Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Amigo on 22 June 2011, 20:10:42

Title: Induction kits.
Post by: Amigo on 22 June 2011, 20:10:42
Yeah i know it's been done over & over again, but, the first one ifitted was a Pipercross to my green 2.5 CD, then put it on the Beastie. Lot's of love & lots of ridicule. All i know is on a V6 Mig they sound great but admit there is little if any power difference. Just bought a K&N kit for the MX5, £62 with cold air feed kit & free P&P. On the box it said guaranteed BHP & acceleration increase. I thought this was a brave promise from a well known company given the legal implications. Does'nt sound as fruity as the Mig did although there is a bark but it's got a huge push @ 3500/4000 rpm in every gear. She flys now, it's realy woken her up. Can't wait to do the exhaust, manifold & do away with the cat.

  No wonder Pete's surprised us all @ the Yorkmeet.
Title: Re: Induction kits.
Post by: hercules on 22 June 2011, 20:25:02
Quote
Yeah i know it's been done over & over again, but, the first one ifitted was a Pipercross to my green 2.5 CD, then put it on the Beastie. Lot's of love & lots of ridicule. All i know is on a V6 Mig they sound great but admit there is little if any power difference. Just bought a K&N kit for the MX5, £62 with cold air feed kit & free P&P. On the box it said guaranteed BHP & acceleration increase. I thought this was a brave promise from a well known company given the legal implications. Does'nt sound as fruity as the Mig did although there is a bark but it's got a huge push @ 3500/4000 rpm in every gear. She flys now, it's realy woken her up. Can't wait to do the exhaust, manifold & do away with the cat.

  No wonder Pete's surprised us all @ the Yorkmeet.
whats happened with the york meet,last year i was gonna go and it got cancelled and this year nowts been said
Title: Re: Induction kits.
Post by: Amigo on 22 June 2011, 20:43:34
Hello matey. Ian_D. usually arranged the Yorkmeet as he knows the keyholder & provided the marquees & more. I know he's up for another meet but a new job limits his time off.

  I'll try & contact him. Guy. :y
Title: Re: Induction kits.
Post by: Elite Pete on 22 June 2011, 21:10:36
I did the same mods Guy, 4-2-1 manifold, de cat, stainless twin exit exhaust and a pipercross induction kit. It really does make a difference ;)
Title: Re: Induction kits.
Post by: Elite Pete on 22 June 2011, 21:11:36
Just to add, you should keep your eyes open for a supercharger or turbo kit, now that will wake it up a bit ;D
Title: Re: Induction kits.
Post by: TheBoy on 22 June 2011, 21:28:29
A good induction can change some cars, though never seen an improvement to Omegas.

The Black Beastie has reverted to the standard setup to try to get some of the lost power back.  I have another spin in it today, but TheDaddy wouldn't let me turn traction control off, and it caught every single attempt for me to 'have myself some fun' ;D
Title: Re: Induction kits.
Post by: Broomies Mate on 22 June 2011, 21:30:10
Quote
Yeah i know it's been done over & over again, but, the first one ifitted was a Pipercross to my green 2.5 CD, then put it on the Beastie. Lot's of love & lots of ridicule. All i know is on a V6 Mig they sound great but admit there is little if any power difference. Just bought a K&N kit for the MX5, £62 with cold air feed kit & free P&P. On the box it said guaranteed BHP & acceleration increase. I thought this was a brave promise from a well known company given the legal implications. Does'nt sound as fruity as the Mig did although there is a bark but it's got a huge push @ 3500/4000 rpm in every gear. She flys now, it's realy woken her up. Can't wait to do the exhaust, manifold & do away with the cat.

  No wonder Pete's surprised us all @ the Yorkmeet.

Ridicule of Induction Kits is primarily due to the fact that people actually believe what they read on the packet.

Here is a simple fact.  Engines require air to run, the colder the air the better.  The more air, the more fuel can be pumped in to keep the 'balance' and therefore increase performance.

However, most 'Induction Kits' on sale are a simple cone filter which are coated with an oil.  These filters tend to be mounted without protection from the heat produced by the engine.  This means the induction is sucking warm/hot air and not the cold air which is preferential.  Furthermore, the oil which coat these filters invariably damages the sensitive sensors which detect the quantity of air entering the engine.

Manufacturers spend millions and millions of pounds on R&D.  Whilst not having conclusive proof, I'd bet my virgin arsehole on them actually trying the above mentioned filters.  They always revert back to the 'panel' filter.  There must be a reason for this.

All of the above I have written not directly at you, but at the majority of people who think a cone filter IZ DA MUTTZ INIT!  :y 
Title: Re: Induction kits.
Post by: Amigo on 22 June 2011, 21:39:52
It's all on the cards Pete. I just wanted to redress the balance. Back when i fitted the duccie kit to my old 2.5 folk were divided. Some loved some said it was pointless on a Mig.
   rather' works on an 1800 MX5 without a doubt. Midrange punch puts you back in the seat, duccie kits DO work on some cars, argue all you like...but they do! 8-) :y
Title: Re: Induction kits.
Post by: Broomies Mate on 22 June 2011, 21:46:58
Quote
It's all on the cards Pete. I just wanted to redress the balance. Back when i fitted the duccie kit to my old 2.5 folk were divided. Some loved some said it was pointless on a Mig.
   rather' works on an 1800 MX5 without a doubt. Midrange punch puts you back in the seat, duccie kits DO work on some cars, argue all you like...but they do! 8-) :y

I had amazing results with a cone filter (protected with Cold Air Feed) on a 1989 1.5 12v Mitsubishi Colt.  I had reasonable results (again protected with cold air feed) on a Mk5 1.6 Escort.

Flip side, negative results with a K&N Panel filter on a 2.5V6 Vectra B and also 3.0V6 Omega.

Extraordinarily bad results with a cone filter (with cold air feed, not protected) on a 2.0 16v Vectra B.

I'd never say never, but I very much doubt I'll be trying my hand at improving on 'modern' design in the near future.  :y
Title: Re: Induction kits.
Post by: Amigo on 22 June 2011, 21:58:17
Quote
Quote
Yeah i know it's been done over & over again, but, the first one ifitted was a Pipercross to my green 2.5 CD, then put it on the Beastie. Lot's of love & lots of ridicule. All i know is on a V6 Mig they sound great but admit there is little if any power difference. Just bought a K&N kit for the MX5, £62 with cold air feed kit & free P&P. On the box it said guaranteed BHP & acceleration increase. I thought this was a brave promise from a well known company given the legal implications. Does'nt sound as fruity as the Mig did although there is a bark but it's got a huge push @ 3500/4000 rpm in every gear. She flys now, it's realy woken her up. Can't wait to do the exhaust, manifold & do away with the cat.

  No wonder Pete's surprised us all @ the Yorkmeet.

Ridicule of Induction Kits is primarily due to the fact that people actually believe what they read on the packet.

Here is a simple fact.  Engines require air to run, the colder the air the better.  The more air, the more fuel can be pumped in to keep the 'balance' and therefore increase performance.

However, most 'Induction Kits' on sale are a simple cone filter which are coated with an oil.  These filters tend to be mounted without protection from the heat produced by the engine.  This means the induction is sucking warm/hot air and not the cold air which is preferential.  Furthermore, the oil which coat these filters invariably damages the sensitive sensors which detect the quantity of air entering the engine.

Manufacturers spend millions and millions of pounds on R&D.  Whilst not having conclusive proof, I'd bet my virgin arsehole on them actually trying the above mentioned filters.  They always revert back to the 'panel' filter.  There must be a reason for this.

All of the above I have written not directly at you, but at the majority of people who think a cone filter IZ DA MUTTZ INIT!  :y 
OK Broomie. I'm a 48 year old white boy who does'nt talk street...innit & have enough years, oval /banger racing miles under my belt not to be taken in by a silly noisy gimmicks. I've raced & run modded Minis track & road. I'm still far from an expert but you get the idea. As said on V6 Migs sounded great but no real difference. The MX5 gave little difference in sound but without doubt is noticably quicker midrange & it's not a placebo or my imagination, stuff the tekky spec.....

   IT WORKS...JUST TRIED IT! 8-)
Title: Re: Induction kits.
Post by: Lazydocker on 22 June 2011, 22:03:12
Agreed... On some cars they can work, if fitted correctly with the cold air feed.
Title: Re: Induction kits.
Post by: Amigo on 22 June 2011, 22:16:52
Quote
Agreed... On some cars they can work, if fitted correctly with the cold air feed.
Evening Paul. How are you?
Title: Re: Induction kits.
Post by: Vamps on 22 June 2011, 22:28:12
Many years ago, again on blue oval cars we just to remove the air filter all together, perhaps put some gauze across the intake to stop any stones getting in.... ::) ::) ::) Used to sound great, really throaty.... :D :D :D
Title: Re: Induction kits.
Post by: Lazydocker on 22 June 2011, 22:43:49
Quote
Quote
Agreed... On some cars they can work, if fitted correctly with the cold air feed.
Evening Paul. How are you?

Not too bad thanks Guy... Counting down to hospital next week ::) :y
Title: Re: Induction kits.
Post by: Amigo on 22 June 2011, 22:45:29
Quote
A good induction can change some cars, though never seen an improvement to Omegas.

The Black Beastie has reverted to the standard setup to try to get some of the lost power back.  I have another spin in it today, but TheDaddy wouldn't let me turn traction control off, and it caught every single attempt for me to 'have myself some fun' ;D
I accept duccie kits on V6 Migs sound the part but that's about it which is why i sold her with the standard airbox. Hope she's doing Tony well & he's keeping her clean..i know where he lives...i should've disabled the TC button!" :y
Title: Re: Induction kits.
Post by: CaptainZok on 22 June 2011, 22:45:41
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Quote
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Agreed... On some cars they can work, if fitted correctly with the cold air feed.
Evening Paul. How are you?

Not too bad thanks Guy... Counting down to hospital next week ::) :y
Having your glass-back double glazed LF? ;D ;D
Title: Re: Induction kits.
Post by: Lazydocker on 22 June 2011, 22:47:26
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Quote
Quote
Quote
Agreed... On some cars they can work, if fitted correctly with the cold air feed.
Evening Paul. How are you?

Not too bad thanks Guy... Counting down to hospital next week ::) :y
Having your glass-back double glazed LF? ;D ;D

2 small round spherical objects, usually found between gentlemen's legs ::) :D

Yep... Hopefully getting it sorted :y
Title: Re: Induction kits.
Post by: Vamps on 22 June 2011, 22:49:20
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Agreed... On some cars they can work, if fitted correctly with the cold air feed.
Evening Paul. How are you?

Not too bad thanks Guy... Counting down to hospital next week ::) :y
Having your glass-back double glazed LF? ;D ;D

2 small round spherical objects, usually found between gentlemen's legs ::) :D

Yep... Hopefully getting it sorted :y

Don't you just love the friendly support offered to members on here....... :D :D :D
Title: Re: Induction kits.
Post by: Broomies Mate on 22 June 2011, 22:50:04
Amigo, I dont know the MX5 as I've never owned one.

It may be the case that it is one of those cars which will benefit from a Aftermarket Induction Kit.

Could you explain exactly what you have fitted and how? I take it you havent just removed the factory fitted air filter and put a 'cone' in it's place?  Any cold feeds etc?

When was the last OE panel replaced?  Was it in great/good/fair/poor condition?

As in my original post on this thread, I'm not saying they DONT work, I'm saying they dont work as well as the packet says in a lot of applications, and they definitely dont work without serious modification underneath the bonnet of a V6 Omega!  :y
Title: Re: Induction kits.
Post by: feeutfo on 22 June 2011, 23:38:42
? We're not surprised one make/model car behaves differently to another... are we? ....surely?

I mean how many tyre places know about camber? Much less camber on an omega?

How many garages have pegged an omega butterfly not knowing the icv is fooked?

How many head gaskets do we get diagnosed faulty when the hbv has failed?

And, dare I say it, his many eejits do we get on here claiming cone filters increase power on the omega when the just plainly do not. "A fool and his money" ... Ya mite say... Hmm? ::) 
Title: Re: Induction kits.
Post by: TheBoy on 23 June 2011, 15:52:39
Quote
Quote
A good induction can change some cars, though never seen an improvement to Omegas.

The Black Beastie has reverted to the standard setup to try to get some of the lost power back.  I have another spin in it today, but TheDaddy wouldn't let me turn traction control off, and it caught every single attempt for me to 'have myself some fun' ;D
I accept duccie kits on V6 Migs sound the part but that's about it which is why i sold her with the standard airbox. Hope she's doing Tony well & he's keeping her clean..i know where he lives...i should've disabled the TC button!" :y
He is enjoying the car. As am I when he leaves the keys unattended on his desk ;D
Title: Re: Induction kits.
Post by: Amigo on 23 June 2011, 19:28:11
Quote
Amigo, I dont know the MX5 as I've never owned one.

It may be the case that it is one of those cars which will benefit from a Aftermarket Induction Kit.

Could you explain exactly what you have fitted and how? I take it you havent just removed the factory fitted air filter and put a 'cone' in it's place?  Any cold feeds etc?

When was the last OE panel replaced?  Was it in great/good/fair/poor condition?

As in my original post on this thread, I'm not saying they DONT work, I'm saying they dont work as well as the packet says in a lot of applications, and they definitely dont work without serious modification underneath the bonnet of a V6 Omega!  :y
Grated they sound good on the VX V6 but do precious little else. Only changed the filters lastnight, cold air feed has been fitted in my absence today as i'm trucksleeping again! Manifold heat shield is in place, never had one with the pipercross on the V6 or cold air feed, so doing it properly this time. 8-)
Title: Re: Induction kits.
Post by: Amigo on 23 June 2011, 19:30:16
Quote
Quote
Quote
A good induction can change some cars, though never seen an improvement to Omegas.

The Black Beastie has reverted to the standard setup to try to get some of the lost power back.  I have another spin in it today, but TheDaddy wouldn't let me turn traction control off, and it caught every single attempt for me to 'have myself some fun' ;D
I accept duccie kits on V6 Migs sound the part but that's about it which is why i sold her with the standard airbox. Hope she's doing Tony well & he's keeping her clean..i know where he lives...i should've disabled the TC button!" :y
He is enjoying the car. As am I when he leaves the keys unattended on his desk ;D
Stop twoc-ing "MY" car. You know you want a manual really!!! 8-)
Title: Re: Induction kits.
Post by: TheBoy on 23 June 2011, 19:35:50
Quote
Quote
Amigo, I dont know the MX5 as I've never owned one.

It may be the case that it is one of those cars which will benefit from a Aftermarket Induction Kit.

Could you explain exactly what you have fitted and how? I take it you havent just removed the factory fitted air filter and put a 'cone' in it's place?  Any cold feeds etc?

When was the last OE panel replaced?  Was it in great/good/fair/poor condition?

As in my original post on this thread, I'm not saying they DONT work, I'm saying they dont work as well as the packet says in a lot of applications, and they definitely dont work without serious modification underneath the bonnet of a V6 Omega!  :y
Grated they sound good on the VX V6 but do precious little else. Only changed the filters lastnight, cold air feed has been fitted in my absence today as i'm trucksleeping again! Manifold heat shield is in place, never had one with the pipercross on the V6 or cold air feed, so doing it properly this time. 8-)
It showed to be honest - but its proving to be a nice little test ground for TheDaddy and I :y

Few other bits and pieces that aren't quite right. I have my theories.  I reckon its gonna be a right little screamer once we're done :y

I think TheDaddy is going to pop some new front pads on before we get too much performance from it though, as those pattern ones aren't up to the abuse ::)


I'm quite enjoying sorting these (minor) snags out, and I think TheDaddy is to, as he makes it 'his' :y
Title: Re: Induction kits.
Post by: jerry on 23 June 2011, 21:22:52
TBH ,from what Ive read, even the better induction kits such as pipercross or bmc dont really up your bhp much. Sure, theyre better than the k+n ones (which seem to make the right sound but little else), but if you want value for money in terms of cash outlay v increased performance, a good chip and rolling-road tune up is probably the way to go. When I had the prelude I had the sports exhaust, the bmc cold feed CDA induction kit , magnecor leads and irridium plugs but it was the dastek unichip that gave the greatest increase . The bhp went up to 200 with a 0-60 of around 6 secs. Not bad for an autobox and a reasonably heavy car. I had the vtec cutin lowered to about 3000 revs. and all with no loss in mpg.Obviously all cars are different though and you can easily spend a lot of money with very little gain from it. I should imagine the mx5 based purely on its power/weight ratio is nippy enough to start with. Certainly you always seem to hear good things about their road handling/driving experience too. Guess you dont run a model this long without it being half decent ;D (just a tad small for my liking/bulk though ;D)
Title: Re: Induction kits.
Post by: Amigo on 24 June 2011, 20:16:54
Quote
TBH ,from what Ive read, even the better induction kits such as pipercross or bmc dont really up your bhp much. Sure, theyre better than the k+n ones (which seem to make the right sound but little else), but if you want value for money in terms of cash outlay v increased performance, a good chip and rolling-road tune up is probably the way to go. When I had the prelude I had the sports exhaust, the bmc cold feed CDA induction kit , magnecor leads and irridium plugs but it was the dastek unichip that gave the greatest increase . The bhp went up to 200 with a 0-60 of around 6 secs. Not bad for an autobox and a reasonably heavy car. I had the vtec cutin lowered to about 3000 revs. and all with no loss in mpg.Obviously all cars are different though and you can easily spend a lot of money with very little gain from it. I should imagine the mx5 based purely on its power/weight ratio is nippy enough to start with. Certainly you always seem to hear good things about their road handling/driving experience too. Guess you dont run a model this long without it being half decent ;D (just a tad small for my liking/bulk though ;D)
Interesting. I paid £70 for the Omega Pipercross 5 years ago (it's been on two cars) with no cold air feed. It sounded great but that was it. The K&N for the 1800MX5 was £62 with cold air feed inc. P&P. Power seller deal, sounds nice but not as good as the Mig but REALLY does wake her up & 4rpm....you do have oil clean them as well.

  Must be the difference in certain cars. There are some models of Astra that you can but kits for but will hardly run at all with them.

  I profess to know nothing of the technical side, i'm a rough lad & like the noise...grin factor!
Title: Re: Induction kits.
Post by: Amigo on 24 June 2011, 20:23:26
Quote
Quote
Quote
Amigo, I dont know the MX5 as I've never owned one.

It may be the case that it is one of those cars which will benefit from a Aftermarket Induction Kit.

Could you explain exactly what you have fitted and how? I take it you havent just removed the factory fitted air filter and put a 'cone' in it's place?  Any cold feeds etc?

When was the last OE panel replaced?  Was it in great/good/fair/poor condition?

As in my original post on this thread, I'm not saying they DONT work, I'm saying they dont work as well as the packet says in a lot of applications, and they definitely dont work without serious modification underneath the bonnet of a V6 Omega!  :y
Grated they sound good on the VX V6 but do precious little else. Only changed the filters lastnight, cold air feed has been fitted in my absence today as i'm trucksleeping again! Manifold heat shield is in place, never had one with the pipercross on the V6 or cold air feed, so doing it properly this time. 8-)
It showed to be honest - but its proving to be a nice little test ground for TheDaddy and I :y

Few other bits and pieces that aren't quite right. I have my theories.  I reckon its gonna be a right little screamer once we're done :y

I think TheDaddy is going to pop some new front pads on before we get too much performance from it though, as those pattern ones aren't up to the abuse ::)


I'm quite enjoying sorting these (minor) snags out, and I think TheDaddy is to, as he makes it 'his' :y
Yeah the front pads were ordered last minute & are a bit cack. I know how you feel about the duccie kit, fair go. What else are you doing? Are you keeping the exhaust?

   Keep me posted as she's still MY car really!!!! 8-)
Title: Re: Induction kits.
Post by: TheBoy on 24 June 2011, 21:34:01
I reckon its got multiram issues, judging by power delivery. Well, first place to look, anyway.
Title: Re: Induction kits.
Post by: Amigo on 24 June 2011, 21:43:46
Quote
I reckon its got multiram issues, judging by power delivery. Well, first place to look, anyway.
Oh. Did'nt knoiw about that. They have been cleaned since i had the car. If there was a power loss it must have been gradual as i did'nt notice. She stull pulled well!
Title: Re: Induction kits.
Post by: feeutfo on 25 June 2011, 09:12:15
As I recall, it was down on power at the rolling road day Guy. Although as for the reasons...  :-/