Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: TheBoy on 30 October 2006, 17:45:21
-
Saw TD's 2.2 with LPG earlier today.
Quite a strange little problem, thats got my brain cells thinking.
To clarify, symptoms are:
Both engine and gearbox go into limp if engine warm, and turned on after 15mins of being switched off.
If in limp, switching off and restarting will cause it to run normally.
Engine DTCs are Cam sensor fault and a SVS CAN request
Gearbox DTCs are a pair of CAN receive errors
Engine ECU and g/box ECU are running latest software as of Oct 2005. No option to update ABS ECU.
My suggestion is, contact LPG installer, to see if they have picked up a signal off cam sensor, and if so, can they disconnect to test.
Then replace the cam sensor.
Thoughts?
-
Seem's like exactly the same fault as mine had, except no LPG.
-
Seem's like exactly the same fault as mine had, except no LPG.
AA - did your gearbox go into limp as well?
-
Could it be a component thats getting hot from the heat under the bonnet when the engines stopped causing the fault? Starting engine dissipates heat thus switch off and restart clears fault.
But what do I know.
-
Seem's like exactly the same fault as mine had, except no LPG.
AA - did your gearbox go into limp as well?
Yes.
-
AA - thats good to know, coz it does seem to be cam sensor, but couldn't work out why knocking g/box into limp as well.
I have spoken to Marks_DTM and he has theories as to why g/box is flagging codes.
-
Crank sensor? Or do you mean cam sensor?
By the way, it didn't go into limp mode all the time, but it did happen more frequently as time went on (nearly 2 years), before the cam sensor was changed.
-
Crank sensor? Or do you mean cam sensor?
:-[ yes CAM sensor, modified my post now...
-
Thanks again Jaime for spending the afternoon looking at it :y
I'll check with lpg installer tomorrow if they have taken a feed off the cam sensor wiring.
If they havent i'll get the cam sensor changed and then go from there.
Cheers :y
-
Thanks again Jaime for spending the afternoon looking at it :y
I'll check with lpg installer tomorrow if they have taken a feed off the cam sensor wiring.
If they havent i'll get the cam sensor changed and then go from there.
Cheers :y
I spoke to Marks_DTM about it, and he thinks unlikely they have taken feed from cam sensor, as it would be 2 pulses per rpm. But worth checking with then, just in case.
Then change cam sensor. Marks_DTM reckons a '10 minute job'
-
Thanks again Jaime for spending the afternoon looking at it :y
I'll check with lpg installer tomorrow if they have taken a feed off the cam sensor wiring.
If they havent i'll get the cam sensor changed and then go from there.
Cheers :y
I spoke to Marks_DTM about it, and he thinks unlikely they have taken feed from cam sensor, as it would be 2 pulses per rpm. But worth checking with then, just in case.
Then change cam sensor. Marks_DTM reckons a '10 minute job'
LOL '10 minute job' , well maybe for Mark, not for me.....i think your Haynes said about removing aux belt and cambelt cover.....it only takes me 10 minutes to decide its a garage job! lol....somethings i i can do.....like disconnect the crank sensor to show you a 2.2 will start with it disconnected :P
-
Yeah, I agree, it definately starts (albeit sluggishly) without a crank sensor. Actually, it starts as well as when its complaining about cam sensor.... ...maybe on FBWs, one sensor can help replace the other (failed crank sensor on non FBWs is a tow home job)
-
My theory is that when going into the limp home routine the CAN bus protocols get ignored and hence the gearbox thinks the engine ECU is ignoring it so flags a fault and drops into limp home mode (it would not be able to retard the timing on changes if the CAN bus link was down and hence it protects it self).
Cam sensor only gives 0.5 x RPM signal so would be of little use to the LPG install.
The disapointing thing is that I though the dealer had said that they had changed the cam sensor.....
-
My theory is that when going into the limp home routine the CAN bus protocols get ignored and hence the gearbox thinks the engine ECU is ignoring it so flags a fault and drops into limp home mode (it would not be able to retard the timing on changes if the CAN bus link was down and hence it protects it self).
Cam sensor only gives 0.5 x RPM signal so would be of little use to the LPG install.
The disapointing thing is that I though the dealer had said that they had changed the cam sensor.....
Sounds good to me (but then i believe anything ;D ) :y
Dealer did tell me they changed the cam sensor......but when Jaime had a look at the cam sensor connectors he said they looked as tho the connector had been off and a few times (quite a few marks on the pins) Plus imo the plastic on the connector didnt look as new as the crank one that i had changed a couple of weeks ago.
-
Saw 2 of the guys that work at the lpg install place i had the omega converted at....and no they dont touch any of the wiring for the cam sensor......so i'll get the cam sensor changed.
Hope it does fix it, as im quite looking forward to visiting the vx dealer and calling the service manager a lying b*stard :) Hopefully with a showroom of customers! ;D
-
Bloody good luck to you Sir, its no fun having a car thats playing up !
Touch wood i havent had any probs really, with my 2.2 YET !!!!
-
I want to see this car fixed!
With FBWs you are basically forced to use RPM/Crank sensor as the other feeds are off coil wires ect
-
Good luck TD!
My 2.2 is running a little better and touch wood isn't going into limp home mode at moment!
When accelerating hard though there is a juddering coming from engine as if timings out ect, DTC is now only P0700, not seen P1700 since replacing MAF sensor and CAM sensor.
Going to Vauxhall myself to get latest ECU software loaded!
Also will get crank sensor changed.
Good Luck, let us know how u get on!
-
I think we may have some news tomorrow.
-
Well its been done.....cam sensor changed.
Took it for a spin to get it nice and hot, then back to the garage for a 15min wait and a coffee.....Started again fine :)
Then drove it home......again waited 15mins...Started again fine :)
So, so far, so good :y
Comparing the 2 sensors, it was hard to tell them apart, except the new one had a very slight difference on its plastic moulding.....also new one was made in france, old one made in italy. Old one has a number on it 031005B .....not sure what it means or wether its some sort of date code :-/
Anyway tomorrow will tell if its definately fixed........actually Ive got to goto the co-op in a bit.....so i'll see if it passes the supermarket test as well ;)
-
So, who going to quote Auto addict first them, 'I told you so!'
-
Well its been done.....cam sensor changed.
Took it for a spin to get it nice and hot, then back to the garage for a 15min wait and a coffee.....Started again fine :)
Then drove it home......again waited 15mins...Started again fine :)
So, so far, so good :y
Comparing the 2 sensors, it was hard to tell them apart, except the new one had a very slight difference on its plastic moulding.....also new one was made in france, old one made in italy. Old one has a number on it 031005B .....not sure what it means or wether its some sort of date code :-/
Anyway tomorrow will tell if its definately fixed........actually Ive got to goto the co-op in a bit.....so i'll see if it passes the supermarket test as well ;)
Delighted to hear :D
I really, really hope that has fixed it. Been a bit of a saga...
-
Would checking the old one reveal anything? Maybe its developed a high resistance or something.
-
So, who going to quote Auto addict first them, 'I told you so!'
I think it's the cam sensor...... ::)
;D ;D ;D ;D
-
Nice one TD :y, fingers crossed!
-
Would checking the old one reveal anything? Maybe its developed a high resistance or something.
It would be interesting to see what technology is used (would need to split it and get it under the microscope), I suspect hall effect but it could be inductance based.
-
So, who going to quote Auto addict first them, 'I told you so!'
I think it's the cam sensor...... ::)
;D ;D ;D ;D
Why didnt you mention that in the first place AA woulda saved a lot of bother ;D
Oh and it passed the supermarket test as well :y
A big thankyou to you all......for helping over this......hopefully its sorted now :y
-
Would checking the old one reveal anything? Maybe its developed a high resistance or something.
It would be interesting to see what technology is used (would need to split it and get it under the microscope), I suspect hall effect but it could be inductance based.
I'll sent it to you if you like Mark.......my method of disection with a hacksaw....might not be the best ::)
-
Will PM you my address.
-
So, who going to quote Auto addict first them, 'I told you so!'
I think it's the cam sensor...... ::)
;D ;D ;D ;D
Why didnt you mention that in the first place AA woulda saved a lot of bother ;D
Oh and it passed the supermarket test as well :y
If you'd only mentioned what the problem was in the first place......... ;)
-
Would checking the old one reveal anything? Maybe its developed a high resistance or something.
It would be interesting to see what technology is used (would need to split it and get it under the microscope), I suspect hall effect but it could be inductance based.
I seem to recall that somewhere in Vx's documentation its called an inductive pickup, but that probably is unrelated to technology used...
-
So, who going to quote Auto addict first them, 'I told you so!'
I think it's the cam sensor...... ::)
;D ;D ;D ;D
Why didnt you mention that in the first place AA woulda saved a lot of bother ;D
Oh and it passed the supermarket test as well :y
A big thankyou to you all......for helping over this......hopefully its sorted now :y
I guess the big test is when you use it for work tomorrow....
-
I still sweat a bit every time I go to start mine in the supermarket car park....... :-?
-
I still sweat a bit every time I go to start mine in the supermarket car park....... :-?
Who can forget your first supermarket thread ;)
-
Fingers crossed TD :y
-
So, who going to quote Auto addict first them, 'I told you so!'
I think it's the cam sensor...... ::)
;D ;D ;D ;D
Why didnt you mention that in the first place AA woulda saved a lot of bother ;D
Oh and it passed the supermarket test as well :y
A big thankyou to you all......for helping over this......hopefully its sorted now :y
I guess the big test is when you use it for work tomorrow....
Its now had a full day of use......16 starts when being hot.....and a clean start everytime :D
Bet the battery is glad......as that would have been 32 starts before :o
-
Its now had a full day of use......16 starts when being hot.....and a clean start everytime :D
Bet the battery is glad......as that would have been 32 starts before :o
Brilliant :D
Are you going to take the old cam sensor down to the service manager and ram it up his jacksey point out the error of his ways?
-
Hes sending me the cam sensor, I can however supply a CV joint if you wish to use that instead.....
-
Its now had a full day of use......16 starts when being hot.....and a clean start everytime :D
Bet the battery is glad......as that would have been 32 starts before :o
Brilliant :D
Are you going to take the old cam sensor down to the service manager and ram it up his jacksey point out the error of his ways?
Even tho that does sound an interesting proposition ;D I think Mark has a better use for it ;)
Think i'll just give him some verbal for wasting my money for him telling lies to me! >:(
-
Hes sending me the cam sensor, I can however supply a CV joint if you wish to use that instead.....
I'm sure in your garage you have something larger and more painful.....
It really pisses me off when dealer claims to have done something and hasn't (common occurance at my local dealer in Milton Keynes) [smiley=thumbdown.gif]
-
Altho i did at one point think about putting the faulty cam sensor back in the new one box and taking it back, saying sorry wasnt needed, I'll have a refund please ;D
But decided against that......just in case Joe Public bought it and then would have ended up fitting a faulty sensor.
-
More painful....V8 crank maybe......
-
More painful....V8 crank maybe......
Ouch! That will do nicely...
-
Is this the point where I say......'Told you so'.....but I wouldn't rub it in, glad it's sorted TD :y
-
Is this the point where I say......'Told you so'.....but I wouldn't rub it in, glad it's sorted TD :y
Actually it wasnt the cam sensor AA......i lied.....i changed the windscreen wipers....it was that the fixed it :P ;D
-
Is this the point where I say......'Told you so'.....but I wouldn't rub it in, glad it's sorted TD :y
Actually it wasnt the cam sensor AA......i lied.....i changed the windscreen wipers....it was that the fixed it :P ;D
Very funny....... >:(
;) ;D ;D ;D
-
Is this the point where I say......'Told you so'.....but I wouldn't rub it in, glad it's sorted TD :y
Actually it wasnt the cam sensor AA......i lied.....i changed the windscreen wipers....it was that the fixed it :P ;D
Pesky wipers :D
Glad you got if fixed :)
-
About time and at last :y
Glad its alll ok now [smiley=beer.gif]
-
About time and at last :y
Glad its alll ok now [smiley=beer.gif]
Cheers folks :y .....its been fine since....clean start every time :y
-
About time and at last :y
Glad its alll ok now [smiley=beer.gif]
Cheers folks :y .....its been fine since....clean start every time :y
Good news TD :y