Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Del Boy on 01 December 2010, 22:14:30

Title: Ok so back to tyres
Post by: Del Boy on 01 December 2010, 22:14:30
Avon ZZ3's are terrible in the snow  ;D

Big beemer was absolutely terrible in the snow today and I mean bad, at one point I couldn't move as traction control just kept cutting the power, stability control was good mind you, put my foot down to get past a car started spinning at 60 MPH. Coming back from the wedding today up the M20, today is as bad as I've ever seen the motorway, 40 MPH all the way home from Maidstone, and it was sliding then, scary stuff, but it's so fun when you're on a quiet road.

All I can say is, the M3 stays asleep  ;D
Title: Re: Ok so back to tyres
Post by: mrgreen on 01 December 2010, 22:37:10
snow at 60 mph :( sounds scary to me without snow shoes on.
Title: Re: Ok so back to tyres
Post by: Del Boy on 01 December 2010, 23:01:09
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snow at 60 mph :( sounds scary to me without snow shoes on.

Even scarier when a lorry is sliding around next to you, which is why I had to get passed  ;D
Title: Re: Ok so back to tyres
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 02 December 2010, 07:18:46
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Avon ZZ3's are terrible in the snow  ;D

Big beemer was absolutely terrible in the snow today and I mean bad, at one point I couldn't move as traction control just kept cutting the power, stability control was good mind you, put my foot down to get past a car started spinning at 60 MPH. Coming back from the wedding today up the M20, today is as bad as I've ever seen the motorway, 40 MPH all the way home from Maidstone, and it was sliding then, scary stuff, but it's so fun when you're on a quiet road.

All I can say is, the M3 stays asleep  ;D


I must say Del during that freeze at the end of last year mine were very good in the snow.  However my new Pirelli's have proved to be worth every penny giving me great grip and traction so far! :D :D ;) 
Title: Re: Ok so back to tyres
Post by: Del Boy on 02 December 2010, 08:33:51
Maybe it's just the big Beemer that's poor then  :-/
Title: Re: Ok so back to tyres
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 02 December 2010, 09:58:13
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Maybe it's just the big Beemer that's poor then  :-/


Or the tyres are getting low on their treads Del? :-/ :-/
Title: Re: Ok so back to tyres
Post by: Del Boy on 02 December 2010, 12:32:03
Nope, about 5mm at the back.
Title: Re: Ok so back to tyres
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 02 December 2010, 12:43:41
Beemers are pretty bloody awful in the snow.

Get some weight in the boot as that will make a hell of a lot of difference.

It wont be the tyres, as long as they have reasonable tread left
Title: Re: Ok so back to tyres
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 02 December 2010, 13:01:46
bimmers are really awful in the snow, even with snow tires..

not worth the risk to damage an expensive car ..

use taxi :P
Title: Re: Ok so back to tyres
Post by: Shimmy on 02 December 2010, 13:42:09
More to do with the width of the tyres on BMW's imo, they're usually quite wide compared to other marques which doesn't help in snow.  When my rear tyre blew out recently, I had more grip with the spare wheel on the back which had a much smaller contact patch to cut through the snow.

Obviously brimmed tank and lots of ballast in the boot will help loads.  I actually used my rather hefty brother yesterday to sit in my boot to get me going through the thicker stuff.
Title: Re: Ok so back to tyres
Post by: aaronjb on 02 December 2010, 13:42:28
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Beemers are pretty bloody awful in the snow.

Get some weight in the boot as that will make a hell of a lot of difference.

It wont be the tyres, as long as they have reasonable tread left

As long as it's not the one with the cardboard boot floor eh.. ;D
Title: Re: Ok so back to tyres
Post by: Del Boy on 02 December 2010, 13:46:20
Few bits in the boot, tyres are 265's at the back, they are cack in the snow, but I'll use the van, that got stuck this morning though  :-/
Title: Re: Ok so back to tyres
Post by: Kevin Wood on 02 December 2010, 14:06:31
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Few bits in the boot, tyres are 265's at the back

 :o

Who would have thought a company based in Munich would have made something that doesn't work in the snow. ;D

Then again, they put their 265s away and swap to a set of 185 winter tyres in the winter. ;)

The rock hard suspension that most BMWs have probably doesn't help a lot either.

Kevin
Title: Re: Ok so back to tyres
Post by: Del Boy on 02 December 2010, 14:19:49
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Few bits in the boot, tyres are 265's at the back

 :o

Who would have thought a company based in Munich would have made something that doesn't work in the snow. ;D

Then again, they put their 265s away and swap to a set of 185 winter tyres in the winter. ;)

The rock hard suspension that most BMWs have probably doesn't help a lot either.

Kevin

They're supposed to be 245's & 275's, but 235's & 265's are cheaper  ;D My suspension in squidgy I've got an SE.
Title: Re: Ok so back to tyres
Post by: msb1973 on 07 December 2010, 20:28:57
my m3 was brilliant in the snow so are you sure its not the driver thats the problem instead of the car?
Title: Re: Ok so back to tyres
Post by: Debs. on 07 December 2010, 20:44:56
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As long as it's not the one with the cardboard boot floor eh.. ;D

I`d bought and driven home from the scrapyard with a 100 kg. blacksmith`s anvil, before I realised the pup-mobile`s load floor was made only from cardboard and fluff.....the spare wheel prevented a near-total collapse. :-[
Title: Re: Ok so back to tyres
Post by: Del Boy on 07 December 2010, 21:57:23
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my m3 was brilliant in the snow so are you sure its not the driver thats the problem instead of the car?
Yes I'm quite sure it's not the driver, I'm not talking about my M3 either ;D Mercedes E classes are loads better than my beemer.
Title: Re: Ok so back to tyres
Post by: jonnycool on 07 December 2010, 22:13:01
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More to do with the width of the tyres on BMW's imo, they're usually quite wide compared to other marques which doesn't help in snow.  When my rear tyre blew out recently, I had more grip with the spare wheel on the back which had a much smaller contact patch to cut through the snow.

Obviously brimmed tank and lots of ballast in the boot will help loads.  I actually used my rather hefty brother yesterday to sit in my boot to get me going through the thicker stuff.
Y'know a thinner tyre cuts through the snow better because it puts the pressure on a smaller contact patch? Well why does letting some air out of your tyres to get a better grip in snow work then? Surely you're trying to get a bigger area of contact when you're doing that?
Title: Re: Ok so back to tyres
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 07 December 2010, 22:23:01
actually this snow cutting theory is false..

the reason behind narrow tires is to decrease tire area, in order to increase weight /area ratio which will effect grip ..  :y
Title: Re: Ok so back to tyres
Post by: Broomies Mate on 07 December 2010, 22:30:35
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More to do with the width of the tyres on BMW's imo, they're usually quite wide compared to other marques which doesn't help in snow.  When my rear tyre blew out recently, I had more grip with the spare wheel on the back which had a much smaller contact patch to cut through the snow.

Obviously brimmed tank and lots of ballast in the boot will help loads.  I actually used my rather hefty brother yesterday to sit in my boot to get me going through the thicker stuff.
Y'know a thinner tyre cuts through the snow better because it puts the pressure on a smaller contact patch? Well why does letting some air out of your tyres to get a better grip in snow work then? Surely you're trying to get a bigger area of contact when you're doing that?

Yes and no.

A 'properly' inflated tyre is not good for traction when on ice, snow, wet or even dry roads.  A softer tyre will give much better traction in all conditions, but at the cost of wear, especially on dry roads.

When they find a way of making side walls as sturdy as the contact surface without reducing ride quality, we'll all be driving around with 10 PSI in our tyres.
Title: Re: Ok so back to tyres
Post by: msb1973 on 02 January 2011, 19:04:12
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More to do with the width of the tyres on BMW's imo, they're usually quite wide compared to other marques which doesn't help in snow.  When my rear tyre blew out recently, I had more grip with the spare wheel on the back which had a much smaller contact patch to cut through the snow.

Obviously brimmed tank and lots of ballast in the boot will help loads.  I actually used my rather hefty brother yesterday to sit in my boot to get me going through the thicker stuff.
Y'know a thinner tyre cuts through the snow better because it puts the pressure on a smaller contact patch? Well why does letting some air out of your tyres to get a better grip in snow work then? Surely you're trying to get a bigger area of contact when you're doing that?

Yes and no.

A 'properly' inflated tyre is not good for traction when on ice, snow, wet or even dry roads.  A softer tyre will give much better traction in all conditions, but at the cost of wear, especially on dry roads.

When they find a way of making side walls as sturdy as the contact surface without reducing ride quality, we'll all be driving around with 10 PSI in our tyres.

they have they are called runflats 8-)
Title: Re: Ok so back to tyres
Post by: TheBoy on 03 January 2011, 10:24:09
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More to do with the width of the tyres on BMW's imo, they're usually quite wide compared to other marques which doesn't help in snow.  When my rear tyre blew out recently, I had more grip with the spare wheel on the back which had a much smaller contact patch to cut through the snow.

Obviously brimmed tank and lots of ballast in the boot will help loads.  I actually used my rather hefty brother yesterday to sit in my boot to get me going through the thicker stuff.
Y'know a thinner tyre cuts through the snow better because it puts the pressure on a smaller contact patch? Well why does letting some air out of your tyres to get a better grip in snow work then? Surely you're trying to get a bigger area of contact when you're doing that?

Yes and no.

A 'properly' inflated tyre is not good for traction when on ice, snow, wet or even dry roads.  A softer tyre will give much better traction in all conditions, but at the cost of wear, especially on dry roads.

When they find a way of making side walls as sturdy as the contact surface without reducing ride quality, we'll all be driving around with 10 PSI in our tyres.

they have they are called runflats 8-)
And useless bloody things they are too. Even on cars who's manafacturer claims they have designed the suspension around them, my poor spine suffers.

Sadly, I suspect they will become the norm eventually :(
Title: Re: Ok so back to tyres
Post by: TheBoy on 03 January 2011, 10:25:34
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More to do with the width of the tyres on BMW's imo, they're usually quite wide compared to other marques which doesn't help in snow.  When my rear tyre blew out recently, I had more grip with the spare wheel on the back which had a much smaller contact patch to cut through the snow.

Obviously brimmed tank and lots of ballast in the boot will help loads.  I actually used my rather hefty brother yesterday to sit in my boot to get me going through the thicker stuff.
Y'know a thinner tyre cuts through the snow better because it puts the pressure on a smaller contact patch? Well why does letting some air out of your tyres to get a better grip in snow work then? Surely you're trying to get a bigger area of contact when you're doing that?

Yes and no.

A 'properly' inflated tyre is not good for traction when on ice, snow, wet or even dry roads.  A softer tyre will give much better traction in all conditions, but at the cost of wear, especially on dry roads.

When they find a way of making side walls as sturdy as the contact surface without reducing ride quality, we'll all be driving around with 10 PSI in our tyres.

they have they are called runflats 8-)
Thinking about it, I think you are incorrect :P
Title: Re: Ok so back to tyres
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 03 January 2011, 10:29:29
normal tires when used with low pressures for sometime start to fracture and erode in the sidewalls which is "good for your health" in the near future ;D

not sure the same applies to run flats , but imo they are "human made" so cant resist eternally ;D
Title: Re: Ok so back to tyres
Post by: TheBoy on 03 January 2011, 11:16:36
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normal tires when used with low pressures for sometime start to fracture and erode in the sidewalls which is "good for your health" in the near future ;D

not sure the same applies to run flats , but imo they are "human made" so cant resist eternally ;D
Letting the air out of runflats will just put the alarm on, possibly speed limit car, and knacker the tyre.
Title: Re: Ok so back to tyres
Post by: zirax on 03 January 2011, 11:26:54
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And useless bloody things they are too. Even on cars who's manafacturer claims they have designed the suspension around them, my poor spine suffers.

Sadly, I suspect they will become the norm eventually :(

I think you are right in that they will become standard. The manufacturer saves the cost of 1x alloy or space saver for every car sold. They will also likely get kick backs from the runflat makers. That will soon add into massive savings. I seem to recall Citroen saving a fortune on their cars by have one less wheel nut on each wheel?
Title: Re: Ok so back to tyres
Post by: TheBoy on 03 January 2011, 12:47:07
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And useless bloody things they are too. Even on cars who's manafacturer claims they have designed the suspension around them, my poor spine suffers.

Sadly, I suspect they will become the norm eventually :(

I think you are right in that they will become standard. The manufacturer saves the cost of 1x alloy or space saver for every car sold. They will also likely get kick backs from the runflat makers. That will soon add into massive savings. I seem to recall Citroen saving a fortune on their cars by have one less wheel nut on each wheel?
Manufacturers will do it for boot space...


I know some of the Rover cost savings - one was to remove the Rover badges from the D post, this saved about £150,000 per year...
Title: Re: Ok so back to tyres
Post by: feeutfo on 03 January 2011, 12:51:46
Run flats tramline like absalute bastuard ime. 
Title: Re: Ok so back to tyres
Post by: Kevin Wood on 03 January 2011, 13:06:51
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Run flats tramline like absalute bastuard ime. 

Yep. Sidewalls are too stiff.

The only person I know who tried to drive on a flat run-flat got pulled over and told "not to be so fsckng stupid" by a traffic cop, so the whole idea is a complete fail, IMHO. Not surprising when you consider it's being pushed by BMW. ::)

Kevin
Title: Re: Ok so back to tyres
Post by: Del Boy on 03 January 2011, 13:16:46
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normal tires when used with low pressures for sometime start to fracture and erode in the sidewalls which is "good for your health" in the near future ;D

not sure the same applies to run flats , but imo they are "human made" so cant resist eternally ;D
Letting the air out of runflats will just put the alarm on, possibly speed limit car, and knacker the tyre.

The pressure sensors only go off if one wheel has less rolling resistance than the others, so if they're all the same they should be fine  :y

It won't be good for the tyre though to purposely let the air out of a run flat though.
Title: Re: Ok so back to tyres
Post by: TheBoy on 03 January 2011, 13:29:20
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normal tires when used with low pressures for sometime start to fracture and erode in the sidewalls which is "good for your health" in the near future ;D

not sure the same applies to run flats , but imo they are "human made" so cant resist eternally ;D
Letting the air out of runflats will just put the alarm on, possibly speed limit car, and knacker the tyre.

The pressure sensors only go off if one wheel has less rolling resistance than the others, so if they're all the same they should be fine  :y

It won't be good for the tyre though to purposely let the air out of a run flat though.
I know the older ones actually recorded the pressure in the tyres (and CAN'd that to SRS ECU, so if you had a smash, and tyres were incorrect......)
Title: Re: Ok so back to tyres
Post by: Del Boy on 03 January 2011, 13:35:28
They did do that before, but apparently it was too much effort changing tyres according to a tyre fitter I know. Which is why they came up with the rolling resistance idea which is a stupid idea in my opinion anyway.