Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Taxi_Driver on 16 August 2007, 19:23:20
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Not sure the min speed......it certainly doesnt do it at standstill....
Ive tried this at around 30-40mph......
Touch the brakes lightly and keep the brakes lightly applied......then floor the accelerator......you carry on slowing down.....its like the ignition has been cut by the ecu.
Take your foot of the brake while still flooring the accelerator......then after a sec or two power comes back on
I discovered it by accident when trying to bed in new pads a bit faster than normal ::)
Does it on my Omega auto.....VeccyC man and James's VeccyB man
Anyone else noticed........or am i the only idiot that goes around with throttle and brake on at the same time ;D or are you all gonna rush and try it ;D
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I THINK this only works on DBW cars....
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Yes, it will, one reason wire DBW have 2 brake switches
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Might sound a bit dim but is it possible to have a simple explanation of Drive By Wire. Have I got it or not. Advantages and disadvantages? :-[
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ANd mine >:(
If you are not careful it can stuff a fast launch
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Might sound a bit dim but is it possible to have a simple explanation of Drive By Wire. Have I got it or not. Advantages and disadvantages? :-[
DBW are the later engines (2.2 - 2.6 - 3.2)
The throttle is controlled by the ECU, where as the older ones have a physical cable linkage to the throttle body.
Advantages are it just takes an ECU enable to get cruise working!
DBW cars tend to have a lighter gas pedal, as there is no cable to pull...
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Might sound a bit dim but is it possible to have a simple explanation of Drive By Wire. Have I got it or not. Advantages and disadvantages? :-[
Basically Rob -
One earlier prefacelift cars (like yours), you press the thrrotle pedal in, and it pulls a cable. This cable opens the throttle bodies, allowing the air into the cylinders. The ECU knows the throttle position, from the throttle position sensor, which senses where the butterflies are.
On later cars, there is no cable attached to the throttle pedal. When you press the throttle on one of these cars, it sends an electronic signal, which talks to the engine ECU, and in turn operates a little motor contraption on the throttle body, and then opens it in the same way. This is DBW - Drive by wire. Slightly more effiecient than a cable driven system.
This has many advantages - including no need for an actuator / cable for cruise control ;)
Does this answer your question?
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Might sound a bit dim but is it possible to have a simple explanation of Drive By Wire. Have I got it or not. Advantages and disadvantages? :-[
DBW are the later engines (2.2 - 2.6 - 3.2)
The throttle is controlled by the ECU, where as the older ones have a physical cable linkage to the throttle body.
Advantages are it just takes an ECU enable to get cruise working!
DBW cars tend to have a lighter gas pedal, as there is no cable to pull...
Don't have LPG fitted on mine, so it don't think it's going to be lighter? ::)
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Might sound a bit dim but is it possible to have a simple explanation of Drive By Wire. Have I got it or not. Advantages and disadvantages? :-[
DBW are the later engines (2.2 - 2.6 - 3.2)
The throttle is controlled by the ECU, where as the older ones have a physical cable linkage to the throttle body.
Advantages are it just takes an ECU enable to get cruise working!
DBW cars tend to have a lighter gas pedal, as there is no cable to pull...
Thanks for that tunnie. I can put that down as today's learn something new everyday :y
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Might sound a bit dim but is it possible to have a simple explanation of Drive By Wire. Have I got it or not. Advantages and disadvantages? :-[
Basically Rob -
One earlier prefacelift cars (like yours), you press the thrrotle pedal in, and it pulls a cable. This cable opens the throttle bodies, allowing the air into the cylinders. The ECU knows the throttle position, from the throttle position sensor, which senses where the butterflies are.
On later cars, there is no cable attached to the throttle pedal. When you press the throttle on one of these cars, it sends an electronic signal, which talks to the engine ECU, and in turn operates a little motor contraption on the throttle body, and then opens it in the same way. This is DBW - Drive by wire. Slightly more effiecient than a cable driven system.
This has many advantages - including no need for an actuator / cable for cruise control ;)
Does this answer your question?
Cheers James. I think I have got it now. So I have Drive By Cable not Drive By Wire.
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Might sound a bit dim but is it possible to have a simple explanation of Drive By Wire. Have I got it or not. Advantages and disadvantages? :-[
Basically Rob -
One earlier prefacelift cars (like yours), you press the thrrotle pedal in, and it pulls a cable. This cable opens the throttle bodies, allowing the air into the cylinders. The ECU knows the throttle position, from the throttle position sensor, which senses where the butterflies are.
On later cars, there is no cable attached to the throttle pedal. When you press the throttle on one of these cars, it sends an electronic signal, which talks to the engine ECU, and in turn operates a little motor contraption on the throttle body, and then opens it in the same way. This is DBW - Drive by wire. Slightly more effiecient than a cable driven system.
This has many advantages - including no need for an actuator / cable for cruise control ;)
Does this answer your question?
Both have advantages/disadvantages, neither is better than other. It is a brave man who says one is more efficient than the other.
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Might sound a bit dim but is it possible to have a simple explanation of Drive By Wire. Have I got it or not. Advantages and disadvantages? :-[
Basically Rob -
One earlier prefacelift cars (like yours), you press the thrrotle pedal in, and it pulls a cable. This cable opens the throttle bodies, allowing the air into the cylinders. The ECU knows the throttle position, from the throttle position sensor, which senses where the butterflies are.
On later cars, there is no cable attached to the throttle pedal. When you press the throttle on one of these cars, it sends an electronic signal, which talks to the engine ECU, and in turn operates a little motor contraption on the throttle body, and then opens it in the same way. This is DBW - Drive by wire. Slightly more effiecient than a cable driven system.
This has many advantages - including no need for an actuator / cable for cruise control ;)
Does this answer your question?
Both have advantages/disadvantages, neither is better than other. It is a brave man who says one is more efficient than the other.
I guess each to their own opinion, but I like DBW :)
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Might sound a bit dim but is it possible to have a simple explanation of Drive By Wire. Have I got it or not. Advantages and disadvantages? :-[
Basically Rob -
One earlier prefacelift cars (like yours), you press the thrrotle pedal in, and it pulls a cable. This cable opens the throttle bodies, allowing the air into the cylinders. The ECU knows the throttle position, from the throttle position sensor, which senses where the butterflies are.
On later cars, there is no cable attached to the throttle pedal. When you press the throttle on one of these cars, it sends an electronic signal, which talks to the engine ECU, and in turn operates a little motor contraption on the throttle body, and then opens it in the same way. This is DBW - Drive by wire. Slightly more effiecient than a cable driven system.
This has many advantages - including no need for an actuator / cable for cruise control ;)
Does this answer your question?
Both have advantages/disadvantages, neither is better than other. It is a brave man who says one is more efficient than the other.
I guess each to their own opinion, but I like DBW :)
Can't really think of any advantages of DBW. Easy cruise enable with right equipment. Less clutter under bonnet perhaps?
Can think of lots of disadvantages, esp after seeing a couple fail. Also, can't blip the throttle when working under bonnet is a pain.
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Might sound a bit dim but is it possible to have a simple explanation of Drive By Wire. Have I got it or not. Advantages and disadvantages? :-[
Basically Rob -
One earlier prefacelift cars (like yours), you press the thrrotle pedal in, and it pulls a cable. This cable opens the throttle bodies, allowing the air into the cylinders. The ECU knows the throttle position, from the throttle position sensor, which senses where the butterflies are.
On later cars, there is no cable attached to the throttle pedal. When you press the throttle on one of these cars, it sends an electronic signal, which talks to the engine ECU, and in turn operates a little motor contraption on the throttle body, and then opens it in the same way. This is DBW - Drive by wire. Slightly more effiecient than a cable driven system.
This has many advantages - including no need for an actuator / cable for cruise control ;)
Does this answer your question?
Both have advantages/disadvantages, neither is better than other. It is a brave man who says one is more efficient than the other.
I guess each to their own opinion, but I like DBW :)
Can't really think of any advantages of DBW. Easy cruise enable with right equipment. Less clutter under bonnet perhaps?
Can think of lots of disadvantages, esp after seeing a couple fail. Also, can't blip the throttle when working under bonnet is a pain.
Yep, I will agree that it's a PITA not being able to blip throttle when working on the car. It's also a lot easier just to pop off a connector, than to remove the throttle cable, cruise cable, and their associated mounting brackets etc.
I guess if one was to be really picky, you could say DBW is safer. I'll never forget in my old P reg Elite (before I joined here), I floored the gas once, let my foot off - and it kept racing! (Cable problem).
I will also agree that, if DBW motor fails, it's not funny!
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Yep, I will agree that it's a PITA not being able to blip throttle when working on the car. It's also a lot easier just to pop off a connector, than to remove the throttle cable, cruise cable, and their associated mounting brackets etc.
I guess if one was to be really picky, you could say DBW is safer. I'll never forget in my old P reg Elite (before I joined here), I floored the gas once, let my foot off - and it kept racing! (Cable problem).
I will also agree that, if DBW motor fails, it's not funny!
Our old works vans, back in the 80s use to have those crappy thick mats which the accelerator could jam in, keeping throttle hard pinned to floor.... ...soon got used to putting foot under and lifting when it happened....
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off topic question, but on drive by cable engines (e.g 2.5)
Can tech2 set the rpm to a set level, say, 2,000 rpm for 5 mins?
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off topic question, but on drive by cable engines (e.g 2.5)
Can tech2 set the rpm to a set level, say, 2,000 rpm for 5 mins?
I doubt it - no way of letting air in...
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off topic question, but on drive by cable engines (e.g 2.5)
Can tech2 set the rpm to a set level, say, 2,000 rpm for 5 mins?
Tech2 can adjust idle, but not that high. Range is similar to DBW engines.
Of course, you could always adjust throttle cable to be far to tight ;)
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off topic question, but on drive by cable engines (e.g 2.5)
Can tech2 set the rpm to a set level, say, 2,000 rpm for 5 mins?
I doubt it - no way of letting air in...
So what controls ICV then ;)
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Can't really think of any advantages of DBW. Easy cruise enable with right equipment. Less clutter under bonnet perhaps?
It allows the engine management to implement some more efficient strategies, such as opening the throttle wider, advancing the ignition and using a leaner mixture when you're cruising. It can also dashpot the throttle electronically so if you stamp on the pedal or lift off suddenly it controls the rate of movement of the throttle so the fuelling doesn't lag behind the airflow, resulting in cleaner emissions. (and cr@p throttle response when you blip it!)
.. but from a driver's point of view it makes little difference.
you could say DBW is safer
It will have dual redundant position inputs from both the pedal and the throttle so if the two go out of sync it knows about it and shuts the throttle. If the throttle doesn't respond to the command to shut it it will limit the revs by cutting injectors, and if you hit the brakes it will also cut the power, which explains TDs observations. It ought to be pretty difficult to have an uncommanded full throttle passenger ride, but we are talking about software doing all this :-/ :-X
I remember a story about a Laguna 2 taking its owner for a rapid tour of the French autoroute network, but that's porobably urban myth, or a poor excuse for speeding ;D
Kevin
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you could say DBW is safer
It will have dual redundant position inputs from both the pedal and the throttle so if the two go out of sync it knows about it and shuts the throttle. If the throttle doesn't respond to the command to shut it it will limit the revs by cutting injectors, and if you hit the brakes it will also cut the power, which explains TDs observations. It ought to be pretty difficult to have an uncommanded full throttle passenger ride, but we are talking about software doing all this :-/ :-X
I remember a story about a Laguna 2 taking its owner for a rapid tour of the French autoroute network, but that's porobably urban myth, or a poor excuse for speeding ;D
Kevin
Yes, exactly, how well are the error routines debugged. In my experience of what the ECU does under error conditions....
But the 'failsafe' on the cable systems is just a spring :-/
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One disadvantage of DBW is : In my old 2.0 GLS manual, if I needed to accelerate in a hurry, I merely put the foot down, and she would go. In my current 2.2 Auto, if you put the foot down cause some idiot in a BM is paying little regard to the 30 limit, the car sort of stops and thinks for a second "ah he wants to go a bit faster does he?, have to think about this, right lets put in a bit more fuel, and open the air intake a bit". I recon the DBW electrons are a bit slow, sod this speed of light stuff. ;D ;D And that's after a major tune up from Mark DTM ;D ;D
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One disadvantage of DBW is : In my old 2.0 GLS manual, if I needed to accelerate in a hurry, I merely put the foot down, and she would go. In my current 2.2 Auto, if you put the foot down cause some idiot in a BM is paying little regard to the 30 limit, the car sort of stops and thinks for a second "ah he wants to go a bit faster does he?, have to think about this, right lets put in a bit more fuel, and open the air intake a bit". I recon the DBW electrons are a bit slow, sod this speed of light stuff. ;D ;D And that's after a major tune up from Mark DTM ;D ;D
Yeah, I reckon my leg is faster than the servos...
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you could say DBW is safer
It will have dual redundant position inputs from both the pedal and the throttle so if the two go out of sync it knows about it and shuts the throttle. If the throttle doesn't respond to the command to shut it it will limit the revs by cutting injectors, and if you hit the brakes it will also cut the power, which explains TDs observations. It ought to be pretty difficult to have an uncommanded full throttle passenger ride, but we are talking about software doing all this :-/ :-X
I remember a story about a Laguna 2 taking its owner for a rapid tour of the French autoroute network, but that's porobably urban myth, or a poor excuse for speeding ;D
Kevin
Yes, exactly, how well are the error routines debugged. In my experience of what the ECU does under error conditions....
But the 'failsafe' on the cable systems is just a spring :-/
Which is missing on the Elite :(
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you could say DBW is safer
It will have dual redundant position inputs from both the pedal and the throttle so if the two go out of sync it knows about it and shuts the throttle. If the throttle doesn't respond to the command to shut it it will limit the revs by cutting injectors, and if you hit the brakes it will also cut the power, which explains TDs observations. It ought to be pretty difficult to have an uncommanded full throttle passenger ride, but we are talking about software doing all this :-/ :-X
I remember a story about a Laguna 2 taking its owner for a rapid tour of the French autoroute network, but that's porobably urban myth, or a poor excuse for speeding ;D
Kevin
Yes, exactly, how well are the error routines debugged. In my experience of what the ECU does under error conditions....
But the 'failsafe' on the cable systems is just a spring :-/
Which is missing on the Elite :(
It wasn't on Sunday?
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i thought it was? - or was it the tiny clip!?!?
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i thought it was? - or was it the tiny clip!?!?
Ah, yes, both your cruise cable E clip and your throttle cable clip are missing. But the throttle spring is still there ;)
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One disadvantage of DBW is : In my old 2.0 GLS manual, if I needed to accelerate in a hurry, I merely put the foot down, and she would go. In my current 2.2 Auto, if you put the foot down cause some idiot in a BM is paying little regard to the 30 limit, the car sort of stops and thinks for a second "ah he wants to go a bit faster does he?, have to think about this, right lets put in a bit more fuel, and open the air intake a bit". I recon the DBW electrons are a bit slow, sod this speed of light stuff. ;D ;D And that's after a major tune up from Mark DTM ;D ;D
This sounds similar to SWMBO's auto Astra 16v 1.6 (DBW) When I hold my car on the foot brake it will creep against the brakes, my wife's car doesn't. As you lift your foot from the brake it's as though the gearbox needs a second or so to 'switch back on' so if you're too quick hitting the throttle after lifting the brake pedal you get a sudden thud as the gearbox catches up.
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One disadvantage of DBW is : In my old 2.0 GLS manual, if I needed to accelerate in a hurry, I merely put the foot down, and she would go. In my current 2.2 Auto, if you put the foot down cause some idiot in a BM is paying little regard to the 30 limit, the car sort of stops and thinks for a second "ah he wants to go a bit faster does he?, have to think about this, right lets put in a bit more fuel, and open the air intake a bit". I recon the DBW electrons are a bit slow, sod this speed of light stuff. ;D ;D And that's after a major tune up from Mark DTM ;D ;D
This sounds similar to SWMBO's auto Astra 16v 1.6 (DBW) When I hold my car on the foot brake it will creep against the brakes, my wife's car doesn't. As you lift your foot from the brake it's as though the gearbox needs a second or so to 'switch back on' so if you're too quick hitting the throttle after lifting the brake pedal you get a sudden thud as the gearbox catches up.
Thats normal......i used to have a v6 vectra auto......that did the same.....the ecu puts the g/b into N after about 5 secs if you dont move and your foot is on the brake......imagine the thump from the autobox when stamping on the throttle with a v6! :o