Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: bigegg on 25 November 2010, 21:22:35

Title: Easy Start?
Post by: bigegg on 25 November 2010, 21:22:35
Posted on here instead of "general help" cos it's for the trannie, not the mig :.)

Been having some cold start problems recently.

Called the AA out and the mechanic (or whatever) sprayed "easy start" into the air pipe - he recommended I buy a tin.

I seem to remember someone on here saying it's not good stuff for engines, but I can't find the post (searching for "easy start" doesn't throw up anything useful).

So - what is it? will it bugger up my 2.5D n/a engine?

Oh - and any recommendations to fix the cold start problem would be appreciated.
I don't believe that the transit has glowplugs
Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: Bent valve on 25 November 2010, 21:40:10
It wont bugger it up if used sparingly, although some people insist that a diesel engine can be become addicted to it ::)
Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: waspy on 25 November 2010, 21:41:25
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It wont bugger it up if used sparingly, although some people insist that a diesel engine can be become addicted to it ::)

Agreed.
Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: bigegg on 25 November 2010, 21:42:06
cos it masks the problem, which then gets worse  ::)
Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: TheBoy on 25 November 2010, 21:44:15
It seems that once the engine gets used to easystart, it then becomes more and more of a sod to start without...
Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: bigegg on 25 November 2010, 21:46:58
well I've nearly got £500 quid saved up for another one, so if it becomes too much of a ballache, I'll go fleaybaying for another.
I reckon that one every six months for £500 a time is the cheapest way to run a van (especially when I get £250 a go for them as scrap) [1]

[1] 170 for the van, 80 for the enigine
Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: unlucky mark mv6 on 25 November 2010, 21:48:24
Seems to do the trick,as we use it at work to start the sprinter luton vans. :)
Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: Bent valve on 25 November 2010, 21:49:00
Quote
cos it masks the problem, which then gets worse  ::)
It dosent mask the problem, it just enables you to start an engine with a cold start problem.  It wont do the engine any harm if used sparingly. And engines dont get addicted to easy start.
Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: TheBoy on 25 November 2010, 21:54:06
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Quote
cos it masks the problem, which then gets worse  ::)
It dosent mask the problem, it just enables you to start an engine with a cold start problem.  It wont do the engine any harm if used sparingly. And engines dont get addicted to easy start.
That doesn't match my experiences with shitty Ford Cargos...
Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: waspy on 25 November 2010, 21:55:03
What you need is some of this

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY1YndLmbXQ[/media]
 :y :y
Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 25 November 2010, 21:56:53
The few engines where I've ever resorted to it knocked like they were firing at about 45 degrees BTDC until it burnt off. Can't do a great deal of good.

There shouldn't be a need for it, so better to fix the problem. :y

Kevin
Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: Omegatoy on 25 November 2010, 22:00:21
its common fault on the 2.5di and its all down to cranking voltage, if you want to fix it properly, then get yourself another battery and run two, this give the di the cranking speed it needs to fire up in the coldest weather :y
Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: Debs. on 25 November 2010, 22:24:39
I`ve used Bradex Easy Start on old tractors directly into the metal induction manifold and in very cold weather it can bring life to the hopeless 'Case' (or CAT) ;D

....but, Ether catches-light VERY easily and you have to be really careful in a car set up, not to set light to your air filter and induction system......it`ll all end in tears if those expensive plastic ducts and sensors start to revert to the formless blob from whence they originated.  ;)

A fully charged battery and a full-set of functioning glow-plugs should be all that`s needed to start any diesel. :y
Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: joshwyatt on 25 November 2010, 22:39:36
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Quote
Quote
cos it masks the problem, which then gets worse  ::)
It dosent mask the problem, it just enables you to start an engine with a cold start problem.  It wont do the engine any harm if used sparingly. And engines dont get addicted to easy start.
That doesn't match my experiences with shitty Ford Cargos...

The 0813's and such like? I've strangely always wanted one. I think I'll take my test that enables me to operate 7.5 ton vehicles and have a Cargo to transport vehicles about locally.

I'm suprised that a Transit wouldn't start first time in the cold. I've always found the Transit DI and TD (Smiley front) to be supremely reliable. 'M', 'T' and 'W' plate ones I've had, two were the DI and one was the TD. Would always start first time, even when it's reeeeeally cold.
Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: Vamps on 25 November 2010, 23:04:31
Last time I used easy start was down a carburetor....getting that getting old feeling...... :(
Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: Vamps on 25 November 2010, 23:06:38
Quote
its common fault on the 2.5di and its all down to cranking voltage, if you want to fix it properly, then get yourself another battery and run two, this give the di the cranking speed it needs to fire up in the coldest weather :y

I did this to a Mark1 GT Cortina, cold starting problems, typical of the period, fitted a second battery and no more problems..... :y
Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: tidla on 25 November 2010, 23:14:11
Quote
Quote
its common fault on the 2.5di and its all down to cranking voltage, if you want to fix it properly, then get yourself another battery and run two, this give the di the cranking speed it needs to fire up in the coldest weather :y

I did this to a Mark1 GT Cortina, cold starting problems, typical of the period, fitted a second battery and no more problems..... :y

on the ldvs with the same engine the batteries go side by side, on the fords though i think the space for the second battery os on the opposite side.
Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: Brikhead on 25 November 2010, 23:18:32
Quote
A fully charged battery and a full-set of functioning glow-plugs should be all that`s needed to start any diesel. :y

As said, no glowplugs on the 8 valve, 2.5 trannies although they do have a cold start device...something on the pump connected to a thermostat type thing which works by melting wax (can you tell I know a lot about these!!

May also be a problem with the fuel system... I'd slightly loosen the fuel feed to the injector furthest from the pump before you try and start it tomorrow morning.
Get someone to crank it over while you check for fuel at the loosened pipe, it should pump out instantly.
Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: mrgreen on 25 November 2010, 23:20:19
my di smily was fitted with two batteries and never had a problem, well just once when the starter motor packed up but high voltage is crucial so keep clean leads and terminals e.t.c
join these guys they'll keep your van going till it drops into a big pile of ferous oxide!
http://www.fordtransit.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=4
Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: Vamps on 25 November 2010, 23:20:49
Quote
Quote
Quote
its common fault on the 2.5di and its all down to cranking voltage, if you want to fix it properly, then get yourself another battery and run two, this give the di the cranking speed it needs to fire up in the coldest weather :y

I did this to a Mark1 GT Cortina, cold starting problems, typical of the period, fitted a second battery and no more problems..... :y

on the ldvs with the same engine the batteries go side by side, on the fords though i think the space for the second battery os on the opposite side.

Indeed, I remember making a new battery box from an old metal tool box... :y
Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: Brikhead on 25 November 2010, 23:21:00
Quote
A fully charged battery and a full-set of functioning glow-plugs should be all that`s needed to start any diesel. :y

Not 'picking' on you Deb's, but you also need good compression...
 :y
Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: tidla on 25 November 2010, 23:26:52
Quote
Quote
A fully charged battery and a full-set of functioning glow-plugs should be all that`s needed to start any diesel. :y

Not 'picking' on you Deb's, but you also need good compression...
 :y

a decent starter motor and cables free of the crusty green stuff.
Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: Vamps on 25 November 2010, 23:35:28
Accepting all this, in 1979 I got a new mk2 Transit Van, one of the first of the Mk 2, petrol 1.6, brand new out of the box and was a bugger to start, again I fitted a second battery which sorted the problem :)  guess batteries were pretty naf in those days...... :-/
Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 26 November 2010, 08:03:04
I have stripped quite a few diesel engines which have been exposed to the bloody awful stuff that is easy start. These range from small Listers and Petters to larger Case and Ford tractor engines.

On every one at least one of the conrods had a very slight bend in it and hence yes, THEY DO GET ADDICTED TO IT!

That slight bend has a big impact on compression so fix the fault, dont work round it with a can of 'I am the ultimate bodge merchant' easy start.
Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: Omegatoy on 26 November 2010, 08:09:46
Ok here is the problem in a nutshell, the di has no glowplugs and needs the cranking power of 2 batteries in the cold weather to alow the injection pump to turn fast enough to atomise the fuel at the injectors, and raise the compression in the cylinders enough to ignite the fuel, on a single battery with thick fuel and slow enugh turning it wont happen, having said that you may not notice the engine is turning any slower but believe me it isnt enough to start it,some are worse than others but must have done 4 or 5 now with the same problem and all have never had another non start,
Yes you are correct the other battery needs to go on the opposite side of the engine bay so a little jiggery pokery with cables is in order but it will cure the probem :y
Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: Debs. on 26 November 2010, 08:26:56
Quote
Quote
A fully charged battery and a full-set of functioning glow-plugs should be all that`s needed to start any diesel. :y

Not 'picking' on you Deb's, but you also need good compression...
 :y

......and air and fuel! ;D
Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 26 November 2010, 08:43:30
and fuel which combusts at the correct point on the cycle for the engine design....not early like easy start does!
Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: bigegg on 26 November 2010, 10:50:42
Thanks everybody.
After spending the last 2 1/2 hours (I should have been on the road at 8am!) trying to get the bluddy thing started, I've now got to work, and am going to fix it. (or scrap it)

The cable from the battery to the starter has been bodged together from the remains of three other cables, and was red hot after trying to start - the starter wouldn't even turn over with a known working, fully charged battery.

My last van had a dual battery, and I kept the cables when I scrapped it, so will be fitting a dual battery system today - and binning the easy start.

Its already had a new(er) alternator and starter - so there's not that much left to change.



Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: Bent valve on 26 November 2010, 19:07:10
Quote
I have stripped quite a few diesel engines which have been exposed to the bloody awful stuff that is easy start. These range from small Listers and Petters to larger Case and Ford tractor engines.

On every one at least one of the conrods had a very slight bend in it and hence yes, THEY DO GET ADDICTED TO IT!

That slight bend has a big impact on compression so fix the fault, dont work round it with a can of 'I am the ultimate bodge merchant' easy start.
Perhaps because the rods were slightly bent, was the  reason the engine needed easy start. Did you examine the rods before easy start was used? No, I suspect not. your diagnosis would never stand up in court ;D
Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 26 November 2010, 19:10:32
Quote
Quote
I have stripped quite a few diesel engines which have been exposed to the bloody awful stuff that is easy start. These range from small Listers and Petters to larger Case and Ford tractor engines.

On every one at least one of the conrods had a very slight bend in it and hence yes, THEY DO GET ADDICTED TO IT!

That slight bend has a big impact on compression so fix the fault, dont work round it with a can of 'I am the ultimate bodge merchant' easy start.
Perhaps because the rods were slightly bent, was the  reason they needed easy start. Did you examine the rods before easy start was used? No, I suspect not. your diagnosis would never stand up in court ;D

Quite the contary, on to of the engines we had done a re-build when frst purchased and all was well. We have some complete Morons who, when its cold, use Easy start.

The result is bent rods.

And when you apply logic to what it does its no surprise becasue it ignites WAY before TDC and applies a very sudden downward force  and hence distorts the rods.

Simples  ;D ;D

It is the tool of the ultimate bodge merchant :P
Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: Bent valve on 26 November 2010, 19:13:03
Quote
Quote
Quote
I have stripped quite a few diesel engines which have been exposed to the bloody awful stuff that is easy start. These range from small Listers and Petters to larger Case and Ford tractor engines.

On every one at least one of the conrods had a very slight bend in it and hence yes, THEY DO GET ADDICTED TO IT!

That slight bend has a big impact on compression so fix the fault, dont work round it with a can of 'I am the ultimate bodge merchant' easy start.
Perhaps because the rods were slightly bent, was the  reason they needed easy start. Did you examine the rods before easy start was used? No, I suspect not. your diagnosis would never stand up in court ;D

Quite the contary, on to of the engines we had done a re-build when frst purchased and all was well. We have some complete Morons who, when its cold, use Easy start.

The result is bent rods.

And when you apply logic to what it does its no surprise becasue it ignites WAY before TDC and applies a very sudden downward force  and hence distorts the rods.

Simples  ;D ;D

It is the tool of the ultimate bodge merchant :P
It does smell good though, you have to agree :y
Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 26 November 2010, 19:15:40
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
I have stripped quite a few diesel engines which have been exposed to the bloody awful stuff that is easy start. These range from small Listers and Petters to larger Case and Ford tractor engines.

On every one at least one of the conrods had a very slight bend in it and hence yes, THEY DO GET ADDICTED TO IT!

That slight bend has a big impact on compression so fix the fault, dont work round it with a can of 'I am the ultimate bodge merchant' easy start.
Perhaps because the rods were slightly bent, was the  reason they needed easy start. Did you examine the rods before easy start was used? No, I suspect not. your diagnosis would never stand up in court ;D

Quite the contary, on to of the engines we had done a re-build when frst purchased and all was well. We have some complete Morons who, when its cold, use Easy start.

The result is bent rods.

And when you apply logic to what it does its no surprise becasue it ignites WAY before TDC and applies a very sudden downward force  and hence distorts the rods.

Simples  ;D ;D

It is the tool of the ultimate bodge merchant :P
It does smell good though, you have to agree :y


Its great for cleaning things to!  :y
Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: Bent valve on 26 November 2010, 19:30:05
I used easy start for a period of around six months on my suzuki trail bike when the choke plunger siezed up, when i finaly got around to fixing the choke it started normally with no ill effects :y

Another method I used to use on an old gun tug fitted with a 3 cylinder lister diesel was to hold a burning newspaper next to the air intake in freezing weather, which did the trick :)
Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: hoofing it on 26 November 2010, 20:19:08
Now for my 2 bobs worth :D
I would pull injectors and get them tested. you can't strip them in the transit Di I'd put money on duff injector(s).
As for easy start thats like heroin for diesels.
My old tranny started better when frozen than hot.
I had to replace 3 injectors £35 each :y
Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: bigegg on 27 November 2010, 09:16:38
Didn't manage to get the second battery installed  yesterday.
DID get the battery cables replaced tho.

Considering it was -5 and three inches of snow on the van this morning, I'll forgive her for needing a tiny little boost to start this morning.
Quote
easy start thats like heroin for diesels

Easy-Start now in the bin. (Say NO to drugs!)
Title: Re: Easy Start?
Post by: The Red Baron on 27 November 2010, 09:27:41
i had a commer Ts3 2 stroke in a lorry, hadnt been started for years, chucked a burning rag in the air intake. :D...roared into life. the good old days of starting an old oil burner.  :y