Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Omega-MV6 on 10 September 2006, 16:28:30

Title: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: Omega-MV6 on 10 September 2006, 16:28:30
Hi,

Thought I would post some progress up on the Air intake mods that I have tried today.

I thought rather than go out and spend 100s of £s on silliy gimicks, I would start off with what I have....

.....A 3 Litre Dual Ram air intake.

First off I cut the Airbox up...  :) What did I have to loose?

I'm running a K&N Panel Filter in there, so I have next to no restriction.
I litrally cut the bottom from it.  Looks really neat too.... I will gets some pics up as soon as I can.
Piped a direct cold air pipe up from the left of the fog lamp (cut a nice neat hole in the plastic trim thingy), straight to the modified Airbox.

I'm going to run like this for a bit, The beauty of this though is that the rest of the intake system remains in place....  :)

The results:

Firstly, the power...
....well not much improvment, there is a slight, increase, but nothing to write home about.
She seems to be smoother at lower rev's like around town.

Secondly, the sound....

Well, on Idle it's pretty much normal, and also normal driving it's pretty much the same.
BUT, and this is a HUGE Butt, about as huge as Fern britton's butt.

After 3500RPM, it growls, and I mean growls, it makes people look in amazment. it sounds like I have a 4 litre TVR Engine under the hood.
All this noise comes from under the hood, on the right hand side, you can feel it through the throttle pedal.... :D

So in conclusion, a well worth while hour or so with the saw, if for nothing else, the sound alone is awsome and worth it.
I think I may have 1-2BHP more, but like I say nothing special.

Any Questions feel free to ask.

Cheers.

Matt.

My Disclaimer:
If you decide to cut your Airbox up, don't blame me it you bugger your car up...it's not my fault.
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: STMO123 on 10 September 2006, 16:36:54
Piccies AND sound recording please ;D
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: Omega-MV6 on 10 September 2006, 16:44:18
I will get some tomorrow, as I don't have a Digicam.... but work do... :D

Cheers

Matt
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: Phil on 10 September 2006, 19:05:23
Did mine a few weeks ago:-

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v508/Stoneshed/airintake.jpg)

Little bit more subtle than you as ive swiss cheesed the bottom of the air box with 6 65mm dia holes, and filled one of those with the air intake and im using a Courtenay sport air filter

The sound is good  :)
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: Omega-MV6 on 10 September 2006, 19:12:29
That looks good... Mine is just a hole..  :)

I was thinking of getting rid of those grill thingies; and replacing with that mesh stuff... BTW, like your Grill, where did that come from???

Cheers.

Matt
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: Phil on 10 September 2006, 19:25:38
Grill was from e-bay, from this bloke:-

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VAUXHALL-OMEGA-B-Sport-Grill-NEW_W0QQitemZ330025093775QQihZ014QQcategoryZ43118QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I've got a polished red or polished stainless steel cap to put on the end of the intake, not sure if i want to bring that much attention to it  :)
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: Omega-MV6 on 10 September 2006, 19:35:30
Thats cool, I might have to get on of those grills.

Where did you get the polished silver intake cover from?

Cheers.

Matt
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: Phil on 10 September 2006, 19:52:50
Quote
Where did you get the polished silver intake cover from?

Cheers.

Matt

Off a dodgey bloke from e-bay, had to get into a paypal dispute to get it!!

Think Ripspeed at Hellfarts or Motorworld do them  :)
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: Martin_1962 on 11 September 2006, 09:47:35
Sorry to spoil things but that hole is too low, the standard intake is behind grill above the bumper.

This one is too low and seeing how unpredictable the British weather is, you have a serious risk of getting that intake under water and hydraulicing the engine.

Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: Omega-MV6 on 11 September 2006, 10:25:14
To Quote Father Tedd

"Yeah, well..... :-/


 


.... just break off.... ;)"

In all seriousness though, you have a point, which is why the existing intake, just behind the grill is still in place. (not for the reason you stated however)
Not all of the air comes from that new lower tube, infact I would say the engine does not use that tube to breath very much at all.
The existing intake is fairly large, bigger than the one I have created in the front of the car, although a LOT small than the new one in the Airbox. This will lead to lower pressure in the airbox, and so should not so readily suck up crap, but does allow the air that comes in from the front normal intake to be mixed with the lower pressure colder air from that hole.

We are not that silly.. ;)

Cheers.

Matt
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: rpont on 11 September 2006, 11:33:25
Quote
In all seriousness though, you have a point, which is why the existing intake, just behind the grill is still in place.
Just behind the grill, so in front of the radiator. So why is the new intake getting cooler air???
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: Omega-MV6 on 11 September 2006, 11:58:49
Good point.

I think (Maybe) that it could be to do with the actual SIZE of the intake.

It's quite hard to explain without pictures, but the hole in the bottom of the airbox is now huge.
I guess thats what is making the roar when she takes off.
The feed from the font of the car goes from the front of that hole in an "Airflow Friendly" manner to the big hol in the airbox.

The old intake is still in place, but does not have a direct forward facing inlet and instead relies on the suction of the engine to get air.
Also the path the air takes is not exactly condusive to the RAM effect, it branches down and to the left. This loses means the air looses speed, and then because it's traveling slower, has more time to warm up in the black pipework. The new intake pipe is Silver, as is cold even though the engine is warm. Infact the Airbox is and some of the pipework is even cold after a good run...  :) 8-)

Cheers.

Matt.  

After Thought:
Could I insulate the rame pipes? This would help stop the heat of the Rad getting to them, and warming the air inside even more. Thinking of geting some 'zaust wrap or the special silver foil stuff. :-?
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: Phil on 11 September 2006, 12:46:32
Quote
Sorry to spoil things but that hole is too low, the standard intake is behind grill above the bumper.

This one is too low and seeing how unpredictable the British weather is, you have a serious risk of getting that intake under water and hydraulicing the engine.


Hence the reason why the air feed goes down then up, creating a 'trap', also the air box has 5 other holes in the bottom, so anything that does fly up it can quite easily drop out, the extra holes reduce air pressure and are therefore unlikely to force anything through the filter.

Also the feed is on the drivers side, less likely to hit any deep puddles there but if the water level comes over the fog lights then ill need water wings not a car  :)
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: Paul M on 12 September 2006, 15:56:48
The "Ram air" effect will be non-existant. They use it on superbikes, but even then with a direct feed from the front of the bike (with the appropriate shape intake) leading to a fully-enclosed air box to retain the pressure, it's only worth a few BHP at high speeds (well over 100 MPH). So on an Omega with a much bigger engine, simple tubing to the grille, and holes in the airbox, it's not going to have any effect.

As for the cooler air, you might first want to do something about the hot water supply to the throttle bodies. Not much point striving for cool air only to heat it back up again ;). Again, I think any effect will be marginal; the existing intake supply takes cool (ambient temperature) air before it reaches the radiator.
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: Omega-MV6 on 12 September 2006, 16:12:45
Quote

As for the cooler air, you might first want to do something about the hot water supply to the throttle bodies.

Sorry to sound Stupid, but how?
Can I just unplug the pipe and plug it into an external drain tank?

Quote
The "Ram air" effect will be non-existant. They use it on superbikes, but even then with a direct feed from the front of the bike (with the appropriate shape intake) leading to a fully-enclosed air box to retain the pressure, it's only worth a few BHP at high speeds (well over 100 MPH). So on an Omega with a much bigger engine, simple tubing to the grille, and holes in the airbox, it's not going to have any effect.

So should I vent the wing, (I have a rather cool looking vent handy) and have a cold air feed of only a few MM, rarther than a foot or so?

Still after shielding the rest of the intake system though as that still gets rather warm.

Cheers

Matt
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: Markie on 12 September 2006, 16:15:02
Quote
To Quote Father Tedd

"Yeah, well..... :-/


 


.... just break off.... ;)"


Cheers.

Matt

 ;D ;D ;D ;D looks good - i was after that gril but if he is dodgy, think i will keep looking!!
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: Omega-MV6 on 12 September 2006, 16:34:25
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l97/Omega-MV6/100_1137.jpg)

You can just about see the modded upper and lower grill, although I had just driven 70 miles and the Cold Intake pipe seems to be missing from the lower intake.... hhhmmm, probably on the M5 somewhere... :-[
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: Jim on 12 September 2006, 16:38:34
Thats a nice looking omega 8-)
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: Omega-MV6 on 12 September 2006, 17:03:11
Thanks very much..  8-)

Cheers.

Matt
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: Phil on 12 September 2006, 17:17:36
Quote
i was after that gril but if he is dodgy, think i will keep looking!!

The bloke selling the grill is fine, its the bloke selling the polished end to the intake who was a nightmare  :)

The same grill thats £40 ish on ebay can be bought from Regal for £110 if your feeling realy flushed!!!!
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: Paul M on 12 September 2006, 18:39:33
Quote
Quote

As for the cooler air, you might first want to do something about the hot water supply to the throttle bodies.

Sorry to sound Stupid, but how?
Can I just unplug the pipe and plug it into an external drain tank?

To be honest I don't know why it's there; none of my other cars have heated the inlet. It's probably best to find out why it's done before disconnecting it though. If you do decide to do so, just get some copper pipe the right size for the hoses, and link the two hoses (one at each side of the throttle bodies) thereby bypassing the flow through the TB without disrupting anything else. TBH I still think the effect will be very marginal.

Quote
Quote
The "Ram air" effect will be non-existant. They use it on superbikes, but even then with a direct feed from the front of the bike (with the appropriate shape intake) leading to a fully-enclosed air box to retain the pressure, it's only worth a few BHP at high speeds (well over 100 MPH). So on an Omega with a much bigger engine, simple tubing to the grille, and holes in the airbox, it's not going to have any effect.

So should I vent the wing, (I have a rather cool looking vent handy) and have a cold air feed of only a few MM, rarther than a foot or so?

Still after shielding the rest of the intake system though as that still gets rather warm.

Cheers

Matt

I don't think the length of the tube is the issue, just that there's very little pressure generated by "ram air" except at high speeds, and even then you have to have a properly designed inlet to maximise the small benefit. A 3.0 engine consumes huge amounts of air, it's a very large pump basically so simply putting a small amount of pressure on the intake air isn't going to make much difference at all, maybe a very small reduction in pumping losses.

If you look at the speed a turbocharger has to spin to produce enough airflow for a reasonable power increase (even the low pressure turbos like the one used in the 150 BHP 1.8T VAG engine), it starts to make sense why ram air is ineffective in almost all cars. Some of the Ferraris use it (550 Maranello for one IIRC) but they have a specially shaped scoop on the bonnet, and again specially designed inlet setup, to maximise the effect. Even then it's still marginally effective and only at high speeds.
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: Omega-MV6 on 12 September 2006, 21:12:45
Quote
Quote
Quote

As for the cooler air, you might first want to do something about the hot water supply to the throttle bodies.

Sorry to sound Stupid, but how?
Can I just unplug the pipe and plug it into an external drain tank?

To be honest I don't know why it's there; none of my other cars have heated the inlet. It's probably best to find out why it's done before disconnecting it though. If you do decide to do so, just get some copper pipe the right size for the hoses, and link the two hoses (one at each side of the throttle bodies) thereby bypassing the flow through the TB without disrupting anything else. TBH I still think the effect will be very marginal.

Quote
Quote
The "Ram air" effect will be non-existant. They use it on superbikes, but even then with a direct feed from the front of the bike (with the appropriate shape intake) leading to a fully-enclosed air box to retain the pressure, it's only worth a few BHP at high speeds (well over 100 MPH). So on an Omega with a much bigger engine, simple tubing to the grille, and holes in the airbox, it's not going to have any effect.

So should I vent the wing, (I have a rather cool looking vent handy) and have a cold air feed of only a few MM, rarther than a foot or so?

Still after shielding the rest of the intake system though as that still gets rather warm.

Cheers

Matt

I don't think the length of the tube is the issue, just that there's very little pressure generated by "ram air" except at high speeds, and even then you have to have a properly designed inlet to maximise the small benefit. A 3.0 engine consumes huge amounts of air, it's a very large pump basically so simply putting a small amount of pressure on the intake air isn't going to make much difference at all, maybe a very small reduction in pumping losses.

If you look at the speed a turbocharger has to spin to produce enough airflow for a reasonable power increase (even the low pressure turbos like the one used in the 150 BHP 1.8T VAG engine), it starts to make sense why ram air is ineffective in almost all cars. Some of the Ferraris use it (550 Maranello for one IIRC) but they have a specially shaped scoop on the bonnet, and again specially designed inlet setup, to maximise the effect. Even then it's still marginally effective and only at high speeds.

Thanks, I'll take a look at bypassing the heated TB.

I'm always open to ideas and thoughts. and the ones you have raised are valid.
I'll see if I can improve on my original design, as I have now also lost the cool air pipe so good point to redsign it a bit.

Cheers.

Matt
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: Matchless on 13 September 2006, 09:48:18
"Thanks, I'll take a look at bypassing the heated TB. "

This is OK for summer use but in Autumn / winter / spring you will get ice forming on the edge of the butterfly which will affect throttle response and really upset the idle control loop as air will leak past the butterfly.

Even a small air leak will cause an engine to go to max rpm when not loaded, very embarrasing at junctions :-[ and not very nice for the engine.
Incidentally, this problem is even worse if you use throttle slides...the ice forms on the slide surface and they stick open...very exciting if said slides are fitted to a motorcycle and you are in 'half-asleep cruise to work' mode. Very nearly a brown trouser moment.
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: Omega-MV6 on 13 September 2006, 12:12:28
D'oh, don't need the max revs thing...looks like it will have to stay as it is then.

Well what the hell I have my big noise and 1-2BHP, so happy with that...

Oh BTW, my Spoiler arrived yesterday, off on Holiday though now so my project will have to wait for 2 weeks.
Started stripping the car out already though... here it is:

(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l97/Omega-MV6/100_1140.jpg)

(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l97/Omega-MV6/100_1144.jpg)

It's going on now, as the graphics need to be be appiled over it.

There is also a fully adjustable front Spoiler which I'm saving up for...

Anyone know if you can get lightweight/Carbon Boot and Bonnet?

Cheers.

Matt
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: Sideways on 14 September 2006, 08:58:03
Spoiler looks nice mate. Any ideas hoiw efficient it is?

How much was it and where did you get it from?

Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: evanh on 14 September 2006, 12:59:22
sorry but that spoiler looks awfull, totally ruins the car looks like you have driven through Halfords and it has stuck on the car .
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: nixoro on 14 September 2006, 13:09:38
Its different I cant say I have seen an omega with one of these on, are you going to be updating your thread in the gallery Omega-mv6 :)
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: Omega-MV6 on 02 October 2006, 11:12:07
Hi Guys,

Sorry been on Hols for 2 weeks.

I got it from EBAY.
It cost around 65 Quid, is fully adjusable, and is a pain in the butt to mount.

The pics there show the mounts close together,
Infact I have mounted them on the furthest out mount points.

I does look much nicer now.

As for how well it works.
Well the spare needs to be removed.
I say this because it gets a little nerve racking when turning right at high speeds with the wing and the spare wheel.
For an unloaded pretty standard Spec omega I would say the optimum level for the rear spolier is the second "notch" from the bottom on the rear wing, and the main wing down by 10 Degrees.
I will get pics as soon as I can.
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: Sideways on 02 October 2006, 11:16:16
Sounds good.

Pity you dont have a wind tunnell handy.
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: Omega-MV6 on 02 October 2006, 12:34:26
There is a joke there somewhere about the wife. ;)
I'm off to Castle Coombe soon, so will give some better feed back then.

The engine is my next major concern.
I want to get the cambelt changed and plugs and dis pack done, before i hit the track.

I think my next MOD might be an E-RAM.
Looks quite good- there is a "super" version, this would be cool, as there could be 1 for each ram pipe.
Would make a very intereasting experiment.

I'll order one in the next week or so, and post up the results.

Cheers.

Matt
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: Sideways on 02 October 2006, 12:38:31
Quote
I think my next MOD might be an E-RAM.
Looks quite good- there is a "super" version, this would be cool, as there could be 1 for each ram pipe.
Would make a very intereasting experiment.

I'll order one in the next week or so, and post up the results.

Cheers.

Matt

Where can said siuper E-RAM product be found and what cost is incurred?
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: M-Tek Performance on 02 October 2006, 13:04:40
Quote
There is a joke there somewhere about the wife. ;)
I'm off to Castle Coombe soon, so will give some better feed back then.

The engine is my next major concern.
I want to get the cambelt changed and plugs and dis pack done, before i hit the track.

I think my next MOD might be an E-RAM.
Looks quite good- there is a "super" version, this would be cool, as there could be 1 for each ram pipe.
Would make a very intereasting experiment.

I'll order one in the next week or so, and post up the results.

Cheers.

Matt

You might as well throw your money down the drain for all the good an e-ram will do you.

for £600, there are better ways of making more power!

a chip from us is £130 right now - that will more than likely result in more gains over all!  you could put in a set of cams and still have change from the £600, and have more power again.

Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: Omega-MV6 on 02 October 2006, 13:35:27
Hello,

The Said E-Ram thingy is on the Web, use "E-Ram Electric" as a google search.

How can I get this chip, and who would fit it for me.

Also about the Cams, are there any performance ones for the MV6?

Cheers

Matt
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: M-Tek Performance on 02 October 2006, 13:47:04
Quote
Hello,

The Said E-Ram thingy is on the Web, use "E-Ram Electric" as a google search.

How can I get this chip, and who would fit it for me.

Also about the Cams, are there any performance ones for the MV6?

Cheers

Matt


Yea, i read about it first before posting, but its just the same as things like the good ole Turbo Zet etc.

waste of money.

The MV6 is just a 3.0 V6 mate.  the cams for a normal 3.0 from kent would still be performance cams for the MV6.

If you fancy the drive Hull, i would fit it for you, but its easy enough to fit yourself.

You order the chip from me :)
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: Omega-MV6 on 02 October 2006, 14:34:42
Hi,

That sounds great, I'll take one. How do I pay you.
Can you get me the Cams too?

Do you do Suspension?

Cheers.

Matt
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: M-Tek Performance on 02 October 2006, 14:39:53
Hi Matt,

I need the ECU number and the Chip number before I can sort your chip out.

Payment would be either by paying into my account, cheque, postal order, cash.

I can get the cams, but they arent reground, so i would need a set of 3.0 cams to have machined.

Yes we do suspension, we do pretty much anything mate ;)

Mike

Quote
Hi,

That sounds great, I'll take one. How do I pay you.
Can you get me the Cams too?

Do you do Suspension?

Cheers.

Matt
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: Omega-MV6 on 02 October 2006, 15:02:00
Hi,

Sorry mate, being a dumbass here, where is the ECU and Chip Number?
Do you do Paypal?
If not, I'll do a bank Transfer, just PM me your details.

I'm looking for some suspension for racing and track days mainly. With a little bit of road driving ... (to get to the track)

Need the Shocks and Springs if you have them.

With the cams, I can't get my ones out just yet as I'm using the car to get to work at the moment, so may have to come back to them.

Cheers.

Matt

Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: M-Tek Performance on 02 October 2006, 15:10:55
Hi Mate,

ECU Location

Firstly you need to locate the ECU. This is located in the black box to the right of the battery on the passenger side of the engine.

Open the lid by lightly pulling on the clip at the front of it, and then it will open towards the back of the engine.

The ECU is then on the left of the box.

ECU Removal

The ECU is on a slider. To remove the ECU you need to hold the metal slider, and pull it upwards gently. The ECU will then slide out.

The number is then printed on it - will be similar to 0 261 xxx 589

Remove the ECU from the slider and then prise back the clips holding the ECU together.

There is a plastic clip over the chip - carefully remove this and then make a note of the Chip number.  this will be like 1 261 xxxxxxxxx.

Put it back together is a reversal of the above.

You could get a set of cams from Ebay?

Suspension for the Omega isnt cheap.  I think FK+ do a kit for the Omega, and someone off here i think has them fitted to their car.

HTH

Mike

Quote
Hi,

Sorry mate, being a dumbass here, where is the ECU and Chip Number?
Do you do Paypal?
If not, I'll do a bank Transfer, just PM me your details.

I'm looking for some suspension for racing and track days mainly. With a little bit of road driving ... (to get to the track)

Need the Shocks and Springs if you have them.

With the cams, I can't get my ones out just yet as I'm using the car to get to work at the moment, so may have to come back to them.

Cheers.

Matt

Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: Omega-MV6 on 02 October 2006, 16:07:49
Ok, well I will get that chip number tonight.
I'll post it up tomorrow.

Whats the cost of new suspension for the 'meega.

Cheers.

Matt
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: M-Tek Performance on 02 October 2006, 16:29:12
Quote
Ok, well I will get that chip number tonight.
I'll post it up tomorrow.

Whats the cost of new suspension for the 'meega.

Cheers.

Matt

I will take a look into the meega suspension.

pm me your chip / ecu numbers when you have them.

Mike
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: MikeDundee on 02 October 2006, 19:44:33
I was loking at putting one in myself, e.g., buying it and paying someone else to fit it, yes thats me folks, no money no honey; The advice my friendly expert gave me was don't bother as when you get stuck in traffic, potentially overheat after coming off motorway, or even sitting in traffic in London, better just to fit a K&N air filter. Well I am no expert, so I did'nt bother.  
Title: Re: Air Intake Barstardisation....
Post by: Omega-MV6 on 02 October 2006, 21:24:19
Yes, I think I will give it a miss.
Does look rather Gimicky

Well as promised.. here is the updated Pics
(The others are in the gallery Section)

(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l97/Omega-MV6/100_1149.jpg)

Cheers.

Matt