Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: NiallyV6CDX on 28 May 2010, 18:53:39

Title: All up in flames
Post by: NiallyV6CDX on 28 May 2010, 18:53:39
The omega did this to its self last night while parked!  :o  :(

http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx50/NiallyV6super/Stuff/Picture001-1.jpg

http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx50/NiallyV6super/Stuff/Picture003-1.jpg

http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx50/NiallyV6super/Stuff/Picture004.jpg


Looking at where it started I think in must have been something electrical, like the fusebox maybe.
A big thanks to WYFD for their prompt response :y
Anyway, not what I need right now >:(  :( Anyone need any exterior or engine parts? :-?
Title: Re: All up in flames
Post by: cmeonthemove on 28 May 2010, 18:56:56
That's a mess, what a great shame looked a nice motor otherwise. :'(
Title: Re: All up in flames
Post by: Bixy1 on 28 May 2010, 18:59:29
Oh Good Grief!!!!  Sorry to see that......... :-/
Title: Re: All up in flames
Post by: Jimbob on 28 May 2010, 19:49:59
That wa syour powersounder...ours, and sveral others have done the same.

sorry for your loss...ours was less painful

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1259433462
Title: Re: All up in flames
Post by: FoxyV6 on 28 May 2010, 19:58:10
Yikes, sorry to see that, Thats got me worried now :o :o
Title: Re: All up in flames
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 28 May 2010, 20:06:16
That is just aweful! :o :o :o :o  What a mess! :( :(

I feel for you :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: All up in flames
Post by: NiallyV6CDX on 28 May 2010, 20:09:01
I don't think it was the power sounder as it started inside and I didn't hear any noise. It wouldn't be so bad only there is £60 of petrol in the tank and I had just given it a good valet! >:( Fortunately the tax disc wasn't damaged so I can get most of that refunded.
Title: Re: All up in flames
Post by: Andy B on 28 May 2010, 20:10:14
 :'(  :'(  :'(  :'( That's bad news.  :(
SWMBO has just said I should get rid of my power sounder!
Title: Re: All up in flames
Post by: Jimbob on 28 May 2010, 20:12:42
£10 to 1p that was your powersounder, EXACTLY the right position, a known fire hazzard when car just parked up doing nothing, and they dont have to make any noise...ours was just a quiet whimper.

I can think of at least 3 reported on here recently.

you should be able to get at the tank cover in the boot to reuse your petrol  :y
Title: Re: All up in flames
Post by: FoxyV6 on 28 May 2010, 20:16:19
what causes this to happen then, frayed wiring or something else?? i had a Peugeot go up in flames (dodgy wiring), i dont want that to ever happen again, though i did get to oogle the hunky firemen so it wasnt all bad ;D ;D :y
Title: Re: All up in flames
Post by: Jimbob on 28 May 2010, 20:18:23
The batteries get old, dont charge properly, and / or start to leak causing a short, then a fire.

Some replace the sounders, some can change batteries depending on type, most of us just remove (well unplug) them
Title: Re: All up in flames
Post by: NiallyV6CDX on 28 May 2010, 20:19:21
Quote
£10 to 1p that was your powersounder, EXACTLY the right position, a known fire hazzard when car just parked up doing nothing, and they dont have to make any noise...ours was just a quiet whimper.

I can think of at least 3 reported on here recently.

you should be able to get at the tank cover in the boot to reuse your petrol  :y


yeah I will have a go at syphoning it off. Would be kind of ironic if the security feature is what caused it to go up. ::)
Title: Re: All up in flames
Post by: pedroMV6 on 28 May 2010, 20:49:15
Gutting to see that, dude - hope you can sort it somehow!

Maybe a silly question, but what is a power sounder?
Alarm related?
How does one disconnect it to avoid the misery of a fire?

Title: Re: All up in flames
Post by: Andy B on 28 May 2010, 20:54:59
Quote
....

Maybe a silly question, but what is a power sounder?
Alarm related?
another way of dscribing the siren.  ;)

Quote
How does one disconnect it to avoid the misery of a fire?

Unplug it  :y  :y
Title: Re: All up in flames
Post by: tunnie on 28 May 2010, 20:56:34
defo looks like power sounder as cause, thats why its unplugged on all 3 of ours!
Title: Re: All up in flames
Post by: Jimbob on 28 May 2010, 21:07:59
Quote
Gutting to see that, dude - hope you can sort it somehow!

Maybe a silly question, but what is a power sounder?
Alarm related?
How does one disconnect it to avoid the misery of a fire?



It is a siren, but a siren with a difference, it has built in rechargeable batteries, and is hidden from the outside world.

Theory being, you can cut the horn wiring, disconnect power etc, but on detection of an alarm condition, or power loss, then this will sound on its own.

Great in theory....till it breaks down and causes a mess like above.

Its these that the warning under the bonnet about disconnecting the battery within 15 seconds of turning off the ignition is about, thats the 'command' not to go off.
Title: Re: All up in flames
Post by: tunnie on 28 May 2010, 21:29:26
release torx bolt on drivers side scuttle, reach in and plug the pesky git  :y
Title: Re: All up in flames
Post by: pedroMV6 on 28 May 2010, 21:38:45
2 jobs for tomorrow then - cheers guys!!!

I tried to disconnect the battery on the Elite once, and an alarm went off.
Put key in ignition and switched to 1 and then tried again, all well. (Trick remembered from my sad, V*ctra B days)
That the power sounder?
Title: Re: All up in flames
Post by: tunnie on 28 May 2010, 21:40:46
Quote
2 jobs for tomorrow then - cheers guys!!!

I tried to disconnect the battery on the Elite once, and an alarm went off.
Put key in ignition and switched to 1 and then tried again, all well. (Trick remembered from my sad, V*ctra B days)
That the power sounder?

Yup, once disconnect you can change a battery in peace!
Title: Re: All up in flames
Post by: gstylebaby on 28 May 2010, 21:42:12
Sorry to see this mate.  :'( :'( :'(
Not sure i have a power sounder on mine as its an early one will have to check. :-/ :-/ :-/
Title: Re: All up in flames
Post by: pscocoa on 28 May 2010, 23:26:21
Is there not a possibility for an insurance claim?
Title: Re: All up in flames
Post by: Olympia5776 on 28 May 2010, 23:41:50
That's horrific ................ :o
So horrific it made me get up and go out to the garage / workshop and disconnect mine just now . It's sitting next to my Manta and all my tools and equipment for our Property Maintenance and Renovation business .
Doesn't bear thinking about....... :'(

I hope you get a satisfactory settlement for the car , good luck. :y
Title: Re: All up in flames
Post by: coastie123 on 29 May 2010, 00:01:35
sorry for your loss...

im going to disconnect mine in the morning (if i can find it)..

as olympia says "hope you get a satisfactory settlement for the car"

regards

shaun
Title: Re: All up in flames
Post by: feeutfo on 29 May 2010, 08:07:07
first thought, power sounder. But the damage inside the car does looks worse than that in the bonett/bulkhead area.

..... soldered new batteries into mine, hopefully they'll last another 7 years.

Very sorry to see this Nially, very best of luck with the insurance.
Title: Re: All up in flames
Post by: doog on 30 May 2010, 13:14:07
It happened to me too


 now i disconnect the power sounder the first day i buy an omega

Doug
Title: Re: All up in flames
Post by: NiallyV6CDX on 30 May 2010, 21:45:22
Well thanks for all the condolences. :-/ :) I told the insurance what happened and they said I would lose 2 of my 5 years no claims if I claim for it. that would bump my premium up to over £3000 living here. For a payout of £300 if I'm lucky, I'm better off not claiming salvaging what parts I can from it otherwise I will not be able to afford to get another car with premiums like that. Most of the engine and exterior are still good as are the wheels and exhaust. So Im hoping I could get a couple of hundred for those.
Just out of interest, is this power sounder problem shared with other vauxhalls or just the omega?
Title: Re: All up in flames
Post by: Welung666 on 30 May 2010, 22:41:52
Quote
Well thanks for all the condolences. :-/ :) I told the insurance what happened and they said I would lose 2 of my 5 years no claims if I claim for it. that would bump my premium up to over £3000 living here. For a payout of £300 if I'm lucky, I'm better off not claiming salvaging what parts I can from it otherwise I will not be able to afford to get another car with premiums like that. Most of the engine and exterior are still good as are the wheels and exhaust. So Im hoping I could get a couple of hundred for those.
Just out of interest, is this power sounder problem shared with other vauxhalls or just the omega?

Common across most of the Vx range.
Title: Re: All up in flames
Post by: Kevin Wood on 31 May 2010, 00:54:06
Quote
Quote
Well thanks for all the condolences. :-/ :) I told the insurance what happened and they said I would lose 2 of my 5 years no claims if I claim for it. that would bump my premium up to over £3000 living here. For a payout of £300 if I'm lucky, I'm better off not claiming salvaging what parts I can from it otherwise I will not be able to afford to get another car with premiums like that. Most of the engine and exterior are still good as are the wheels and exhaust. So Im hoping I could get a couple of hundred for those.
Just out of interest, is this power sounder problem shared with other vauxhalls or just the omega?

Common across most of the Vx range.

I have seen 3 different types used on Omegas. Not sure spontaneous combustion is a speciality of any particular model though.

The problem as I see it, is that the supply wiring to the power sounder is not adequately protected against a fault. The wires to the power sounder are tiny (no problem there. It takes about a quarter of an amp, and the wires are probably safe up to a few amps).

The problem is, this puny wiring is protected only by an 80 amp fusible link in the positive distribution box, and nothing on earlier cars without the box.

I suspect this is why the dash tends to go up too. Wiring is damaged through the loom until it reaches an adequately rated feed, probably by the fuse box.

Why, oh why didn't GM follow the fundamental rule of electrical safety and fuse the wire appropriately at the point where it is fed?

Kevin
Title: Re: All up in flames
Post by: omegod on 31 May 2010, 15:56:13
Another one toasted, sad to see.

Can we not have a warning sticky on this for Newbs? makes sense to me.
Title: Re: All up in flames
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 31 May 2010, 16:03:46
There 2 "devices" in that area, both are unplugged on mine - one is defo a horn type device - but whats the other one for?

Would an insurance co get upset if you disconnected it?
Title: Re: All up in flames
Post by: Welung666 on 31 May 2010, 16:46:44
Quote
The problem as I see it, is that the supply wiring to the power sounder is not adequately protected against a fault. The wires to the power sounder are tiny (no problem there. It takes about a quarter of an amp, and the wires are probably safe up to a few amps).

The problem is, this puny wiring is protected only by an 80 amp fusible link in the positive distribution box, and nothing on earlier cars without the box.

I suspect this is why the dash tends to go up too. Wiring is damaged through the loom until it reaches an adequately rated feed, probably by the fuse box.

Why, oh why didn't GM follow the fundamental rule of electrical safety and fuse the wire appropriately at the point where it is fed?

Would it be an idea to fit an inline fuse holder near the powersounder to act as an early blow device?
Title: Re: All up in flames
Post by: Kevin Wood on 31 May 2010, 19:25:08
Quote
Would it be an idea to fit an inline fuse holder near the powersounder to act as an early blow device?

That would certainly help. :y

Kevin
Title: Re: All up in flames
Post by: Debs. on 01 June 2010, 14:25:55
Quote
:'(  :'(  :'(  :'( That's bad news.  :(
SWMBO has just said I should get rid of my power sounder!

Mine`s already gone. :y

Seeing what damage (and danger) they cause I`m amazed there isn`t a thermal fuse built into the charging circuit: after all, the 12V. source can supply (briefly) limitless current. :o

Title: Re: All up in flames
Post by: Kevin Wood on 01 June 2010, 15:12:15
Quote

Mine`s already gone. :y

Seeing what damage (and danger) they cause I`m amazed there isn`t a thermal fuse built into the charging circuit: after all, the 12V. source can supply (briefly) limitless current. :o


No sign of any protection inside the power sounder at all.

There is a piezo sounder driven via a transformer inside. A theory I have based on partial failure of my sounder is that leaking battery acid causes the drive to the transformer to go leaky resulting in DC current through the transformer and it or the wiring feeding it gets hot.

Eventually I guess it gets hot enough to start a chain reaction resulting in combustion and probably melting and shorting together of the supply wires to the sounder. Brake fluid reservoir is not far away and once the brake fluid goes up there is a lot of heat.

Not sure how it gets into the interior. I guess either burning brake fluid getting into the interior or that the wiring to the power sounder originates here and it overheats over its' entire length.

I guess they didn't want to fuse the feed to the power sounder for fear that it would be easily disabled but if you aren't going to fuse a circuit then you need to size it to handle any likely fault current. :(

Kevin