Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: tunnie on 21 November 2010, 12:40:22
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Friend at work has as a Disco II, not sure if its a 3.9 or 4.0 V8? Recently he has been loosing power on Gas, so i took a look.
He bought it 6 months ago, previous owner paid £2.5k to have it converted to LPG :o
Its a BRC system, but I really question some of their install...
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/803897/Omega/LPG/Other/web/Photo%20Nov%2021%2C%2012%2023%2054.jpg)
Now on my LPG the entire coolant flow from the heater matrix goes into my evaporator, then on its merry way... but here they have put a Y split just after the matrix. One half goes to the engine block, the other half goes down considerable way into the engine bay, then back up and over the top of the engine! :o :-/
It finds its way to the evaporator on the passenger, side, this is also where the gas feed is....
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/803897/Omega/LPG/Other/web/Photo%20Nov%2021%2C%2012%2019%2055.jpg)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/803897/Omega/LPG/Other/web/Photo%20Nov%2021%2C%2012%2021%2031.jpg)
Its just a box compared to my evaporator, the electrical bit for the gas sits externally, the gas feed comes off from this through the usual filter and over to the plenum area...
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/803897/Omega/LPG/Other/web/Photo%20Nov%2021%2C%2012%2021%2053.jpg)
The return feed for the evaporator then goes back over the top of the engine, where i loose track of it. Considering previous bod paid £2.5k there are some real tunnie type bodges....
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/803897/Omega/LPG/Other/web/Photo%20Nov%2021%2C%2012%2022%2019.jpg)
He said the injectors where frozen white, to me, its seems like its not getting enough coolant, as I had similar issues on a LPG project. Now i struggle to see with that Y split that it ever gets enough coolant, but he says its been fine all summer.
Only difference is now, he is using the heating rather than air-con, so I am wondering if (cause i can't really see) if the split of the heater matrix has been taken off the by-pass? That way when heaters are on, its getting even less coolant flow?
He said even with heaters on full, still had lack of power. (on petrol its fine) I asked he if had tried driving with system off and using air-con so it would use the by-pass, he hadn't, so for the weekend i suggested driving back like that see if it made any difference.
Should also point out that on LPG the engine was over-heating (again on petrol fine)
For me everything points to poor coolant flow? :-/
Unless i am barking up the wrong tree ::) ;D
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Ime, the coolant feed to vaporiser needs to be taken direct from the coolant output from the block, then on to the heater in line. And at least two of those joints are leaking coolant.
Surprised it's not running lumpy as well ....?
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.....and yes, looks a bit of a lash up. £2500 ? Could have had a prins system for far less.
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i just find it odd the take the coolant flow across the top of the engine!
But he says its been running fine until this cold snap :-/
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i just find it odd the take the coolant flow across the top of the engine!
But he says its been running fine until this cold snap :-/
You mean until he started taking a large proportion of the heat from the coolant system for the cabin heating ;) ;)
It's not an aesthetically pleasing installation and is, technically, incorrect as the "y" piece should make the coolant flow in parallel with the matrix. That is the official line. In reality, remove the "y"pieces and fit the vaporiser in series before the matrix ;) This is foolproof and means fewer joints ;)
Also, with the coolant hoses running over the engine he's getting air locks in the system. I expect with a good bleed of the coolant system this will run OK ;) That is the quickest and easiest resolution to the current problem but it will air lock again ::)
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...Now on my LPG the entire coolant flow from the heater matrix goes into my evaporator, then on its merry way...
....For me everything points to poor coolant flow? :-/
Firstly... No it doesn't, it goes through the Vaporiser, then into the HBV, then on its merry way ;) ;)
Yep... Poor coolant flow as per my post ^^^^^ :y
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anything he can do to get heat and LPG? guess need to re-do the pipe work?
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only way with the system as it is at the moment is to run petrol till engine really hot then switch to lpg, however if he has the heater on full blast it may just do the same thing, so get it hot on petrol and the cabin then switch to gas and turn the blowers off!!
persoonally i would reroute the pipework to go into vapouriser first then heater, then he gets full heat into vapouriser :y
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for £ 2,500 should have been done right the first time...i had a look at a g4 system a friend had fitted to his volvo in poland..i was expecting a lash up and i have got to say very neat..nothing like that up above :y
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anything he can do to get heat and LPG? guess need to re-do the pipe work?
Only thing to do really is re-plumb it, Vaporiser then Heater Matrix in series.
He can try bleeding the trapped air out but it wont be easy ;) ;)
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only way with the system as it is at the moment is to run petrol till engine really hot then switch to lpg, however if he has the heater on full blast it may just do the same thing, so get it hot on petrol and the cabin then switch to gas and turn the blowers off!!
persoonally i would reroute the pipework to go into vapouriser first then heater, then he gets full heat into vapouriser :y
Cheers G :y
anything he can do to get heat and LPG? guess need to re-do the pipe work?
Only thing to do really is re-plumb it, Vaporiser then Heater Matrix in series.
He can try bleeding the trapped air out but it wont be easy ;) ;)
Thought as much, when its actually running its not too bad apparently he gets 17mpg on gas, which aint bad for a V8
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only way with the system as it is at the moment is to run petrol till engine really hot then switch to lpg, however if he has the heater on full blast it may just do the same thing, so get it hot on petrol and the cabin then switch to gas and turn the blowers off!!
persoonally i would reroute the pipework to go into vapouriser first then heater, then he gets full heat into vapouriser :y
Cheers G :y
anything he can do to get heat and LPG? guess need to re-do the pipe work?
Only thing to do really is re-plumb it, Vaporiser then Heater Matrix in series.
He can try bleeding the trapped air out but it wont be easy ;) ;)
Thought as much, when its actually running its not too bad apparently he gets 17mpg on gas, which aint bad for a V8
Sounds about right... My 3.5 RR (on a mixer system) used to get 17+ on a run :y
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Don't blame BRC ... they only supply the ECU/vapouriser/injectors etc .. they DON'T actually do the work .. that is down to cowboy installers !!!
My system, which several folk, whose opinions I value, have seen and approved, is also a BRC ... the difference is ... it has been installed PROPERLY ...
:)
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Don't blame BRC ... they only supply the ECU/vapouriser/injectors etc .. they DON'T actually do the work .. that is down to cowboy installers !!!
My system, which several folk, whose opinions I value, have seen and approved, is also a BRC ... the difference is ... it has been installed PROPERLY ...
:)
Absolutely correct on both counts :y :y Supplier of kit does just that, although if they saw the standard of that work BRC would not be impressed ;)
And your installation is the first and only "Professional" installation which meets my expectations and would encourage me to let them work on my car :y
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Sounds a bit similar to mine when I got it. The plumbing for the vapouriser was plumbed in after the HBV etc. Mine took a long time to switch over to gas and would sometimes switch back to petrol, but it didnt run rough.Didnt have pipes running over the top of the engine to cause serious airlocks though, so maybe thats the main problem. :-/
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As well as the poorly thought-out circuit; I wonder if a stuck-thermostat (or blocked w/sealant or debris after the install) might also be implicated in the coolant heat shortfall......a V8 is a big ol` lump of metal to warm up from a cold start if the radiator is still (even only partly) in the circuit.:-/
Very much a lash-up in appearance....I`d not be at all impressed if I`d paid £2500. :(
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....I`d not be at all impressed if I`d paid £2500. :(
I'd be highly unimpressed if I'd paid more than £2.50 ;) ;)
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Don't blame BRC ... they only supply the ECU/vapouriser/injectors etc .. they DON'T actually do the work .. that is down to cowboy installers !!!
My system, which several folk, whose opinions I value, have seen and approved, is also a BRC ... the difference is ... it has been installed PROPERLY ...
:)
Sorry I did not mean to imply BRC were at fault, when i refered to 'Their install' I should have mentioned the installers not the kit! :)
Can anyone recommend a place down South that he could take it to? :-/
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Don't blame BRC ... they only supply the ECU/vapouriser/injectors etc .. they DON'T actually do the work .. that is down to cowboy installers !!!
My system, which several folk, whose opinions I value, have seen and approved, is also a BRC ... the difference is ... it has been installed PROPERLY ...
:)
Sorry I did not mean to imply BRC were at fault, when i refered to 'Their install' I should have mentioned the installers not the kit! :)
Can anyone recommend a place down South that he could take it to? :-/
Whereabouts "down south" ?? 2 places I know of are the one that did mine .. very near to Kevin, .... and a place near Hullavington, Wiltshire that seems to specialise in Land Rovers .. not used them but they seem to have a good reputation on the LPG forums
http://www.blazegas.com/conts.html
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Don't blame BRC ... they only supply the ECU/vapouriser/injectors etc .. they DON'T actually do the work .. that is down to cowboy installers !!!
My system, which several folk, whose opinions I value, have seen and approved, is also a BRC ... the difference is ... it has been installed PROPERLY ...
:)
Sorry I did not mean to imply BRC were at fault, when i refered to 'Their install' I should have mentioned the installers not the kit! :)
Can anyone recommend a place down South that he could take it to? :-/
Whereabouts "down south" ?? 2 places I know of are the one that did mine .. very near to Kevin, .... and a place near Hullavington, Wiltshire that seems to specialise in Land Rovers .. not used them but they seem to have a good reputation on the LPG forums
http://www.blazegas.com/conts.html
Blaze get very good reviews, as E says.
TBH, he may have issues getting anyone to look at someone else's work ;) ;)
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i'll pass that link on :y
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Should have asked... Where is down South?
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Should have asked... Where is down South?
Here`s a Southerner`s quick guide to Britain:
I believe "The North" is considered to be anywhere above Watford (it even says-so on the road signs!)......in the West there is Sandbanks.......in the East there`s Bluewater and the South is where Brighton is placed on summer days.....and right in the centre of civilisation is Landon and the home counties?
Mercifully, if it wasn`t for the whole coutry being criss-crossed by a network of tube lines; some of the 'provincials' might feel cut-orf!;D
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Should have asked... Where is down South?
Here`s a Southerner`s quick guide to Britain:
I believe "The North" is considered to be anywhere above Watford (it even says-so on the road signs!)......in the West there is Sandbanks.......in the East there`s Bluewater and the South is where Brighton is placed on summer days.....and right in the centre of civilisation is Landon and the home counties?
Mercifully, if it wasn`t for the whole coutry being criss-crossed by a network of tube lines; some of the 'provincials' might feel cut-orf!;D
Thanks Debs... That's cleared it up for me ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D