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Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Nickffc on 19 September 2006, 20:27:25

Title: coolant low......!
Post by: Nickffc on 19 September 2006, 20:27:25
not long had my car and already something is not right....

2000 3.0 MV6 estate....

coolant low warning on the dash, looked underneath and saw water dripping from middle of car, around about the back of the engine...!!!!

topped up about two pints of water... drove i for about 15 miles and no leak....??????

any ideas fellas....!!!!!

ECC not working at the moment, being fiixed soon by the gararge i got the car from...... faulty vapourizer...or something like that????? all i know its behined the dash and it all has to come out to get to it.....!!!

cheers
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Timbuk on 19 September 2006, 20:29:45
Sounds like a HBV to me
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Del Boy on 19 September 2006, 20:46:18
Quote
Sounds like a HBV to me

Yeah have to agree with timbuk on this thats why he should be an expert  ;D
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: TheBoy on 19 September 2006, 21:34:14
HBV (Heater Bypass Valve) is the likely culprit. £26 from dealer.

Whats not working with ECC?
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Nickffc on 19 September 2006, 22:45:00
Quote
HBV (Heater Bypass Valve) is the likely culprit. £26 from dealer.

Whats not working with ECC?


it's not blowing cold......

when i went to look at the car before i bought it the AC didnt blow cold....i told the gararge that i whould buy it if they got it working. The day before i picked it up they got the system re-gassed, when i picked it up the next day it still didnt work...! i was told that when they picked it up for the AC place it worked fine blowing very cold...so.....i took the car back for them to sort it and now i'm being told that the vaporizer it knackerd and needs replacing....(at there cost) it went in today to get done....but....got a call this afternoon to be told that the part is on speical order and wont be in for three weeks........:(....i've got the car back so i'm just waiting now......
i've been told that this unit is behined the dash....and the whole dash needs to come out so they can get to it...

i was thinking of just giving the car back and getting my money back...but it's such a lovery car and in very good condition considering it's on 107k
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Nickffc on 19 September 2006, 22:49:56
is the HBV a common problem......? and is i the start of somthing more serious>>!!!!!!!
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: RonaldMcBurger on 19 September 2006, 22:57:09
Heater not blowing properly and leak near back of engine? HBV for 1000000000000% certain. I think. Perhaps.

Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Nickffc on 19 September 2006, 22:58:41
it blows hot fine......but not ice cold......



did you get my PM about the mirror?
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Timbuk on 19 September 2006, 22:58:57
Quote
is the HBV a common problem......? and is i the start of somthing more serious>>!!!!!!!

Yep, common problem, quite simple to do if a bit awkward. Can leak onto the Dis pack, so is advisible to change asap if faulty.
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Nickffc on 19 September 2006, 23:02:47
water involved i take it.....and whats a dis pack?
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Timbuk on 19 September 2006, 23:09:31
Quote
water involved i take it.....and whats a dis pack?

Yep, water involved ,HBV and Dis pack both sit at the back of the engine underneath the scuttle panel
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Nickffc on 19 September 2006, 23:13:12
ok.....thanks. is there a "how to" on the forum on how to get to these....?
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Timbuk on 19 September 2006, 23:23:23
Quote
ok.....thanks. is there a "how to" on the forum on how to get to these....?


No,ive just been looking for you and i dont think there is, but if you search for the key words there is plenty of related topics ;)
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Nickffc on 19 September 2006, 23:36:50
nice one....didnt think of that.....i'll give it a try......

cheers
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: TheBoy on 20 September 2006, 09:56:39
HBV replacement - take off wipers and scuttle to get better access. Behind drivers side bank of cylinders you should see the beast, 3 coolant hoses and a small vacuum pipe goes to it. Fiddly due to lack of space, but easy job.
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: sophos9 on 20 September 2006, 12:54:37
Quote
topped up about two pints of water... drove i for about 15 miles and no leak....??????

hi mate, others have already diagnosed the problem but make sure you get some antifreeze your coolant system, minimum of 50/50!

HTH
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Nickffc on 20 September 2006, 23:05:09
Quote
HBV replacement - take off wipers and scuttle to get better access. Behind drivers side bank of cylinders you should see the beast, 3 coolant hoses and a small vacuum pipe goes to it. Fiddly due to lack of space, but easy job.


nice one fella........blimy this site is the dogs nuts......!!!



50/50 anti........didnt know that....thanks


dont suppose its a "on the shelf" item at vauxhall..........!!!! :o
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: sophos9 on 20 September 2006, 23:14:58
Yea, Vx will have it. Check what color the coolant you already have is. Blue is normal, red is long life.... Coolant does not only help with cooling, its got corrosion inhibitors, the last thing you want is scaling blocking your coolant ways!!

 :D
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Allenm on 21 September 2006, 08:45:42
Quote
Quote
HBV replacement - take off wipers and scuttle to get better access. Behind drivers side bank of cylinders you should see the beast, 3 coolant hoses and a small vacuum pipe goes to it. Fiddly due to lack of space, but easy job.


nice one fella........blimy this site is the dogs nuts......!!!



50/50 anti........didnt know that....thanks


dont suppose its a "on the shelf" item at vauxhall..........!!!! :o

It will be off the shelf and is sold in 1 Litre bottles.  Part number for the long life red is 93170402 and is £2.07+VAT per litre.  If you still have blue, it may well be worth a drain and flush, in which case you will need upto 9.5 litres of coolant so 4/5 bottles of anti-freeze mixed with soft water depending on how well you manage to drain it.


Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 21 September 2006, 09:45:33
Rain water works well as it is naturaly soft......
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Kev on 21 September 2006, 11:25:56
Vx now only sell the long life red coolant, so you're probably better going for the flush and change, unless you want to pay extra for the blue stuff from an accessory shop, which isn't as good by the way, and is dearer than the Vx longlife.  ::)
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: TheBoy on 21 September 2006, 13:25:09
According to Vx, you can mix their Red with blue (only get 2yrs use though, not 5yr). I don't think you can always do this with other brands...
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Nickffc on 21 September 2006, 21:33:20
ok...well got down to halfords to get a t25 trox drive......

got the scuttle off with not much problem, had a look at the HBV and do you think i could get it to leak.....no chance!!!!! in fact no leak from anywhere....... :o
it did leak earlier today and replaced about 2 pints of water.......but when your looking for it...it wont

so....do i get the HBV and hope it leaks or..........i dunno what!!!!!

BTW.......£34.50  vauxhall in kingston....... i think there making it up as they go along....?
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: CaptainZok on 21 September 2006, 21:36:29
It may only leak when the heater controls are at a certain setting, mine leaked when left on the cold setting, but I've heard others say theirs leaked when switched to hot.
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: TheBoy on 21 September 2006, 21:37:38
check it with the climate set to different settings, and with aircon on or off...
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: CaptainZok on 21 September 2006, 21:41:18
V0090566947   337C3 BY-PASS VALVE   27.60 EACH plus vat from Bolton VX dealer couple of weeks ago
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Nickffc on 22 September 2006, 19:16:42
you wernt kidding about fiddly job.......been trying for and hour now and still can get the bugger off.....?

any tips?

i've had a good look at the HBV and cant see any signs of a leak???

nick (with sore hands)
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Kev on 22 September 2006, 19:39:56
If there are no signs of a leak at the HBV you should probably strip off the plenum and intake so you can see better where the leak is coming from.  :-/

It could be the coolant pipe at the rear of the engine, or the coolant bridge, etc. The only way to know for sure is to strip it, it's not a big job, plus if you find it is the HBV, it'll be a doddle to replace while stripped.  ;)
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Timbuk on 22 September 2006, 20:32:19
Water leaking from back of engine in the middle, got to be HBV surely :-?
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Kev on 22 September 2006, 20:36:10
Quote
Water leaking from back of engine in the middle, got to be HBV surely :-?
You've got a coolant pipe going in the back of the engine, the coolant bridge for transferring water between the heads is also at the rear.

The only way to be sure is to get the plenum and intake off, that way we'll know for sure.  ;)

I know the HBV is common, but that don't mean it's definately at fault here, especially if there are no signs of it leaking just by feeling around it.  ::)
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Timbuk on 22 September 2006, 20:42:43
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Quote
Water leaking from back of engine in the middle, got to be HBV surely :-?
You've got a coolant pipe going in the back of the engine, the coolant bridge for transferring water between the heads is also at the rear.

The only way to be sure is to get the plenum and intake off, that way we'll know for sure.  ;)

I know the HBV is common, but that don't mean it's definately at fault here, especially if there are no signs of it leaking just by feeling around it.  ::)

Valid point kev, easy to take those few extra bits off to get a decent look!!! Didn't think you would be able to see the coolent bridge with just the plenum off ?
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Nickffc on 22 September 2006, 20:57:14
ok....so now i've now changed the HBV even though it looked ok.......dont have time tonight to test it properly so will let the missis drive tomorrow while i'm at work.......

new problem is.....temperture gauge now not working.....!!!!   is the temperture sensor near where i would of been tinkering around....just thought i may of pulled off the conector in error.......

knackered now........dinner beer and bed......!!!!!
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Kev on 22 September 2006, 21:09:10
Quote
ok....so now i've now changed the HBV even though it looked ok.......dont have time tonight to test it properly so will let the missis drive tomorrow while i'm at work.......

new problem is.....temperture gauge now not working.....!!!!   is the temperture sensor near where i would of been tinkering around....just thought i may of pulled off the conector in error.......

knackered now........dinner beer and bed......!!!!!
The sensor is located on the coolant bridge, in the area where you were working at the rear of the V and is just a spade connector, so it's probably just been pulled off.

Might have a bit of trouble trying to get it back on though, two second job though with the plenum and intake off.  ::)
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Nickffc on 22 September 2006, 21:11:55
sorry for being stupid....but whats the "plenum" and wots it look like?
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Kev on 22 September 2006, 21:12:24
Quote
Didn't think you would be able to see the coolent bridge with just the plenum off ?
You can, but you're better to take the infeed off as well, again not a big job and makes it all far easier.  ;)
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Kev on 22 September 2006, 21:13:05
Quote
sorry for being stupid....but whats the "plenum" and wots it look like?
The big silver bit on top of the engine that says Eco-Tec.  ;)

Marks How2 for the rocker gaskets shows how to remove it, you can find it here. (http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1152564281)
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Timbuk on 22 September 2006, 21:15:04
Quote
Quote
Didn't think you would be able to see the coolent bridge with just the plenum off ?
You can, but you're better to take the infeed off as well, again not a big job and makes it all far easier.  ;)

Yep, sorry kev just realised you said take intake off aswell as the plenum ;)
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Nickffc on 22 September 2006, 21:23:02
infeed....wherees that?

so if i take the plenum off will that give me more room to get to the back of the engine?.....are the any gaskets that will need changing if i take it off.....?

when i did the HBV i undid the wiper arms and moved it round anitclockwise to give me a better chance of getting to the valve.....

couldnt get the wipers compleatly out as the plenum is in the way......

lets hope i dont have to go this far....!!!

as i siad there were no signs of a leak fron the HBV i didnt really no what to look for.... the old HBV is clean with no brown water marks indicating any loss of water under pressure....

the last car i worked on was quite a while ago......but i suppose its just like riding a bike........!!!!!!
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Timbuk on 22 September 2006, 21:25:55
You only need to remove the wiper arms!!!! so you can remove the scuttle panel to gain better access. Removing the plenum and intake will make it much easier to see
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Kev on 22 September 2006, 21:31:40
Quote
infeed....wherees that?

so if i take the plenum off will that give me more room to get to the back of the engine?.....are the any gaskets that will need changing if i take it off.....?

when i did the HBV i undid the wiper arms and moved it round anitclockwise to give me a better chance of getting to the valve.....

couldnt get the wipers compleatly out as the plenum is in the way......

lets hope i dont have to go this far....!!!

as i siad there were no signs of a leak fron the HBV i didnt really no what to look for.... the old HBV is clean with no brown water marks indicating any loss of water under pressure....

the last car i worked on was quite a while ago......but i suppose its just like riding a bike........!!!!!!
Look at the link i posted for the How2, it shows what is required, O-rings etc.  ;)
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Nickffc on 22 September 2006, 21:38:54
hi...stupid here again.........wheres the how2's.......!!!! :o
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Kev on 22 September 2006, 21:41:02
Quote
hi...stupid here again.........wheres the how2's.......!!!! :o
Click here. (http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1152564281)
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Kev on 22 September 2006, 21:43:55
Sixth picture down, you can clearly see the coolant bridge at the rear of the V with sensors mounted, one for the guage, one for the ecu.

The one you need is bang in the centre, I've circled it in the pic below for you...

(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/xthreezero/omegaproject/RearofV2.jpg)
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Nickffc on 22 September 2006, 21:58:47
cheers Kev........ i see what you mean...... there are quite a few places that could spring a leak.....!
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Kev on 22 September 2006, 22:03:12
Quote
cheers Kev........ i see what you mean...... there are quite a few places that could spring a leak.....!
Indeed, it's not that bad a job really, and that way you'll know for sure. It'll also be a lot easier to slide that spade connection back on again.  ;)
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Timbuk on 22 September 2006, 22:09:13
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Quote
cheers Kev........ i see what you mean...... there are quite a few places that could spring a leak.....!
Indeed, it's not that bad a job really, and that way you'll know for sure. It'll also be a lot easier to slide that spade connection back on again.  ;)

Kevs right, it looks worse than it is. I did my oil cooler a few weeks ago, having to remove all this stuff on the way to getting to it. If it wasn't for these guys on here i would't have opened the bonnet let alone do the job myself ;)
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Nickffc on 22 September 2006, 22:38:48
do you know if theres a manual.......! like a haynes or something like that......? although your how2 is very good for some reason i'm still not sure of the sequence of removal and gaskets i'll need....it looks to me that i will only need the ones directly under the plenum?

plenum to inlet bridge and inlet bridge to inlet manifold.....and thats it?
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Kev on 22 September 2006, 23:16:00
Yep, you can get a Haynes manual, either from eBay or Halfords.

Seals required are...

Inlet bridge to head: 90501652, 2 off  
Inlet to Inlet bridge: 90501653, 3 off
Inlet to Plenum O rings: 9118135, 6 off
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Martin_1962 on 23 September 2006, 10:42:28
Mine has a leak but I am worried I'll find a ripped hose - drips out slowly.

HBV would be nice as that is easy - I ought to check the jubilee clips under the HBV on the pipe to the rear of the engine first, but thats plenum off.

The Tee I can reach is nice and tight with no drips
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: TheBoy on 23 September 2006, 16:09:08
Quote
Yep, you can get a Haynes manual, either from eBay or Halfords.

Seals required are...

Inlet bridge to head: 90501652, 2 off  
Inlet to Inlet bridge: 90501653, 3 off
Inlet to Plenum O rings: 9118135, 6 off
TBH, you only really need the plenum O rings (come in pack of 6 for around £10). The other ones I tend to reuse....
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: x25xe on 23 September 2006, 18:56:44
Hi Nick,

How are you getting on with this?  Have you located the leak as yet and got the temp gauge working again?

I note that you live in Hayes like me.  Whereabouts are you?

Welcome to the forum by the way!  ;)
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Nickffc on 23 September 2006, 21:09:07
Quote
Hi Nick,

How are you getting on with this?  Have you located the leak as yet and got the temp gauge working again?

I note that you live in Hayes like me.  Whereabouts are you?

Welcome to the forum by the way!  ;)


yep...got the HBV done.....bit of a pain....but done..... and so far so good no leaks even though the old HBV looked ok.....!

not had a chance to try to get the temp sens done yet.... my wife drive the car more than i do.....! and when i get home it'still to hot to get ya hands in and have a feel around........!!!!


i'm in north hayes...... behined woolworths on the uxbridge road.....
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: TheBoy on 23 September 2006, 21:12:16
Not sure if you can get to that connection without taking plenum off. *May* be able to get to it with just scuttle off.  Tunnie knows exactly where it is, and is at uxbridge from next week, and it skinny enough to climb down the back of the engine...  >:(  ;)
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Nickffc on 23 September 2006, 21:14:17
hahahaha not that skinny surely.......!!!   well i've got monday and tuesday off work so i'll be at home......!!!
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: TheBoy on 23 September 2006, 21:18:06
Quote
hahahaha not that skinny surely.......!!!

He'll blow away in the wind.

It's nice to be a fatty, so I'm not jealous. Oh no, not jealous at all. Honestly....     ...Git  >:(      ;)
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Nickffc on 23 September 2006, 21:19:50
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


whats he doing in uxbridge?
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: TheBoy on 23 September 2006, 21:22:45
Quote
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


whats he doing in uxbridge?
Buggerall, like any student  :P
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Nickffc on 23 September 2006, 23:08:22
student.......?    he's not going to Uxbridge Collage, is he............?
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: TheBoy on 24 September 2006, 09:16:10
Brunel I believe...   ...some easy course to do with 'puters....
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Nickffc on 24 September 2006, 09:38:57
ahh...ok thats just down the road from me.....about ten mins.....

i've not long finished a three year electrical installation course at uxbridge....... that bloody collage is a joke...!!!!
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 24 September 2006, 19:03:32
Quote
Mine has a leak but I am worried I'll find a ripped hose - drips out slowly.

HBV would be nice as that is easy - I ought to check the jubilee clips under the HBV on the pipe to the rear of the engine first, but thats plenum off.

The Tee I can reach is nice and tight with no drips

Nothing to do with the water pipes you tee'd into Martin??
Mine leaks water as well.....tho im convinced it does it when it cools down, dunno why it does tho!
Last time i tried to find the leak.....i had it 7 foot in the air....with the engine running....1/2hr later not one drip!  >:( Park it on my parents drive, which runs downhill, and usually theres a small puddle (50pence size) when i leave.
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: x25xe on 24 September 2006, 19:37:03
Quote
ahh...ok thats just down the road from me.....about ten mins.....

i've not long finished a three year electrical installation course at uxbridge....... that bloody collage is a joke...!!!!


I know what you mean - I went there to do the 16th edition but TBH the course was rubbish as well as the tutoring.  No resorces available etc.  Gave Up

Last year went there again (WHY?) to do my maths in an attempt to start on a route into teaching.  This was also an utter joke tutor could not speak clear English, could not operate a white board etc.  A total Joke and will not be going there again.

You are not far away from me in Hayes, I am near Yeading Library.  Cood luck tomorrow or Tuesday with the temp sender.
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 25 September 2006, 08:47:25
Quote
Quote
Mine has a leak but I am worried I'll find a ripped hose - drips out slowly.

HBV would be nice as that is easy - I ought to check the jubilee clips under the HBV on the pipe to the rear of the engine first, but thats plenum off.

The Tee I can reach is nice and tight with no drips

Nothing to do with the water pipes you tee'd into Martin??
Mine leaks water as well.....tho im convinced it does it when it cools down, dunno why it does tho!
Last time i tried to find the leak.....i had it 7 foot in the air....with the engine running....1/2hr later not one drip!  >:( Park it on my parents drive, which runs downhill, and usually theres a small puddle (50pence size) when i leave.

Its definately coolant and not condensate from the aircon ......
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Martin_1962 on 25 September 2006, 11:06:32
Quote
Quote
Mine has a leak but I am worried I'll find a ripped hose - drips out slowly.

HBV would be nice as that is easy - I ought to check the jubilee clips under the HBV on the pipe to the rear of the engine first, but thats plenum off.

The Tee I can reach is nice and tight with no drips

Nothing to do with the water pipes you tee'd into Martin??
Mine leaks water as well.....tho im convinced it does it when it cools down, dunno why it does tho!
Last time i tried to find the leak.....i had it 7 foot in the air....with the engine running....1/2hr later not one drip!  >:( Park it on my parents drive, which runs downhill, and usually theres a small puddle (50pence size) when i leave.

It is either HBV or the U shaped pipe from HBV to block as I had trouble cutting it
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Nickffc on 26 September 2006, 08:25:24
so..... it's been a few days since i did the HBV valve and even though the old valve looked perfectly fine the leak has now stopped...... :D
went in to london yesterday and got stuck in traffic...2 hours the go 16 miles!!!!!  so if its not gonna leak then its gotta be fixed......

thanks everyone for alll your help......


just got to get the wire back on the temo sensor....!

nick
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Kev on 26 September 2006, 10:35:07
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just got to get the wire back on the temo sensor....!
Unless you can get your wrist to bend at a 180 degree angle, i think you'll need to remove the Plenum.  ;)
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: x25xe on 26 September 2006, 11:06:07
Nice to hear that the leak is solved - good luck with reconnecting the temp sender connection.
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Nickffc on 26 September 2006, 15:29:14
Quote
Quote
just got to get the wire back on the temo sensor....!
Unless you can get your wrist to bend at a 180 degree angle, i think you'll need to remove the Plenum.  ;)

never gonna belive this.......i managed to squeeeeeeeeze my hands round the back of the plenum, found the loose thermo wire, felt around for the sensor and after about 4-5 attempts managed to pop the little oppser on.......woooohooo

me....happy as a pig in shit........!!!

all i got to do now is get the AC fixed..... which is being done in about two weeks time..... just in time for winter...!
Title: Re: coolant low......!
Post by: Kev on 26 September 2006, 15:55:28
Quote
Quote
Quote
just got to get the wire back on the temo sensor....!
Unless you can get your wrist to bend at a 180 degree angle, i think you'll need to remove the Plenum.  ;)

never gonna belive this.......i managed to squeeeeeeeeze my hands round the back of the plenum, found the loose thermo wire, felt around for the sensor and after about 4-5 attempts managed to pop the little oppser on.......woooohooo

me....happy as a pig in shit........!!!

all i got to do now is get the AC fixed..... which is being done in about two weeks time..... just in time for winter...!
Most excellent Dude, you truly are da man.  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

I usually find i can get my hand into places, but struggle to get back out.  ::)

I'll manage to get you to remove that Plenum one of these days though.  ;D