Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Chopsdad on 25 November 2006, 23:27:18

Title: Idle lube
Post by: Chopsdad on 25 November 2006, 23:27:18
Ok, I've cleaned the breathers and throttle body some time ago and the idle speed has dropped from 1500 rpm to 700 rpm.

But it only does this when standing for a few seconds at standstill and often won't drop below 1000 rpm.
If I slip it into neutral whilst driving it stays nearer the 1000 mark.  I popped off the hose and lubed the butterfly with some 3 in 1 but it still doesn't seem smooth to me.

More carb cleaner, more 3 in 1, something else, or just leave it and hope it sorts itself?
Title: Re: Idle lube
Post by: Markjay on 25 November 2006, 23:30:18
Not too familiar with the 2.2, but you should have an ICV somewhere - is this what you cleaned? I think AA knows abbout these things a little more...
Title: Re: Idle lube
Post by: Markjay on 25 November 2006, 23:34:36
Is this what you did?

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1162397695

Title: Re: Idle lube
Post by: Chopsdad on 25 November 2006, 23:36:55
Quote
Not too familiar with the 2.2, but you should have an ICV somewhere - is this what you cleaned? I think AA knows abbout these things a little more...

Neither am I  ;D  AA wrote the guide following my previous post and I've followed his guide to the letter - some pics in maintenance section under 2.2 breathers if you fancy a look.
Title: Re: Idle lube
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 26 November 2006, 09:05:52
If it's idling too fast, then check out all your vaccum pipes, ensuring they are secure, intact, and in the right places.
Title: Re: Idle lube
Post by: rpont on 26 November 2006, 09:53:42
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Not too familiar with the 2.2, but you should have an ICV somewhere - is this what you cleaned? I think AA knows abbout these things a little more...
None of the DBW engines have ICVs, they do the job with the throttle butterflies and they need to be spotlessly clean so that the butterflies seat and seal properly. If there is too large an air leak past them they will run fast.
Title: Re: Idle lube
Post by: Chopsdad on 26 November 2006, 10:03:39
Re-checked all the pipes and all secure, no splits, no hissing & all in the right place.  Idle does slow to normal 700 when engine hot but seems to pause at 1000/1100 before doing so - like a 2 step drop.

Should I tighten the torx bolts on the throttle body some more - currently tightened to stop + 1/4 turn?
Title: Re: Idle lube
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 26 November 2006, 10:46:54
before you do that, what is the condition of the solif metal breather pipe that is bolted to the block, and comes up near the manifold, at the rear passenger side of the engine? Take the pipe off the top of it, you may find it's caked with gunge, they often are...
Title: Re: Idle lube
Post by: Auto Addict on 26 November 2006, 12:49:45
Quote
Re-checked all the pipes and all secure, no splits, no hissing & all in the right place.  Idle does slow to normal 700 when engine hot but seems to pause at 1000/1100 before doing so - like a 2 step drop.

Should I tighten the torx bolts on the throttle body some more - currently tightened to stop + 1/4 turn?

Are you absolutely certain that the thin semi clear pipe at the front of the throttle body has not got a split in it?

It can be very difficult to spot.
Title: Re: Idle lube
Post by: Markie on 26 November 2006, 13:07:58
Quote
Quote
Re-checked all the pipes and all secure, no splits, no hissing & all in the right place.  Idle does slow to normal 700 when engine hot but seems to pause at 1000/1100 before doing so - like a 2 step drop.

Should I tighten the torx bolts on the throttle body some more - currently tightened to stop + 1/4 turn?

Are you absolutely certain that the thin semi clear pipe at the front of the throttle body has not got a split in it?

It can be very difficult to spot.
very true i missed this on mine recently - it can be a paper thin slit on the rubber  ;)
Title: Re: Idle lube
Post by: Chopsdad on 26 November 2006, 22:56:40
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before you do that, what is the condition of the solif metal breather pipe that is bolted to the block, and comes up near the manifold, at the rear passenger side of the engine? Take the pipe off the top of it, you may find it's caked with gunge, they often are...

Pipe was cleaned a few weeks ago now but you're right it was gunged up. http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o317/chopsdad/IMG_1081-1.jpg

Title: Re: Idle lube
Post by: Chopsdad on 26 November 2006, 23:01:01
Quote
Quote
Re-checked all the pipes and all secure, no splits, no hissing & all in the right place.  Idle does slow to normal 700 when engine hot but seems to pause at 1000/1100 before doing so - like a 2 step drop.

Should I tighten the torx bolts on the throttle body some more - currently tightened to stop + 1/4 turn?

Are you absolutely certain that the thin semi clear pipe at the front of the throttle body has not got a split in it?

It can be very difficult to spot.

I'll go and look now.  It's probably worth changing anyway isn't it - shouldn't cost more than £20 at Vx for a bit of plastic.  ;)

Pics of throttle body before http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o317/chopsdad/IMG_1082.jpg
and after http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o317/chopsdad/IMG_1084.jpg
Title: Re: Idle lube
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 26 November 2006, 23:11:49
That pipe blocked up is stopping your crankcase breather system from breathing!!

It will certainly not help your idle issues, clean it out thoroughly until it's squeaky clean, and also make sure the flametrap is ok.

I'm not happy about the colour of that gunge either, what's the general colour or your oil like, eg on the dipstick and under the filler cap, and are you loosing any coolant?
Title: Re: Idle lube
Post by: Chopsdad on 26 November 2006, 23:54:19
,
Quote
That pipe blocked up is stopping your crankcase breather system from breathing!!

It will certainly not help your idle issues, clean it out thoroughly until it's squeaky clean, and also make sure the flametrap is ok.

I'm not happy about the colour of that gunge either, what's the general colour or your oil like, eg on the dipstick and under the filler cap, and are you loosing any coolant?

The pipe has been thoroughly cleaned with carb cleaner 2 wks ago and car feels better.  Oil changed 3m ago & dark already, so I'm going to do a couple of 1000 mile changes to flush it through.  Filler cap is clean as a whistle & no sign of water in there.  Not losing any coolant, but I do now do a lot of short runs since moving house and breathers never been cleaned before - 42k on clock.

Sorry James, what's a flametrap?
Title: Re: Idle lube
Post by: Markjay on 27 November 2006, 00:15:45
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...Sorry James, what's a flametrap?

You my not actually have one, I believe AA thought his was missing (2001 2.2) but apparently they have been discontinued at some point of time...


Title: Re: Idle lube
Post by: rpont on 27 November 2006, 08:06:34
Quote
after http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o317/chopsdad/IMG_1084.jpg
That butterfly doesn't look to be fully closed. On the drive by wire engines the ecu uses the actuator to adjust the engine speed. It needs to be able to minutely adjust the butterfly. Since that one isn't closed fully it suggests to me that it's sticking. Unless someone knows better..... I've never seen a DBW engine
Title: Re: Idle lube
Post by: Auto Addict on 27 November 2006, 14:03:27
Quote
Quote
after http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o317/chopsdad/IMG_1084.jpg
That butterfly doesn't look to be fully closed. On the drive by wire engines the ecu uses the actuator to adjust the engine speed. It needs to be able to minutely adjust the butterfly. Since that one isn't closed fully it suggests to me that it's sticking. Unless someone knows better..... I've never seen a DBW engine

Looks about right to me.
Title: Re: Idle lube
Post by: Omega-MV6 on 27 November 2006, 14:26:38
Got to say my 3.0ltr idles at 1500RPM when cold, and as it warms up drops to 1000 RPM, then to 600, and stays at 600.

When comming to a stop, I take my foot from the throttle, and it drops to 1000RPM, then only when it's been stationary for 2 seconds or so does it drop to 600RPM.

Runs alright though and never done it any harm, as it settles to 600RPM after a second or 2.

Mine is an Auto BTW....

Cheers.

Matt
Title: Re: Idle lube
Post by: rpont on 27 November 2006, 19:54:39
Quote
Quote
Quote
after http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o317/chopsdad/IMG_1084.jpg
That butterfly doesn't look to be fully closed. On the drive by wire engines the ecu uses the actuator to adjust the engine speed. It needs to be able to minutely adjust the butterfly. Since that one isn't closed fully it suggests to me that it's sticking. Unless someone knows better..... I've never seen a DBW engine

Looks about right to me.
As I said I've never seen one for this engine but the butterflies lie flat in mine and if you look at the picture for the right hand half of the flap you can just see the line it should close up to runing round in the top right quarter.
Title: Re: Idle lube
Post by: Chopsdad on 27 November 2006, 20:33:00
Quote
Got to say my 3.0ltr idles at 1500RPM when cold, and as it warms up drops to 1000 RPM, then to 600, and stays at 600.

When comming to a stop, I take my foot from the throttle, and it drops to 1000RPM, then only when it's been stationary for 2 seconds or so does it drop to 600RPM.

Runs alright though and never done it any harm, as it settles to 600RPM after a second or 2.

Mine is an Auto BTW....

Cheers.

Matt

Spot on Matt.  Thats exactly what happens with mine - but only since i've cleaned it - never noticed it before.
Title: Re: Idle lube
Post by: Chopsdad on 27 November 2006, 20:36:02
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
after http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o317/chopsdad/IMG_1084.jpg
That butterfly doesn't look to be fully closed. On the drive by wire engines the ecu uses the actuator to adjust the engine speed. It needs to be able to minutely adjust the butterfly. Since that one isn't closed fully it suggests to me that it's sticking. Unless someone knows better..... I've never seen a DBW engine

Looks about right to me.
As I said I've never seen one for this engine but the butterflies lie flat in mine and if you look at the picture for the right hand half of the flap you can just see the line it should close up to runing round in the top right quarter.

Rpont is right.  The flap is a slightly open when disconnected yet moves freely.  I gave it a little 3in1 when I reassembled it and then a bit more later but still open.
Title: Re: Idle lube
Post by: rpont on 27 November 2006, 21:12:44
Chopsdad that thread you posted the link to for cleaning breathers also showes the butterfly not fully closed so you are not alone and it seems it is alright. I see why it looks about right AA  :)
Title: Re: Idle lube
Post by: Chopsdad on 28 November 2006, 19:40:28
I've checked the semi clear tube & all looks ok - if this is a known weak area I'll get one at the weekend just to be sure - anyone got a part no hanging around as I'll need to order it I presume?