Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Marks DTM Calib on 22 March 2011, 08:05:50
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Hmmm, not sure what section to put this in but hey, here goes.
As some may know, I have a vintage Fordson Dexta tractor (1959) which I am restoring. This first job on this is an engine rebuild.
Now the Dexta uses a 2.5 litre 3 cylinder Perkins derived engine (although Fordson cast the block and head)
So, last year the engine (which is structual on this tractor!) was removed, stripped down and sent to the machine shop for new liners (bored and honed plus the block decked) and a crank re-grind.
This took some time (in order go get the best price) but, its now back and I need to put it all together.
So, here it is, crank starting to be fitted.
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/DSC00053.jpg)
The no 4 main bearing cap is currently at work being machined as in mid 1959 they changed the thrust bearing design (mine is one of the first 12 months of production it would seem) and they old type is not available!. To fix this requires two grooves machining to accept the relocated tabs which stop the thrust bearing spinning.
I pressed new little end bushes in last night and have ordered (bloody expensive) a reamer so I can ream my little ends out (steady now).
And here is the buisness end, no belts or chains here!
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/DSC00054.jpg)
I do have a small issue as there is a crack in the block on a coolant passage (common) which needs grinding out and filling with liquid metal.
Probably about another 4-6 weeks work to get it back together (takes a while as lots of old bits to clean!).
I should add, this thing is HEAVY. The block alone I can just lift and the sump is 50kg!
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I'll look forward to reading more about this - very enjoyable, I like this sort of thing.
Why (and how) is the engine structural to the machine?
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I'll look forward to reading more about this - very enjoyable, I like this sort of thing.
Why (and how) is the engine structural to the machine?
Its just part of the design of this type of tractor, there is no chassis, the structure is the engine (wheels bolted to the front), gearbox and rear axle.....no chassis rails or anything!
Hence the sump is huge, heavy and thick as its taking the full weight of the tractor.
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I love how you spend your spare time Master :y
Look forward to seeing it develop ;)
Instead of using liquid metal, may I suggest Jammie with his Ali Mig Welder! ;D
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Was looking at this at the weekend, its one hell of a lump...
as is the other half of the tractor!
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Was looking at this at the weekend, its one hell of a lump...
as is the other half of the tractor!
Although small compared to the six cylinder units I have to do next! :y
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I'll look forward to reading more about this - very enjoyable, I like this sort of thing.
Why (and how) is the engine structural to the machine?
Its just part of the deisnn of this type of tractor, there is no chassis, the structure is the engine (wheels bolted to the front), gearbox and rear axle.....no chassis rails or anything!
Hence the sump is huge, heavy and thick as its taking the full weight of the tractor.
Certainly sounds to have been an innovative design although I'd have thought that the need for a full chassis was a given.
Was it a success in practice?
I'll also be interested to see more pics as you progress. 8-) :y
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I'll look forward to reading more about this - very enjoyable, I like this sort of thing.
Why (and how) is the engine structural to the machine?
Its just part of the deisnn of this type of tractor, there is no chassis, the structure is the engine (wheels bolted to the front), gearbox and rear axle.....no chassis rails or anything!
Hence the sump is huge, heavy and thick as its taking the full weight of the tractor.
Certainly sounds to have been an innovative design although I'd have thought that the need for a full chassis was a given.
Was it a success in practice?
I'll also be interested to see more pics as you progress. 8-) :y
Yes, its not a huge tractor but is recognised as one of the best ones of its time. Hopefuly (given time) it will look like this:
(http://www.farmingmachines.co.uk/uploads/M03681_1.jpg)
You can see from that pic that there are no chassis rails. :y
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I'll look forward to reading more about this - very enjoyable, I like this sort of thing.
Why (and how) is the engine structural to the machine?
Its just part of the deisnn of this type of tractor, there is no chassis, the structure is the engine (wheels bolted to the front), gearbox and rear axle.....no chassis rails or anything!
Hence the sump is huge, heavy and thick as its taking the full weight of the tractor.
Certainly sounds to have been an innovative design although I'd have thought that the need for a full chassis was a given.
Was it a success in practice?
I'll also be interested to see more pics as you progress. 8-) :y
Yes, its not a huge tractor but is recognised as one of the best ones of its time. Hopefuly (given time) it will look like this:
http://www.farmingmachines.co.uk/uploads/M03681_1.jpg
You can see from that pic that there are no chassis rails. :y
Aah, it's obvious from that where the need for such a substantial engine arrangement rises. ;D
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the dexta was & still is a fantastic little tractor.
ive had a fordson standard (1940)
& a ferguson tea20 (1962) fitted with a standard vanguard engine.
also ran a massey35 with front loader for a while.
hope the re-build goes well mark. :y
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this brings back fond memories,my father had a super dexta back in the early 60's,spent many an hour riding around on that sitting on his lap doing the steering :y
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One of my Uncles and his son love John Deere tractors - my Uncles has a V6
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Nice pictures :)
MDTM, could you do me a strange favour? Measure (roughly) how long the 'fingers' on your engine stand are (or can spread at max spread)?
I bought a Sealey ES550 only to find that it's fingers don't go nearly wide enough to reach the bellhousing bolt holes on the 390 (it has a huge bellhousing, admittedly) and apparently the next size up Sealey stand is even smaller :-/ I'm struggling to find one that'll reach.
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Nice pictures :)
MDTM, could you do me a strange favour? Measure (roughly) how long the 'fingers' on your engine stand are (or can spread at max spread)?
I bought a Sealey ES550 only to find that it's fingers don't go nearly wide enough to reach the bellhousing bolt holes on the 390 (it has a huge bellhousing, admittedly) and apparently the next size up Sealey stand is even smaller :-/ I'm struggling to find one that'll reach.
I will try
I have an ES350 (Clarke one but its exactly the same and from the same factory) and I had the opposite problem as I have no bell housing adaptor plate fitted at the moment so its a bit narrow!
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nice work that - it's maybe only 18months since I rebuilt a 4-cylinder version of same engine, again for a tractor.
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Nice pictures :)
MDTM, could you do me a strange favour? Measure (roughly) how long the 'fingers' on your engine stand are (or can spread at max spread)?
I bought a Sealey ES550 only to find that it's fingers don't go nearly wide enough to reach the bellhousing bolt holes on the 390 (it has a huge bellhousing, admittedly) and apparently the next size up Sealey stand is even smaller :-/ I'm struggling to find one that'll reach.
I will try
I have an ES350 (Clarke one but its exactly the same and from the same factory) and I had the opposite problem as I have no bell housing adaptor plate fitted at the moment so its a bit narrow!
Cheers :) The length of a 'finger' and the width between the widest point of the mounting slots on the back plate would be perfect actually - then I can just compare that to mine :)
Failing that I suppose I'll just have to get some longer fingers made up and hope it doesn't all collapse under the weight ;D (Mind, that tractor engine must weigh at least what the 390 does? About 350Kg?)
I couldn't quite believe the size of the bellhousing on the 390 though - biggest flywheel I've ever seen!
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Its about 300Kg without the flywheel and adaptor plate (which wont be fitted until its suspended from a crane shortly before mating to the gearbox)
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Cool - at least I know (if necessary) the 'littler' engine stand will hold the weight, then :)
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Ok, the distance between the hole centres on the fingers is 115mm and max distance the slots will set to is 185mm
So max width would be 415mm.
A few more pics here:
The machined main bearing cap with the thrust bearing placed in position:
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/DSC00055.jpg)
And fitted:
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/DSC00057-1.jpg)
I also fitted the crank sprocket (having found the missing Woodruff key) and the crank seal (which was a right pain to do)
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Sadly, with a rather poor 2G mobile internet connection, I can't see the pics, but look forward to read this thread at the weekend, when I rejoin civilisation :y
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nice work that - it's maybe only 18months since I rebuilt a 4-cylinder version of same engine, again for a tractor.
Next job is a set of 6 cylinder DMU engines and some liner seals on a big Sulzer
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O oh, tractor party... :D. ;)
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Ok, the distance between the hole centres on the fingers is 115mm and max distance the slots will set to is 185mm
Thanks for that :) Same width as mine, sadly :( Well, guess I just have to manufacture something!
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nice work that - it's maybe only 18months since I rebuilt a 4-cylinder version of same engine, again for a tractor.
Next job is a set of 6 cylinder DMU engines and some liner seals on a big Sulzer
AEC per chance ::)
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interesting thread with piccies :y :y
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I see you're 'ploughing' on with this job then Mark ;)
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I hope to ream my little end tonight ready for fitting the pistons ::)
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I hope to ream my little end tonight ready for fitting the pistons ::)
Would it be excessive to ask for some pics of this. ;D ;D :y
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I hope to ream my little end tonight ready for fitting the pistons ::)
Would it be excessive to ask for some pics of this. ;D ;D :y
Of course, what ever floats your boat. ;D
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nice work that - it's maybe only 18months since I rebuilt a 4-cylinder version of same engine, again for a tractor.
Next job is a set of 6 cylinder DMU engines and some liner seals on a big Sulzer
Watch out for excessive crankshaft end float on those.
'Twas not unknown for the thrusts to drop out from the centre main bearing.
;)
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I hope to ream my little end tonight ready for fitting the pistons ::)
Is Daz helping? ;D
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Why have you got a tractor Mark?
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Why have you got a tractor Mark?
A good question!
Because:
They are quite interesting (engine, gearbox, hydraulics etc)
They dont have a lot of body work to rot!
I quite fancied one! ;D :y
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Why have you got a tractor Mark?
A good question!
Because:
They are quite interesting (engine, gearbox, hydraulics etc)
They dont have a lot of body work to rot!
I quite fancied one! ;D :y
...and he's a country bumpkin at heart..... :D
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I happened across this while researching the project, thought you might like it ;)
http://www.jrv8.co.uk/pics.php?image=fergie_v8_3_lg.jpg
(Three more pics if you click 'back' to get to the main gallery)
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I happened across this while researching the project, thought you might like it ;)
http://www.jrv8.co.uk/pics.php?image=fergie_v8_3_lg.jpg
(Three more pics if you click 'back' to get to the main gallery)
Lol, this is one of my favourites :y
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lmE17Dg23w[/media]
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I happened across this while researching the project, thought you might like it ;)
http://www.jrv8.co.uk/pics.php?image=fergie_v8_3_lg.jpg
(Three more pics if you click 'back' to get to the main gallery)
Lol, this is one of my favourites :y
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lmE17Dg23w[/media]
:o :o :o :o ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
what engine is inside .. a rocket ;D ;D ;D :y :y
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Why have you got a tractor Mark?
A good question!
Because:
They are quite interesting (engine, gearbox, hydraulics etc)
They dont have a lot of body work to rot!
I quite fancied one! ;D :y
The owner of the site where I take my cars for MOT has quite a collection of various tractors ...... old & not quite as old. ;) ;)
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I happened across this while researching the project, thought you might like it ;)
http://www.jrv8.co.uk/pics.php?image=fergie_v8_3_lg.jpg
(Three more pics if you click 'back' to get to the main gallery)
Lol, this is one of my favourites :y
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lmE17Dg23w[/media]
:o :o :o :o ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
what engine is inside .. a rocket ;D ;D ;D :y :y
The engine is a Ford V6, the tractor is Dexta....and thats the worry as the Dexta has no chassis and requires a VERY solid engine....
Its quick because the standard diesel revs to 2200rpm....the V6 will do three time that so top speed is much higher :y
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I happened across this while researching the project, thought you might like it ;)
http://www.jrv8.co.uk/pics.php?image=fergie_v8_3_lg.jpg
(Three more pics if you click 'back' to get to the main gallery)
Lol, this is one of my favourites :y
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lmE17Dg23w[/media]
:o :o :o :o ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
what engine is inside .. a rocket ;D ;D ;D :y :y
The engine is a Ford V6, the tractor is Dexta....and thats the worry as the Dexta has no chassis and requires a VERY solid engine....
Its quick because the standard diesel revs to 2200rpm....the V6 will do three time that so top speed is much higher :y
amazing.. never seen such a fast tractor!!!
no doubt all the villagers jaws drop down if I pass like this (mine did ;D) ;D ;D ;D
it was nearly overtaking the other cars ;D
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I have clocked a JCB tractor at 50mph while following it!
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A few more hours on the engine.
Three pistons fitted (i.e. all of them!)
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/DSC00058.jpg)
Which were actualy a pain in the arse to do as they have 5 sets of rings with two of them being laminated sets (i.e. 4+ small rings!)!
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And the business end!
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/DSC00059.jpg)
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That's looking very well indeed. 8-) :y
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good work mark, coming alond nicely. :y
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looks like brand new engine :y
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Looks really impressive Mr DTM :y. I suspect Mrs DTM will be pleased when its finished and out of her garage :P
But the engine is all wrong. It needs to be a single cylinder diesel made by Lister for fitting in a little yellow run-around ;D
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Trial fit of the cylinder head (as its new).
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/DSC00060-1.jpg)
Lots of cleaning tonight, cylinder heads studs, water pump, fan, class 47 Run-Oil-Pressure switch etc etc
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Ok, head fitted:
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/DSC00063-1.jpg)
With the rocker cover off (i just place it on to protect the internals)
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/DSC00064-2.jpg)
And a bit of a pain this one......trying to get loads of paint on this bit as the raised section is the 'A' material!
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/DSC00065.jpg)
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very visible that there is considerable effort spent.. good one Mark :y :y
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Good progress, other non-stated reasons for ownership:
1. Mark wakes early due to offspring and doesnt see why other residents of the close should remain asleep.
2. He wants to out-perform caravan owners in the queue creating stakes.
On the big-end caps there was a domed bit....is that solid metal for balancing or is it hollow for a sludge trap?
There is something wrong under the rocker cover, you can clearly see the rocker arms. Have you forgotten to install the sound-deadening glutinous black gooey stuff?
Otherwise known as :
[size=20]The Black Death[/size]
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Looks like its getting there :y
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Some more progress.
Its slowly turning blue
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/DSC00078.jpg)
Injector pump fitted, timed up and the feed pipes fitted.
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/DSC00079.jpg)