Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: theolodian on 01 October 2006, 13:37:51
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Has anyone tried to upgrade the front brakes on their Omega? The g/f and I would like to go to the 'ring next year and I don't think that the front brakes will last more than a few turns even taking it a bit easy. I'm not looking for anything crazy, putting bigger rotors with the same calipers and 16" wheels would be ideal.
What are the front calipers anyway? I noticed that the rears are opposing twins.
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Front is single piston, free floating type. Rear is same IIRC.
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Fronts are single piston free floating and dam big....
Rears are twin piston with later units being vented.
Not much you can do to upgrade the brakes as they are pretty good anyway unless you fit fancy drilled discs and fancy pads.
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Fronts are single piston free floating and dam big....
Rears are twin piston with later units being vented.
Not much you can do to upgrade the brakes as they are pretty good anyway unless you fit fancy drilled discs and fancy pads.
Cheers. I like slotted but not drilled. Then I started really not liking drilled after I extruded my pads through them like pasta on the track. :o >:(
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Drilled and grooved discs with green stuff pads fitted both front and rear. Excellent. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
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Had grooved disks with pads to match on an Astra many years ago, worked very well (the original brakes were fading - I had a 1.8 engine in a 1.6 car, and the 1.8 came originally only in the GTE that had vented front disks while the 1.6 car had solid ones, also the 1.8 engine and 5-speed gearbox were making the front much heavier than the original setup).
However, they needed to warm-up before grip developed - try a panic stop 30 second after staring the car and the result is very eerie. Also, they were noisy regardless of the copper grease and the filed front edge on the pads - which I was told was normal for performance disks/pads. But I never had brake fade again on the Astra.
Having said that, unless you actually managed to fade the brakes on the Omega, which is very hard to do, I don't think uprated disks/pads will make much difference. Good tyres will however.
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Drilled and grroved discs are not very good as there is stress concentration occuring due to the surface not being smooth which cause the discs to crack. First thing would be to change the fluid and upgrade with a racing spec fluid.
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Never had any problems with my drilled and grooved and they've been on the car over a year. The advantage of the green pad over the other variants is how long it takes for them to reach optimum, and they achieve it quicker. They are not a true 'track' pad but more middle ground. Even from stone cold the brakes are still far more responsive than the standard setup. They are also quiet during operation, they don't squeel.
With regard to brake fade, i could achieve that very easily with the standard setup. It's the 3.0 Auto i've got, a heavy beast anyway, but being the Elite, even more so, which had all round vented discs as standard, all genuine Vx, but still suffered very badly with fade, especially when braking heavy at speed. Hence my decision to upgrade, and honestly, i've not looked back.
But like they say, the choice is yours, just giving you my experience with 'em. ;)
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Never had any problems with my drilled and grooved and they've been on the car over a year. The advantage of the green pad over the other variants is how long it takes for them to reach optimum, and they achieve it quicker. They are not a true 'track' pad but more middle ground. Even from stone cold the brakes are still far more responsive than the standard setup. They are also quiet during operation, they don't squeel.
With regard to brake fade, i could achieve that very easily with the standard setup. It's the 3.0 Auto i've got, a heavy beast anyway, but being the Elite, even more so, which had all round vented discs as standard, all genuine Vx, but still suffered very badly with fade, especially when braking heavy at speed. Hence my decision to upgrade, and honestly, i've not looked back.
But like they say, the choice is yours, just giving you my experience with 'em. ;)
If you managed to fade the brakes then you must be driving the Omega in the same way I was driving my Astra 20 years ago ;D
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Recently fitted grooved EBC front discs to my omega and put EBC red stuff pads all round, have to say the difference is quite noticable, I am impressed. However, my local garage just round the corner fitted the discs and pads for just £40 quid, and re-sprayed my calipers. But he fitted them opossite direction as shown on the instructions, asked him e.g., u sure you fitted them the right direction/way round. He said yes this is the best way, he used to develop discs for TAROX etc.,, and also work with rally team, now he has his own place round corner from me. He is very good, and knows his stuff. :)
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I must admit there are times when my Omega's brakes are less than inspiring. I've been wondering about upgrading them, as I think the 2.0 rotors are 280mm items, compared to 290 on the V6 models. I have thought about seeing if Hi-Spec or someone like that would be able to supply 315mm items, ideally with a four pot caliper. Rears are probably fine though ;)
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I did'nt do the rears as EBC do not do rear discs for the omegas, only front. But rears are available but I have'nt come across them on any websites or mags. But courteney sport do them, based in Norwich.
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I must admit there are times when my Omega's brakes are less than inspiring. I've been wondering about upgrading them, as I think the 2.0 rotors are 280mm items, compared to 290 on the V6 models. I have thought about seeing if Hi-Spec or someone like that would be able to supply 315mm items, ideally with a four pot caliper. Rears are probably fine though ;)
I am thinking about looking for stock discs off of another car that would be a little larger but still fit and move the calipers out on a small bracket. I am not worried about the rears. It is all sort of OK for daily driving, but not confidence-inspiring. I would certainly be unhappy at the 'ring, even just goofing around and taking it easy. I guess no one has tried this on an Omega?
On other cars I have run various combinations of performance pads, drilled rotors, and slotted rotors. I have also had 330mm floating rotors with large 4-piston calipers (70K and pads less than half worn, discs perfect). Drilled rotors should be chamfered but can still crack. Slotted are ok if done with a ball endmill or decent corner radius. In the end, anything will crack. Best you can do is big, good metal, and floating. Everything has its use, but I am very sure about what I want as described in the paragraph above. :)
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The discs look like 290mm, and looks like they'd fit under 15" wheels. I have 16's and it looks like there is enough room for 315mm rotors under there. Now to find some that might fit the hub . . . . it may be a looong time until I have more info on this ;)
Btw, mini-facelift 2000 Elite 3.0 and non-vented rears. Would have been nice, but not worth messing with.
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Try www.potn.com.. it's a Mod site, and they have the upgraded rear rotors for the Omega, also the 3G Front Rotor pair, and obviously EBC Stuff too.There are some good Brake upgrades on that site.
Cheers.
Matt
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Try www.potn.com.. it's a Mod site, and they have the upgraded rear rotors for the Omega, also the 3G Front Rotor pair, and obviously EBC Stuff too.There are some good Brake upgrades on that site.
Cheers.
Matt
Cheers! Yeah, they've got what I'm talking about. 310mm two piece slotted rotors with brackets that relocate the original calipers. I guess I have to call to see if they have anything for an Omega. Might be able to do something a little cheaper, but that is a really good start.
Part of the problem may be that I'm not used to driving an automatic, except in a Jeep. There is decent initial bite, then it goes dead until you put some real pressure on, then it goes dead again at the bottom. That first dead spot is what is so unnerving in everyday driving. Better regular pads & rotors would help, but hard to have too much brakes so I want to see if I can do something a bit better.
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Never had any problems with my drilled and grooved and they've been on the car over a year. The advantage of the green pad over the other variants is how long it takes for them to reach optimum, and they achieve it quicker. They are not a true 'track' pad but more middle ground. Even from stone cold the brakes are still far more responsive than the standard setup. They are also quiet during operation, they don't squeel.
With regard to brake fade, i could achieve that very easily with the standard setup. It's the 3.0 Auto i've got, a heavy beast anyway, but being the Elite, even more so, which had all round vented discs as standard, all genuine Vx, but still suffered very badly with fade, especially when braking heavy at speed. Hence my decision to upgrade, and honestly, i've not looked back.
But like they say, the choice is yours, just giving you my experience with 'em. ;)
If you managed to fade the brakes then you must be driving the Omega in the same way I was driving my Astra 20 years ago ;D
Good grief. Me? Never. ::)
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Never had any problems with my drilled and grooved and they've been on the car over a year. The advantage of the green pad over the other variants is how long it takes for them to reach optimum, and they achieve it quicker. They are not a true 'track' pad but more middle ground. Even from stone cold the brakes are still far more responsive than the standard setup. They are also quiet during operation, they don't squeel.
With regard to brake fade, i could achieve that very easily with the standard setup. It's the 3.0 Auto i've got, a heavy beast anyway, but being the Elite, even more so, which had all round vented discs as standard, all genuine Vx, but still suffered very badly with fade, especially when braking heavy at speed. Hence my decision to upgrade, and honestly, i've not looked back.
But like they say, the choice is yours, just giving you my experience with 'em. ;)
Yeah, thanks for that info. It sounds like Green pads are the kind of thing I want. The question is if I just do slotted rotors, or try to fit 310-315mm rotors.
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Never had any problems with my drilled and grooved and they've been on the car over a year. The advantage of the green pad over the other variants is how long it takes for them to reach optimum, and they achieve it quicker. They are not a true 'track' pad but more middle ground. Even from stone cold the brakes are still far more responsive than the standard setup. They are also quiet during operation, they don't squeel.
With regard to brake fade, i could achieve that very easily with the standard setup. It's the 3.0 Auto i've got, a heavy beast anyway, but being the Elite, even more so, which had all round vented discs as standard, all genuine Vx, but still suffered very badly with fade, especially when braking heavy at speed. Hence my decision to upgrade, and honestly, i've not looked back.
But like they say, the choice is yours, just giving you my experience with 'em. ;)
Yeah, thanks for that info. It sounds like Green pads are the kind of thing I want. The question is if I just do slotted rotors, or try to fit 310-315mm rotors.
I don't think you need to go over the top dude.
You'd honestly be surprised the difference my mods have made, it's night and day, and without breaking the bank. Even better when you know the right people too. ;)
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Wish I was closer and could see for myself. Does sound promising. I'm spoiled from those 330mm 4-pots, but I'm not trying to recreate that. (It's a wonderful thing being able to engage the ABS on smooth dry asphalt with soft street tires - from 100mph! And then be able to accelerate up and do it again!) I think that I would be happy with your setup if it were a manual. However, it feels like the engine is fighting the brakes in the auto and I haven't dealt with auto trannies enough to know whether that is enough to make me not be happy with what you have.
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Hi,
Yes I would agree with you.
In the auto it does seem as though the engine is fighting the brakes.
But in all honestly I think that no matter what you do that will happen to some extent.
I found knocking it into "N" helps when slowing down quickly.
EBC are a good comprimis of Price and Power.
The Brakes on mine where not bad, but after fitting the Dimpled and grooved disc, there is a noticable improvment.
Although the green Stuff Pads, wear down in no time I find on this car, I'm nearly at the end of my first set, and I've had the car less than a 2 months(!!!) not sure if that is the groved discs doing that or just the type of pads.
Either way they work well, and seem to resist fade up to a point.
I would recomend them as a first option, they are a decent upgrde and IMHO are worth the dosh.
Cheers.
Matt
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Hi,
Yes I would agree with you.
In the auto it does seem as though the engine is fighting the brakes.
But in all honestly I think that no matter what you do that will happen to some extent.
I found knocking it into "N" helps when slowing down quickly.
EBC are a good comprimis of Price and Power.
The Brakes on mine where not bad, but after fitting the Dimpled and grooved disc, there is a noticable improvment.
Although the green Stuff Pads, wear down in no time I find on this car, I'm nearly at the end of my first set, and I've had the car less than a 2 months(!!!) not sure if that is the groved discs doing that or just the type of pads.
Either way they work well, and seem to resist fade up to a point.
I would recomend them as a first option, they are a decent upgrde and IMHO are worth the dosh.
Cheers.
Matt
Cheers Matt. Yeah, maybe what I really need is good pads & rotors and a chip for the auto box . . .
A Range Rover feinted leaving the roundabout last night then stayed on. I went to go and then hit the brakes. A manual would have stopped without sticking out so far into the roundabout.
I guess that another option would be to put a second neutral switch under a dead pedal with a strong spring. Then if you really need to stop you just shove down on the dead pedal as well, like the clutch on a manual.
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Yeah. I gotta say I constantly change from netueral and drive when in traffic.
Don't let the brakes hold it for too long with it in drive and stationary.
There is diffinatly a knack for the Auto when it comes to pulling out... took me a while to learn it... :o)
It doesn't change gear instantly either,and that has caused some "pant wettingly worrying" moments. I must say it's more down to my driving though than the G/B oil level or other problems.
Although I do hear what you are saying.
Maybe some new brake hoses could also help your problem?
The Braided Stainless Steel type. Just a thought.
Cheers.
Matt
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EBC are woeful when compared to a proper brake like Mintex etc.
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Mine were Tarox, Italian brand:
http://www.tarox.co.uk/
You can also try:
http://www.motorsportworld.co.uk/performance-brakes.htm
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... There is diffinatly a knack for the Auto when it comes to pulling out... took me a while to learn it... :o) ...
turning on sport mode helps ;) ;D
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I put EBC grooved disks all round on my MV6 and on the front only of the CDX, both with green stuff pads.
After 10,000 miles this is what the front discs looked like on the MV6:-
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v508/Stoneshed/olddiscs.jpg)
Cracked to buggery!!
So i fitted cross drilled and grooved Black Diamond Discs on the front:-
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v508/Stoneshed/newdiscs.jpg)
After 8000 miles these are still fine,
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v508/Stoneshed/omega009.jpg)
Whatever you do dont buy from Regal as they will try and sell you the wrong discs, 236mm instead of the 296mm.
Courtenay Sport do a 320mm 6 pot upgrade for a Vectra/ Astra, this might be modified to fit an Omega but i guess it would be expensive as the kit without any modification is around £1500!!
They also do a 20 groove disk that they fitted to the special turbo Omegas they supplied to the RUC a number of years ago, but these are £225 just for a pair of front discs!!
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Myself and kev have fitted drilled and grooved disc's and kev has fitted green stuff pads, check out the photo below of kevs car:
(http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/275000-275999/275300_77_full.jpg)
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Interesting hearing what others do........
I took mine to Hi Spec at Dartford (always advertise in Total Vaux....ah the power of advertising....) and they fitted EBC and Red Stuff. They wont fit Green Stuff pads they told me as the cars are too heavy. Doesnt seem to be a problem for those that have fitted them on this forum from what I can see.
And the result? Very little difference from the standard discs and pads that were replaced (which were worn of course)!
Oh well!
Dont think I'll be using EBC again!
Matthew
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So who manufactures those discs, and where do you get them, I have EBC grooved/coated discs at the moment, no problems, big improvement in the breaking; Notice fitted in oppossing direction. :-/
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Thanks for the advice everyone. It sounds like dealer items are 70 on trade club. Courtenay Sport has some interesting stuff, but not for the Omega according to their website. Local shop says Red Stuff not listed for Omega, only Green.
There isn't a convincing argument for me to go to aftermarket rotors unless I can get bigger ones. It sounds like the VX pads aren't that bad either, however there hasn't really been much info on how people drive. At the 'ring unless they are a lot better than stock it won't make any difference, last maybe 1 or 2 more turns. ::) ;D
I am going to keep looking at options. Cheers!
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So who manufactures those discs, and where do you get them, I have EBC grooved/coated discs at the moment, no problems, big improvement in the breaking; Notice fitted in oppossing direction. :-/
Is that a question for me? :-?