the insurance certificate and no warranty-even though it will be a better job and I would like to learn how it is done.

Not sure what to do, but the option of driving 50 miles and getting a guaranteed job done in one Saturday, where I can take my wife and son for a day out in their courtesy car, then get a warranty and certificate for £950inc vat looks appealing at the moment  :-/

I'm at my wits end presently as the Omega is destroying our finances and I need a fix.  Before the LPG is done, welung666 is going to look at the poor mpg and replace the cat again-all time!!

All I want is a family car that just works and does not bankrupt me  :y
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: Ken T on 19 February 2010, 10:32:47
The tapping in situ is not a brilliant idea. The damage a small bit of swarf could do if it got sucked in would not be nice. Thats why I sent my spare manifold to Tunnie, so he can get it drilled and tapped in advance, so fitting the manifold and solenoids can be done in a few hours, easily one evening. The rest can be similarly done in stages, each stage taking a day at most.

You don't want to overload Kevin drilling and tapping lots of manifolds, but I'm sure any decent engineering shop could drill and tap 4 holes for not a lot. There are plenty pictures where to fit injectors on a 2.2 manifold.

I found the hardest bit was sourcing a suitable vertical tank. The rest of the bits are easily obtainable, and it cost me about £400 in total, although I could have saved £40 by going to another, cheaper certification place.

The other advantage of doing it your self is you know how it was done, and so are able to solve any problems that may occur. If a garage does it you don't know what they have or haven't done.

Ken
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: Ken T on 19 February 2010, 10:37:31
Here are pics of Gas Car Co installation on a Mig
http://www.gascarco.com/gallery/album38?page=1

Ken
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: Ken T on 19 February 2010, 10:41:11
And another 2.2 converted
http://www.sbautogas.co.uk/recent_conversions/pictures/Vauxhall_omega/2001_vauxhall_omega_2200cc.htm

Ken
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: Kevin Wood on 19 February 2010, 10:49:37
Quote
The tapping in situ is not a brilliant idea....

An understatement ;)

The amount of swarf that is generated drilling and tapping these holes is significant. If the aluminium gets caught between valve and seat (highly likely, the first time you turn the engine over!) that valve will never seal properly and the engine will never perform correctly until rebuilt. The swarf that gets into the cylinder will likely lodge between piston and bore and cause scoring.

This is why engines have air filters. Any ingress of debris into them kills them!

I would run a mile from anyone who claims to be able to tap manifolds in-situ.

Quite apart from the likely engine damage, you have no way of knowing how the nozzle will protrude into the intake tract, whether it will clear gasket surfaces, etc. and how its' "aim" will relate to the incoming airflow.

Here are the steps involved in doing the job properly - possible with the manifold on the engine? I'll let you decide. (and I'm quite happy to do manifolds if members can get them, and the nozzles, to me).


(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/kjwood/LPG%20Conversion/IMGP1985.jpg)
Grind a little flat to start with
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/kjwood/LPG%20Conversion/IMGP1986.jpg)
Drill the hole, starting small and opening out to 5mm.
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/kjwood/LPG%20Conversion/IMGP1987.jpg)
Completed hole
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/kjwood/LPG%20Conversion/IMGP1988.jpg)
A bit of cutting paste on the tap
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/kjwood/LPG%20Conversion/IMGP1989.jpg)
.. and tap the hole
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/kjwood/LPG%20Conversion/IMGP1990.jpg)
Clean up around the back of the hole so the nozzle has somewhere to seat.
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/kjwood/LPG%20Conversion/IMGP1991.jpg)
Insert the nozzle with a little threadlock
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/kjwood/LPG%20Conversion/IMGP1992.jpg)
A 3mm drill bit or allen key helps with alignment to avoid cross-threading.
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/kjwood/LPG%20Conversion/IMGP1993.jpg)
One down, five to go.
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/kjwood/LPG%20Conversion/IMGP1994.jpg)
Clean up the area around the nozzle to help airflow.
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/kjwood/LPG%20Conversion/IMGP1995.jpg)
Position of nozzles as they emerge.
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/kjwood/LPG%20Conversion/IMGP1996.jpg)
Smooth off the face of the manifold, especially where the gasket seals.


(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/kjwood/LPG%20Conversion/IMGP2002.jpg)

(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/kjwood/LPG%20Conversion/IMGP2009.jpg)
.. and the swarf that I washed off it afterwards. This is why you don't let a cowboy drill them in-situ. :o


Kevin
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: cruisetopoland on 19 February 2010, 12:43:24
 :o :o :o :o :o :o

Thanks Kevin!

Anyone got any better ideas?  I could run to £950 with a certificate, but don't want to damage the car  :-/
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: cruisetopoland on 19 February 2010, 13:38:10
Just rang Professauto back to see if they do take off the manifold and as said, they don't-which is alarming considering the above photos.

I have spoken to welung666 who says a cert costs about £70 and DIY may be best afterall-once the cat is replaced next week.

Not sure what to do  :-?

Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: cruisetopoland on 19 February 2010, 14:18:02
Just rang Lazydockers supplier contact; waiting for price.

May be worth getting an LPG fitting meet together with mine, Tunnie, MickAP; with the help of welung666 and lazydocker; pms being sent now  :y
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: tunnie on 19 February 2010, 14:27:34
Quote
Just rang Professauto back to see if they do take off the manifold and as said, they don't-which is alarming considering the above photos.

I have spoken to welung666 who says a cert costs about £70 and DIY may be best afterall-once the cat is replaced next week.

Not sure what to do  :-?


AVOID AVOID AVOID AVOID!!!
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: cruisetopoland on 19 February 2010, 14:31:14
Now trying to set up an LPG fitting meet, see new thread  :y
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: tunnie on 19 February 2010, 14:34:31
Quote
Just rang Lazydockers supplier contact; waiting for price.

May be worth getting an LPG fitting meet together with mine, Tunnie, MickAP; with the help of welung666 and lazydocker; pms being sent now  :y

Replied  :y

Happy to host here, double garage, well lit, can fit 2 in at a time  :y
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: cruisetopoland on 19 February 2010, 14:54:15
Quote
Now trying to set up an LPG fitting meet, see new thread  :y

See:
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1266591169/0#0

 :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y :y
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: Lazydocker on 19 February 2010, 16:26:50
You get a 2 Year, unlimited Mileage parts warranty with the kit from Teilo... And he's proven himself good on the warranty a few times now :y :y :y
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: cruisetopoland on 19 February 2010, 16:27:58
Quote
You get a 2 Year, unlimited Mileage parts warranty with the kit from Teilo... And he's proven himself good on the warranty a few times now :y :y :y

Just waiting for a price, he is calling me later  :y
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: tunnie on 19 February 2010, 16:33:06
Quote
Quote
You get a 2 Year, unlimited Mileage parts warranty with the kit from Teilo... And he's proven himself good on the warranty a few times now :y :y :y

Just waiting for a price, he is calling me later  :y

Good luck, he never called me back, i had to call him back time and time again, he never once returned my call.

Has glowing reports from here, but sorry to say i felt his service was shite, and if it was not for reports from here, given up a lot sooner.

I bought Stag kit from eBay and Tank/Pipework from Tinley tech in the end, due to a complete lack of communication from Telio
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: Lazydocker on 19 February 2010, 16:34:58
Quote
Quote
Quote
You get a 2 Year, unlimited Mileage parts warranty with the kit from Teilo... And he's proven himself good on the warranty a few times now :y :y :y

Just waiting for a price, he is calling me later  :y

Good luck, he never called me back, i had to call him back time and time again, he never once returned my call.

Has glowing reports from here, but sorry to say i felt his service was shite, and if it was not for reports from here, given up a lot sooner.

I bought Stag kit from eBay and Tank/Pipework from Tinley tech in the end, due to a complete lack of communication from Telio

Hopefully there will be a big improvement now he's not jetting off constantly to release kits all over the world :y :y

I assume you did get Polyflex pipe from Tinley?
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: tunnie on 19 February 2010, 16:36:05
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
You get a 2 Year, unlimited Mileage parts warranty with the kit from Teilo... And he's proven himself good on the warranty a few times now :y :y :y

Just waiting for a price, he is calling me later  :y

Good luck, he never called me back, i had to call him back time and time again, he never once returned my call.

Has glowing reports from here, but sorry to say i felt his service was shite, and if it was not for reports from here, given up a lot sooner.

I bought Stag kit from eBay and Tank/Pipework from Tinley tech in the end, due to a complete lack of communication from Telio

Hopefully there will be a big improvement now he's not jetting off constantly to release kits all over the world :y :y

I assume you did get Polyflex pipe from Tinley?

Copper sealed in rubber in the end, did'nt know about Polyflex, but since i have it now might as well use that.
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: Lazydocker on 19 February 2010, 16:39:22
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
You get a 2 Year, unlimited Mileage parts warranty with the kit from Teilo... And he's proven himself good on the warranty a few times now :y :y :y

Just waiting for a price, he is calling me later  :y

Good luck, he never called me back, i had to call him back time and time again, he never once returned my call.

Has glowing reports from here, but sorry to say i felt his service was shite, and if it was not for reports from here, given up a lot sooner.

I bought Stag kit from eBay and Tank/Pipework from Tinley tech in the end, due to a complete lack of communication from Telio

Hopefully there will be a big improvement now he's not jetting off constantly to release kits all over the world :y :y

I assume you did get Polyflex pipe from Tinley?

Copper sealed in rubber in the end, did'nt know about Polyflex, but since i have it now might as well use that.

Oh break! ;D ;D ;D

It's usable but a right royal PITA to work with :o :o Have you got all the correct olives etc? May be worth sourcing a few spare Olives too, Just in case :y :y

Bagsy NOT doing the pipe run! :D :D
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: tunnie on 19 February 2010, 16:44:33
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
You get a 2 Year, unlimited Mileage parts warranty with the kit from Teilo... And he's proven himself good on the warranty a few times now :y :y :y

Just waiting for a price, he is calling me later  :y

Good luck, he never called me back, i had to call him back time and time again, he never once returned my call.

Has glowing reports from here, but sorry to say i felt his service was shite, and if it was not for reports from here, given up a lot sooner.

I bought Stag kit from eBay and Tank/Pipework from Tinley tech in the end, due to a complete lack of communication from Telio

Hopefully there will be a big improvement now he's not jetting off constantly to release kits all over the world :y :y

I assume you did get Polyflex pipe from Tinley?

Copper sealed in rubber in the end, did'nt know about Polyflex, but since i have it now might as well use that.

Oh break! ;D ;D ;D

It's usable but a right royal PITA to work with :o :o Have you got all the correct olives etc? May be worth sourcing a few spare Olives too, Just in case :y :y

Bagsy NOT doing the pipe run! :D :D

Got some with Feta cheese, can't see them tasting too good with LPG  ;D

I can get some Polyflex ...
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: Ken T on 19 February 2010, 18:06:44
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
You get a 2 Year, unlimited Mileage parts warranty with the kit from Teilo... And he's proven himself good on the warranty a few times now :y :y :y

Just waiting for a price, he is calling me later  :y

Good luck, he never called me back, i had to call him back time and time again, he never once returned my call.

Has glowing reports from here, but sorry to say i felt his service was shite, and if it was not for reports from here, given up a lot sooner.

I bought Stag kit from eBay and Tank/Pipework from Tinley tech in the end, due to a complete lack of communication from Telio

Hopefully there will be a big improvement now he's not jetting off constantly to release kits all over the world :y :y

I assume you did get Polyflex pipe from Tinley?

Copper sealed in rubber in the end, did'nt know about Polyflex, but since i have it now might as well use that.

Oh break! ;D ;D ;D

It's usable but a right royal PITA to work with :o :o Have you got all the correct olives etc? May be worth sourcing a few spare Olives too, Just in case :y :y

Bagsy NOT doing the pipe run! :D :D


Yes, if you mean the polyflex, trying to get the end fittings in was  a pain. I ended up warming it with a hot air gun, just a little bit, to get it to expand slightly.

Ken
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: Lazydocker on 19 February 2010, 21:29:59
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
You get a 2 Year, unlimited Mileage parts warranty with the kit from Teilo... And he's proven himself good on the warranty a few times now :y :y :y

Just waiting for a price, he is calling me later  :y

Good luck, he never called me back, i had to call him back time and time again, he never once returned my call.

Has glowing reports from here, but sorry to say i felt his service was shite, and if it was not for reports from here, given up a lot sooner.

I bought Stag kit from eBay and Tank/Pipework from Tinley tech in the end, due to a complete lack of communication from Telio

Hopefully there will be a big improvement now he's not jetting off constantly to release kits all over the world :y :y

I assume you did get Polyflex pipe from Tinley?

Copper sealed in rubber in the end, did'nt know about Polyflex, but since i have it now might as well use that.

Oh break! ;D ;D ;D

It's usable but a right royal PITA to work with :o :o Have you got all the correct olives etc? May be worth sourcing a few spare Olives too, Just in case :y :y

Bagsy NOT doing the pipe run! :D :D


Yes, if you mean the polyflex, trying to get the end fittings in was  a pain. I ended up warming it with a hot air gun, just a little bit, to get it to expand slightly.

Ken

Polyflex is fantastic to work with... The fittings can be a little tight but nothing compared with the difficulty getting the copper pipe into the right places on the run!
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: Ken T on 20 February 2010, 10:06:25
Yes, threading it through is easy, I wouldn't fancy doing that with 20ft of copper pipe. ;D

 You have to keep a big bend radius and watch you don't kink it though.

Ken
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: cruisetopoland on 20 February 2010, 14:56:04
Quote
Quote
Quote
You get a 2 Year, unlimited Mileage parts warranty with the kit from Teilo... And he's proven himself good on the warranty a few times now :y :y :y

Just waiting for a price, he is calling me later  :y

Good luck, he never called me back, i had to call him back time and time again, he never once returned my call.

Has glowing reports from here, but sorry to say i felt his service was shite, and if it was not for reports from here, given up a lot sooner.

I bought Stag kit from eBay and Tank/Pipework from Tinley tech in the end, due to a complete lack of communication from Telio

Still no call from Teilo...

Getting fed up with the hassle of this, but touched by the kind offers of help from Kevin M re: manifold and Lazydocker, Welung666 and others for installation help  :y

Problem is I'm short of time to do the research, ordering, co-ordination, travel, fitting, certing, 1000 mile check etc and need an economical for for 15-20,000 miles pa right now  :(

Family must come first and I am under pressure to bring car expenses under control asap.  It would be fine as is without lpg in normal family use with less miles, but with my mileage doing the non-stop work travel and the Poland trips, 28-30 mpg killing me  :o

The offer of the company car is starting to look tempting  :-/


Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: tunnie on 20 February 2010, 14:57:02
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
You get a 2 Year, unlimited Mileage parts warranty with the kit from Teilo... And he's proven himself good on the warranty a few times now :y :y :y

Just waiting for a price, he is calling me later  :y

Good luck, he never called me back, i had to call him back time and time again, he never once returned my call.

Has glowing reports from here, but sorry to say i felt his service was shite, and if it was not for reports from here, given up a lot sooner.

I bought Stag kit from eBay and Tank/Pipework from Tinley tech in the end, due to a complete lack of communication from Telio

Still no call from Teilo...


You won't get one......
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: Lazydocker on 20 February 2010, 15:01:52
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
You get a 2 Year, unlimited Mileage parts warranty with the kit from Teilo... And he's proven himself good on the warranty a few times now :y :y :y

Just waiting for a price, he is calling me later  :y

Good luck, he never called me back, i had to call him back time and time again, he never once returned my call.

Has glowing reports from here, but sorry to say i felt his service was shite, and if it was not for reports from here, given up a lot sooner.

I bought Stag kit from eBay and Tank/Pipework from Tinley tech in the end, due to a complete lack of communication from Telio

Still no call from Teilo...


You won't get one......

Not today you won't!

Chase him Monday morning... I believe he's off to a show on Tuesday evening for the rest of the week ;) ;)
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: cruisetopoland on 22 February 2010, 18:19:15
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
You get a 2 Year, unlimited Mileage parts warranty with the kit from Teilo... And he's proven himself good on the warranty a few times now :y :y :y

Just waiting for a price, he is calling me later  :y

Good luck, he never called me back, i had to call him back time and time again, he never once returned my call.

Has glowing reports from here, but sorry to say i felt his service was shite, and if it was not for reports from here, given up a lot sooner.

I bought Stag kit from eBay and Tank/Pipework from Tinley tech in the end, due to a complete lack of communication from Telio

Still no call from Teilo...


You won't get one......

Well, fair play to Teilo, he did call back today, on a number that showed as a missed call the other day but I did not recognise.

He quoted £495 all in for a complete kit with tank, ecu, injectors etc etc etc including pc interface leads.

He says he is sorting a new design at present with spacers (I think) for the injectors, which the lpg goes into without removing the manifold, but too techy for me to understand!

I am likely to get a new car for work, so not sure what will happen with gassing mine now  :-/
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: feeutfo on 22 February 2010, 21:45:01
bin the copper Tunnie, you'll be there all week. Or see if they'll swap it or take it back.

Waiting for a reply from Tilo myself.... :-X >:(
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: tunnie on 22 February 2010, 22:00:21
Quote
bin the copper Tunnie, you'll be there all week. Or see if they'll swap it or take it back.

Waiting for a reply from Tilo myself.... :-X >:(

Good idea, i'll see if they will do that  :y
Title: Re: LPG on a 2.2 auto
Post by: Lazydocker on 22 February 2010, 22:04:37
Quote
bin the copper Tunnie, you'll be there all week. Or see if they'll swap it or take it back.

Waiting for a reply from Tilo myself.... :-X >:(

Doubt you'll hear from him 'till next week now... I believe he's doing a UK expo/show from tomorrow onwards. I think he said that's the last for a while though :-/ :-/

If only he could get on top of the communications it'll be sorted. Did you actually speak to him or just leave a message with the answering service?