Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: tunnie on 14 July 2007, 22:45:37

Title: bugger
Post by: tunnie on 14 July 2007, 22:45:37
doing an oil change on the Senator today, along with the oil cooler themostat. Took the sump plug off, old filter ect..... drained the oil. Went to put the sump plug back in, a bit of the thread just fell out of the sump  :'(

Felt funny putting it in, started to tighten ok. But then it just spins  :'( :'( :'(

Its on finger tight at the moment, and is a steady leak  :(

After a long run, and stopped. It dripps about 3 times a min, it then slows down. Done about 60 miles or so, its not gone down on the dip stick as far as i can see, but a sizable patch of oil on the road where it was parked.

Bloody typical, simple thing buggers up!  >:(

Not got the time or tools to fix it (tap sets) halfords had opps all above M12, going to have to bite the bullet and take it anyway around Europe, but just keep topping it up and watch the pressure gauge.

The nut is still tight to the finger.
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 14 July 2007, 22:51:32
Mark, don't take it to europe like that, for goodness sake.

Let's have a look at it. How about a scrapper sump...
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: tunnie on 14 July 2007, 22:53:47
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Mark, don't take it to europe like that, for goodness sake.

Let's have a look at it. How about a scrapper sump...

Scappers no good, no sennys around here.

Have to do something either tomorrow, or next Saturday morning.

No time during the week....

I think I will need an M16 to re-do the thread, and a replacement nut. But got no chance of getting on tomorrow...
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: amigov6 on 14 July 2007, 23:08:49
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doing an oil change on the Senator today, along with the oil cooler themostat. Took the sump plug off, old filter ect..... drained the oil. Went to put the sump plug back in, a bit of the thread just fell out of the sump  :'(

Felt funny putting it in, started to tighten ok. But then it just spins  :'( :'( :'(

Its on finger tight at the moment, and is a steady leak  :(

After a long run, and stopped. It dripps about 3 times a min, it then slows down. Done about 60 miles or so, its not gone down on the dip stick as far as i can see, but a sizable patch of oil on the road where it was parked.

Bloody typical, simple thing buggers up!  >:(

Not got the time or tools to fix it (tap sets) halfords had opps all above M12, going to have to bite the bullet and take it anyway around Europe, but just keep topping it up and watch the pressure gauge.

The nut is still tight to the finger.
:)I think you can get Threadlock or Beadlock from independant motor factors. You'd have to drain your new oil to get a clean thread. Might also be an idea to fit a fibre or rubber washer, not so much as a seal but if the thread's weak you do'nt want it vibrating out while you're driving.
      Might be a little tight undoing it when you get back but probably the lesser of two evils.
          Have a good trip and look after that Senny. [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 14 July 2007, 23:13:30
Can you not get a Helicoil???  they go to the thread of the sump then the sump plug screws into that....shouldn't be much money either :y
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: Markie on 14 July 2007, 23:23:01
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Can you not get a Helicoil???  they go to the thread of the sump then the sump plug screws into that....shouldn't be much money either :y

agreed  :y :y
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: Golfbuddy on 14 July 2007, 23:42:37
Just a thought but would some PTFE tape around the original not help until you could do a more permanent repair?
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: amigov6 on 15 July 2007, 00:54:02
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Just a thought but would some PTFE tape around the original not help until you could do a more permanent repair?
:)I thought that at first but do'nt think it'd last long once oil got hot. [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: Matchless on 15 July 2007, 01:14:35
Not familiar with the senny sumps but the omega ones usually strip the thread on the plug, not in the sump so you might just need another plug.
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: TheBoy on 15 July 2007, 10:10:42
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Not familiar with the senny sumps but the omega ones usually strip the thread on the plug, not in the sump so you might just need another plug.
I'm guessing that it is sump, as bolt is steel, sump ali.  Tractor stripped the sump.

As for helicoils etc, going to that extreme, may as well just tap another.  Annoying thing is, I have a tap from when I did tractor, but its over at Mrs TheBoy's dads, and he's on hols :(
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: tunnie on 15 July 2007, 10:29:30
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Not familiar with the senny sumps but the omega ones usually strip the thread on the plug, not in the sump so you might just need another plug.
I'm guessing that it is sump, as bolt is steel, sump ali.  Tractor stripped the sump.

As for helicoils etc, going to that extreme, may as well just tap another.  Annoying thing is, I have a tap from when I did tractor, but its over at Mrs TheBoy's dads, and he's on hols :(

yeah bit of bugger that, put a old car matt under the car last night, just to top a stain appearing, might take it for a drive and then check the level on the dip, see how much it has dropped.

I kept my eye on the oil pressure gauge, stayed good under load at 5bar.

Does anyone around here local to me have Tap sets?

Tell me more about Helicoil, what is it what does it do if there is no thread on the sump.....
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: TheBoy on 15 July 2007, 10:36:14
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Tell me more about Helicoil, what is it what does it do if there is no thread on the sump.....
Retapping is probably easier tbh in this case...
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: VX1 on 15 July 2007, 10:42:18
What about searching the internet for scrap yards that have senny in might be of some help but if they do then it would be mail ordering the part you want. Worth a try.
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: STMO123 on 15 July 2007, 10:43:15
It's no good trying to retap for the same size sump bolt. The hole in the sump will now be oversize and you'll just make it looser.
When you say the thread 'fell out', it makes me think that there was a steel insert pressed into the alloy sump and its this that has come adrift. More info please Mark.
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: tunnie on 15 July 2007, 10:48:55
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It's no good trying to retap for the same size sump bolt. The hole in the sump will now be oversize and you'll just make it looser.
When you say the thread 'fell out', it makes me think that there was a steel insert pressed into the alloy sump and its this that has come adrift. More info please Mark.

The sump nut came off fine, but i think i over-tightened it previously. When putting the plug back in, feeling with my fingers i felt something loose, it was as shard of alloy which was part of the thread on the sump.

The nut was difficult to get going, but then went fine until it came to tighten with the socket. It goes up to finger tight ok...
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: STMO123 on 15 July 2007, 10:56:02
As a temp fix, you could try some of this 'liquid metal' type glue. I haven't had need of it myself for a while (like 20 years ;D) but I.m sure its still knocking about.
Before you use it however, you would have to make sure that the drain hole was completely free of oil/grease, which might not be that easy.
It should be ok for a while but, of course, is likely to make the permanent repair, when you come to do it, a bit more difficult.

Good luck.
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: TheBoy on 15 July 2007, 10:56:31
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It's no good trying to retap for the same size sump bolt. The hole in the sump will now be oversize and you'll just make it looser.
When you say the thread 'fell out', it makes me think that there was a steel insert pressed into the alloy sump and its this that has come adrift. More info please Mark.
No, he needs to retap next size up - we think his is M14 thread, so M16 next size up.

So, drill 12.5 (? would need to check), then tap with 16x2, buy new 16x2 bolt.
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: STMO123 on 15 July 2007, 10:57:47
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It's no good trying to retap for the same size sump bolt. The hole in the sump will now be oversize and you'll just make it looser.
When you say the thread 'fell out', it makes me think that there was a steel insert pressed into the alloy sump and its this that has come adrift. More info please Mark.
No, he needs to retap next size up - we think his is M14 thread, so M16 next size up.

So, drill 12.5 (? would need to check), then tap with 16x2, buy new 16x2 bolt.

Yep, but for speed.........????

OH, and stop rather overtightening bolts you people :P
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: TheBoy on 15 July 2007, 11:03:28
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It's no good trying to retap for the same size sump bolt. The hole in the sump will now be oversize and you'll just make it looser.
When you say the thread 'fell out', it makes me think that there was a steel insert pressed into the alloy sump and its this that has come adrift. More info please Mark.
No, he needs to retap next size up - we think his is M14 thread, so M16 next size up.

So, drill 12.5 (? would need to check), then tap with 16x2, buy new 16x2 bolt.

Yep, but for speed.........????

OH, and stop rather overtightening bolts you people :P
You can always rely on Tunnie to overtighten/strip/shear bolts ;D - I'm surprised he didn't ruin oil thermostat bolt, trying to undo it the wrong way ;D
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: STMO123 on 15 July 2007, 11:08:24
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It's no good trying to retap for the same size sump bolt. The hole in the sump will now be oversize and you'll just make it looser.
When you say the thread 'fell out', it makes me think that there was a steel insert pressed into the alloy sump and its this that has come adrift. More info please Mark.
No, he needs to retap next size up - we think his is M14 thread, so M16 next size up.

So, drill 12.5 (? would need to check), then tap with 16x2, buy new 16x2 bolt.

Yep, but for speed.........????

OH, and stop rather overtightening bolts you people :P
You can always rely on Tunnie to overtighten/strip/shear bolts ;D - I'm surprised he didn't ruin oil thermostat bolt, trying to undo it the wrong way ;D

 ;D ;D ;D :y

In that case, I dont think he should be attempting to drill a large hole and tap it, nice and straight, whilst underneath a 1.7 tonne car at an angle of 30 degrees. :o
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: TheBoy on 15 July 2007, 11:11:22
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It's no good trying to retap for the same size sump bolt. The hole in the sump will now be oversize and you'll just make it looser.
When you say the thread 'fell out', it makes me think that there was a steel insert pressed into the alloy sump and its this that has come adrift. More info please Mark.
No, he needs to retap next size up - we think his is M14 thread, so M16 next size up.

So, drill 12.5 (? would need to check), then tap with 16x2, buy new 16x2 bolt.

Yep, but for speed.........????

OH, and stop rather overtightening bolts you people :P
You can always rely on Tunnie to overtighten/strip/shear bolts ;D - I'm surprised he didn't ruin oil thermostat bolt, trying to undo it the wrong way ;D

 ;D ;D ;D :y

In that case, I dont think he should be attempting to drill a large hole and tap it, nice and straight, whilst underneath a 1.7 tonne car at an angle of 30 degrees. :o
All joking aside, I think he would be good at tapping, as he can be meticulous and patient (the latter not being my forte ::))
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: tunnie on 15 July 2007, 11:18:56
i don't have the skill to tap it out... trouble is if i take it out, to arradite it up. I will do more damage.

If the leak stays the same, maybe gettings a little more under thinner oil. I can live with that, just checking the level every day. I was planning to anyway....
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: CaptainZok on 15 July 2007, 11:21:01
And if the plug decides to unscrew while your flogging it down an autobahn, you're in deep sh1t.
You really need to sort it before you go Mark.
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: tunnie on 15 July 2007, 11:38:20
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And if the plug decides to unscrew while your flogging it down an autobahn, you're in deep sh1t.
You really need to sort it before you go Mark.


 :( :( :(

Any ideas on something i can use to seal it for now?
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 15 July 2007, 11:40:04
If you're going to nail it across europe and then scrap it afterwards.... then weld it up  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Seriously though, if the threads shagged.. you'll need to helicoil or rethread it...
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: STMO123 on 15 July 2007, 11:44:05
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And if the plug decides to unscrew while your flogging it down an autobahn, you're in deep sh1t.
You really need to sort it before you go Mark.


 :( :( :(

Any ideas on something i can use to seal it for now?

I've just said, haven't I  ::)
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 15 July 2007, 11:47:23
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i don't have the skill to tap it out... .

Yes you do mate, it's a peice of cake.....
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: tunnie on 15 July 2007, 12:02:46
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i don't have the skill to tap it out... .

Yes you do mate, it's a peice of cake.....

Welding it up did come across my mind!

Does anyone here have a range of large tap sets?? - Next Saturday is the last day i can do it, i am willing to drive to anyone who has the sets and appropriate skills!
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 15 July 2007, 12:06:48
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i don't have the skill to tap it out... .

Yes you do mate, it's a peice of cake.....

Welding it up did come across my mind!

Does anyone here have a range of large tap sets?? - Next Saturday is the last day i can do it, i am willing to drive to anyone who has the sets and appropriate skills!

There is a chance I'm off work that day....
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: sassanach on 15 July 2007, 12:25:46
you mean to say your willing to drive all the way to trowbridge in wiltshire for a m14 helicoil kit  when i could simply send it to you  by post tomorrow? ;D ;D
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: TheBoy on 15 July 2007, 12:58:08
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then weld it up
I know you're kidding, but in case Tunnie considers it as an option, you can't easily. Apart from the steel/ali thing, the sump has to come off to be perfectly clean (else oil keeps getting in weld). Rethreading is easier.

Tunnie, you have the skill and the patience ;)

I'm working on trying to get the 16x2 tap, but may be worth you ringing Brackley DIY for cost. Or ring the garage in Brackley for quote? (I could drop it down one day I'm sure??)
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: tunnie on 15 July 2007, 13:03:43
right well... i may have just had some luck.

Went out just now and got my 19 socket, I am not a religious man but praying to the Omega gods, i went to tighten the sump plug  :o

I did it very, very, VERY! gently..... to my pleasure i felt it tighten! Just managed to nip it up. 5 mins later no drip.

So the test is now... take it for a blast....

Be back in 20.... wish me luck!
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: CaptainZok on 15 July 2007, 13:06:00
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right well... i may have just had some luck.

Went out just now and got my 19 socket, I am not a religious man but praying to the Omega gods, i went to tighten the sump plug  :o

I did it very, very, VERY! gently..... to my pleasure i felt it tighten! Just managed to nip it up. 5 mins later no drip.

So the test is now... take it for a blast....

Be back in 20.... wish me luck!
Praying to the Omega gods won't work, its a Senny.  ;D
Hope it works for you.
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 15 July 2007, 13:20:29
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right well... i may have just had some luck.

Went out just now and got my 19 socket, I am not a religious man but praying to the Omega gods, i went to tighten the sump plug  :o

I did it very, very, VERY! gently..... to my pleasure i felt it tighten! Just managed to nip it up. 5 mins later no drip.

So the test is now... take it for a blast....

Be back in 20.... wish me luck!


Tunnie, you saw thread on the plug, and it's been crossed/stripped, it just won't last. It could kill the car.
Sort it out :y
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: TheBoy on 15 July 2007, 14:46:47
I'm not happy with it, but it does appear to be holding...  ...Tunnie now has a plan though :)
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: tunnie on 15 July 2007, 14:48:55
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I'm not happy with it, but it does appear to be holding...  ...Tunnie now has a plan though :)

It does seam to be holding, very slight weap, but no more than what i was previously. However a cunning plan has formed!
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 15 July 2007, 14:49:40
Do tell!
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: CaptainZok on 15 July 2007, 14:56:24
Why do I always cringe when I hear the words "a cunning plan"?
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: tunnie on 15 July 2007, 14:59:22
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Why do I always cringe when I hear the words "a cunning plan"?

Cause we all think of Blackadder  ;)

Cunning plan is gaffer tape....









Nah really its to take it down town, there is a local guy who does stuff for me, zorsts, aircon bits and so on. Usually done cash in hand.... going to ring him up and see if he can re-thread it for me. I will provide the oil to re-fill.
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: john1dart on 15 July 2007, 18:52:58
tunnie
As advised by others this could vibrate out. Blown engine, Europe, hassle.
In case you get stuck, I've got all the helicoil inserts, insert tool, taps, drills etc you'll need, at work. Just let me know what size the orignal thread is and I'll send you all the bits needed to repair, provided I get them back.
Offer's there if you need it.
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: tunnie on 15 July 2007, 18:57:24
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tunnie
As advised by others this could vibrate out. Blown engine, Europe, hassle.
In case you get stuck, I've got all the helicoil inserts, insert tool, taps, drills etc you'll need, at work. Just let me know what size the orignal thread is and I'll send you all the bits needed to repair, provided I get them back.
Offer's there if you need it.

Fantastic, might very well take you up on that!

I think the thread size i stripped is a M14, so apparently i need a M16 with a 2 mm thread to bore out the new one, along with the appropriate  size nut. Do you have these?

I will be away from home all week, so might have to post it to my office if thats ok?
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: TheBoy on 15 July 2007, 19:03:30
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tunnie
As advised by others this could vibrate out. Blown engine, Europe, hassle.
In case you get stuck, I've got all the helicoil inserts, insert tool, taps, drills etc you'll need, at work. Just let me know what size the orignal thread is and I'll send you all the bits needed to repair, provided I get them back.
Offer's there if you need it.

Fantastic, might very well take you up on that!

I think the thread size i stripped is a M14, so apparently i need a M16 with a 2 mm thread to bore out the new one, along with the appropriate  size nut. Do you have these?

I will be away from home all week, so might have to post it to my office if thats ok?
Its a friggin bolt!
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: STMO123 on 15 July 2007, 19:05:43
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Quote
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tunnie
As advised by others this could vibrate out. Blown engine, Europe, hassle.
In case you get stuck, I've got all the helicoil inserts, insert tool, taps, drills etc you'll need, at work. Just let me know what size the orignal thread is and I'll send you all the bits needed to repair, provided I get them back.
Offer's there if you need it.

Fantastic, might very well take you up on that!

I think the thread size i stripped is a M14, so apparently i need a M16 with a 2 mm thread to bore out the new one, along with the appropriate  size nut. Do you have these?

I will be away from home all week, so might have to post it to my office if thats ok?
Its a friggin bolt!

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

Good job he's got gadget arms, or he'd be totally rather useless.
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 15 July 2007, 19:09:48
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tunnie
As advised by others this could vibrate out. Blown engine, Europe, hassle.
In case you get stuck, I've got all the helicoil inserts, insert tool, taps, drills etc you'll need, at work. Just let me know what size the orignal thread is and I'll send you all the bits needed to repair, provided I get them back.
Offer's there if you need it.

Fantastic, might very well take you up on that!

I think the thread size i stripped is a M14, so apparently i need a M16 with a 2 mm thread to bore out the new one, along with the appropriate  size nut. Do you have these?

I will be away from home all week, so might have to post it to my office if thats ok?
Its a friggin bolt!

Your too hard on Tunnie......one technical error  ::) ;D

PS just say 'thingy' next time Tunnie......you carnt go wrong then  :y
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: john1dart on 15 July 2007, 19:12:45
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Quote
Quote
tunnie
As advised by others this could vibrate out. Blown engine, Europe, hassle.
In case you get stuck, I've got all the helicoil inserts, insert tool, taps, drills etc you'll need, at work. Just let me know what size the orignal thread is and I'll send you all the bits needed to repair, provided I get them back.
Offer's there if you need it.

Fantastic, might very well take you up on that!

I think the thread size i stripped is a M14, so apparently i need a M16 with a 2 mm thread to bore out the new one, along with the appropriate  size nut. Do you have these?

I will be away from home all week, so might have to post it to my office if thats ok?
Its a friggin bolt!

Its a friggin' screw. Bolts only have part thread.  :y
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: john1dart on 15 July 2007, 19:18:39
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Quote
tunnie
As advised by others this could vibrate out. Blown engine, Europe, hassle.
In case you get stuck, I've got all the helicoil inserts, insert tool, taps, drills etc you'll need, at work. Just let me know what size the orignal thread is and I'll send you all the bits needed to repair, provided I get them back.
Offer's there if you need it.

Fantastic, might very well take you up on that!

I think the thread size i stripped is a M14, so apparently i need a M16 with a 2 mm thread to bore out the new one, along with the appropriate  size nut. Do you have these?

I will be away from home all week, so might have to post it to my office if thats ok?

I'm on a course all week but can call into work to get the bits no probs. I'll even get you a washer (ring, not machine).
If it is M14, you shoud be ok tapping M16, but when tightening, try not to shear the Engine  :y
Title: Re: bugger
Post by: tunnie on 15 July 2007, 20:57:14
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tunnie
As advised by others this could vibrate out. Blown engine, Europe, hassle.
In case you get stuck, I've got all the helicoil inserts, insert tool, taps, drills etc you'll need, at work. Just let me know what size the orignal thread is and I'll send you all the bits needed to repair, provided I get them back.
Offer's there if you need it.

Fantastic, might very well take you up on that!

I think the thread size i stripped is a M14, so apparently i need a M16 with a 2 mm thread to bore out the new one, along with the appropriate  size nut. Do you have these?

I will be away from home all week, so might have to post it to my office if thats ok?
Its a friggin bolt!

Its a friggin' screw. Bolts only have part thread.  :y

 ;D ;D ;D

John - That would be great i will drop you a PM :y