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Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: feeutfo on 31 May 2011, 06:14:15

Title: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: feeutfo on 31 May 2011, 06:14:15
Anyone that can post a link for the pc software while I toddle off to work? Going to need it later hopefully.
Ta.
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: feeutfo on 31 May 2011, 06:41:51
And are we using the plus or premium ecu? Save me groveling on the floor later.
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: Lazydocker on 31 May 2011, 07:27:13
Running the plus ECU. I'll look for the working link when I can get at my laptop ;)
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: PhilRich on 31 May 2011, 08:37:50
Software for 300+ :

http://www.ac.com.pl/public/pubonline/cms/files/Programy-i-instrukcje-obslugi/pl/Stag%20300%20plus/SetupAcGasSynchro-6_0_0_37.exe

Software for 300 Premium :

http://www.ac.com.pl/public/pubonline/cms/files/Programy-i-instrukcje-obslugi/SetupAcGasSynchro-7_0_0_90.exe


 :y
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: Lazydocker on 31 May 2011, 09:10:53
[edit]Sorry Phil, there's a new version of the software which is tricky to find... He wants ACSynchro7.whatever as below ;)[/edit]

Took me a while to find it but you want this one:

http://www.ac.com.pl/public/pubonline/cms/files/Programy-i-instrukcje-obslugi/SetupAcGasSynchro-7_0_0_90.exe

You may need to download the USB driver too from Teilo's site:

http://www.motogas.com/downloads.html

Think your lead will be the bottom of the 2 :y
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: TheBoy on 31 May 2011, 18:06:39
Gayboy has my lead, so http://www.ac.com.pl/public/pubonline/cms/files/Programy-i-instrukcje-obslugi/SetupAcGasSynchro-7_0_0_90.exe should be all he needs

It must be v7.0.90 or later, as we've already converted it to Stag 300-ISA2

The s/w initially loads in Polish - one of the menus at top selects language :y
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: TheBoy on 31 May 2011, 18:07:58
Gayboy - if you find you need bits that are here, let me know and I'll blat over one evening (not tonight though, I have to Zzzzzz's to catch up on)
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: feeutfo on 31 May 2011, 19:11:18
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Gayboy - if you find you need bits that are here, let me know and I'll blat over one evening (not tonight though, I have to Zzzzzz's to catch up on)
Do need some fuel pipe, had to remove a section and it's now short. I have a join here but it needs two Polly connectors and olives in addition to what's on the car now.

Was going to suggest posting...?   Although we must be due a curry by now?   :)

And yes I'm off to bed, I'm bloody knackered. That Lazycountrytinker has a lot to answer for. ;)
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: feeutfo on 31 May 2011, 19:12:57
....and thanks for info guys.  :y
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: TheBoy on 31 May 2011, 19:21:05
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Gayboy - if you find you need bits that are here, let me know and I'll blat over one evening (not tonight though, I have to Zzzzzz's to catch up on)
Do need some fuel pipe, had to remove a section and it's now short. I have a join here but it needs two Polly connectors and olives in addition to what's on the car now.

Was going to suggest posting...?   Although we must be due a curry by now?   :)

And yes I'm off to bed, I'm bloody knackered. That Lazycountrytinker has a lot to answer for. ;)
You found the fault then? Kinked?

I'll go out and check if we have connectors and new olives, and how much PF we have.  I can pop them over any evening if you're in a hurry, or can post tomorrow, whichever is best for you.
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: feeutfo on 31 May 2011, 19:31:39
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Gayboy - if you find you need bits that are here, let me know and I'll blat over one evening (not tonight though, I have to Zzzzzz's to catch up on)
Do need some fuel pipe, had to remove a section and it's now short. I have a join here but it needs two Polly connectors and olives in addition to what's on the car now.

Was going to suggest posting...?   Although we must be due a curry by now?   :)

And yes I'm off to bed, I'm bloody knackered. That Lazycountrytinker has a lot to answer for. ;)
You found the fault then? Kinked?

I'll go out and check if we have connectors and new olives, and how much PF we have.  I can pop them over any evening if you're in a hurry, or can post tomorrow, whichever is best for you.
I'll leave it entirely up to you, Kev said he can calibrate thurs/fri so there's time to post.

Yes kinked. :-[ >:(  ::)
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: Lazydocker on 31 May 2011, 19:42:39
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Gayboy - if you find you need bits that are here, let me know and I'll blat over one evening (not tonight though, I have to Zzzzzz's to catch up on)
Do need some fuel pipe, had to remove a section and it's now short. I have a join here but it needs two Polly connectors and olives in addition to what's on the car now.

Was going to suggest posting...?   Although we must be due a curry by now?   :)

And yes I'm off to bed, I'm bloody knackered. That Lazycountrytinker has a lot to answer for. ;)
You found the fault then? Kinked?

I'll go out and check if we have connectors and new olives, and how much PF we have.  I can pop them over any evening if you're in a hurry, or can post tomorrow, whichever is best for you.
I'll leave it entirely up to you, Kev said he can calibrate thurs/fri so there's time to post.

Yes kinked. :-[ >:(  ::)

Where was the kink? Personally I think I'd just run new... Sure we've got plenty in the spares box :-/ :-/ Although, having said that, it's a lot of work if you can get away with the join and it will be in a reasonably accessible but protected area :-/ :-/
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: TheBoy on 31 May 2011, 19:47:19
If you answered your phone, gayboy, you'd know I need to know what size PF fittings, we have 2 sizes, but there doesn't appear to be any olives for larger ones.

I have 2 olives for the 2 smaller PF ends.

We have enough PF to entirely rerun, or a number of shorter pieces - how much you need?
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: feeutfo on 31 May 2011, 19:53:18
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If you answered your phone, gayboy, you'd know I need to know what size PF fittings, we have 2 sizes, but there doesn't appear to be any olives for larger ones.

I have 2 olives for the 2 smaller PF ends.

We have enough PF to entirely rerun, or a number of shorter pieces - how much you need?
About a meter,at most. Currently in the bath, so no phone. I have one olive here. I'll check the garage in a bit.

It's the larger pf end. The smaller where spares.
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: TheBoy on 31 May 2011, 19:54:29
scrub that, i have 1 olive of each size, my bad, tired  :-[

I'll poke up a piccy in a while....
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: TheBoy on 31 May 2011, 20:09:41
Hi res pic (1Mb)...

http://theboy.omegaowners.com/oofpics/oof_odds_and_sods/PF_Ends.JPG
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: Lazydocker on 31 May 2011, 20:14:24
Gayboy definitely has an 8mm olive in his possession... I found it in his Vapour box ::) :D

Anyway, they're available from a decent DIY store ;) But you've probably got more than 1 of each size... I didn't get as far as actually sorting the spares, just consolidated them ;) ;)
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: TheBoy on 31 May 2011, 20:17:21
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Gayboy definitely has an 8mm olive in his possession... I found it in his Vapour box ::) :D

Anyway, they're available from a decent DIY store ;) But you've probably got more than 1 of each size... I didn't get as far as actually sorting the spares, just consolidated them ;) ;)
Been through every box in the 'bits' box, only those 2 olives.  None in the tubes/wires box are there?
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: Lazydocker on 31 May 2011, 20:22:56
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Gayboy definitely has an 8mm olive in his possession... I found it in his Vapour box ::) :D

Anyway, they're available from a decent DIY store ;) But you've probably got more than 1 of each size... I didn't get as far as actually sorting the spares, just consolidated them ;) ;)
Been through every box in the 'bits' box, only those 2 olives.  None in the tubes/wires box are there?

Oh... OK ::)

Doubt there's any in the other box TBH... I was being a bit more thorough then, although it is possible :-/ :-/

You can just grab some 8mm olives from a DIY place though... B&Q do them IIRC ;)
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: feeutfo on 31 May 2011, 20:42:11
Ah, dont need olives, join has them in. So just large poly ends and a bit of polypipe.
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: TheBoy on 31 May 2011, 20:44:49
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Ah, dont need olives, join has them in. So just large poly ends and a bit of polypipe.
All the ends and olives I have here, and a piece of PF, just shy of 2m, will be in post tomorrow :y
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: feeutfo on 31 May 2011, 21:01:23
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Ah, dont need olives, join has them in. So just large poly ends and a bit of polypipe.
All the ends and olives I have here, and a piece of PF, just shy of 2m, will be in post tomorrow :y
Nice one, thnkyou.  :y
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: TheBoy on 02 June 2011, 21:09:55
Fixed it yet, Mr CG?
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: feeutfo on 02 June 2011, 21:30:10
Well.... It runs on gas now. So that's fixed. Cheers TB. That postage couldn't have been cheep either.

 But it wont calibrate, runs like a bag of pants and stalls. Miss fire codes all over the place. Need to book in with Mr Wood I think. Sumats not right, it keeps turning off petrol injectors and, I suspect , turning on gas to the wrong cylinder. Ran out of time tonight so put it all away.

So...
Petrol 1 LPG 1
Petrol 3 LPG 2
Petrol 5 LPG 3

Petrol 2 LPG 4
Petrol 4 LPG 5
Petrol 6 LPG 6

I thought?
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: Lazydocker on 02 June 2011, 22:09:54
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Well.... It runs on gas now. So that's fixed. Cheers TB. That postage couldn't have been cheep either.

 But it wont calibrate, runs like a bag of pants and stalls. Miss fire codes all over the place. Need to book in with Mr Wood I think. Sumats not right, it keeps turning off petrol injectors and, I suspect , turning on gas to the wrong cylinder. Ran out of time tonight so put it all away.

So...
Petrol 1 LPG 1
Petrol 3 LPG 2
Petrol 5 LPG 3

Petrol 2 LPG 4
Petrol 4 LPG 5
Petrol 6 LPG 6

I thought?

Should be, yes... I do hope you haven't managed to bugger up the piggy back connections as that could be a right PITA to trace ::)

Have you managed to get the Vap pressure to settle correctly yet?
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: feeutfo on 02 June 2011, 22:22:03
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Well.... It runs on gas now. So that's fixed. Cheers TB. That postage couldn't have been cheep either.

 But it wont calibrate, runs like a bag of pants and stalls. Miss fire codes all over the place. Need to book in with Mr Wood I think. Sumats not right, it keeps turning off petrol injectors and, I suspect , turning on gas to the wrong cylinder. Ran out of time tonight so put it all away.

So...
Petrol 1 LPG 1
Petrol 3 LPG 2
Petrol 5 LPG 3

Petrol 2 LPG 4
Petrol 4 LPG 5
Petrol 6 LPG 6

I thought?

Should be, yes... I do hope you haven't managed to bugger up the piggy back connections as that could be a right PITA to trace ::)

Have you managed to get the Vap pressure to settle correctly yet?
Will have to check the piggy backs.

Vap pressure is there abouts, although the calibration keeps going tits up saying collector pressure incorrect at 0.63.   Which seems completely at odds with what shows top right of the screen.
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: Lazydocker on 02 June 2011, 22:31:59
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Well.... It runs on gas now. So that's fixed. Cheers TB. That postage couldn't have been cheep either.

 But it wont calibrate, runs like a bag of pants and stalls. Miss fire codes all over the place. Need to book in with Mr Wood I think. Sumats not right, it keeps turning off petrol injectors and, I suspect , turning on gas to the wrong cylinder. Ran out of time tonight so put it all away.

So...
Petrol 1 LPG 1
Petrol 3 LPG 2
Petrol 5 LPG 3

Petrol 2 LPG 4
Petrol 4 LPG 5
Petrol 6 LPG 6

I thought?

Should be, yes... I do hope you haven't managed to bugger up the piggy back connections as that could be a right PITA to trace ::)

Have you managed to get the Vap pressure to settle correctly yet?
Will have to check the piggy backs.

Vap pressure is there abouts, although the calibration keeps going tits up saying collector pressure incorrect at 0.63.   Which seems completely at odds with what shows top right of the screen.

Very curious :-/ :-/ :-/

Have a good check of the colours too (if you didn't before fitting) just in case there's been a balls up with the clips ;) ;)
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: feeutfo on 03 June 2011, 15:35:03
Piggy backs are correct according to stag wiring diags. Not just the number tags but the wiring colours are also correct.
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: TheBoy on 03 June 2011, 16:08:15
Egg sucking - the piggy backs you have wired....

Cyl 1  Piggyback 1  LPG 1
Cyl 3  Piggyback 2  LPG 2
Cyl 5  Piggyback 3  LPG 3
Cyl 2  Piggyback 4  LPG 4
Cyl 4  Piggyback 5  LPG 5
Cyl 6  Piggyback 6  LPG 6


What size are the nozzles?

Is the pressure about right (1.1bar)?
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: feeutfo on 03 June 2011, 16:36:14
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Egg sucking - the piggy backs you have wired....

Cyl 1  Piggyback 1  LPG 1
Cyl 3  Piggyback 2  LPG 2
Cyl 5  Piggyback 3  LPG 3
Cyl 2  Piggyback 4  LPG 4
Cyl 4  Piggyback 5  LPG 5
Cyl 6  Piggyback 6  LPG 6


What size are the nozzles?

Is the pressure about right (1.1bar)?

Yes that's how LPG injectors are asigned

Nozzles are 2.5

Pressure is 1.1 bar ish on Average but it varies.

During calibration I am only seeing LPG injector active on cylinder 1 to start with. Then 2+3 come in, and simultaneously LPG injectors 456 (cylinder246,bank2) all read zero and it miss fires like a gooden.
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: feeutfo on 03 June 2011, 16:56:58
If I persist with calibration it gives a warning collector pressure , 0.62 is too low, even though 1.40 is showing on the screen, I realize 1.4 is too high, but I'm trying to match the warning figure.

Adjusted vap pressure but went too far, warning said too high at 1.53 adjusted back by less turns and gone back to 0.62. Which doesn't correlate to the adjustment made. It makes no sense.

Still seeing different warning reading to what it shows on screen.

Petrol ecu is cutting petrol injectors so have to restart engine.

I is fuddled.  :-/
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: feeutfo on 03 June 2011, 17:18:24
Turning on LPG to each injector in turn , injectors 4+5 run lumpy, all other seem fine. Maybe not calibrated yet? Calibration has yet to complete as it runs so badly.  :(
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: Kevin Wood on 03 June 2011, 18:35:36
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Turning on LPG to each injector in turn , injectors 4+5 run lumpy, all other seem fine. Maybe not calibrated yet? Calibration has yet to complete as it runs so badly.  :(

If it runs smoothly on some cylinders with LPG, it should run the same on all the others (one at a time on LPG), and the uncalibrated settings won't be so far off that one cylinder will make it all go to pot.. There's something up with 4&5, IMHO. Swapped somewhere, maybe?

I did the same with mine, symptoms the same. As soon as you switched either of the swapped cylinders to LPG it all went to pot. One cylinder gets no fuel while the other gets petrol and LPG. Result: engine damn near stalls.

Try swapping the LPG injector wires 4&5 and see if that changes the symptoms?

Kevin
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: feeutfo on 03 June 2011, 18:39:09
I know what's wrong! KW has bunged TB a few quid to knobble my install in order to get me to paint Kev's house by way of payment for correcting TB's error. It's all scam!  >:(
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: feeutfo on 03 June 2011, 18:46:26
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Turning on LPG to each injector in turn , injectors 4+5 run lumpy, all other seem fine. Maybe not calibrated yet? Calibration has yet to complete as it runs so badly.  :(

If it runs smoothly on some cylinders with LPG, it should run the same on all the others (one at a time on LPG), and the uncalibrated settings won't be so far off that one cylinder will make it all go to pot.. There's something up with 4&5, IMHO. Swapped somewhere, maybe?

I did the same with mine, symptoms the same. As soon as you switched either of the swapped cylinders to LPG it all went to pot. One cylinder gets no fuel while the other gets petrol and LPG. Result: engine damn near stalls.

Try swapping the LPG injector wires 4&5 and see if that changes the symptoms?

Kevin
Yes tried that, made no odds. Baring in mind I had already checked all the wiring colurs against a stag wiring diag, I'm not sure where to look next.

I had the thought that maybe the wires are swapped at the LPG ecu plug end...   .... But I'd be inclined to get a grown up to check my colour blind dyslexic altzhiemer infected work first before going there of course :-[



Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: Kevin Wood on 03 June 2011, 18:54:48
Not got a LPG injector pipe trapped / kinked under the plenum, I suppose? :-/

Can you swap one of the LPG injectors from a "faulty" cylinder onto one that's happy on LPG?

Another thing to check. Have a look at the piggy-back connectors and make sure the correct pins are wired up. The black wire on the piggy-back should be connected to the common wire on the injector in each case (and I think that's red with a blue stripe on the Omega's loom). Just possible one of them has been wired with the 2 pins swapped?

You should also be able to trace the wires back to the pins on the ECU connector with a multimeter on ohms. Remove the plug from the LPG ECU and buzz them through. I think the pin connectors of the LPG ECU are in the latest Stag manuals.
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: Kevin Wood on 03 June 2011, 18:55:56
Failing that bring it over? I can spare an hour or two tonight but out tomorrow, as said.
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: albitz on 03 June 2011, 19:48:32
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Not got a LPG injector pipe trapped / kinked under the plenum, I suppose? :-/

Can you swap one of the LPG injectors from a "faulty" cylinder onto one that's happy on LPG?

Another thing to check. Have a look at the piggy-back connectors and make sure the correct pins are wired up. The black wire on the piggy-back should be connected to the common wire on the injector in each case (and I think that's red with a blue stripe on the Omega's loom). Just possible one of them has been wired with the 2 pins swapped?

You should also be able to trace the wires back to the pins on the ECU connector with a multimeter on ohms. Remove the plug from the LPG ECU and buzz them through. I think the pin connectors of the LPG ECU are in the latest Stag manuals.

That was the problem with mine. It ran like a pig until it was fixed. ;)
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: PhilRich on 03 June 2011, 20:59:04
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Not got a LPG injector pipe trapped / kinked under the plenum, I suppose? :-/

Can you swap one of the LPG injectors from a "faulty" cylinder onto one that's happy on LPG?

Another thing to check. Have a look at the piggy-back connectors and make sure the correct pins are wired up. The black wire on the piggy-back should be connected to the common wire on the injector in each case (and I think that's red with a blue stripe on the Omega's loom). Just possible one of them has been wired with the 2 pins swapped?

You should also be able to trace the wires back to the pins on the ECU connector with a multimeter on ohms. Remove the plug from the LPG ECU and buzz them through. I think the pin connectors of the LPG ECU are in the latest Stag manuals.

That was the problem with mine. It ran like a pig until it was fixed. ;)







Took me 3 weeks to deduce some t**t had crosswired one of the lpg injectors on the loom! >:(  I very nearly went bald!! ;D
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: TheBoy on 03 June 2011, 22:11:26
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I know what's wrong! KW has bunged TB a few quid to knobble my install in order to get me to paint Kev's house by way of payment for correcting TB's error. It's all scam!  >:(
You found the gravel yet? ;D


Joking aside, the evap gas pressure issue sounds odd.  If Kevin is around at any point in next few days, that might be a worthwhile option.

We never swapped back the sensors we swapped on Sunday iirc? That said, mine was running fine before, and runs well now...
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: TheBoy on 03 June 2011, 22:12:20
I believe Lazydocker said its not unknown for the looms to be wrong, might be worth metering that out?
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: Kevin Wood on 03 June 2011, 22:17:11
Remember the vapour pressure is measured relative to the manifold vacuum. If the engine is running on 4 and struggling to idle the manifold vacuum will probably be all over the place, so the vapour pressure will too.

If the injectors are not consuming vapour the pressure will also not have anywhere to go, so it will tend to peak when the manifold vacuum is low, and never come down again. I'd say don't worry about that at the moment. Concentrate on working out why there are a couple of pots that don't run on LPG whilst the others will (so vapour pressure can't be far wrong). Once that's resolved you might just find you've been chasing a red herring.
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: Lazydocker on 03 June 2011, 22:20:20
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Quote
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Not got a LPG injector pipe trapped / kinked under the plenum, I suppose? :-/

Can you swap one of the LPG injectors from a "faulty" cylinder onto one that's happy on LPG?

Another thing to check. Have a look at the piggy-back connectors and make sure the correct pins are wired up. The black wire on the piggy-back should be connected to the common wire on the injector in each case (and I think that's red with a blue stripe on the Omega's loom). Just possible one of them has been wired with the 2 pins swapped?

You should also be able to trace the wires back to the pins on the ECU connector with a multimeter on ohms. Remove the plug from the LPG ECU and buzz them through. I think the pin connectors of the LPG ECU are in the latest Stag manuals.

That was the problem with mine. It ran like a pig until it was fixed. ;)

Took me 3 weeks to deduce some t**t had crosswired one of the lpg injectors on the loom! >:(  I very nearly went bald!! ;D

But I told you several times to check it before you did ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Stag Ac gas synchro link
Post by: Lazydocker on 03 June 2011, 22:21:14
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I believe Lazydocker said its not unknown for the looms to be wrong, might be worth metering that out?

Yep... Rare but not impossible ;) ;)