Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: JamesV6CDX on 18 November 2006, 19:15:47
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Ok, did a bit more tinkering tonight.
I decided to put a brand new set of plugs into the 2.0 to encourage it to start. Unfortunately I didn't get a result quite that good, but I did learn something in the process.
I installed the new plugs, checked the security and positioning of all the HT leads, and then cranked the engine. It tried extremely hard to fire, and once I thought it would roar into life, but it didn't. So rather than excessively crank it, I took the plugs back out and examined them.
Number 1 plug - clean, and Wet, smelling of fuel.
Number 2 plug - totally black, dirty, and dry.
Number 3 plug - totally black, dirty, and dry.
Number 4 plug - clean, and Wet, smelling of fuel.
Soooo... I'm guessing this is telling me that it's only firing on plugs number 2 and 3 - and NOT 1 and 4. Which would be a very good reason it wouldn't start.
Anyone confirm?
I'm thinking this is pointing at the DIS as a likely culprit, what does anyone else think?
I soooo want this car running :)
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I don't know that engine but if it uses the 2 coil/dead spark system then one coil is not working.
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It does use redundant spark, not sure if 1 and 4 fire together, someone will be able to confirm if firing order is 1/3/4/2 or 1/2/4/3, if so, duff DIS...
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I'm almost sure Mark said the firing order is 1-3-4-2
would that indicate a shagged DIS?
I know where I'll be going next week if so :)
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Firing order is 1-3-4-2.
It would appear as if 1 and 4 are not firing.
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It would appear as if 1 and 4 are not firing.
Thanks for confirming that mate, that's what I thought. Like I say - is this likely to be the DIS, or could there be another cause? I've replaced leads....
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If your brave, i.e. wear a pair of rubber gloves, remove the spark plugs, connect them to the HT leads and earth the body of the plugs to the engine, then crank the engine.
You should be able to see the spark, or not, as the case may be.
Seems to point to the DIS though.
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If your brave, i.e. wear a pair of rubber gloves, remove the spark plugs, connect them to the HT leads and earth the body of the plugs to the engine, then crank the engine.
You should be able to see the spark, or not, as the case may be.
Seems to point to the DIS though.
AA, I used to do this with cars that had conventional ignition systems (i.e. coil, contacts, distributor...) but my understanding is that this is not recommended anymore (with or without rubber gloves...) due to the high voltage of modern ignition systems, instead there are things you attach externally to the HT lead which tell you if it is firing or not... but someone else may know better.
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hehehe, I know the joys of this, I tried this method on the omega, and I got SUCH a belt!! Even with rubber gloves on..
I jumped back a couple of feet from the car, and the spark was still coming for me.
Very much not recommended....... :)
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If your brave, i.e. wear a pair of rubber gloves, remove the spark plugs, connect them to the HT leads and earth the body of the plugs to the engine, then crank the engine.
You should be able to see the spark, or not, as the case may be.
Seems to point to the DIS though.
AA, I used to do this with cars that had conventional ignition systems (i.e. coil, contacts, distributor...) but my understanding is that this is not recommended anymore (with or without rubber gloves...) due to the high voltage of modern ignition systems, instead there are things you attach externally to the HT lead which tell you if it is firing or not... but someone else may know better.
In the Haynes manual for the Merc. it says don't do this. Think thats because if the earthing isn't good, all the HT energy can't go to earth and has to go somewhere, that somewhere can be the output stage of the ECU - then you have to go and buy a new one. :(
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Sorry, yes, I agree, don't know what I was thinking about, it was late when I posted, and I was very tired.
Please don't do what I suggested.
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No worries matey! I've suggested worse things than that when I've been tired :D
I've had the idea of using an old timing light - I wouldn't be able to adjust the timing, but I could use it just to see the flashes, and that would tell me if leads are sparking.
I'm sure the DIS is dead though, I'm on the lookout for one.
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yup try another dispack, root fault diagnosis : if its not the leads its got to be the dispack - you would hope... :-/
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I've had the idea of using an old timing light - I wouldn't be able to adjust the timing, but I could use it just to see the flashes, and that would tell me if leads are sparking.
Hey! thats a great idea!
I was about to throw out my old timing light as it hasn't been used for 20 years.
Think I'll keep it now just for that purpose :)
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:D
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As the firing order has been confirmed, I would change DIS. It could feasibly be output stage on ECU, or wiring in between, but try DIS first as most likely
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I will do Jamie, I'm on the lookout for a new DIS to try. unfortunately I broke the DIS on the donor car manhandling it :'(
If that fails, I've got a spare ECU..loom... if needed
It's gonna run one way or another
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Unlike to be ecu or loom. If is ECU, you'll need immobiliser unit as well (or get ECU reprogrammed)
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Are there any codes to be read from the ecu does the dash light appear when your trying to start it.
May help to confirm whether the sparks are being picked up when firing.
Hope this make sense.
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dash lights are fine, EML normal, no faults stored...
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Well, Bad, bad news. I bought another DIS, thinking it would sort this problem, and still the car has the same symptoms as before, it will not start, although it gets SO close, and practiically "runs" on the key.
I've not done much cranking though because it should start. I'm at a loss now.
Still get code 19, which is incorrect signal from crank sensor, but I've changed that sensor and its made no difference. I've also put new plug leads on. And the order is 100% correct. Valve timing is spot on too.
Strange thing is, this car DID run briefly a few weeks ago, on all 4 cyls, but it hasn't done so since.
I really don't know what else to try.
Any ideas? Before I set it on fire?!
It seems to crank over a few times, then stop, like it's met compression, and then crank again. its cranking quickly, plenty of battery power, no problems there.
Given that it did start once, it doesn't seem to be a mechanical issue, eg something set up wrong. Would there be any advantage in changing all the inlet stuff and injectors?
:( :( :( :(
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I know I've got cam sensors on the brain but......
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Well, Bad, bad news. I bought another DIS, thinking it would sort this problem, and still the car has the same symptoms as before, it will not start, although it gets SO close, and practiically "runs" on the key.
.......
Any ideas? ...
My 2.2 CIH Carlton years ago did this, and it turned out to be the fuel pump relay. (Can't remember the whys & wherefores though)
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Still get code 19, which is incorrect signal from crank sensor, but I've changed that sensor and its made no difference.
Was it a new sensor? Having a 19 stored is bad news.
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not sure if 2.0 is same, but a 2.2 will start (just) and run (like a bag of shite) with a failed crank sensor...
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I know I've got cam sensors on the brain but......
...so now you can even walk out of the co-op car park? :o