Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: feeutfo on 05 December 2010, 11:45:48
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Mv6 was much better than Elite suspension on my old car obviously. But still could be better I thought. Although it still didn't ride the same as Kevin's MV6, possibly because I kept the self levelling suspension shocks at the back.
I have a car here with full Irmscher suspension and it's too firm over " wumps " as I call them, smooth but undulating surfaces such as some of the man hole covers round here that have subsidence around them. No give at all.
It rides smaller bumps and imperfections ok and there is no body roll which I like. So, wondering if the springs are good but the dampers are too firm for my taste? Is it worth fitting more supple shocks with the irmscher springs maybe?
Also hear good things about bilstien shocks and stienmetz springs. Don't want to lower too much either, 15 mill is fine, 30 mill is a bit far IMO. Although not ruling that out.
Any thoughts and experiences ?
Ta.
Ps irmscher stuff not for sale btw. :P
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Although some 4 pot ones here. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/IRMSCHER-Omega-Saloon-Lowering-Spring-Kit-/400177385460?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5d2c6e4ff4#ht_1310wt_867
Crikey! :o
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Although some 4 pot ones here. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/IRMSCHER-Omega-Saloon-Lowering-Spring-Kit-/400177385460?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5d2c6e4ff4#ht_1310wt_867
Crikey! :o
A better way to lower a 4 pot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLAAXHwXHmk
;)
Kevin
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Although some 4 pot ones here. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/IRMSCHER-Omega-Saloon-Lowering-Spring-Kit-/400177385460?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5d2c6e4ff4#ht_1310wt_867
Crikey! :o
A better way to lower a 4 pot. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLAAXHwXHmk)
;)
Kevin
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Fixed. But I'm not sure you're going to like it. :-X
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We're sorry, the page that you requested cannot be found.
Fixed. But I'm not sure you're going to like it. :-X
It was most likely a V6 that was crushed, the 4 pot towed it there ;D
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koni or bilstein, but the answer of "which one" depends personal choice, driving style , preferred ride height..
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found this..hope that helps :y
"My friend owns Eurotire on 46 in Fairfield NJ. They do suspension work, and he's always prefered Bilstein over Koni's due to the harsh ride Koni's give. I think he qualifies as an experienced professional, as he's worked on hundreds of cars in the last 20 years.
The high pressure monotube design is patented, and allows better control than the Koni's twintube low pressure design. The "adjustability" on the Koni's is to make up for pressure loss over time, despite the marketing claims to the contrary. The Bilstein's don't require this, as they rarely fail at all.
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Here's a copy/paste from another VERY experienced professional's opinion from elsewhere on this board:
The issue of which is better, Koni or Bilstein has no simple answer. As with many things in life, it depends on what compromises are important.
The Konis are adjustable and this can be important to some drivers. If you want to set the car very stiff to run competitive events and then soften it up somewhat for the drive home, the adjustable feature is nice. The adjustable feature also allows some correction for any decrease in dampening control due to wear over time. My associate Kern Fischer (former engineer for GM, Ford, Director of engineering for Maremont Corp. manufacturers of Gabriel and other private label shocks and former pro rally driver) and I, discussed this issue in depth over lunch today. I asked Kern to document his comments as my short hand stinks. He offers the following:
"The adjustment is on jounce (wheel moving down relative to body) control only. If too much jounce control is introduced, the wheel cannot adequately follow uneven surfaces and handling can actually be decreased. Ride quality also suffers. The adjustable feature also requires some experimentation and expertise to optimize the settings front to rear for any particular track/road situation. What works well at one track may not work well at another.
The Bilstein dampers have linear valveing control that is tailored to the vehicle. My experience of having them on four vehicles and working with numerous customers on custom applications is that they are very tolerant of variations in spring rate and vehicle weight. They also offer excellent ride/handling compromise. In all cases the ride quality has been very acceptable and the handling control is excellent.
The Bilsteins have also proven to be very long lived. Of the four personal cars, one was sold with 105,000 on the dampers and it went to 140,000 before losing track of the car. One currently has 80,000 on the dampers. It is used on the street and track and is very stable and controllable while still being a treat to drive.
Car 3 had no listing in the Bilstein catalogue so we built some special dampers using the factory strut tubes with inserts that were physically correct but were designed for other (lighter) cars. The front inserts were for one car and the rears were for another. This effort was expended because I knew that the installation would be a "install and forget" situation. The car was sold with 12 years of use and 120,000 miles on the dampers. It had been used primarily as a street car but also had in excess of 20 track weekends on it. Just before the sale it had been to two track events and felt like new. The purchaser, coming back from the test drive, commented that he was amazed at the handling, given the miles on the car. His second comment was "can I take it home now!" It is still being used three years later, same dampers - current mileage unknown.
The experience with these 3 cars led to the choice of Bilstein for the 4th car. The car as delivered from the factory had good handling but was slightly soft for my taste. It also had some nose rise under acceleration and dip under braking. The installation of Bilsteins resulted in a more stable chassis while the ride quality remained relatively unchanged even with the sport setting." (end of commentary)
Several years ago, Road and Track performed a damper test. At that time, Koni and Bilstein were the leaders of the pack by a fair margin. The Konis set on full stiff were slightly faster than the Bilstein on the track but the car could not be driven comfortably on the street with that setting. The Bilsteins were very acceptable for both environments with their single dampening setting."
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When I bought my Elite estate I didn't realise at the time the suspension had been changed to bilstien springs and shocks. Initially I found the ride a lot harsher than my previous saloon Elite but have now got used to it and found it handles quite well..
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Hmmm, interesting read. I always felt rebound damping to be off on most of the cars i've owned. The car drops into dips rather than the wheel extending into them and the chassis staying at "a level" , too much rebound damping (jounce? Wtf is that all about? ;D) not allowing the wheel to drop quick enough has been a major pain in my life with bikes as well. It can destroy a tyre in a couple of laps. >:(
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Plus ime. Adjustable stuff has too wide a range of adjustment to enable good set up without help of guru in the black art.
Where as non adjustable is set to a specific car and has to be set correctly when made, rather than leaving the customer to finish the job. Personal taste aside of course, I don't need track set up.
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first thing - keep ride height the same as standard car - the god principle.
second thing - select if you want a harder ride, which means the spring package. If yes, go for harder springs, if no stay standard rate.
third - damper spec is dictated by spring package. ALTHOUGH an adjustable damper can allow some setting to taste.
My preferred "take" is to keep the spring package standard, as it gives the Omega the adjustability (read handling) that I like, to dial in a little extra front negative camber for a bit better turn-in and for front adjustable dampers if I can afford them. And to make very sure that the geometry is well adjusted, especially the steering.
I find this works very well for both road and track cars. Omeas are very fine-handling cars, which don't benefit from the "all grip" approach. You'll see when we get you on the track in the spring.
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on another front, the Holden has a lower ride-height (standard on the SS) and wider tyres, not to mention another 200 horsepower, but doesn't handle as well as my Omegas, well at least the ones I've set properly.
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first thing - keep ride height the same as standard car - the god principle.
second thing - select if you want a harder ride, which means the spring package. If yes, go for harder springs, if no stay standard rate.
third - damper spec is dictated by spring package. ALTHOUGH an adjustable damper can allow some setting to taste.
My preferred "take" is to keep the spring package standard, as it gives the Omega the adjustability (read handling) that I like, to dial in a little extra front negative camber for a bit better turn-in and for front adjustable dampers if I can afford them. And to make very sure that the geometry is well adjusted, especially the steering.
I find this works very well for both road and track cars. Omeas are very fine-handling cars, which don't benefit from the "all grip" approach. You'll see when we get you on the track in the spring.
I struggle to tell which component produces the ....displeasure with the feeling from the car. I don't like body roll fore and aft or side to side at all. So presume firm springs?
But I hate the harsh feel from smaller bumps of half inch or so, I don't want every tiny inperfection transmitted to the seat and steering wheel. So I guess soft dampers?
TB has irmscher springs on the front of his mv6 iirc, and stock lsc mv6 dampers which seemed to work well.
Plus 18s will be fitted in the spring. 245 40 18.
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its quite easy for harder springs to overcome dampers, but not the other way round.
you'd get the whole car jacking itself up and down - very disconcerting.
I'll have a think of a suspension set to go with tyres that wide. The Holden has 265's on it, but they're far too wide really. It's very difficult to get a good "swing" going with it. That's kinda my best criteria for a fine-handling car, one where you get the feeling yo could drive it at speed cross-country for hours and hours.
The EVO has 225/245 combination on it and it's really onlyany good on the track as you have to use pretty much full-throttle everywhere to overcome the grip.
we're up for a Woody's weekend early in the spring - it'd give us a chance to compare some different spec cars.
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its quite easy for harder springs to overcome dampers, but not the other way round.
you'd get the whole car jacking itself up and down - very disconcerting.
I'll have a think of a suspension set to go with tyres that wide. The Holden has 265's on it, but they're far too wide really. It's very difficult to get a good "swing" going with it. That's kinda my best criteria for a fine-handling car, one where you get the feeling yo could drive it at speed cross-country for hours and hours.
The EVO has 225/245 combination on it and it's really onlyany good on the track as you have to use pretty much full-throttle everywhere to overcome the grip.
we're up for a Woody's weekend early in the spring - it'd give us a chance to compare some different spec cars.
Would it involve curry and beer? ;D
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and much more besides.
something to be provided for the laydeez, too I'm sure.
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something to be provided for the laydeez, ...
Isn't it a fruit based drink for the ladies? ;) ;)