Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Taxi_Driver on 27 August 2007, 08:02:51
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There may have been a thread on this......if so...soz ive missed it and carnt find it.
But its a bit alarming to me that a 2.2 has suffered a HG failure :o
Tunnie.....Do you know why? Whats the symptons? Has it been compression tested?
Whats the mileage on your Dads 2.2?
Soz for all the questions.....if there is a thread on it, please just point me in the right direction :y
Good luck with it :)
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no problem mate:
I suspect old coolant, not sure when it was last changed. Car was dealer serviced, and until recently my dads car was used for business and I was reluctant to touch it in case i break anything! or shear anything!
It has not been compression tested, and the local mechanic could not get the sniffer liquid to change colour, however:
There is a strong smell of petrol in the header tank.
There are no visable leaks of coolant, when i ran the car for 5 mins in the garage, heaters on full, off, ect no leaks.
If the head tank was filled up to the line, and then left. If started 1 hour later it would run rough, say on 3 pots, blip the revs a few times and it would clear.
Coolant seams to go down, once the engine has been off for a while. It seams to be fine when running, i was constantly checking the level when the engine was running.
Switched it off, came back 20 mins later, the level dropped quite a bit.
Miles is 92k
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It doesn't show many of the symptoms of HG failure. Possible the coolant leak is unrelated. BUT there is a 'rich exhaust' smell from header...
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certainly worth compression testing it - decent bit of kit to have and change from £20.....will give an indication of potentially other issues.....
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Tunnies Dads Car has the Exact same problem i had with mine and mine was the Head Gasket.
If tunnie starts the car in the morning it will misfire for a couple of seconds then clear up, this is caused be water leaking into one of the pots and then being burnt off Its a common fault for the Head Gasket to go if the coolent is left to degrade, I am thinking its pot number one that will be his problem as this is the one that had gone on mine and i was told by a garage this was a common fault.
I went to the garage and said i though my head gasket had gone and he told me my symptoms and he was spot on with the misfiring on start up and then clearing with a couple of revs.
But I did get the header tank checked for exhaust gases with that liquid kit that turns from blue to yellow in the presents of hydocarbons
My Head Gasket Failed at 65,000 as the coolent degraded and my car was not really looked after by it preivous owners
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The compression tester will be going on it, before anything is taken apart..
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The compression tester will be going on it, before anything is taken apart..
:)
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Defo worth compression testing it first......as TB suggests the water leak maybe unrelated.....coz mine does the same....it leaks water when you turn it off after its been running......doesnt leak when running.
It used to leak this way quite a lot.......but ive found and fixed most of the leaks......but it still does it slightly and i carnt find anymore leaks.......so its either using the coolant or leaking very slightly from somewhere i carnt find......so i just live with it and top it now and then.
But mine before i found the worst of the leaks used to leave a puddle under the car after it had been switched off for a while....i guess you have checked for this?
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Best case senario i can think of......its got a water leak......plus the coil pack is on its way out.....
Carnt explain the exhaust gas smell from the coolant bottle tho....as TB and you say....but suprised it didnt fail a sniffer test :-/
Worst case....its the head gasket :(
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no puddles of coolant after its been parked.
Most signs point to head gasket, strong petrol smell in the header tank, but i am too suprised it failed the snifer test.
Just had Jaime around complaining why i had not the head off my dads 2.2 yet, simple fact is I am scared!
To big areas: cam belt removal, and second dropping the exhaust.
Its also the fact its my dads car, if it were mine i'd happily get stuck in. But being my dads, i don't like touching it.
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no puddles of coolant after its been parked.
Most signs point to head gasket, strong petrol smell in the header tank, but i am too suprised it failed the snifer test.
Just had Jaime around complaining why i had not the head off my dads 2.2 yet, simple fact is I am scared!
To big areas: cam belt removal, and second dropping the exhaust.
Its also the fact its my dads car, if it were mine i'd happily get stuck in. But being my dads, i don't like touching it.
get that head off - theres nothing scarey in the strip down and theres enough expertise local to you and on here to answer any concerns you have.....Go Tunnie Go..........
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Cambelt and exhaust easy enough.. it's the inlet manifold I'll be swearing it more ;)
We'll do a thorough test/diagnosis before pulling it to bits.
You can get the exhaust bolts soaking in plus gas before I come over..
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no puddles of coolant after its been parked.
Most signs point to head gasket, strong petrol smell in the header tank, but i am too suprised it failed the snifer test.
Just had Jaime around complaining why i had not the head off my dads 2.2 yet, simple fact is I am scared!
To big areas: cam belt removal, and second dropping the exhaust.
Its also the fact its my dads car, if it were mine i'd happily get stuck in. But being my dads, i don't like touching it.
get that head off - theres nothing scarey in the strip down and theres enough expertise local to you and on here to answer any concerns you have.....Go Tunnie Go..........
too scared! :-[
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Cambelt and exhaust easy enough.. it's the inlet manifold I'll be swearing it more ;)
We'll do a thorough test/diagnosis before pulling it to bits.
You can get the exhaust bolts soaking in plus gas before I come over..
They are the studs i can see on the passenger side?
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Cambelt and exhaust easy enough.. it's the inlet manifold I'll be swearing it more ;)
We'll do a thorough test/diagnosis before pulling it to bits.
You can get the exhaust bolts soaking in plus gas before I come over..
They are the studs i can see on the passenger side?
Yes, all manifold studs with heatshield off.. also - all the (3?) downpipe to manifold nuts, accessed from underneith..
I'm more familiar with the V6... but we can do this no problems..
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i can see 2 with the heat shield on...
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i can see 2 with the heat shield on...
Take the bugger off then ;)
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i can see 2 with the heat shield on...
If your gonna start without doing compression test......my advice is take the heat shield off and soak the the exhaust manifold studs in whatever......i used wd40..plus gas is also recommended.....just soak em in it....and leave overnight.....you dont want to go snapping any studs of Tunnie.....so easy on un doing them :y you might find on turning the copper nuts the studs come out with them.....but thats fine :y
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Seeing as it looks like you are not going to machine the head, does the manifold (and associated risk with studs) need to come off?
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Seeing as it looks like you are not going to machine the head, does the manifold (and associated risk with studs) need to come off?
If I'm helping with this, I'm not going to take anything for granted. The head will be inspected within an inch of it's life with a straight edge / feeler blade, I would want to be very confident it's OK before refitting. Driving back from brum with a failed HG alone should be ok, providing it's not overheated enough to distort anything.
Personal recommendation would be to replace the manifold gasket and flatten the manifold surfaces, because the 4 pots are known for going. However - it is Tunnie's choice - and also Tunnie's risk (!) - that if any studs do break, then it will be a trip to the machine shop for rethreading!
I'm also not re-fitting a used cambelt kit and / or water pump... that would be daft following that work.
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Seeing as it looks like you are not going to machine the head, does the manifold (and associated risk with studs) need to come off?
If I'm helping with this, I'm not going to take anything for granted. The head will be inspected within an inch of it's life with a straight edge / feeler blade, I would want to be very confident it's OK before refitting. Driving back from brum with a failed HG alone should be ok, providing it's not overheated enough to distort anything.
Personal recommendation would be to replace the manifold gasket and flatten the manifold surfaces, because the 4 pots are known for going. However - it is Tunnie's choice - and also Tunnie's risk (!) - that if any studs do break, then it will be a trip to the machine shop for rethreading!
I'm also not re-fitting a used cambelt kit and / or water pump... that would be daft following that work.
My concern with the head - and it assumes the coolant loss and HG are related - is that the coolant loss was noticed, topped up, then driven to brum and back. Would the coolant start to channel a groove? Also, apparently there was no heat in cabin, so therefore the temp gauges would work (again, apparently not reading, or reading low), so we don't know how hot it got.
My fear is, I know Tunnie's dad is in a hurry for car back, that you will strip down, find it needs machining, then have to come back again - I know you have no issue with doing this, but I also know how very busy you are, on and off the forum.
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Seeing as it looks like you are not going to machine the head, does the manifold (and associated risk with studs) need to come off?
If I'm helping with this, I'm not going to take anything for granted. The head will be inspected within an inch of it's life with a straight edge / feeler blade, I would want to be very confident it's OK before refitting. Driving back from brum with a failed HG alone should be ok, providing it's not overheated enough to distort anything.
Personal recommendation would be to replace the manifold gasket and flatten the manifold surfaces, because the 4 pots are known for going. However - it is Tunnie's choice - and also Tunnie's risk (!) - that if any studs do break, then it will be a trip to the machine shop for rethreading!
I'm also not re-fitting a used cambelt kit and / or water pump... that would be daft following that work.
My concern with the head - and it assumes the coolant loss and HG are related - is that the coolant loss was noticed, topped up, then driven to brum and back. Would the coolant start to channel a groove? Also, apparently there was no heat in cabin, so therefore the temp gauges would work (again, apparently not reading, or reading low), so we don't know how hot it got.
My fear is, I know Tunnie's dad is in a hurry for car back, that you will strip down, find it needs machining, then have to come back again - I know you have no issue with doing this, but I also know how very busy you are, on and off the forum.
Whist I hope you're wrong, I do agree that there is a chance.
Well, if it needs machining, then it'll have to be done! I guess we won't see that, until it's off though. The only way any time could be saved, is if Tunnie wants to get his fingers dirty and remove the head now, and I'll help with re-fitting!
I don't mind either way..
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no puddles of coolant after its been parked.
Most signs point to head gasket, strong petrol smell in the header tank, but i am too suprised it failed the snifer test.
Just had Jaime around complaining why i had not the head off my dads 2.2 yet, simple fact is I am scared!
To big areas: cam belt removal, and second dropping the exhaust.
Its also the fact its my dads car, if it were mine i'd happily get stuck in. But being my dads, i don't like touching it.
You dont need to take the exhaust off......undo the manifold to cat bolts and the exhaust will stay where it is :y
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the best solution would be for me to remove the head first, but i am still not confident in doing this on my dads car. I would do it on mine, but not his.... i don't want to shear something!
AFAIK there was heat in the cabin, and the temp stayed at a constant 85.....
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For the price of a skim i would do i for peace of mind its only about 30 quid.
If you are iffy about doing your dads car tunnie make sure you tell him the price a garage would charge which is around the £500 mark and if it was VX Bah It could be a million pounds.
As long as you take your time there is not alot that can go wrong its just time consuming but with james helpping out it will be a days work tops for the both of you.
Dont forget when removing the head there is a bracket that gos from the bottom of the intake manifold to the engine block the numpty who did my head gasket snapped this bolt off in the engine block and left the bracket on it took me ages to find out what the ringing noise was when driving it was the bracket tapping against the engine block but the noise was traveling up the bracket (mount) into the throttle body.
Since i cant drill the snapped bolt out i had to remove the bracket (mount) from the intake manifold to the engine block, And i cant go back to the guy who did as it took me 7 months to track it down >:( >:( and he will just say it had nothing to do with me,
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the best solution would be for me to remove the head first, but i am still not confident in doing this on my dads car. I would do it on mine, but not his.... i don't want to shear something!
AFAIK there was heat in the cabin, and the temp stayed at a constant 85.....
He said it was cold in car (or did I dream that bit?).
You can do it! ;)
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the best solution would be for me to remove the head first, but i am still not confident in doing this on my dads car. I would do it on mine, but not his.... i don't want to shear something!
AFAIK there was heat in the cabin, and the temp stayed at a constant 85.....
Ah....risky shift.
Its ok for somebody else to bugger it but not you! :y
You realy need to take that head off and get it skimmed before James comes for the re-fit.
Removal is not difficult and that way you know when its going to be fixed plus if a stud snaps then it can be sorted by the machine shop at the same time.
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the best solution would be for me to remove the head first, but i am still not confident in doing this on my dads car. I would do it on mine, but not his.... i don't want to shear something!
AFAIK there was heat in the cabin, and the temp stayed at a constant 85.....
Ah....risky shift.
Its ok for somebody else to bugger it but not you! :y
You realy need to take that head off and get it skimmed before James comes for the re-fit.
Removal is not difficult and that way you know when its going to be fixed plus if a stud snaps then it can be sorted by the machine shop at the same time.
Presumably, 90 degrees past tdc is 'safe' from piston/valve view, how does tunnie know where TDC is on a 2.2?
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Seeing as it looks like you are not going to machine the head, does the manifold (and associated risk with studs) need to come off?
If I'm helping with this, I'm not going to take anything for granted. The head will be inspected within an inch of it's life with a straight edge / feeler blade, I would want to be very confident it's OK before refitting. Driving back from brum with a failed HG alone should be ok, providing it's not overheated enough to distort anything.
Personal recommendation would be to replace the manifold gasket and flatten the manifold surfaces, because the 4 pots are known for going. However - it is Tunnie's choice - and also Tunnie's risk (!) - that if any studs do break, then it will be a trip to the machine shop for rethreading!
I'm also not re-fitting a used cambelt kit and / or water pump... that would be daft following that work.
My concern with the head - and it assumes the coolant loss and HG are related - is that the coolant loss was noticed, topped up, then driven to brum and back. Would the coolant start to channel a groove? Also, apparently there was no heat in cabin, so therefore the temp gauges would work (again, apparently not reading, or reading low), so we don't know how hot it got.
My fear is, I know Tunnie's dad is in a hurry for car back, that you will strip down, find it needs machining, then have to come back again - I know you have no issue with doing this, but I also know how very busy you are, on and off the forum.
Hasnt Tunnie lent his Dad either the Senny or his Omega? That way theres no big rush.....id have thought :-/.....or perhaps he has lent his Dad the rust bucket.....hence why his Dad is in a big rush to get his Omega back ;D
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He won't drive the Senny (understandable), and won't drive manuals (sensible man).
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well i have started........ i moved it into the garage! ;D
I ran it for about 5 minutes in the garage (doors open!)
No leaks spotted what so ever, all around the HBV is dry, nothing spotted on the garage floor.
Now the car had not been started in several weeks, last time it ran was in front of Jaime about 2 weeks ago.
It started on the first click of the key and ran smooth, no white smoke out the back or anything. No power loss, pickup was good.
After 5 mins of running, i switched off and opened the header tank, firstly there was a little too much pressure for my liking. Second their was a strong smell of petrol, and 'fumes' could be seen coming out of the tank.
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You have lights in there, start stripping :y
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Don't know if this will work .... going back in time to the days of the Cortina .. used to check for head gasket problems by running engine with rad cap off and looking for bubbles ...might work on yours ??? should be easier to see with a clear(ish) header tank ... cortina's had no such finesse !!
The theory was, with no cap on the gas pressure in the cylinder will always be greater than the water pressure in the system, so leak would increase and be easier to spot ...
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Don't know if this will work .... going back in time to the days of the Cortina .. used to check for head gasket problems by running engine with rad cap off and looking for bubbles ...might work on yours ??? should be easier to see with a clear(ish) header tank ... cortina's had no such finesse !!
The theory was, with no cap on the gas pressure in the cylinder will always be greater than the water pressure in the system, so leak would increase and be easier to spot ...
I think petrol fumes is conclusive enough :-/ ?
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i need food!! - my start stripping it down tomorrow, i could see the heat shield bolts.....
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To tell the truth I'm puzzled by the petrol fumes .... unburned petrol can only enter the cylinder during vacuum, and so should not leak into water, water should leak into cylinder, if the HG leak is sufficiently large. If the leak is still "small" then the major movement will be under maximum compression .. ie after ignition when the pressure in the cylinder is highest, but the fumes would no longer be of "petrol" but of "exhaust" ... burned fuel. If the leak is of such a size that it is occuring during the compression stroke itself I would expect a major loss of performance as that/those cylinders have nothing to work on. If unburned fuel is getting into the system for some other reason I'm inclined to look elsewhere, but I don't know Omega's well enough.
:(
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To tell the truth I'm puzzled by the petrol fumes .... unburned petrol can only enter the cylinder during vacuum, and so should not leak into water, water should leak into cylinder, if the HG leak is sufficiently large. If the leak is still "small" then the major movement will be under maximum compression .. ie after ignition when the pressure in the cylinder is highest, but the fumes would no longer be of "petrol" but of "exhaust" ... burned fuel. If the leak is of such a size that it is occuring during the compression stroke itself I would expect a major loss of performance as that/those cylinders have nothing to work on. If unburned fuel is getting into the system for some other reason I'm inclined to look elsewhere, but I don't know Omega's well enough.
:(
When I smelt it, it wasn't petrol fumes, but that 'rich running' exhaust fumes (car was on choke)
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To tell the truth I'm puzzled by the petrol fumes .... unburned petrol can only enter the cylinder during vacuum, and so should not leak into water, water should leak into cylinder, if the HG leak is sufficiently large. If the leak is still "small" then the major movement will be under maximum compression .. ie after ignition when the pressure in the cylinder is highest, but the fumes would no longer be of "petrol" but of "exhaust" ... burned fuel. If the leak is of such a size that it is occuring during the compression stroke itself I would expect a major loss of performance as that/those cylinders have nothing to work on. If unburned fuel is getting into the system for some other reason I'm inclined to look elsewhere, but I don't know Omega's well enough.
:(
Im a bit confused as well TBH,,,,but im no engine expert....tho if its using loads of water and not leaking it....as previous posts say....HG has to the suspect imo
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In which case you are probably 99% correct, HG has probably lifted rather than split and is leaking cylinder to water jacket under compression, I've known them to act like a little flapper valve. Good thing about that is it is unlikely to have damaged either the head or block unless its done a very large number of miles (hydraulic erosion) or been like it a long time (corrosion). Reading the thread neither seem that likely.
as you say .. start stripping !!! :)
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Hi Tunnie don't want to scare monger or anything but some of what your describing "loss of water when standing but no loss when running, misfire when started but goes once cleared " sounds like a cracked head which is sealing up as metal temp rises with running unlike a HG which normally can't hold pressure as temp rises. Once you get the head off get it crack tested before spending money on skimming. Usually the firm that does one will be able to do both. That may be why the sniffer didn't work once engine was warm, crack was sealed so no fumes.
Others on here have a lot more experience of 2.2 probably know better. but might be worth checking :)
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Hi Tunnie don't want to scare monger or anything but some of what your describing "loss of water when standing but no loss when running, misfire when started but goes once cleared " sounds like a cracked head which is sealing up as metal temp rises with running unlike a HG which normally can't hold pressure as temp rises. Once you get the head off get it crack tested before spending money on skimming. Usually the firm that does one will be able to do both. That may be why the sniffer didn't work once engine was warm, crack was sealed so no fumes.
Others on here have a lot more experience of 2.2 probably know better. but might be worth checking :)
Never heard of cracked heads on modern Vauxhalls - porous ones on late 80s engines maybe. Much better heads than BMW junk ;)
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Getting worried about my 2.2 now :(
Tunnies Dads has done 90k+ mine is now on nearly 102k :-/
Tho mine will need to have new head gasket for the manifold blow prob......when i get round to sorting it...with James's help
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Hi Tunnie don't want to scare monger or anything but some of what your describing "loss of water when standing but no loss when running, misfire when started but goes once cleared " sounds like a cracked head which is sealing up as metal temp rises with running unlike a HG which normally can't hold pressure as temp rises. Once you get the head off get it crack tested before spending money on skimming. Usually the firm that does one will be able to do both. That may be why the sniffer didn't work once engine was warm, crack was sealed so no fumes.
Others on here have a lot more experience of 2.2 probably know better. but might be worth checking :)
Never heard of cracked heads on modern Vauxhalls - porous ones on late 80s engines maybe. Much better heads than BMW junk ;)
As i said i bow to superior knowledge. As my grandad used to say " least expected happens most" whatever that means I think he was a boy scout ;D
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There is another test you can do Tunnie to see if the HG has gone and that is to put your hand over the tail pipe and see if it gets very hot very quickly, I mean if you can't keep your hand over the pipe for more than 5 seconds. When the HG went on my 2.0ltr my mechanic done this and thats how he new it was the HG also there was a lot of pressure build up in the header tank. Worth a try at least you will know for defo.
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Just started reading this thread and i had exactly the same symptons on my 2.0. Took off head gasket head and block all looked fine had head skimmed put it back together and runs fine(apart from using more petrol that is down to lambda sensor i think). So i wouldnt worry about it being anything else..
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my 2.2 is on 102k, and thats going to get regular coolant changes!
99% sure its HG
The compression test should be conclusive.
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my 2.2 is on 102k, and thats going to get regular coolant changes!
99% sure its HG
The compression test should be conclusive.
but you'll have the head off before then..... ;)
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Right.....lets get some common sense into this thread shall we!
1) Petrol Fumes in the header tank.
More than possible, The first piston stroke pulls in the fuel air mix with the inlet valve open, the second stroke squashes it....if the gasket is suspect, some of this petrol air mix can get pushed through the fire ring on the head gasket and into the water.
2) Compression test
If you think this will conclusively show headgasket failure, think again. Its likely to show absolutely nothing particularly given that this is not a complete gasket failure (like some K series engines suffer). You might at best see a slight drop but, this may only be within the allowed tolerances between cylinders!
3) Header tank pressure.
The header will be being pressurised slightly by the compression stroke and more by the firing stroke.
4) Is it common
No, this is indactive of a poorly maintained engine which has not had the required coolant changes and the 50:50 antifreeze mix maintained. The lack of inhibitor in the system will be affecting the head casting and the composite head gasket material. Stick to the correct mix and change intervals and you wont get a failure of this sort.
[size=72]5) GET THAT BLOODY HEAD OFF AND GET IT SKIMMED![/size]
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Yep As I have already said in this post if you dont look after your coolent (anifreeze and change it every so often the anifreeze degrades and the coolent will in time eat away and corrode the head where it joins the block, it only needs to do it slightly as then the pressure forces a small gap between the head and the gasket.
Mine went like this as the coolent was not changed with old owners, now for the price of a bottle of anifreeze i change the coolent every year to be on the safe side its not as if its a hard job and take as long as it does to wash the car.
Just make sure you take your plugs out for the skim, The guy who did mine never and i cant get number 4 plug out now but lucky for me they were brand new so ill worry about that later when it comes to changing them
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Yep As I have already said in this post if you dont look after your coolent (anifreeze and change it every so often the anifreeze degrades and the coolent will in time eat away and corrode the head where it joins the block, it only needs to do it slightly as then the pressure forces a small gap between the head and the gasket.
Mine went like this as the coolent was not changed with old owners, now for the price of a bottle of anifreeze i change the coolent every year to be on the safe side its not as if its a hard job and take as long as it does to wash the car.
Just make sure you take your plugs out for the skim, The guy who did mine never and i cant get number 4 plug out now but lucky for me they were brand new so ill worry about that later when it comes to changing them
Yes, I agree, I change coolant very frequently (about every 2 yrs in MV6, even though its 5yr Red), and at least annually in the Rover (in the vain hope it helps with the K series HG)...
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I've not checked but I have a feeling that coolant change is not specified in the service booklet that comes with the car (pre facelift anyway). Does this mean that any vehicle which is serviced accordingly (eg at Vx ) in its early years (I suspect most of ours), will have been neglected in that respect and therefore likely have the beginnings of head (and oil coller) damage?
My 2.5 was serviced at Vx up until I bought it - its '98 and I bought it in 2004 - so potentially 6 years with no coolant change (not to mention I didn't change it straight away..).
Agreed its a cheap and easy peasy job so no excuses now this is known..
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I've not checked but I have a feeling that coolant change is not specified in the service booklet that comes with the car (pre facelift anyway). Does this mean that any vehicle which is serviced accordingly (eg at Vx ) in its early years (I suspect most of ours), will have been neglected in that respect and therefore likely have the beginnings of head (and oil coller) damage?
My 2.5 was serviced at Vx up until I bought it - its '98 and I bought it in 2004 - so potentially 6 years with no coolant change (not to mention I didn't change it straight away..).
Agreed its a cheap and easy peasy job so no excuses now this is known..
Prefacelifts had standard coolant, so should be every 2 years (MAX!), similar to brake fluid. Whether a dealer does it is another matter...
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Right.....lets get some common sense into this thread shall we!
1) Petrol Fumes in the header tank.
More than possible, The first piston stroke pulls in the fuel air mix with the inlet valve open, the second stroke squashes it....if the gasket is suspect, some of this petrol air mix can get pushed through the fire ring on the head gasket and into the water.
2) Compression test
If you think this will conclusively show headgasket failure, think again. Its likely to show absolutely nothing particularly given that this is not a complete gasket failure (like some K series engines suffer). You might at best see a slight drop but, this may only be within the allowed tolerances between cylinders!
3) Header tank pressure.
The header will be being pressurised slightly by the compression stroke and more by the firing stroke.
4) Is it common
No, this is indactive of a poorly maintained engine which has not had the required coolant changes and the 50:50 antifreeze mix maintained. The lack of inhibitor in the system will be affecting the head casting and the composite head gasket material. Stick to the correct mix and change intervals and you wont get a failure of this sort.
[size=72]5) GET THAT BLOODY HEAD OFF AND GET IT SKIMMED![/size]
Don't mince your words, Mark ;D ;)
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been telling you for ages on this thread Tunnie..nice and easy head off...dont be too scared....its not your car anyway ;D ;D
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I've not checked but I have a feeling that coolant change is not specified in the service booklet that comes with the car (pre facelift anyway). Does this mean that any vehicle which is serviced accordingly (eg at Vx ) in its early years (I suspect most of ours), will have been neglected in that respect and therefore likely have the beginnings of head (and oil coller) damage?
My 2.5 was serviced at Vx up until I bought it - its '98 and I bought it in 2004 - so potentially 6 years with no coolant change (not to mention I didn't change it straight away..).
Agreed its a cheap and easy peasy job so no excuses now this is known..
Prefacelifts had standard coolant, so should be every 2 years (MAX!), similar to brake fluid. Whether a dealer does it is another matter...
This operation is what the dealers call a "call up" its recomended and advised to the customer when its due like the brake fluid but as its extra to the service its up to the customer to pay for it not the dealer to do it FOC. Most customers who are ignorant about cars say no dont wont the extra cost of b/fluid or coolant changes :-[
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Me, Tunnie and Markie made good progress yesterday.
Cambelt and aux belt off,
Fuel pipes, Injeector rail, inlet manifold off
Electricals off
Exhaust downpipe off
Coolant pipes off
Cam sensor out
Camcover off
Rear timing cover off
Camshafts out, all caps and lifters carefully stored in their original positions for refitment
Head removed!!!
Exhaust manifold removed from cylinder head with no snapped studs.
All exhaust manifold studs extracted to be refitted with new ones.
Father Tunnie had a VERY lucky escape with the cambelt on this one. The right hand idler was shot to bits, and the belt was soooo slack that it wasn't even sitting on it. Thankfully no signs the belt had slipped, so we'll be OK to renew with a new cambelt kit.
And this car was meant to have had a cambelt kit change by VX 10,000 miles ago. Looking at the state of the pulleys, all I could say was "my ars*e!"
Cylinder head will now go to machine shop for checking and / or resurfacing, as I had no accurate enough way of checking for distortion.
Tunnie, now the head is off and cams are out - do the paraffin test to make sure all the valves are seated well.
At the moment, we may not remove valves and stem seals due to time constraints. Car is low mileage and uses no oil, and has good compression, so probably not yet necessary.
Then after all that... we did a bit of a speedy combined effort, and removed the shot oil cooler from Tunnie's LPG facelift proeject.
Then for the rebuild...
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very pruductive day, and of course Tunnie wil now see the head removal is not difficult ;)
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very pruductive day, and of course Tunnie wil now see the head removal is not difficult ;)
:o :o :o
Dunno about that, could not have done it without James....
Like to say a HUGE thanks to James for popping over and helping, its a long distance for him to come, and feel bad now he had prang on the way back!
We were dead lucky with the cambelt, the dealer said it changed the kit on the invoice, did they 'dangle berries'!! Bloody scumbag dealers telling fibbs and charge for work they did not bloody do!!!
What sodding annoys me is my dad paid for that work to be done, was done after we bought it from the lease company.
Any who, todays task is to clean up the around the head area, get rid of the old gasket. Get it nice and clean for re-fitting.
Also going to fit the oil cooler to the Elite today :D