Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: ninjapirate on 29 June 2011, 14:28:23
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rapidly running out of working engines lol
just got boat fuel'd, stbrd engine runs fine, but the port is flooding oil with petrol. which is what happend last time and i had to replace them cus the bores had gone. i dont think its been run much since the oil changes tho so hope it can be fixed, either mechanical fuel pump is leaking or the carb is mega rich, ive had them rebuilt a couple times tho.
these are the 3rd set of engines since ive had the boat, had originals replaced when i got it, then the second lot were rubbish and bores went, so i replaced again! and they arnt cheap engines i think my last bill was £13k..
:(
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I'd check that you don't have an issue such as a carb flooding causing bore wash or, as you say, a fuel pump pi$$ing fuel into the crankcase. Maybe you have too much fuel pressure and it's overcoming the float valves in the carbs?
Might be worth investing in a couple of electric fuel pumps and fuel pressure regs anyway? More reliable and less likely to cause this type of issue.
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it does have a regulator on each engine, dont know how old thy are, i dont think its the carbs, they been rebuilt a few times, and it didnt fix the problem last time, i did buy couple big electric pumps and the other regulators, i cant remmber why they didnt get fitted, now lpg is totaly removed i might do that again, faccet pumps should work alright in marine enviroment i guess? in the past i thought it might of been switching from lpg to petrol causing the problem, with the mechanical fuel pump still pumping away then when you switch back to fuel pressure has built up, but these engines have not run on lpg at all, it voided the warranty on the last engines cus the mechanic didnt order or tell them it was to be used with lpg! they then went bust before i could get my £10k back. (after replacing just about everything else that didnt need to be).
not sure how i would check if its the carb? go for fuel pump 1st i guess.
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Something like a Facet is what I have in mind although I have no idea if they would be appropriate for marine use.
The larger variants certainly put out enough pressure (7 or 8 PSI +) to overcome the float valves in a weber 45DCOE so it is a must to drop the pressure to 3 PSI or so. Your carbs may vary, of course.
A Gunson "lo-gauge" is a handy tool for measuring fuel pressure (in addition to manifold vacuum). Might be worth investing in one and checking the fuel pressure at the carb using a T piece in the fuel line?
In addition, can you remove the fuel pumps and operate the arms manually while checking for leakage from the pump?
With the carb reservoirs full the pumps should be pumping into a closed valve so I would have thought a few strokes of the pump by hand would show signs of any leakage.
The other thing to consider is that a flooding carb would be causing the engine to idle very poorly and probably black smoke at the exhaust whereas a leak through the fuel pump probably wouldn't make any difference.
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Something like a Facet is what I have in mind although I have no idea if they would be appropriate for marine use.
The larger variants certainly put out enough pressure (7 or 8 PSI +) to overcome the float valves in a weber 45DCOE so it is a must to drop the pressure to 3 PSI or so. Your carbs may vary, of course.
A Gunson "lo-gauge" is a handy tool for measuring fuel pressure (in addition to manifold vacuum). Might be worth investing in one and checking the fuel pressure at the carb using a T piece in the fuel line?
In addition, can you remove the fuel pumps and operate the arms manually while checking for leakage from the pump?
With the carb reservoirs full the pumps should be pumping into a closed valve so I would have thought a few strokes of the pump by hand would show signs of any leakage.
The other thing to consider is that a flooding carb would be causing the engine to idle very poorly and probably black smoke at the exhaust whereas a leak through the fuel pump probably wouldn't make any difference.
faccet seems about the best, used on a fair few american boats, will see if they do a marine app but i dont see it being any differant down there, its nice and toasty lol
Im not sure what psi i need to get at moment, and until i know if its the carb needs changing, i might change to a differant type carb at the same time, i think its a rochester? so then i can match new pumps to new carbs.
good idea about the lo-guage, that should help narrow it down a bit, what will fanimold vacuum tell me?
its interesting you say about lumpy idle, as that was the 1st sign of a problem everytime, (1st time i replaced the engines i barely made it across the river to fuel pumps after they were fitted pmsl) now i had carbs rebuilt to rule that out, i think i should bin them just to rule it out. there are other benifits to swapping to electronic pumps anyway.
i looked into having both engines swapped to efi... its not cheap!
thats the other problem, what ever i do to fix this engine, i have to buy two of and fit to the other engine to keep them balanced lol boats - hull in the water to throw money into!
thanks for your advice again
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edit,
turns out they didnt start the port engine, the done the oil etc on stbrd then started it which is ok, but when they went to change oil on port noticed the fuel, so it hasnt been run to see if its lumpy at moment. (im at home, with volvo penta mechanic there)
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By faucet I take it you mean made from brass? If so then ......Noooooooooooooooo!
You want dezincified bronze. Not cheap but brass will just disolve internally before failing spectacularly.
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By faucet I take it you mean made from brass? If so then ......Noooooooooooooooo!
You want dezincified bronze. Not cheap but brass will just disolve internally before failing spectacularly.
facet pumps, doesnt say what its made from, but i would be talkin to someone about its applilcation before buying
http://www.fuelpumpsonline.co.uk/facet-red-top-fuel-pump---competition-480532e-14-p.asp
thing i was thinking of
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Looks like brass to me :(
Have you tried posting www.ybw.com/forums ? Generally a very good wealth of boating info/experience on there :y
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i did in the past years ago, but back then they wernt that helpfull tbh. i might join again see what its like now.
why would it disolve? the engine bay is heated during winter and nice and dry, normaly lots of brass used on boats.
will certanly make sure i get the right type tho lol garentee it will have a couple extra 0s on price just for being marine.
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i did in the past years ago, but back then they wernt that helpfull tbh. i might join again see what its like now.
why would it disolve? the engine bay is heated during winter and nice and dry, normaly lots of brass used on boats.
will certanly make sure i get the right type tho lol garentee it will have a couple extra 0s on price just for being marine.
That's as sure as death and taxes! Everytime I go to the local chandlers I end up spending a fortune....on nothing!
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lol i was going through all the old invoices earlier trying to work out what i done to each engine and what was new or may of been carried over, the files are 3 inches thick, a rough count was well over £100k in maint and servicing, she is 20 years old tho, would be lots more if i went for diesels! if you just go in to buy a light bulb you come out with more and £100 lighter haha
Ive updated or replced most of it, still a good old list of what i would like to do tho. and still i couldnt part with her! been close to selling and getting a bigger boat a few times but really dont need the extra expence and its better the devil you know....i think.
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This is my second money pit (after the Omega)
http://www.soia.org.uk/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=409
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Looks like brass to me :(
Have you tried posting www.ybw.com/forums ? Generally a very good wealth of boating info/experience on there :y
Not sure they are brass. Seem more like steel with some sort of plating on, but I might be wrong. I'll have a look at the spare I've got in the garage..
Oh, and it might be worth getting the electronic Facet pumps rather than the mechanical ones. They are more reliable but need an external filter.
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Looks like brass to me :(
Have you tried posting www.ybw.com/forums ? Generally a very good wealth of boating info/experience on there :y
Not sure they are brass. Seem more like steel with some sort of plating on, but I might be wrong. I'll have a look at the spare I've got in the garage..
Oh, and it might be worth getting the electronic Facet pumps rather than the mechanical ones. They are more reliable but need an external filter.
thanks for info, when you say external filter, they will be mounted after the massive marine fuel filters just after the fuel tank, then theres the normal inline filter nr the engine before it hits ze carb. are the electric ones the proper smaller ones?
:D
like dis
http://www.marinedna.com/water-separatorfuel-filter-complete-type-ws180-p-29579.html
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only thing engines share is the fuel tank, after that its all seperate, two big flters like that, to mech fuel pump, inline filter, carb, electrics battery etc all stand alone for each engine.
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This is the solid state Facet:
http://www.fuelpumpsonline.co.uk/facet-solid-state-fuel-pump-40105-30-45psi-6-p.asp
Similar to the cylindrical pumps and work on exactly the same principal of a plunger oscillating inside a coil of wire but the current is switched by an electronic circuit rather than a set of contacts so the normal point of failure (and the reason you have to give the others a thump every now and then!) is eliminated.
They also don't have the pre-pump filter integrated in the pump, hence the smaller body. As you have a filter before the pump in your application I can't see that mattering.
Kevin
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little update from another mechanic as last one is away today,
after changing oil in port engine, its running perfectly well, and hasnt been any more signs of fuel in oil :-?
its something im going to keep a very close eye on, changing to electric pumps is still a better way to go, maybe the carb stuck or they flooded it? wouldnt expect so much fuel to be dumped down tho.
but now the strbd engine exhaust riser which is also where the water goes back out to sea seems to be blocked and not getting warm on one side lol about £300 each, i think they are pretty old tho.
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but now the strbd engine exhaust riser which is also where the water goes back out to sea seems to be blocked and not getting warm on one side lol about £300 each, i think they are pretty old tho.
Blocked, or are the cylinders on that bank not firing?
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but now the strbd engine exhaust riser which is also where the water goes back out to sea seems to be blocked and not getting warm on one side lol about £300 each, i think they are pretty old tho.
Blocked, or are the cylinders on that bank not firing?
firing on all 8, after some research, risers should start to be replaced after about 4 years or can cause major problems due to the salt water corrosion, oops mine are atleast 7 years old! i know one or two have been replaced before i got it, but its something i will replace one by one lol
could of picked some shite up out the river pretty easy.
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.. and I thought my
Omega Westfield Glider was a money pit. ;)
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.. and I thought my Omega Westfield Glider was a money pit. ;)
If you value your bank balance, never ever get into boats :'(