Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Debs. on 03 June 2010, 17:39:56
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The concept appeals to Deb`s 'mechanical brain' (although I could never afford such a car)....I just wondered if anyone has driven one, or what might be your opinions of the technology and mechanical-execution.
Although, to be honest; I`m not interested in whether the planet will (or wont) shrivel as the result of such hybrids!.....just curious about the car and it`s mechanisms. ;)
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Zulu77 has one, although he isnt online much at the moment. :y
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If i were to go down the Hybrid route I would, at present, go for a Lexus, probably RX :y
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Driven a
milkfloat Prius. It takes a bit of getting used to, in some ways a 'weird' feeling.
Not sure I see the benefits (except car tax and personal tax - ridiculous, considering), as a similar sized diesel is more efficient, faster, economical.....
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Driven a milkfloat Prius. It takes a bit of getting used to, in some ways a 'weird' feeling.
Not sure I see the benefits (except car tax and personal tax - ridiculous, considering), as a similar sized diesel is more efficient, faster, economical.....
...not to mention kinder to the environment when being built.
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Horrible to drive, sadly I'll have to admit to driving one, terrible to look at, slow, odd feeling when you're driving not a good odd feeling either. As TB said though a some diesels are, quicker, more efficient, etc etc.
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They are a curious car.....but not for the hybrid bit.
The engine is totaly designed towards efficiency and hence does not use the traditional otto cycle in fact its closer to that of an atkins cycle
This results in a power plant that is close to undriveable and hence the hybrid bolt on to make it 'work'
So the key message is, its not the hybrid bit that increases the efficency (which is no surprise), its the engine!
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To outline the key difference, the atkins cycle trys to overcome a limitation of the otto cycle.
The key thing with the otto cycle is that the combustion and compression strokes are pretty much the same length (ignoring the reality where the combustion stroke is actualy shorter than the compression stroke).
On the Atkins cycle you actualy keep the inlet valve open for part of the compression stroke.....which gives a compression stroke that is shorter than the combustion stroke.
The advantage is that you have a lower compressed volume and a longer combustion stroke in which to extract as much energy as possible from the ignited fuel with the aim (not achieveable) being to get the cylinder pressure the same as atmospheric at the end of the stroke.
Its clear that as a result of this driveability of the power plant is hugely affected and that the static compression ratio is much higher than the dynamic one.
And hence the need to bolt hybrid technology on to make it driveable!
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To outline the key difference, the atkins cycle trys to overcome a limitation of the otto cycle.
The key thing with the otto cycle is that the combustion and compression strokes are pretty much the same length (ignoring the reality where the combustion stroke is actualy shorter than the compression stroke).
On the Atkins cycle you actualy keep the inlet valve open for part of the compression stroke.....which gives a compression stroke that is shorter than the combustion stroke.
The advantage is that you have a lower compressed volume and a longer combustion stroke in which to extract as much energy as possible from the ignited fuel with the aim (not achieveable) being to get the cylinder pressure the same as atmospheric at the end of the stroke.
Its clear that as a result of this driveability of the power plant is hugely affected and that the static compression ratio is much higher than the dynamic one.
And hence the need to bolt hybrid technology on to make it driveable!
Thanks Mark; it seems there`s very-much more to the 'valve timing versus efficiency' relationship than I`d hitherto understood.....off to Google now with your info. :y
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To outline the key difference, the atkins cycle trys to overcome a limitation of the otto cycle.
The key thing with the otto cycle is that the combustion and compression strokes are pretty much the same length (ignoring the reality where the combustion stroke is actualy shorter than the compression stroke).
On the Atkins cycle you actualy keep the inlet valve open for part of the compression stroke.....which gives a compression stroke that is shorter than the combustion stroke.
The advantage is that you have a lower compressed volume and a longer combustion stroke in which to extract as much energy as possible from the ignited fuel with the aim (not achieveable) being to get the cylinder pressure the same as atmospheric at the end of the stroke.
Its clear that as a result of this driveability of the power plant is hugely affected and that the static compression ratio is much higher than the dynamic one.
And hence the need to bolt hybrid technology on to make it driveable!
Thanks Mark; it seems there`s very-much more to the 'valve timing versus efficiency' relationship than I`d hitherto understood.....off to Google now with your info. :y
check out the engine theory in the FAQ section :y
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1243594756
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My last company had several of the HORRIBLE things.....nasty to drive, not particlarly good ride quality, poor build quality, and we only got them as we were a London company and it saved us a lot of money in Congestion charge, etc. Nobody liked them, and quite frankly, they were not really a motorway car either.
To sum it all up, good thought, poor execution.
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I have driven one, it was pretty uninspiring, its got to be said.
I took it home for the night on my normal commute and found that a thirty-minute journey took forty-five minutes, whilst at the same time using more fuel than my 3,0 Omega.
The technology in general is nothing too special, I think that they sacrificed a bunch of good stuff just to get to market as quickly as possible.
It's real appeal is for people who like to make a big splash about being green, without thinking about the real issues behind it. As has been pointed out, the energy used in building the vehicle is far worse than any other vehicle that I know of.
regarding the engine thing, I thought it wasn't that special - I've used that technique in engines I've developed for manufacturers before now. It's relatively easy to do using "leaky" hydraulic tappets, or "rapid leak-down lifters" as the yanks call them.
after all, the greenest car is the one you already have !
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Debs, looking at the posts above its better you go for a type-r..at least you wont be bored ;D
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Debs, looking at the posts above its better you go for a type-r..at least you wont be bored ;D
:y.....Cem, perhaps an electric type-r; a 6 volt motor on a 12 volt battery (briefly). ;D
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Debs, looking at the posts above its better you go for a type-r..at least you wont be bored ;D
:y.....Cem, perhaps an electric type-r; a 6 volt motor on a 12 volt battery (briefly). ;D
;D ;D :y
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Debs, looking at the posts above its better you go for a type-r..at least you wont be bored ;D
:y.....Cem, perhaps an electric type-r; a 6 volt motor on a 12 volt battery (briefly). ;D
That's captured the Type-R experience perfectly, IMHO. ;D
"This is fun, but if I carry on hitting 8.5K RPM surely it's going to let the smoke out sooner or later." ;D
Kevin
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Debs, looking at the posts above its better you go for a type-r..at least you wont be bored ;D
:y.....Cem, perhaps an electric type-r; a 6 volt motor on a 12 volt battery (briefly). ;D
That's captured the Type-R experience perfectly, IMHO. ;D
"This is fun, but if I carry on hitting 8.5K RPM surely it's going to let the smoke out sooner or later." ;D
Kevin
interestingly the older type-r model is a robust car..and have better handling than the new model..
japs designed this car to rev the nuts off to beat the turbo rivals.. so you really need work hard.. :y
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They are hard work to drive but yes, its no surprise the latest incarnation is a let down as it does not have the IRS setup of the older one.
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I still fancy an (older) Type-R, always have....
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I still fancy an (older) Type-R, always have....
Trouble is, they have all been ragged to within an inch of their lives....
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I still fancy an (older) Type-R, always have....
Trouble is, they have all been ragged to within an inch of their lives....
If only the engines didn't turn backwards I would be eyeing one up as an engine donor.
Kevin
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(cough) S2000 'box (cough)
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They are hard work to drive but yes, its no surprise the latest incarnation is a let down as it does not have the IRS setup of the older one.
yep.. I remember they mentioned in Top Gear :y
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(cough) S2000 'box (cough)
Yes, has been talked about and I believe a few have done it.
Does an S2000 box output turn the conventional way or would the diff need to be fitted too?
Kevin
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now you've got me !
still, you could always fit both 'box and diff
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I still fancy an (older) Type-R, always have....
Trouble is, they have all been ragged to within an inch of their lives....
If only the engines didn't turn backwards I would be eyeing one up as an engine donor.
Kevin
But you could go backwards very fast ;D ;D
Can't you just turn the seat the other way ;D ;D
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But you could go backwards very fast ;D ;D
Can't you just turn the seat the other way ;D ;D
Then it'd be "Gay wheel drive" though.
Kevin