Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: TheBoy on 07 September 2007, 18:33:40

Title: BMW 'designers'
Post by: TheBoy on 07 September 2007, 18:33:40
Words fail.  I'm left utterly speechless.  What bloody idiot left that designer alone to 'design' the engine should be sacked.


Those following the tractor saga may remember I was debating whether to check the chains or just swap the heads over.

Had a look at the original engine, now in my garage, and couldn't see how the chain cover comes off, even though the ancillaries are already mostly off.

So a quick look on TIS, and it roughly translates to:
Remove sump!  (which pretty much means engine out I think)/
Remove cylinder head (WTF??)
Remove injection pump

(thats in addition to the ancilliaries like removing alternator, PAS pump, water pump, crank pulleys, vacuum generator, viscous, aux belt).


Words cannot describe my current feelings towards BMW and their stupid bloody 'designers'
Title: Re: BMW 'designers'
Post by: Markie on 07 September 2007, 18:38:03
....so what now, can you be bothered with another engine out ?
Title: Re: BMW 'designers'
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 07 September 2007, 18:40:56
Well i know it doesnt help......but i spose they thought the chain is never gonna be replaced....so it doesnt matter if its difficult to get to......

Head swap it is then  :y
Title: Re: BMW 'designers'
Post by: TheBoy on 07 September 2007, 18:43:37
Quote
Well i know it doesnt help......but i spose they thought the chain is never gonna be replaced....so it doesnt matter if its difficult to get to......

Head swap it is then  :y
Surely the chain is a friggin consumable?  Mind you, having read up on it a lot recently, seeing as BMW heads are incredibly prone to cracking, maybe they expect the chain to outlive the head.

Muppets  >:(
Title: Re: BMW 'designers'
Post by: Bo Bo on 07 September 2007, 19:07:21
Take a deep breath & count to 10.
Err maybe 100 or ..............
Title: Re: BMW 'designers'
Post by: TheBoy on 07 September 2007, 19:15:47
Quote
Take a deep breath & count to 10.
Err maybe 100 or ..............
I'm counting gallons of petrol required to sort the problem ;D
Title: Re: BMW 'designers'
Post by: Dave-C on 07 September 2007, 19:30:01
Quote
Quote
Take a deep breath & count to 10.
Err maybe 100 or ..............
I'm counting gallons of petrol required to sort the problem ;D

You need a nice little Rover to tootle around in... ;D ;D

If your reply contains B0ll0x then that's OK ;D ;D ;D

DC :-*
Title: Re: BMW 'designers'
Post by: CaptainZok on 07 September 2007, 19:30:30
If you get stuck pm Tonygnome he likes burning things. :y
Title: Re: BMW 'designers'
Post by: TheBoy on 07 September 2007, 19:31:33
Quote
Quote
Quote
Take a deep breath & count to 10.
Err maybe 100 or ..............
I'm counting gallons of petrol required to sort the problem ;D

You need a nice little Rover to tootle around in... ;D ;D

If your reply contains B0ll0x then that's OK ;D ;D ;D

DC :-*
Say what you like about the Rover, the only BMW design in it is the cost cutting measures.  So 'dangle berries'.

:P
Title: Re: BMW 'designers'
Post by: TheBoy on 07 September 2007, 19:32:05
rather word sensor   >:(

 :-X
Title: Re: BMW 'designers'
Post by: Dave-C on 07 September 2007, 19:34:16
Quote
rather word sensor   >:(

 :-X

 8-)
Title: Re: BMW 'designers'
Post by: Bo Bo on 07 September 2007, 19:39:25
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Take a deep breath & count to 10.
Err maybe 100 or ..............
I'm counting gallons of petrol required to sort the problem ;D

You need a nice little Rover to tootle around in... ;D ;D

If your reply contains B0ll0x then that's OK ;D ;D ;D

DC :-*
Say what you like about the Rover, the only BMW design in it is the cost cutting measures.  So 'dangle berries'.

:P
Can see it when you use quote  ;D
Title: Re: BMW 'designers'
Post by: Dave-C on 07 September 2007, 19:42:24
For all the obvious advantages of a chain... this is a prime example of the advantages of a belt.... anyone remember the Granada 2.8's "Plastic Engine"  It had a large timing gear in the front, it was cast steel with a sweated on "Tufnut" gear ring on it....  flooded mine once, got it running, rev'd the engine from cold to clear the flood and "POP"  sump full of "Tufnut" new gear required...  NO BENT VALVES EITHER...........

I do sincerely sympathise.....

DC
Title: Re: BMW 'designers'
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 07 September 2007, 19:46:14
Quote
Quote
Well i know it doesnt help......but i spose they thought the chain is never gonna be replaced....so it doesnt matter if its difficult to get to......

Head swap it is then  :y
Surely the chain is a friggin consumable?  Mind you, having read up on it a lot recently, seeing as BMW heads are incredibly prone to cracking, maybe they expect the chain to outlive the head.

Muppets  >:(

Mercs the same.....tho dunno how easy to replace.....but in for life of engine....apparently...according to merc.
Title: Re: BMW 'designers'
Post by: TheBoy on 07 September 2007, 20:00:49
Quote
Quote
Quote
Well i know it doesnt help......but i spose they thought the chain is never gonna be replaced....so it doesnt matter if its difficult to get to......

Head swap it is then  :y
Surely the chain is a friggin consumable?  Mind you, having read up on it a lot recently, seeing as BMW heads are incredibly prone to cracking, maybe they expect the chain to outlive the head.

Muppets  >:(

Mercs the same.....tho dunno how easy to replace.....but in for life of engine....apparently...according to merc.
Probably, in BMW's case, life of engine means lenght of warranty.  So 1yr/12k then.


Title: Re: BMW 'designers'
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 07 September 2007, 20:10:41
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Well i know it doesnt help......but i spose they thought the chain is never gonna be replaced....so it doesnt matter if its difficult to get to......

Head swap it is then  :y
Surely the chain is a friggin consumable?  Mind you, having read up on it a lot recently, seeing as BMW heads are incredibly prone to cracking, maybe they expect the chain to outlive the head.

Muppets  >:(

Mercs the same.....tho dunno how easy to replace.....but in for life of engine....apparently...according to merc.
Probably, in BMW's case, life of engine means lenght of warranty.  So 1yr/12k then.



Thats seems a bit high for a year  ;D

Even tho both German engines/cars......mercs and bmw's i mean.....

Merc do have the balls to give you a free 30 years breakdown recovery.....altho the nearest merc dealer to you does only recover it to their garage.....and usually turn up with a 'covered' breakdown truck......so it carnt been seen a merc has broken down  ;D
Title: Re: BMW 'designers'
Post by: smoothomega on 07 September 2007, 21:11:55
It could be worse, it could be French  :-?
Title: Re: BMW 'designers'
Post by: TheBoy on 07 September 2007, 21:18:31
Quote
It could be worse, it could be French  :-?
Even the French designers, who do come up with the odd corker, are not so stupid as to have to take off the head to change a consumer part  >:(
Title: Re: BMW 'designers'
Post by: smoothomega on 07 September 2007, 22:01:47
How about Jaguar? Dad had a mk1 xj6, and i think this applies to the later models too. To change the rear hand brake pads the whole rear subframe had to be dropped to gain access !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All for some £12 pads!!!
Title: Re: BMW 'designers'
Post by: TheBoy on 07 September 2007, 22:02:45
Quote
How about Jaguar? Dad had a mk1 xj6, and i think this applies to the later models too. To change the rear hand brake pads the whole rear subframe had to be dropped to gain access !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All for some £12 pads!!!
Current jags are just expensive mondeos
Title: Re: BMW 'designers'
Post by: VXL V6 on 07 September 2007, 22:07:04
S Types getting cheap, like the body style but not keen on the interior. Can;t get on with X Types, too cramped for my 6ft+ frame.
Title: Re: BMW 'designers'
Post by: sassanach on 07 September 2007, 23:48:08
to change the chain what you are supposed to do is split it, join the new chain to it with a  split  link and feed it through the engine using the old chain to pull it through.
Title: Re: BMW 'designers'
Post by: Paul M on 08 September 2007, 00:15:42
I'm most glad my BMW's V8 engine has a duplex chain, I've never heard of one of these failing and there are a lot of them in old 5 and 7 series models that have done well over 200,000 miles -- you'll even find a few that are going on 400,000  :o. I can't speak for the tractor engines or the newer ones; I read somewhere that they switched to simplex chains so I wouldn't be surprised if they no longer outlive the engine thanks to new Bangle-era BMW's cost-cutting measures :-/

I'm certainly more worried about my Omega's crappy belt setup, where even after GM halved the service interval from 80,000 miles to 40,000 miles, there are still reported cases where the tensioners have failed before the new 40,000 mile limit resulting in a wrecked head! Timing belts aren't necessarily a bad thing, but it seems the GM design is a very poor example of such. These things need changed often enough that they should've been designed so that you can do one in 30 minutes!
Title: Re: BMW 'designers'
Post by: smoothomega on 08 September 2007, 00:48:20
Aint it odd tht chains have been aroud for years with very few problems, then along come belts with all their problems, only for the boffins to go back to chains in receint years. We are a clever bunch arn't we  :-/
Title: Re: BMW 'designers'
Post by: TheBoy on 08 September 2007, 09:15:25
Quote
Aint it odd tht chains have been aroud for years with very few problems, then along come belts with all their problems, only for the boffins to go back to chains in receint years. We are a clever bunch arn't we  :-/
I'd rather had a belt.
Title: Re: BMW 'designers'
Post by: TheBoy on 08 September 2007, 09:16:36
Quote
to change the chain what you are supposed to do is split it, join the new chain to it with a  split  link and feed it through the engine using the old chain to pull it through.
To remove chain cover (required - there are 2 chains) is what needs head and sump off.
Title: Re: BMW 'designers'
Post by: familyman on 08 September 2007, 09:52:11
Quote
Quote
Aint it odd tht chains have been aroud for years with very few problems, then along come belts with all their problems, only for the boffins to go back to chains in receint years. We are a clever bunch arn't we  :-/
I'd rather had a belt.

Better speak to the lease companies my friend. They damand ( and being a manufacturers biggest customer ) cheaper servicing , Hence labour times for servicing have come down to silly times ( how can you properly check a car in 0.6  hrs aprox 1/2 hour  >:() and cam belts are being replaced slowly back to chains with no maintainance costs involved.  Ford are trying to  keep belts goin with 100,000 or 10 year changes but alas with company car drivers going past this with ease chains are back!

Title: Re: BMW 'designers'
Post by: TheBoy on 08 September 2007, 10:06:20
Quote
Quote
Quote
Aint it odd tht chains have been aroud for years with very few problems, then along come belts with all their problems, only for the boffins to go back to chains in receint years. We are a clever bunch arn't we  :-/
I'd rather had a belt.

Better speak to the lease companies my friend. They damand ( and being a manufacturers biggest customer ) cheaper servicing , Hence labour times for servicing have come down to silly times ( how can you properly check a car in 0.6  hrs aprox 1/2 hour  >:() and cam belts are being replaced slowly back to chains with no maintainance costs involved.  Ford are trying to  keep belts goin with 100,000 or 10 year changes but alas with company car drivers going past this with ease chains are back!

Agreed - who cares what needs doing after 3/4yrs.  Hence 20k service intevals etc.  :(
Title: Re: BMW 'designers'
Post by: Omegatoy on 08 September 2007, 18:27:09
think the cover will come off without taking head off may have to loosen sump but thats easy enough, the picture i showed you doesent have the head off and yet the timing over is off,  :y
Title: Re: BMW 'designers'
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 08 September 2007, 18:45:04
Quote
think the cover will come off without taking head off may have to loosen sump but thats easy enough, the picture i showed you doesent have the head off and yet the timing over is off,  :y

Not that i know......but Omegatoy is probably correct.....and personally i would believe him from his knowledgeable posts  :)

TB... its probably TIS going way overboard.....TIS says to remove the aux belt on a 2.2 to change cam sensor.....but it can be done with doing this.....
Title: Re: BMW 'designers'
Post by: TheBoy on 08 September 2007, 19:07:35
Quote
think the cover will come off without taking head off may have to loosen sump but thats easy enough, the picture i showed you doesent have the head off and yet the timing over is off,  :y
Will the sump reseal?
Title: Re: BMW 'designers'
Post by: Omegatoy on 08 September 2007, 20:12:22
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Quote
think the cover will come off without taking head off may have to loosen sump but thats easy enough, the picture i showed you doesent have the head off and yet the timing over is off,  :y
Will the sump reseal?

absolutely!!! thats an easy bit!!! ;D
Title: Re: BMW 'designers'
Post by: TheBoy on 08 September 2007, 20:34:51
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Quote
Quote
think the cover will come off without taking head off may have to loosen sump but thats easy enough, the picture i showed you doesent have the head off and yet the timing over is off,  :y
Will the sump reseal?

absolutely!!! thats an easy bit!!! ;D
I have the pulley for AC off.  But can't work out how to get the main crank pulley for aux belt off?
Title: Re: BMW 'designers'
Post by: Omegatoy on 08 September 2007, 20:52:02
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Quote
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Quote
think the cover will come off without taking head off may have to loosen sump but thats easy enough, the picture i showed you doesent have the head off and yet the timing over is off,  :y
Will the sump reseal?

absolutely!!! thats an easy bit!!! ;D
I have the pulley for AC off.  But can't work out how to get the main crank pulley for aux belt off?

will have a look tomorrow before i commit meself but i think i know how it comes off!!! :y