Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: TheBoy on 08 February 2011, 10:37:54
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Anyone know if a 400 x 930 tank will fit omega saloon, and fit right back against seats?
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my 90L is 400 x 827, can't see it being 360 :-/
http://www.tinleytech.co.uk/sizes.html
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my 90L is 400 x 827, can't see it being 360 :-/
http://www.tinleytech.co.uk/sizes.html
Yours is wider than my 360 x 892 ;)
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my 90L is 400 x 827, can't see it being 360 :-/
http://www.tinleytech.co.uk/sizes.html
Yours is wider than my 360 x 892 ;)
Hence i thought it must be the 400 one as it lists two for 90L, guessing it won't go any further back than mine does :-/
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400 / 360 is the diameter. Mine is 360x892 as well. Fits right back between the shock turrets with plenty of space to spare.
Kevin
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my 90L is 400 x 827, can't see it being 360 :-/
http://www.tinleytech.co.uk/sizes.html
Yours is wider than my 360 x 892 ;)
Hence i thought it must be the 400 one as it lists two for 90L, guessing it won't go any further back than mine does :-/
So when was 827 wider than 892 :o
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Tunnie, yours is a 360 diameter tank IIRCC, certainly not 400 which mine is :y
I reckon it would fit... My tank frame is as far back as the shape of the floor allows without modification and the tank is about 10mm off the back of the seats :y
Do have to bear in mind that the larger diameter tank will, obviously, take up a little more space ::) May make access to the Warning Triangle/Jack cubby hole tight too :-/
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Easy way to check... If your is 892, have you got another 40mm spare between it and the turrets? That's under 2" in old money :-X ::)
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<Cough!>
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1270406797
Looks like a 360 tank to me.
Kevin
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Easy way to check... If your is 892, have you got another 40mm spare between it and the turrets? That's under 2" in old money :-X ::)
Hmmm, got a Haynes wedged in one side (tight) and tank centrally mounted. Reckon that's too tight?
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My Tank install here:
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/kjwood/LPG%20Conversion/IMGP2105.jpg)
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/kjwood/LPG%20Conversion/IMGP2106.jpg)
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/kjwood/LPG%20Conversion/IMGP2107.jpg)
Gut feeling is there's enough room. It'll be tight but do-able.
Kevin
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numbers never my strong point :-[
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Followed KW's link and got a rather familiar page ::) ::)
I still reckon, looking at Kevin's tank pictures, it will just go :-/ :-/
A 400mm 90L will definitely fit though :y :y
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Additionally, filler hose is premade for 4 hole tanks. Worth fitting with polyflex, then change to premade once route/length known?
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Additionally, filler hose is premade for 4 hole tanks. Worth fitting with polyflex, then change to premade once route/length known?
You can just fit it with polyflex and leave it TBH.
But, I'd just work out what length you need, add a bit and order the correct pipe :y
As an addition, the front end kit does not include the filler and box. Please can you amend my listing in the locked thread to reflect this :y
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You can just fit it with polyflex and leave it TBH.
But, I'd just work out what length you need, add a bit and order the correct pipe :y
Good point, actually. If you can get an adaptor to attach polyflex to a 4 hole filler that might be an easier route than using the ready-made filler hoses. You might lose a little in fill speed but it's only the odd LPG pump that's able to fill a 4 hole significantly faster than a multivalve IME.
Kevin
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You can just fit it with polyflex and leave it TBH.
But, I'd just work out what length you need, add a bit and order the correct pipe :y
Good point, actually. If you can get an adaptor to attach polyflex to a 4 hole filler that might be an easier route than using the ready-made filler hoses. You might lose a little in fill speed but it's only the odd LPG pump that's able to fill a 4 hole significantly faster than a multivalve IME.
Kevin
Can easily be done :y But be sure to order an extra metre or 2 of Poyflex from Teilo and the ends (at a small additional cost) or you might find you're struggling with length... Can't remember how much I needed for the tank to vaporiser run :-/
As for fill speed, I agree... Very few places over here have a pump fast enough to make much difference. In Italy, however, you do notice it. I filled up (well, was filled up actually) alongside a little panda (or something similar) and my 90L tank filled as quickly as their much smaller tank :y
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I'd rather use 'Proper' hose long term.
KW/CG - could I run same way as my MV6? Is tank hole further away? IE can I just approx measure poly on MV6 (can't see all of it as above petrol tank)
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Yep, there's one garage around here (that's always expensive, so rarely visited) where my tank takes on 60 litres in probably around 30 seconds. Faster than filling petrol by a long way.
The cheap place has the slowest pump on the planet, of course, especially if someone's using the other nozzle at the same time. >:(
Kevin
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I'd rather use 'Proper' hose long term.
KW/CG - could I run same way as my MV6? Is tank hole further away? IE can I just approx measure poly on MV6 (can't see all of it as above petrol tank)
This is how it exits the valve box - filler is on the right. About the same location as the multivalve, perhaps a little further towards the centre of the tank.
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/kjwood/LPG%20Conversion/IMGP2108.jpg)
The pipe is way too thick to be routed above the petrol tank, so it would have to go round it, on the opposite side to the exhaust, and my recollection is that space is a bit tight round there hence I wondered about coming out of the body behind the bumper.
Without being under the car it's difficult to say.
Kevin
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Facelift rear bumper does seem more bulky...
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Yep, there's one garage around here (that's always expensive, so rarely visited) where my tank takes on 60 litres in probably around 30 seconds. Faster than filling petrol by a long way.
The cheap place has the slowest pump on the planet, of course, especially if someone's using the other nozzle at the same time. >:(
Kevin
I've noticed LPG users chat to one another more because it takes so long, most times i was filling up, as you are there much longer and you face each other due to the pump button, can have a good old chat. ;D
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It used to be painful waiting for the cheap garage near here to fill. Then, one day, the pump was out of order, and as I disappeared (leaving the requisite 10k miles of rubber ::)) I noticed they were ripping out the tanks, pumps, pipework, everything.
Now it's back to average fill rate. ;D
Kevin
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(leaving the requisite 10k miles of rubber ::))
Ah, the curse of MV6 drivers ::)
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(leaving the requisite 10k miles of rubber ::))
Ah, the curse of MV6 drivers ::)
Errm... It affects Elite drivers sometimes too ::)
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(leaving the requisite 10k miles of rubber ::))
Ah, the curse of MV6 drivers ::)
Errm... It affects Elite drivers sometimes too ::)
I can honestly say it hasn't happened with my current elite. My old elite just had faulty tyres ::)
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Filler hose - if we have to go around the side of petrol tank, what can we attach it to? Nothing there, except bumper :-/
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(leaving the requisite 10k miles of rubber ::))
Ah, the curse of MV6 drivers ::)
Errm... It affects Elite drivers sometimes too ::)
I can honestly say it hasn't happened with my current elite. My old elite just had faulty tyres ::)
Of course not... It's only done 1000 miles or so... Probably only been to the petrol station twice, in the safe and comfortable care of Mrs TB :P :P
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(leaving the requisite 10k miles of rubber ::))
Ah, the curse of MV6 drivers ::)
Errm... It affects Elite drivers sometimes too ::)
On rare occasions the odd CD spec driver too :o
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Filler hose - if we have to go around the side of petrol tank, what can we attach it to? Nothing there, except bumper :-/
Does the facelift bumper have the polystyrene "filler"? Can't remember ::)
If so... Embed it in that and just secure it either end... Only got to be every 60cm IIRCC to comply with COP 11 (although I prefer a maximum of 30) ;)
Must be something to secure it to, even if it's the back of the metal bumper
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(leaving the requisite 10k miles of rubber ::))
Ah, the curse of MV6 drivers ::)
Errm... It affects Elite drivers sometimes too ::)
I can honestly say it hasn't happened with my current elite. My old elite just had faulty tyres ::)
Of course not... It's only done 1000 miles or so... Probably only been to the petrol station twice, in the safe and comfortable care of Mrs TB :P :P
I charged the battery. I might give it a run tomorrow, and it will need to go to the petrol station, so it could happen....
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(leaving the requisite 10k miles of rubber ::))
Ah, the curse of MV6 drivers ::)
Errm... It affects Elite drivers sometimes too ::)
On rare occasions the odd CD spec driver too :o
Who? Did you let TB borrow your car? ;D ;D ;D
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(leaving the requisite 10k miles of rubber ::))
Ah, the curse of MV6 drivers ::)
Errm... It affects Elite drivers sometimes too ::)
On rare occasions the odd CD spec driver too :o
Who? Did you let TB borrow your car? ;D ;D ;D
Go check the mini-round-abouts near High Wycombe Asda, plenty of 2.2 rubber laid down there as it was my feeding ground for 15k
I've have you know my 2.2 has been sideways a lot recently too and not by choice :o
Popped over to the dealer in Banbarian land, had a serious sideways moment just turning in, another time i really stuggled to pull off a slight incline, road was greasy, 3.5k rpm, it was not going anywhere! I think these Falkens are ageing badly now its not in daily use :'(
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I think these Falkens are ageing badly now its not in daily use :'(
Forgot about them :-X :-X :-X
Where's my popcorn.... Chris! :D :D :D
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I think these Falkens are ageing badly now its not in daily use :'(
Forgot about them :-X :-X :-X
Where's my popcorn.... Chris! :D :D :D
I almost spun it, really caught me out, 25mph ish, right hand turn into T junction from a 40mph road, back end really stepped out, needed quite a bit of opposite lock. Not much weight in boot either :-/
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I reckon the gap between turrets is 930mm
What do experts reckon?
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I reckon the gap between turrets is 930mm
What do experts reckon?
I'll try to go out and measure mine later... Ssansach is the one to ask... He's got a 100L fitted IIRCC
But if you've measured the gap as 930 (which ISTR was what I thought) then it should go
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I reckon 935 at base and 930 towards top of turret....
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100 litre will fit
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9038936@N07/1948188599/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9038936@N07/1948188579/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9038936@N07/1948188503/ :y
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100 litre will fit
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9038936@N07/1948188599/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9038936@N07/1948188579/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9038936@N07/1948188503/ :y
That tank looks like it was made to fit an Omega. Very tidy. :y
Kevin
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Thanks Sassanach :y
Is your tank the 400 x 930 one?
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Thanks Sassanach :y
Is your tank the 400 x 930 one?
Looks like it to me :y
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Well, if it's going to be a cylinder, loosing boot and 99% of through space, it may as well be BIIIIIIG cylinder. No messing. (with self levelling though, don't fancy that without sl suspension....? )
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Well, if it's going to be a cylinder, loosing boot and 99% of through space, it may as well be BIIIIIIG cylinder. No messing. (with self levelling though, don't fancy that without sl suspension....? )
"The Posh One" reckons the extra weight amounts to naff all...
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Well, if it's going to be a cylinder, loosing boot and 99% of through space, it may as well be BIIIIIIG cylinder. No messing. (with self levelling though, don't fancy that without sl suspension....? )
"The Posh One" reckons the extra weight amounts to naff all...
Somebody on here had aggro, arse end hanging on the floor with a 100 litre. James was it? Later removed the tank to have it pinched from his garden.
Guess where I am btw....? ;D
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100L tank, full of fuel will make a noticeable difference at the arse end, especially if the fuel tank is full too ;) Mind you... You wouldn't need to find weight to stick in there when the snow comes ;D
That said, all the extra weight would be right over the axle :y
I kind of wish I'd had the extra 10 L on mine but can't complain... I ordered a 80L but he couldn't source one quickly enough ;D
But, IIRCC, a 100L tank requires 6 bolts in the frame not 4 and 3 straps... Not a major problem though :y
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Although I see what Kev means as it's over the axle obviously.
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Id be happy with an 80L, only got a little 60L ATM. On first name terms with all the cashiers at Texaco - A12 Witham. ::) ;D
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Id be happy with an 80L, only got a little 60L ATM. On first name terms with all the cashiers at Texaco - A12 Witham. ::) ;D
That is my biggest concern with getting an estate... Even with some clever work and raising the floor 70mm, I can't see a way to get more than a 71L tank in and it would drive me potty ::) ::)
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some day you will all become men and have a man sized 90L tank. 8-) ;D
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some day you will all become men and have a man sized 90L tank. 8-) ;D
I have... And mine's bigger than yours ;D ;D ;D
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Although I see what Kev means as it's over the axle obviously.
A 100L tank adds 13Kg over an 80L tank, when full. Bu66er all. Yes, it's above the axle, so might contribute a bit of body roll, but it's not behind the axle like the petrol tank is. TBH, I think it makes no odds. We're taking about the same weight as 1/4 of a tank of petrol.
Kevin
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Although I see what Kev means as it's over the axle obviously.
A 100L tank adds 13Kg over an 80L tank, when full. Bu66er all. Yes, it's above the axle, so might contribute a bit of body roll, but it's not behind the axle like the petrol tank is. TBH, I think it makes no odds. We're taking about the same weight as 1/4 of a tank of petrol.
Kevin
Surely the elite couldn't possibly have more body roll than it's already got ;D
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Surely the elite couldn't possibly have more body roll than it's already got ;D
Hadn't figured Elite suspension into the equation. I wonder if it's much worse than the MV6 in that respect? I can just about tell if I've got a full LPG tank in mine, and it manifests itself as a little more body roll. It's not a big enough effect to worry about, IMHO.
Elite starts out a bit worse in that respect, of course. On the other hand, it does have self-levelling (or has it been removed?).
Kevin
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SL still there, but Elites are soft. Too soft IMHO. I think that's why CG keeps wanting to stiffen his - though of course that could be due to too many currys
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SL still there, but Elites are soft. Too soft IMHO. I think that's why CG keeps wanting to stiffen his - though of course that could be due to too many currys
I have taken my SL out, a mega improvement but I am concerned how it will affect the ride once I put my 90L tank in :-/
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SL still there, but Elites are soft. Too soft IMHO. I think that's why CG keeps wanting to stiffen his - though of course that could be due to too many currys
I have taken my SL out, a mega improvement but I am concerned how it will affect the ride once I put my 90L tank in :-/
I'm awaiting OOFs closet gay to sell me his irmscher springs...
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SL still there, but Elites are soft. Too soft IMHO. I think that's why CG keeps wanting to stiffen his - though of course that could be due to too many currys
As said on previous occasions, I am convinced sl shocks work perfectly well with stiffer springs. So body roll can be improved that way. Current elite feels stiffer (and conciserably quicker) than previous gay omega. So happier with the set up as is tbh. So no limit on curry. You can't have too many curries. ;D
Having said that though, bilstein b4 front shocks and irmscher springs all round will be going on in a couple of months anyway. See if they work with rear sl, or bin them for rear b4's as well depending on sag.... We'll see.
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SL still there, but Elites are soft. Too soft IMHO. I think that's why CG keeps wanting to stiffen his - though of course that could be due to too many currys
I have taken my SL out, a mega improvement but I am concerned how it will affect the ride once I put my 90L tank in :-/
I'm awaiting OOFs closet gay to sell me his irmscher springs...
No chance, Groomer! :P
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Getting back on topic ::) ::)
See the long LPG Price thread for an update... I'm in the process of sorting a tank supplier who (hopefully) is going to do us a deal :y :y
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[split] [link=http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1297289492/0#0][splithere][/link][splithere_end]
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Back on topic LD, any news?
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::)
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Having a moment of doubt. Should I stick with the tried and tested 80l. Or spend a bit more (£60 as a guess) and the hassle of fitting for the 100l
Decisions decisions....
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Having a moment of doubt. Should I stick with the tried and tested 80l. Or spend a bit more (£60 as a guess) and the hassle of fitting for the 100l
Decisions decisions....
80L tank frame drops in nicely ;) And Teilo reckons he can be competitive on them :y But I'd go for the 4 hole if ordering from him. Or test the 100L single hole from the other place :-/
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At the end of the day it's another 65 miles. That wouldn't be all that significant to me but YMMV. :-/
Against a (proportionately, much) more expensive tank, trickier install, no cubby holes around it and no room above it to shove bits of wood, pipe, etc. through.
If I were doing it again I would use an 80L again.
Kevin
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From what I remember, there isn't much difference in price between Teilo's 4 hole 80l and the other place's 100 single hole...
On the one hand, the 80l in the MV6 hasn't caused any issues with range, and I have places (currently) to fill up on route to work at 73.9p. If I had to detour, maybe the 100l would prove more beneficial.
But then the 80l slips in so nicely, and I could probably get the tank fitted myself without bothering other people for help. And no concerns over extra weight, higher CoG and handling.
Hmmmm
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From what I remember, there isn't much difference in price between Teilo's 4 hole 80l and the other place's 100 single hole...
On the one hand, the 80l in the MV6 hasn't caused any issues with range, and I have places (currently) to fill up on route to work at 73.9p. If I had to detour, maybe the 100l would prove more beneficial.
But then the 80l slips in so nicely, and I could probably get the tank fitted myself without bothering other people for help. And no concerns over extra weight, higher CoG and handling.
Hmmmm
I'd go 80L if/when I do it again in a saloon and 77L(?) toroidal in an estate
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4 hole/single hole - whats the difference, why does it matter? :-/
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4 hole/single hole - whats the difference, why does it matter? :-/
You've got a single hole, I've got a 4 hole. On a single hole there's only one hole in the tank to fill, fuel feed, pressure relief and level. On a 4 hole they all have their own holes.
4 hole tanks fill quicker if you can find a high flowing pump.
Single hole tanks, or actually the multivalve, are restrictive in how much LPG they can flow
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Dont think the quick filling side is going to be an issue. Do more powerful engines need a four hole then ?
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I believe 4-hole is recommended for 3.0 ltrs and above due to fuel flow requirement .. especially at WOT/High RPM .... (and single hole might explain the lag some folks get ??? Although vapouriser will also have a large effect :) )
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Thanks Nige. I am now slightly less ignorant than I was. :y :D ;D
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I believe 4-hole is recommended for 3.0 ltrs and above due to fuel flow requirement .. especially at WOT/High RPM .... (and single hole might explain the lag some folks get ??? Although vapouriser will also have a large effect :) )
TB's flows enough LPG (but is approaching borderline). The Lag is present on 4 hole setups too ;)
But, after my visit there on Friday, we think we're getting somewhere. Seems to be caused by the Vaporiser. At gear change the injector times spike down (followed by the LPG times as it's a piggyback system), causing the LPG pressure to "overshoot" and cause brief flooding when the injectors open again. This is hopefully going to be fixed with the new vaporisers :y
Just out of interest, do you know if your system has a timing processor?
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I believe 4-hole is recommended for 3.0 ltrs and above due to fuel flow requirement .. especially at WOT/High RPM .... (and single hole might explain the lag some folks get ??? Although vapouriser will also have a large effect :) )
TB's flows enough LPG (but is approaching borderline). The Lag is present on 4 hole setups too ;)
But, after my visit there on Friday, we think we're getting somewhere. Seems to be caused by the Vaporiser. At gear change the injector times spike down (followed by the LPG times as it's a piggyback system), causing the LPG pressure to "overshoot" and cause brief flooding when the injectors open again. This is hopefully going to be fixed with the new vaporisers :y
Just out of interest, do you know if your system has a timing processor?
If I knew what one of them was I would be able to answer you !!
Write ups for my system ...
http://www.remixbg.com/Documentation/Documents/Gazovi%20uredbi/BRC/SEQUENT%20Plug%20&%20Drive/Manuale_Seq_Instal_1_3_en.pdf
http://www.brc-gas.ru/UserFiles/File/komplekt56.pdf
http://www.brc-gas.ru/UserFiles/File/docs/3.3%20SQ56%20GPL.pdf
perhaps the info you seek is somewhere in there !!!
:)
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I believe 4-hole is recommended for 3.0 ltrs and above due to fuel flow requirement .. especially at WOT/High RPM .... (and single hole might explain the lag some folks get ??? Although vapouriser will also have a large effect :) )
TB's flows enough LPG (but is approaching borderline). The Lag is present on 4 hole setups too ;)
But, after my visit there on Friday, we think we're getting somewhere. Seems to be caused by the Vaporiser. At gear change the injector times spike down (followed by the LPG times as it's a piggyback system), causing the LPG pressure to "overshoot" and cause brief flooding when the injectors open again. This is hopefully going to be fixed with the new vaporisers :y
Just out of interest, do you know if your system has a timing processor?
If I knew what one of them was I would be able to answer you !!
Write ups for my system ...
http://www.remixbg.com/Documentation/Documents/Gazovi%20uredbi/BRC/SEQUENT%20Plug%20&%20Drive/Manuale_Seq_Instal_1_3_en.pdf
http://www.brc-gas.ru/UserFiles/File/komplekt56.pdf
http://www.brc-gas.ru/UserFiles/File/docs/3.3%20SQ56%20GPL.pdf
perhaps the info you seek is somewhere in there !!!
:)
Yours is the Sequent 56 system IIRC? In which case it does have an inbuilt timing processor ;)
Perhaps we're getting somewhere. ISTR that Teilo's timing processor is about £25 :-/
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Yours is the Sequent 56 system IIRC? In which case it does have an inbuilt timing processor ;)
Perhaps we're getting somewhere. ISTR that Teilo's timing processor is about £25 :-/
I don't see any connections to the crank sensor in the sequent wiring diagrams, though.
Kevin
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Those manuals are very handy reference material for anyone contemplating a conversion for the first time, though. All except the picture on page 39 of some gibbon drilling an inlet manifold in-situ. >:(
Kevin
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Yours is the Sequent 56 system IIRC? In which case it does have an inbuilt timing processor ;)
Perhaps we're getting somewhere. ISTR that Teilo's timing processor is about £25 :-/
I don't see any connections to the crank sensor in the sequent wiring diagrams, though.
Kevin
Good point... Says timing advance processor built in though :-/
Mind you, somewhere else it says "except sequent 56" ::)
Think the reducer is the problem though. Must do some live data runs with the tech 2 and see what the injector times do at changeover ;)
[edit]Just had another look... Timing processor is an additional feature that may or may not have been used ::) There was talk about trying one on mine but we forgot :-[ Might get one sent up at some point if the lag still exists with the new reducers[/edit]
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Changing my injectors for 'Magic Jet' ones on my 2.5 Elite, instantly removed all traces of lag... :y
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Changing my injectors for 'Magic Jet' ones on my 2.5 Elite, instantly removed all traces of lag... :y
Can you remember what vaporiser you had though?
I wouldn't have thought the lag was present in the first place on a 2.5... Albs' one is fine and, looking at the setup as I did in the past, it shouldn't be :-X ::)
Magic jet injectors are fine unless you get the slightest trace of dirty fuel and then the can gum up... Done a lot of research ::)
The Red Voltec ones should be up to it... I've seen them running more powerful cars with no issues ;) Just a case of eliminating the lag... Seems to be down to injector timings at changeover because the petrol timings spike downwards (which the LPG ones copy ;)) causing the LPG pressure to rise (overshoot) and then on the next injection cycle inject too much gas.
We think a different vaporiser may resolve it as the ones in our original kits were a bit slow to react... Timing processor is another possibility and would probably improve economy a little :-/
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Will be interested in the outcome :y
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i have just swapped out the voltec injectors for magic jet on my caddy and the car is transformed.i was running 3.2 dia jets with the voltec, im down to 2.5 on the "magic's"and its still complaining that the jets are too large.ps i am already running a rl90 vapouriser as the original was crap!! :y
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I must say, Will, I certainly found the magic jet's better...
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My only concern with them is the risk of gumming :-/ :-/
Going to try the reducer first, and possibly the timing processor, and see where we go from there. At the end of the day, I've not had to pay any extra for anything I've tried so far :y
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I guess we will have to wait and see if the new injectors supplied make a difference.
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I guess we will have to wait and see if the new injectors supplied make a difference.
I think it'll be the vaporiser that makes a bigger difference ;)
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So what jet size are we drilling with these current injecters? Might open the box tomorrow. :o
;)
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So what jet size are we drilling with these current injecters? Might open the box tomorrow. :o
;)
When you open the box, can you check if he's put in a diagnostic lead for connecting to lappy, as I don't have one with mine... ...and I can't get hold of him again to discuss or order my 80l tank
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Finally have got miggy back on the road with manifold nozzles done, Teilo posted a pair of nozzles and they came as promised late Wed so managed to get the manifold and associated parts back by Thurs evening, so did my east coast trip yesterday. What a hard job I had getting the manifold off and worse still back in position,the gap between the 2 cam covers was very very tight. Until the equaliser or is it vapouriser issue is sorted I'm gong to start to install the tank.
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I ordered a diagnostic lead with my order,happy for you to borrow it Jamie :y
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So what jet size are we drilling with these current injecters? Might open the box tomorrow. :o
;)
When you open the box, can you check if he's put in a diagnostic lead for connecting to lappy, as I don't have one with mine... ...and I can't get hold of him again to discuss or order my 80l tank
Will do, but do you not have one for mv6? Or is different?
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So what jet size are we drilling with these current injecters? Might open the box tomorrow. :o
;)
When you open the box, can you check if he's put in a diagnostic lead for connecting to lappy, as I don't have one with mine... ...and I can't get hold of him again to discuss or order my 80l tank
Will do, but do you not have one for mv6? Or is different?
Same lead... I'll have to check on that as I was sure that shoul be in the kit... The software is :-/
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Have no diagnostic lead.
Do have lead to tank.
No red book although I still have the old one, so no issue tbh.
200 kw engine on v6 shows 2.4 mm jet size. And 1.0 bar at 1500 rpm.
So 2.5 diameter for 3.2? 218 bhp is it?
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Sorry, red book replaced by proper booklet. :y
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Have no diagnostic lead.
Do have lead to tank.
No red book although I still have the old one, so no issue tbh.
200 kw engine on v6 shows 2.4 mm jet size. And 1.0 bar at 1500 rpm.
So 2.5 diameter for 3.2? 218 bhp is it?
One for solenoid, or just for gauge?
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Have no diagnostic lead.
Do have lead to tank.
No red book although I still have the old one, so no issue tbh.
200 kw engine on v6 shows 2.4 mm jet size. And 1.0 bar at 1500 rpm.
So 2.5 diameter for 3.2? 218 bhp is it?
One for solenoid, or just for gauge?
Defo gauge. Isn't there a spare wire in it for the solenoid? Iirc.?
Don't remember any extra wiring other than that, but then you know what my memory's like. :-/
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Have no diagnostic lead.
Do have lead to tank.
No red book although I still have the old one, so no issue tbh.
200 kw engine on v6 shows 2.4 mm jet size. And 1.0 bar at 1500 rpm.
So 2.5 diameter for 3.2? 218 bhp is it?
One for solenoid, or just for gauge?
Defo gauge. Isn't there a spare wire in it for the solenoid? Iirc.?
Don't remember any extra wiring other than that, but then you know what my memory's like. :-/
Its a hall sensor gauge, thus needs all 3 wires?
Could ground it at tank end, and steal ground wire, but looks a bit feeble for solenoid.
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Have no diagnostic lead.
Do have lead to tank.
No red book although I still have the old one, so no issue tbh.
200 kw engine on v6 shows 2.4 mm jet size. And 1.0 bar at 1500 rpm.
So 2.5 diameter for 3.2? 218 bhp is it?
One for solenoid, or just for gauge?
Defo gauge. Isn't there a spare wire in it for the solenoid? Iirc.?
Don't remember any extra wiring other than that, but then you know what my memory's like. :-/
Its a hall sensor gauge, thus needs all 3 wires?
Could ground it at tank end, and steal ground wire, but looks a bit feeble for solenoid.
On certifying, bloke noted tank end was not earthed on gay omega, so i guess thats what i did last time...? I guess Kev Or LD, sorry, LF can confirm.
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Have no diagnostic lead.
Do have lead to tank.
No red book although I still have the old one, so no issue tbh.
200 kw engine on v6 shows 2.4 mm jet size. And 1.0 bar at 1500 rpm.
So 2.5 diameter for 3.2? 218 bhp is it?
One for solenoid, or just for gauge?
Defo gauge. Isn't there a spare wire in it for the solenoid? Iirc.?
Don't remember any extra wiring other than that, but then you know what my memory's like. :-/
Its a hall sensor gauge, thus needs all 3 wires?
Could ground it at tank end, and steal ground wire, but looks a bit feeble for solenoid.
On certifying, bloke noted tank end was not earthed on gay omega, so i guess thats what i did last time...? I guess Kev Or LD, sorry, LF can confirm.
Most level sensors are 2 core (signal and ground ;)) even though the cable supplied will likely be 3 core. I don't think earthing the tank is actually in COP 11 but would make sense I suppose :-/
Personally I'd probably run a second cable for the solenoid, especially as you're both going to have 2 vent pipes anyway :y
He did say that those injectors flow slightly better so I'd start at 2.5 (max)... Not exactly a faff to go bigger if needed ;)
Biggest problem is going to be space for the reducer as it is bigger (smaller Diameter, I think, but thicker) than the previous ones :-/
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Have no diagnostic lead.
Do have lead to tank.
No red book although I still have the old one, so no issue tbh.
200 kw engine on v6 shows 2.4 mm jet size. And 1.0 bar at 1500 rpm.
So 2.5 diameter for 3.2? 218 bhp is it?
One for solenoid, or just for gauge?
Defo gauge. Isn't there a spare wire in it for the solenoid? Iirc.?
Don't remember any extra wiring other than that, but then you know what my memory's like. :-/
Its a hall sensor gauge, thus needs all 3 wires?
Could ground it at tank end, and steal ground wire, but looks a bit feeble for solenoid.
On certifying, bloke noted tank end was not earthed on gay omega, so i guess thats what i did last time...? I guess Kev Or LD, sorry, LF can confirm.
Most level sensors are 2 core (signal and ground ;)) even though the cable supplied will likely be 3 core. I don't think earthing the tank is actually in COP 11 but would make sense I suppose :-/
Personally I'd probably run a second cable for the solenoid, especially as you're both going to have 2 vent pipes anyway :y
He did say that those injectors flow slightly better so I'd start at 2.5 (max)... Not exactly a faff to go bigger if needed ;)
Biggest problem is going to be space for the reducer as it is bigger (smaller Diameter, I think, but thicker) than the previous ones :-/
Ah yes, 4 hole will be new to me.
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So 80 litre....are we maximising capacity between turrets with that size? But still keeping some through space capability?
In other words is there a 90 litre to take up all the width in the boot between turrets and still give trough space over the top? Wider for same hight, so to speak....? :-/
What capacity does 80l give? Less range than the petrol tank in effect?
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So 80 litre....are we maximising capacity between turrets with that size? But still keeping some through space capability?
In other words is there a 90 litre to take up all the width in the boot between turrets and still give trough space over the top? Wider for same hight, so to speak....? :-/
What capacity does 80l give? Less range than the petrol tank in effect?
80L is what Kevin and Entwood have. leaves a little space at the ends, useful to keep a few essentials :y There is a 360dia 90L tank but it doesn't quite sit between the turrets so leaves a bigger gap between it and the seats.
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So 80 litre....are we maximising capacity between turrets with that size? But still keeping some through space capability?
In other words is there a 90 litre to take up all the width in the boot between turrets and still give trough space over the top? Wider for same hight, so to speak....? :-/
What capacity does 80l give? Less range than the petrol tank in effect?
80L is what Kevin and Entwood have. leaves a little space at the ends, useful to keep a few essentials :y There is a 360dia 90L tank but it doesn't quite sit between the turrets so leaves a bigger gap between it and the seats.
This is my 90L tank...
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/803897/Omega/LPG/FinalBits/DSC00701.JPG)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/803897/Omega/LPG/FinalBits/DSC00699.JPG)
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So 80 litre....are we maximising capacity between turrets with that size? But still keeping some through space capability?
In other words is there a 90 litre to take up all the width in the boot between turrets and still give trough space over the top? Wider for same hight, so to speak....? :-/
What capacity does 80l give? Less range than the petrol tank in effect?
With a Bose shelf, there isn't much scope for putting long items through.
I am toying with mounting my bose amp near the RH speaker, and removing the plastic shelf on the Elite. On the MV6, that wasted space in the shelf is overwise used. This should give similar space to Kevin Wood's boot, with the exception the Bose bass speakers do protrude downwards.
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How tough are those plastic boxs on the tank? I mean stuff sliding about in the boot could brake that by the looks?
Can i have a metal box please Dad ? :)
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What capacity does 80l give? Less range than the petrol tank in effect?
Mine fills to 65l, as expected. This equates to approx 14.5 gallons.
Now, as its a criminal sin to run on petrol, I never run dry, but I average 19.5mpg, so 19.5mpg x 14.5gln = 282.75 range (which fits in with when I have run out).
Not taking into account the cost of carrying the extra weight, a 90l will give another 8l, so 34 extra miles at my mpg. 100l would give a further 34miles.
So to get similar range (350 seems to be a ballpark range from a 3/3.2 on petrol (though probably driven easier than LPG cars ::))) needs 100l tank (which fills to 80l, as LPG tanks can only be filled to 80% capacity)
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How tough are those plastic boxs on the tank? I mean stuff sliding about in the boot could brake that by the looks?
Can i have a metal box please Dad ? :)
The 4 hole ones appear to come with a metal cover over the valvegear. No sure if this is always the case, or just coincidence of the ones I've seen.
My MV6 has a plastic box. If I'm honest, I don't find it a problem, by I reckon being too heavy handed could damage it,
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What capacity does 80l give? Less range than the petrol tank in effect?
Mine fills to 65l, as expected. This equates to approx 14.5 gallons.
Now, as its a criminal sin to run on petrol, I never run dry, but I average 19.5mpg, so 19.5mpg x 14.5gln = 282.75 range (which fits in with when I have run out).
Not taking into account the cost of carrying the extra weight, a 90l will give another 8l, so 34 extra miles at my mpg. 100l would give a further 34miles.
So to get similar range (350 seems to be a ballpark range from a 3/3.2 on petrol (though probably driven easier than LPG cars ::))) needs 100l tank (which fills to 80l, as LPG tanks can only be filled to 80% capacity)
Never had 300 miles out of a tank on my commute :-? It probably would do 320 but it would run dry so need to fill up.
So 280 miles at your mpg would give 6 return trips to work. So should last a week for me. Another 68 miles would give another 3 one way trips for me. So woukd fill up at the weekend anyway perhaps. :-/
So if i went cylinder, 80l would do. That bose shelf will have to go though.
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How tough are those plastic boxs on the tank? I mean stuff sliding about in the boot could brake that by the looks?
Can i have a metal box please Dad ? :)
The 4 hole ones appear to come with a metal cover over the valvegear. No sure if this is always the case, or just coincidence of the ones I've seen.
My MV6 has a plastic box. If I'm honest, I don't find it a problem, by I reckon being too heavy handed could damage it,
you'd surely never be heavy handed though ::)
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Never had 300 miles out of a tank on my commute :-? It probably would do 320 but it would run dry so need to fill up.
So 280 miles at your mpg would give 6 return trips to work. So should last a week for me. Another 68 miles would give another 3 one way trips for me. So woukd fill up at the weekend anyway perhaps. :-/
So if i went cylinder, 80l would do. That bose shelf will have to go though.
Haven't used the Elite enough to get a decent record of range, but the MV6 used to manage between 340 - 360 before the botty clenching started about fuel gauge position, and would normally take 67-70l. On a (sedate - constant 85mph) run, I have had 500m from a tank in the MV6 on petrol.
I'm not convinced that the 3.2 manages same MPG was the 3.0.
You know what you get on LPG (from your previous car), so work on 65l (80l tank), 73l (90l tank) and 80l (100l tank)
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What capacity does 80l give? Less range than the petrol tank in effect?
Mine fills to 65l, as expected. This equates to approx 14.5 gallons.
Now, as its a criminal sin to run on petrol, I never run dry, but I average 19.5mpg, so 19.5mpg x 14.5gln = 282.75 range (which fits in with when I have run out).
Not taking into account the cost of carrying the extra weight, a 90l will give another 8l, so 34 extra miles at my mpg. 100l would give a further 34miles.
So to get similar range (350 seems to be a ballpark range from a 3/3.2 on petrol (though probably driven easier than LPG cars ::))) needs 100l tank (which fills to 80l, as LPG tanks can only be filled to 80% capacity)
Never had 300 miles out of a tank on my commute :-? It probably would do 320 but it would run dry so need to fill up.
So 280 miles at your mpg would give 6 return trips to work. So should last a week for me. Another 68 miles would give another 3 one way trips for me. So woukd fill up at the weekend anyway perhaps. :-/
So if i went cylinder, 80l would do. That bose shelf will have to go though.
80L will fit under the Bose shelf no problems... 100L will fit under it too, although for ease of fitting you'd need to pull it out and then re-fit. 80L, 360mm Dia tanks, Teilo reckons he can be competitive ;)
AFAIK all 4 hole tanks have the metal Gas tight box like mine (and KW's) and all single hole tanks end up with a plastic effort ;)
80L tank frame lines up nicely with the Chassis rails whereas a 100L will need lots of measurement ;)
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Additional thought ... I changed the rear shockers with the tank in situ .. and only JUST enough room to wield the tools ... I'd not like to have tried it if the tank was any tighter to the turrets .. :(
I know the shocks aren't changed often .. but perhaps worth a thought ??
:)
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Additional thought ... I changed the rear shockers with the tank in situ .. and only JUST enough room to wield the tools ... I'd not like to have tried it if the tank was any tighter to the turrets .. :(
I know the shocks aren't changed often .. but perhaps worth a thought ??
:)
The thought had crossed my mind but figure that "Where there's a will there's a way" ;D
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Haven't used the Elite enough to get a decent record of range, but the MV6 used to manage between 340 - 360 before the botty clenching started about fuel gauge position, and would normally take 67-70l. On a (sedate - constant 85mph) run, I have had 500m from a tank in the MV6 on petrol.
Damn it would be nice if (my) 3.2 did that - it'd be positively frugal! ~250 till the light is on with my daily commute, and ~375 on a 70mph motorway run.
I really should look into that ;D (no, I didn't manage to find my diag tool this weekend, Chris, before you ask ;D)
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Haven't used the Elite enough to get a decent record of range, but the MV6 used to manage between 340 - 360 before the botty clenching started about fuel gauge position, and would normally take 67-70l. On a (sedate - constant 85mph) run, I have had 500m from a tank in the MV6 on petrol.
Damn it would be nice if (my) 3.2 did that - it'd be positively frugal! ~250 till the light is on with my daily commute, and ~375 on a 70mph motorway run.
I really should look into that ;D (no, I didn't manage to find my diag tool this weekend, Chris, before you ask ;D)
Same sort of figures I get .... don't know how TB gets as much as he does ... although the MV6 is a 3 ltr MFL I think .. perhaps the 3.2 FL has different weight & aerodynamics ?? :(
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Haven't used the Elite enough to get a decent record of range, but the MV6 used to manage between 340 - 360 before the botty clenching started about fuel gauge position, and would normally take 67-70l. On a (sedate - constant 85mph) run, I have had 500m from a tank in the MV6 on petrol.
Damn it would be nice if (my) 3.2 did that - it'd be positively frugal! ~250 till the light is on with my daily commute, and ~375 on a 70mph motorway run.
I really should look into that ;D (no, I didn't manage to find my diag tool this weekend, Chris, before you ask ;D)
Same sort of figures I get .... don't know how TB gets as much as he does ... although the MV6 is a 3 ltr MFL I think .. perhaps the 3.2 FL has different weight & aerodynamics ?? :(
Interesting... When I picked mine up from St Helens I drove home at an indicated 70mph (235 miles) and the confuser said "Range 252"... Think I did slightly more than that :-/
Mine managed 380 miles/tank on LPG driving down and back from Italy with cruise set somewhere between an indicated 85mph and somewhere into 3 figures :-X ::)
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Haven't used the Elite enough to get a decent record of range, but the MV6 used to manage between 340 - 360 before the botty clenching started about fuel gauge position, and would normally take 67-70l. On a (sedate - constant 85mph) run, I have had 500m from a tank in the MV6 on petrol.
Damn it would be nice if (my) 3.2 did that - it'd be positively frugal! ~250 till the light is on with my daily commute, and ~375 on a 70mph motorway run.
I really should look into that ;D (no, I didn't manage to find my diag tool this weekend, Chris, before you ask ;D)
Same sort of figures I get .... don't know how TB gets as much as he does ... although the MV6 is a 3 ltr MFL I think .. perhaps the 3.2 FL has different weight & aerodynamics ?? :(
I thought TB had a reputation for driving everywhere like he was taking part in LeMans .. maybe it's all smoke and mirrors and really he has half a brick under the accelerator pedal and drives like he's driving miss daisy? ;)
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Haven't used the Elite enough to get a decent record of range, but the MV6 used to manage between 340 - 360 before the botty clenching started about fuel gauge position, and would normally take 67-70l. On a (sedate - constant 85mph) run, I have had 500m from a tank in the MV6 on petrol.
Damn it would be nice if (my) 3.2 did that - it'd be positively frugal! ~250 till the light is on with my daily commute, and ~375 on a 70mph motorway run.
I really should look into that ;D (no, I didn't manage to find my diag tool this weekend, Chris, before you ask ;D)
Same sort of figures I get .... don't know how TB gets as much as he does ... although the MV6 is a 3 ltr MFL I think .. perhaps the 3.2 FL has different weight & aerodynamics ?? :(
I thought TB had a reputation for driving everywhere like he was taking part in LeMans .. maybe it's all smoke and mirrors and really he has half a brick under the accelerator pedal and drives like he's driving miss daisy? ;)
I can assure you his reputation is well earned ;) ;)
But, by a steady cruise I expect he means straight out of fuel station onto motorway with the cruise set for the duration of the tank ;)
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TB works in IT, like most things electronic its either on or off. Same goes when he applies the throttle and brakes, either on or off, nothing in the middle ::) ;D
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TB works in IT, like most things electronic its either on or off. Same goes when he applies the throttle and brakes, either on or off, nothing in the middle ::) ;D
;D
I work with a guy like that - the only trouble is he treats the steering wheel the same way! Every roundabout becomes 'square' - it's like sitting in a car being driven with a digital games console joypad :o
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Haven't used the Elite enough to get a decent record of range, but the MV6 used to manage between 340 - 360 before the botty clenching started about fuel gauge position, and would normally take 67-70l. On a (sedate - constant 85mph) run, I have had 500m from a tank in the MV6 on petrol.
Damn it would be nice if (my) 3.2 did that - it'd be positively frugal! ~250 till the light is on with my daily commute, and ~375 on a 70mph motorway run.
I really should look into that ;D (no, I didn't manage to find my diag tool this weekend, Chris, before you ask ;D)
Same sort of figures I get .... don't know how TB gets as much as he does ... although the MV6 is a 3 ltr MFL I think .. perhaps the 3.2 FL has different weight & aerodynamics ?? :(
Day to day, on petrol, the 3.0l auto MV6 used to manage around 24-26mpg over a tank on my normal commute. Remember, thats on petrol.
The 500m to a tank was when I used to do those French trips, and we used the autoroutes, thus sat at a shade over 130kph all the way.
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TB works in IT, like most things electronic its either on or off. Same goes when he applies the throttle and brakes, either on or off, nothing in the middle ::) ;D
;D
I work with a guy like that - the only trouble is he treats the steering wheel the same way! Every roundabout becomes 'square' - it's like sitting in a car being driven with a digital games console joypad :o
Depends if you are trying to provoke an ass wiggle ::)
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TB works in IT, like most things electronic its either on or off. Same goes when he applies the throttle and brakes, either on or off, nothing in the middle ::) ;D
;D
I work with a guy like that - the only trouble is he treats the steering wheel the same way! Every roundabout becomes 'square' - it's like sitting in a car being driven with a digital games console joypad :o
Depends if you are trying to provoke an ass wiggle ::)
Believe me, if this guy got the ass of his Civic to wiggle he'd end up in the nearest hedge ;D I've passengered with some interesting drivers, but he is something else!
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Really can't decide you know. Cylinder or Toroidal?
If there was a bigger Toroidal that would fit I,d go that route again defo.
Might have to visit Tinley and physically try some for fit. Sigh....
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I think the largest capacity toroidal is 77L (61L useable) which will fit in my spare wheel well, it is the deepest within the 65cm dia range,which is the width of the wheel well. It does mean I will have to build up the floor.Must say Chris I wish I could have a greater range. On the good side theres a lpg station within 2 mls of home,and a larger capacity would mean more weight to lug around.
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Sorry should have said this an upright in a saloon.
Iirc old car might have had a 650x250 upright. Def 60 litre anyway. No room for extra diameter, so width would be no more than 270 if bigger at all. So that would give 70 litre gross, giveing 56 litres usable.... Bah, rubbish! :(
Can the fill level be fiddled? I reckon 63 litres in a 70 is fine. ::). :-X
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correct Chris, I didnt realise you want the toroidal on a vertical mount the one I have for horizontal mount is a centre filled 4 hole at 650 dia by 270 high and quoted 77L capacity (61L usable) I would imagine the useable figure would change for an upright mount,not knowing the reason we can't make use of the full fill capacity of the tanks at the working pressures involved I wouldn't go beyond the safety margin if that is what is
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correct Chris, I didnt realise you want the toroidal on a vertical mount the one I have for horizontal mount is a centre filled 4 hole at 650 dia by 270 high and quoted 77L capacity (61L usable) I would imagine the useable figure would change for an upright mount,not knowing the reason we can't make use of the full fill capacity of the tanks at the working pressures involved I wouldn't go beyond the safety margin if that is what is
That's exactly what it is. It's to ensure the tank always has some "spare" volume containing only vapour (as opposed to liquid).
If the tank were to be filled when cold (to 80%, say) then heated (in the sun during the day, for example), the liquid would expand to take up a greater volume within the tank.
Provided there is some volume containing only vapour, all that will happen is that the pressure will rise slightly, and a little of the vapour will condense to liquid, reducing its' volume, making space for the larger volume of liquid without greatly increasing the pressure in the tank.
This balance of liquid and vapour in the tank keeps the pressure more or less constant (but still temperature dependant) regardless of the volume of liquid. It's a bit like the boiler of a steam engine. You have a volume of liquid that's well above its' boiling point at atmospheric pressure, kept liquid by the pressure of vapour with which it shares its' surroundings.
If you fill a tank to more than 80% you are left with a smaller "buffer" of vapour so the tank can cope with less heating before you use up all the available volume.
Once the vapour volume gets too small the increasing volume of liquid cannot be accommodated so the pressure will rise much more markedly if the tank gets hot, and it may cause the pressure relief valve to vent.
80% is probably a pretty generous margin for our climate, where the temperature differences aren't great. I believe Calor gas cylinders are filled to 87%.
The problem is, the filling cutoff is something that should be tested during certification of an install, so tampering with the valve to get a higher fill level might give you a headache. Then again, unless the guy certifying the install does the "first fill" he's unlikely to notice, I suppose. ::)
Kevin
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I over-fill mine slightly, as I over did it slightly when I rotated the tank. From dry I can get 74L in my 90L tank which is 82%
However I always fill up at High Wycombe which is at least 25 miles from my flat or 50 miles from home. So by the time I get to either I've already burnt off that extra 2%
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Ooooo,thank you Kevin, some facts that if haveing lpg are very much in users interest to learn and know , and thereby stick to those safety margins.Im about to start installing the tank in my estate today and Lazy tinker mentioned the forum is short of a "how to" for estates so I'll do my best to sort the pics for one as I go and then with the help of a friend, who works for a computer firm post them up :y