Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Webby the Bear on 02 August 2011, 18:16:54
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Hi guys, hope you're all well. ;)
Firstly, can someone explain how these work. my mate has an auto peugeot 307 and it has the option to use the gear stick as manual (up for higher gear, down for lower). now if he's in this manual mode and he's say for instance in 4th gear if he then breaks and forgets to change gear the car will realise he's not changed down and take him down through the gears automatically yet he'll still remain in manual mode. is this the same scenario with the flappy paddles on your AMG's, m5's, ferrari's, maseratti's etc etc????
also, do you think the gear stick and clutch pedal will be around in 5 years? the reason i ask is cos i reckon semi auto's (auto or flappy paddle manual) are the way to go. most of the cars on TG are flappy padels.
just wondered what y'all thought :)
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It depends on what car you're talking about. Some 'flappy paddle' gearboxes are 'proper' torque converter autos but with some kind of manual operation. Others, like the VW DSG gearbox & SWMBO's Smart, Vx's Easytronic etc are manual geaboxes with an electrical operated clutch (VWs DSG has two clutches)
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It depends on what car you're talking about. Some 'flappy paddle' gearboxes are 'proper' torque converter autos but with some kind of manual operation. Others, like the VW DSG gearbox & SWMBO's Smart, Vx's Easytronic etc are manual geaboxes with an electrical operated clutch (VWs DSG has two clutches)
so youre saying some will act like my mates manual mode automatic 307 and some will be proper manual and will not change down or up without the driver doing it?
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It depends on what car you're talking about. Some 'flappy paddle' gearboxes are 'proper' torque converter autos but with some kind of manual operation. Others, like the VW DSG gearbox & SWMBO's Smart, Vx's Easytronic etc are manual geaboxes with an electrical operated clutch (VWs DSG has two clutches)
so youre saying some will act like my mates manual mode automatic 307 and some will be proper manual and will not change down or up without the driver doing it?
Most Flappy's/tiptronics will automatically change down smoothly to a traffic light stop, instead of flapping down and jumping about. (gradually slowing). but the same wouldnt apply to changing up, if anything most it would do is notify you and expect you to change up! :y
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It depends on what car you're talking about. Some 'flappy paddle' gearboxes are 'proper' torque converter autos but with some kind of manual operation. Others, like the VW DSG gearbox & SWMBO's Smart, Vx's Easytronic etc are manual geaboxes with an electrical operated clutch (VWs DSG has two clutches)
so youre saying some will act like my mates manual mode automatic 307 and some will be proper manual and will not change down or up without the driver doing it?
Most Flappy's/tiptronics will automatically change down smoothly to a traffic light stop, instead of flapping down and jumping about. (gradually slowing). but the same wouldnt apply to changing up, if anything most it would do is notify you and expect you to change up! :y
thanks guys ;)
so realkly then i only ever need the up changer ;D
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pretty much, until someday you drive a lil aggressive, you could do with (-) paddle ;) ;)
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It depends on what car you're talking about. Some 'flappy paddle' gearboxes are 'proper' torque converter autos but with some kind of manual operation. Others, like the VW DSG gearbox & SWMBO's Smart, Vx's Easytronic etc are manual geaboxes with an electrical operated clutch (VWs DSG has two clutches)
so youre saying some will act like my mates manual mode automatic 307 and some will be proper manual and will not change down or up without the driver doing it?
Most Flappy's/tiptronics will automatically change down smoothly to a traffic light stop, instead of flapping down and jumping about. (gradually slowing). but the same wouldnt apply to changing up, if anything most it would do is notify you and expect you to change up! :y
thanks guys ;)
so realkly then i only ever need the up changer ;D
SWMBO's Smart will eventually change UP on its own when in manual, but it red lines it to do so. It will change down as the car slows down ie not just when it comes to a stand still. :y
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cheers for ze info guys.
so what do you dudes think of the semi. better or worse than a stick? i imagine it would be good but a bit of novelty value? :-/
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cheers for ze info guys.
so what do you dudes think of the semi. better or worse than a stick? i imagine it would be good but a bit of novelty value? :-/
The Smart is OK, but not the worlds smoothest gearbox, especially when initially selecting 1st to set off unless you're patient with it. Others rave about VW's DSG but I wasn't particularly impressed, the changes were fast, but over all a bit on or off when you wanted to manouvre slowly eg parking.
I'll keep to 'proper' autos or 3 pedals when push comes to shove. :y :y
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cheers for ze info guys.
so what do you dudes think of the semi. better or worse than a stick? i imagine it would be good but a bit of novelty value? :-/
The Smart is OK, but not the worlds smoothest gearbox, especially when initially selecting 1st to set off unless you're patient with it. Others rave about VW's DSG but I wasn't particularly impressed, the changes were fast, but over all a bit on or off when you wanted to manouvre slowly eg parking.
I'll keep to 'proper' autos or 3 pedals when push comes to shove. :y :y
ive never driven a paddle shift but the idea seems perfect. auto when youre in a jam, manual when u want to thrash it ;D
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.... auto when youre in a jam, manual when u want to thrash it ;D
Exactly. Auto can't keep up with you when you're trying to drive it 'spiritedly' on B roads, but the paddle or manual shift on the selector does work quite well. :y
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I have a bmw E92 330d M Coupe with flappy paddles and if I'm totally honest I don't use the paddles at all. The car is so responsive there is no need to use paddles. I have played with them but just end up getting confused. Mine is left for down and right for up but you look a right tit if you get it wrong. :-[ :-[
When I have had a go with them I find that the car goes back to auto mode if I forget to do anything.
Maybe I'm just getting old but I can't see much point to them. :-/ :-/
Regards
Alan
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I have a bmw E92 330d M Coupe with flappy paddles and if I'm totally honest I don't use the paddles at all. The car is so responsive there is no need to use paddles. I have played with them but just end up getting confused. Mine is left for down and right for up but you look a right tit if you get it wrong. :-[ :-[
When I have had a go with them I find that the car goes back to auto mode if I forget to do anything.
Maybe I'm just getting old but I can't see much point to them. :-/ :-/
Regards
Alan
hi YZ.
So youre saying that the auto is just as fast as if you werre to use the paddles? i suppose if you bung it in sports mode or ''m'' mode lol it would rev to the limiter so a 0 to 60 would be the same?
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I have a bmw E92 330d M Coupe with flappy paddles and if I'm totally honest I don't use the paddles at all. The car is so responsive there is no need to use paddles. I have played with them but just end up getting confused. Mine is left for down and right for up but you look a right tit if you get it wrong. :-[ :-[
When I have had a go with them I find that the car goes back to auto mode if I forget to do anything.
Maybe I'm just getting old but I can't see much point to them. :-/ :-/
Regards
Alan
I find that I'll change down for traffic lights etc when in AUTO using the flappy paddle, then when I set off I've forgotten I'm in manual & only remember after it's red lined & changed up itself ::) ::) ::) SWMBO has NEVER used the car in manual in 18 months of owning the car.
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I have a bmw E92 330d M Coupe with flappy paddles and if I'm totally honest I don't use the paddles at all. The car is so responsive there is no need to use paddles. I have played with them but just end up getting confused. Mine is left for down and right for up but you look a right tit if you get it wrong. :-[ :-[
When I have had a go with them I find that the car goes back to auto mode if I forget to do anything.
Maybe I'm just getting old but I can't see much point to them. :-/ :-/
Regards
Alan
hi YZ.
So youre saying that the auto is just as fast as if you werre to use the paddles? i suppose if you bung it in sports mode or ''m'' mode lol it would rev to the limiter so a 0 to 60 would be the same?
Hi Webby,
The 330d has launch control so nothing to be gained off the lights with paddles. It has steptronic when you knock the stick to the left so this simulates a manual and the paddles as well so as far as I can tell the paddles are a steering wheel version of steptronic ( or whatever it's called now ). :-/
It's a 330d so has no sport mode. :y
As Andy has already said, SWMBO has never used the paddles and probably doesn't even know they exist. ::) ::) ;D
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hmmmm some interesting food for thought.
ill let you knowe after ive saved up for my 458 italia how i get on ;D
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I have a bmw E92 330d M Coupe with flappy paddles and if I'm totally honest I don't use the paddles at all. The car is so responsive there is no need to use paddles. I have played with them but just end up getting confused. Mine is left for down and right for up but you look a right tit if you get it wrong. :-[ :-[
When I have had a go with them I find that the car goes back to auto mode if I forget to do anything.
Maybe I'm just getting old but I can't see much point to them. :-/ :-/
Regards
Alan
hi YZ.
So youre saying that the auto is just as fast as if you werre to use the paddles? i suppose if you bung it in sports mode or ''m'' mode lol it would rev to the limiter so a 0 to 60 would be the same?
Hi Webby,
The 330d has launch control so nothing to be gained off the lights with paddles. It has steptronic when you knock the stick to the left so this simulates a manual and the paddles as well so as far as I can tell the paddles are a steering wheel version of steptronic ( or whatever it's called now ). :-/
It's a 330d so has no sport mode. :y
As Andy has already said, SWMBO has never used the paddles and probably doesn't even know they exist. ::) ::) ;D
sorry mate forgive the stupidity but how come it aint got sport mode? i thought nearly all cars had this? :-/
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sorry mate forgive the stupidity but how come it aint got sport mode? i thought nearly all cars had this? :-/
cos it's got a manual mode! ;)
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sorry mate forgive the stupidity but how come it aint got sport mode? i thought nearly all cars had this? :-/
cos it's got a manual mode! ;)
oh :-[
i thought manuals had it to improve throttle response.
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sorry mate forgive the stupidity but how come it aint got sport mode? i thought nearly all cars had this? :-/
cos it's got a manual mode! ;)
oh :-[
i thought manuals had it to improve throttle response.
I can't say for other makes, but sports mode in a Vauxhall auto makes the 'box hold on longer to each gear, if you had a manual mode you'd not need sports mode cos YOU would decide when it changed, not the g/box ECU.
I think some other cars have a sports setting that will use different ECU maps etc & maybe alter suspension settings etc to make it go round corners better. :y
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I have a bmw E92 330d M Coupe with flappy paddles and if I'm totally honest I don't use the paddles at all. The car is so responsive there is no need to use paddles. I have played with them but just end up getting confused. Mine is left for down and right for up but you look a right tit if you get it wrong. :-[ :-[
When I have had a go with them I find that the car goes back to auto mode if I forget to do anything.
Maybe I'm just getting old but I can't see much point to them. :-/ :-/
Regards
Alan
hi YZ.
So youre saying that the auto is just as fast as if you werre to use the paddles? i suppose if you bung it in sports mode or ''m'' mode lol it would rev to the limiter so a 0 to 60 would be the same?
sorry mate forgive the stupidity but how come it aint got sport mode? i thought nearly all cars had this? :-/
330d redlines at five and a half thousand rpm and is doing a ton at under two and a half thousand rpm so I'm guessing sport mode not suited to this diesel auto set-up. :-/
It pulls like a train regardless of what (auto) gear you are in. Not sure if any diesel auto has sport mode as I'm only familiar with the diesel beemer. You've raised a valid question that maybe someone else with a diesel auto can answer. :y I just assumed that with diesels being low revving, sport mode would not be appropriate. :-/
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I have a bmw E92 330d M Coupe with flappy paddles and if I'm totally honest I don't use the paddles at all. The car is so responsive there is no need to use paddles. I have played with them but just end up getting confused. Mine is left for down and right for up but you look a right tit if you get it wrong. :-[ :-[
When I have had a go with them I find that the car goes back to auto mode if I forget to do anything.
Maybe I'm just getting old but I can't see much point to them. :-/ :-/
Regards
Alan
hi YZ.
So youre saying that the auto is just as fast as if you werre to use the paddles? i suppose if you bung it in sports mode or ''m'' mode lol it would rev to the limiter so a 0 to 60 would be the same?
sorry mate forgive the stupidity but how come it aint got sport mode? i thought nearly all cars had this? :-/
330d redlines at five and a half thousand rpm and is doing a ton at under two and a half thousand rpm so I'm guessing sport mode not suited to this diesel auto set-up. :-/
It pulls like a train regardless of what (auto) gear you are in. Not sure if any diesel auto has sport mode as I'm only familiar with the diesel beemer. You've raised a valid question that maybe someone else with a diesel auto can answer. :y I just assumed that with diesels being low revving, sport mode would not be appropriate. :-/
:y :y :y :y
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330d redlines at five and a half thousand rpm and is doing a ton at under two and a half thousand rpm so I'm guessing sport mode not suited to this diesel auto set-up. :-/
It pulls like a train regardless of what (auto) gear you are in. Not sure if any diesel auto has sport mode as I'm only familiar with the diesel beemer. You've raised a valid question that maybe someone else with a diesel auto can answer. :y I just assumed that with diesels being low revving, sport mode would not be appropriate. :-/
You're missing the point of the sport button. In a Vauxhall Whatever it tells the gearbox to hold on to gears for longer than it would do in 'normal'mode. If you have flappy paddles /manual mode then YOU become the sport mode and tell the gearbox when to change - you don't need a sport button. :y
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a flappy-paddle when connected to a torque-converter gearbox is just the same as moving the stick through the gears - i.e going from "1" to "2", etc.
anything with a torque converter in it will still have the major drawback of a conventional auto transmission, i.e. a gearchange that goes as fast as it wants rather than as fast as you want, is a couple of hundred kilos heavier than a manual and uses about 15% more fuel
a DSG or "manual with paddles" is better but much more complex and expensive, and again cganges gear as fast as it wants, not as fast as you want.
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a DSG or "manual with paddles" is better but much more complex and expensive, and again cganges gear as fast as it wants, not as fast as you want.
But in this case, the point is they change WHEN you want rather than when an ECU wants to. :y :y
whether they're better is a matter of opinion ....... I won't be ordering a DSG VAG auto cos I just didn't like it. Similarly I'm not that taken with SWMBO's Smart gearbox, but if you want a Smart there's no choice. ;)
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But in this case, the point is they change WHEN you want rather than when an ECU wants to. :y :y
No. The flappy paddle just tells the ECU that you'd appreciate it changing gear at its' earliest convenience. The ECU still backs off the torque, makes a (slow) change and brings the torque back up again. Not the same as the driver having control of the clutch and throttle, as the driver can then make a fast, hard change or a smooth, relaxed change as the mood takes him.
Now, flappy paddles connected to a sequential manual box... :-*
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But in this case, the point is they change WHEN you want rather than when an ECU wants to. :y :y
No. The flappy paddle just tells the ECU that you'd appreciate it changing gear at its' earliest convenience. The ECU still backs off the torque, makes a (slow) change and brings the torque back up again. Not the same as the driver having control of the clutch and throttle, as the driver can then make a fast, hard change or a smooth, relaxed change as the mood takes him.
Now, flappy paddles connected to a sequential manual box... :-*
YES!
What do you think a DSG is? ;) ;) ;) or what's underneath in a Smart
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I drove Skoda Superb 2.0tdi 6 months ago. It had VW (Audi) DSG Semi-automatic with flappy paddles and after some driving I managed to make it downshift with them even in hi rev's. I was plesently surprised with it. Only think I didn't like is that he sometimes, when you push it little harder, shift up 0.5 secs before I planed, and then you end 2 gears up wondering what happend :).
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I have a bmw E92 330d M Coupe with flappy paddles and if I'm totally honest I don't use the paddles at all. The car is so responsive there is no need to use paddles. I have played with them but just end up getting confused. Mine is left for down and right for up but you look a right tit if you get it wrong. :-[ :-[
When I have had a go with them I find that the car goes back to auto mode if I forget to do anything.
Maybe I'm just getting old but I can't see much point to them. :-/ :-/
Regards
Alan
Hi Webby,
The 330d has launch control so nothing to be gained off the lights with paddles. It has steptronic when you knock the stick to the left so this simulates a manual and the paddles as well so as far as I can tell the paddles are a steering wheel version of steptronic ( or whatever it's called now ). :-/
It's a 330d so has no sport mode. :y
Doh. :-[ :-[ Apparrantly my D/S shift is my 'sport mode'. ;D ;D I feel rather silly now. ::) ::) :-[
You got there in the end Andy. ;D ;D ;D I told you I was easily confused ;D ;D ;D :y
Regards
Alan
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I had a Citroen C4 Grand Picasso, it was auto, but not as we know it......electric clutch I think, no drag and a slight delay between pushing the go pedal and it going, took some getting used to in busy traffic.... ::) ::)
It also had flappy paddles, think I used them about a dozen times in 3 and a half years of driving it, a bit of fun but I preferred just to leave it in auto..... :y