Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Craig_R on 25 November 2006, 13:39:32
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Been told my head gasket has gone or has been on its way out for a bit.
Been losing collant but no leak and i now have massive amounts of white smoke out of the back :(
No water in the oil or oil in the water
But Collant System is getting Pressurised
Chatted to a guy at a Garage and he asked did it Misfire in the Morning when first started and then clear pretty fast which was a Yes
He said water from the coolant system is getting in to one of the pots and gets burnt off after acouple of revs.
So Looks Like a Replacement Doh They Quoted £500 including a skim and labor and parts
but waiting to hear from another Guy who might be around the £300 mark.
But also Been Told I can get a new Engine for £1000 then Plus Labor to fit and I would need to get it converted back for gas.
Bugger
Craig
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Put your hand over the exhaust then smell the droplets collected on your palm - do they smell of anti-freeze? If they do then it's your HG...
I don't think £1,000 will buy you a new engine fitted and converted to gas - sounds more like second-hand or re-conditioned.
I see no reason to replace the block if the engine is good, HG replacement is not complicated work just time consuming.
Have you considered DIY? Should be doable with a 4-pot (it's a bit more involving on the V6)
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bugger :(
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It's a 4 pot?
Peice of cake to change the head.
As long as it start afterwards :D
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Loosing coolant and no leak could be many things on the Omega, it does not conclusively point to HG failure.
White smoke could be water condensation which is normal - as said check if it actually smells of anti-freeze.
Cooling system over pressurised is potentially a problem - but again to be conclusive you need to test it better - try getting an MOT testing station to lower a gas analyzer into the expansion bottle (but not into the coolant) - if it picks-up exhaust gasses then it defo HG.
HG will go if the engine seriously overheated or if the coolant hasn't been changed regularly (causing head corrosion), but otherwise these engines are not particularly prone to HG failure.
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I assume the 'professionals' did the standard test and used the gas analyser to check for the presence of hydrocarbons in the header tank?
Remember that
a) The coolant system should be pressurised....
b) The exhaust does have a lot of vapour in it, more noticeable this time of year to....
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either way its a cheap job in terms of parts 0 the bulk of the cost is labour - if you have the tools and time do it yourself and save more than half of the cost :y
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I can confirm that a HG replacement on a 2.0l is a fairly easy DIY job - I did mine on my previous motor over the christmas hols 2 yrs ago, and it was still fine when I traded it in in Aug this year! Gasket set from the dealers was not too bad, and you get to do the timing belt as well. ;)
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so go on - you know you want to give it a bash ;)
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I would have a bash at replacing the Gasket but i park on a hill with two wheels on the curb and dont have the tools.
And I need it fixing before Xmas As i need it to drive back to teesside from Watford.
As for the AntiFrezze Smell no joy there as it does not have any in I was going to put it in this weekend as it emptyied it self on thursday and it just got water in it and has done for acouple of weeks as it kept vanishing the idea was to do the Coolant this weekend but there is no point as it will just vanish after abit.
The White Smoke yep you do get more this time of year but you should see the amount lol like a smoke machine when revving.
It was what the guy said about it misfiring first thing in the morning that made so much sence, but i will get a compression test and see if i can pop to a MOT place and check for hydrocarbons in the header tank, but i did notice smoke coming out of the header hank which could be Exhaust Gases.
How much do you lot think it should be to replace the head Gasket and not by a Vx Dealer as i dont have a million pounds for them to do it.
Ohhh and she has been sounding Ropey lately and the idle has been rough as old boots.
Oh Well its the time of year to be Jolly Bugger jst when i did not need to be forking out cash on my Car :(
Craig
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About 75 quid for the bits, 25 quid for a skim (onlt do it if it needs it) and about 3-4 hours labour.....plus 80 for a cambelt kit and 30 for a water pump.
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well the cambelt was changed 6000 miles ago and the water pump about 2000miles ago.
So i was quoted £500 for the head gasket change and a skim which works out at £100 for bits
Thats £400 on labour Bugger me thats £100 an hour if it takes 4 hours OUCH I should of been a mechanic Who Gets a £100 an Hour
Even when I was Freelancing in the Film Industry i got £50 an hour and i thought that was loads
See If my girlfriends Borthers mate will Quote me any Cheaper.
If it ends up being the head Gasket and the Coolent is Going into the pots and out with the Exhaust Gases will i knack the engine if i drive it even if i keep the Coolent topped up all the time ?
Craig
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well the cambelt was changed 6000 miles ago and the water pump about 2000miles ago.
So i was quoted £500 for the head gasket change and a skim which works out at £100 for bits
Thats £400 on labour Bugger me thats £100 an hour if it takes 4 hours OUCH I should of been a mechanic Who Gets a £100 an Hour
Even when I was Freelancing in the Film Industry i got £50 an hour and i thought that was loads
See If my girlfriends Borthers mate will Quote me any Cheaper.
If it ends up being the head Gasket and the Coolent is Going into the pots and out with the Exhaust Gases will i knack the engine if i drive it even if i keep the Coolent topped up all the time ?
Craig
No quite, if the labour costs include the head skim, then this is done on an expensive machine so labour time for this particular job will be more expensive than spanner work...
As for head skim, it depends how the gasket failed... if the head surface around the waterways has corroded and water by-pass the gasket, then the head will need to be skimmed.
On the other hand, if the gasket itself failed, then if the problem hasn't been left for too long the head may be intact and will not need skimming.
However.... the alloy on the Vx/Opel heads is quite good and not easily corroded (I had an Alfa once - you don't want to know), and it is very likely that only the gasket failed and the head is intact and can be re-used without skimming.
If the head is lightly pitted due corrosion to corrosion then a basic head skim will do the trick.
If the problem occurred over a long time, the head might have deep pits, which in theory could be filled with alloy and then skimmed but in reality it will be cheaper to get a reconditioned head and move the valves or a second0hand head complete with valves.
The problem I have wit head gaskets replacements is that when I used to take the head off engines I would look at the black sooty valves and I could never resist the urge to take them out and get them cleaned and grinded… so simple jobs tended to grow.
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dont skim unless the head is warped ( unlevel) if its level leave it - skimming heads will be about £30 per head
Its not quite £100 per hour although some garages aint that far away :o
Also in that cost are head gasket kit £50 odd
various bolts perhaps £20
sealant, coolant and posibly 10 litres of oil - well i would change oil twice and well as flush the engine considorably, so retail the parts along with cambelt would be nearer £200. Also worth considoring water pump at that stage - another £20 or so.
:y
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dont skim unless the head is warped ( unlevel) if its level leave it - skimming heads will be about £30 per head....
As Markjec says, what the machanics call 'warped' head isn't actually a warped head - just the lower mating surface becoming eneven.
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should i get a compression test to make sure its the Head Gasket ?
Would the compression test be done on the coolent system ? or on the pots throught the spark plug holes ?
Craig
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should i get a compression test to make sure its the Head Gasket ?
Would the compression test be done on the coolent system ? or on the pots throught the spark plug holes ?
Craig
Testing for failed head gasket:
a. Cylinder compression test:
If you run a compression test and find that one or more cylinders show considerably lower compression then the others, there are three main reasons: bent/burnt/leaky valves, excessive wear on cylinder compression rings, or failed head gasket.
Drop a spoonful of engine oil into the low-compression cylinder(s) though the plug hole and repeat the test. If compression now goes up, the problem is with the compression rings. If the compression remains low, the problem is with the head gasket or valves.
(Incidentally, if two adjacent cylinders show low compression, there is a good chance that the head gasket failed at the connection point between the two)
b. Cooling system pressure test:
This is done by pressurising the cooling system through the expansion bottle, then monitoring the pressure on a pressure gauge for few minutes. The cooling system is sealed so the pressure should be maintained. If the pressure goes down, there is a fault in the cooling system – which could be either just a normal a leak or a faulty head gasket.
c. Exhaust gas analyser:
By far the most conclusive test for a failed head gasket is checking for exhaust gasses in the expansion bottle when the engine it running. Can be done at MOT testing station by lowering the analyser into the expansion bottle (but not into the coolant).
d. Anti-freeze in exhaust fumes:
Also, if you see water droplets forming on your hand when placed behind the exhaust and can smell anti-freeze, it points quite conclusively to a head gasket failure.
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c. Exhaust gas analyser: is the winner if its the best test Ill have to find a MOT place to get it donr I only need to find the time now Lucky I dont really need the Car for 3 to 4 weeks so that should give me some time to get the repairs done.
Thanks markjay
Craig
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Ohhhh One more thing Is it Strange for an engine to have a failed Head Gasket with only 67,000 miles on it ?
Craig
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I would have thought that the only thing to make a head gasket blow after that mileage is that at sometime the engine must have seriouly overheated.
But that's only my opinion, don't take it for gospel.
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Ohhhh One more thing Is it Strange for an engine to have a failed Head Gasket with only 67,000 miles on it ?
Craig
omega engines as a whole are very reliable and despite there issues hgf is not one of them - certilnly the v6`s are bombproof and the 4 pots not far behind at all. Vauxhall as a whole are pretty good in this area compared to Rover or Fiat for example.
So yes, as an Omega, its rare, in fact i think i hae only heard of one other omega hgfailure ::)
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Lack of maintenence can prematurely ruin HG, esp if coolant not changed regular...
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The gasket itself rarely fails, certainly at this mileage.
If the cooling system was running on hard water with little or no anti-freeze, or if the anti-freeze was left in the system for a few years without changing/flushing, you could get corrosion developing around the waterways in the alloy head. Eventually the head’s mating surface become slightly pitted, and allows gasses to escape into the water passages and vice versa. However the alloy on the Omega heads is good quality (unlike some Italian engines..), and will take some abuse before actually corroding.
The other possibilty is if the engine seriously overheated at some point of time. When the head heats-up it expands and this is taken into account when designing the head and bolts. However if it seriously overheats, the head tries to expand further, but being limited by the head bolts this causes the lower mating surface to 'warp' and become uneven - and then gasses can escape around the head gasket.
When you look at a head gasket that came out of the engine, you will often see that it is badly damaged at one point - but keep in mind that once hot exhaust gasses are blowing past it it is likely to burn and the hole will increase - so a damaged head gasket is no proof by itself that the fault occurred because the head gasket failed first, it is quite possible that the actual damage to the head gasket occurred after the head was blowing past it because it overheated etc.
In short, head gasket failure on properly maintained Omega engines is very rare...
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Thanks For All this Advise Guys Your all very kind
Well I dont know if it was looked after before i got the Car Guess thats the problem with 2nd Hand Cars, But All Of the Breathers Were in a bad way and the Throttle Body Until I cleaned them all Out.
Well Once I get my Meega along to a MOT garage and find out if it is the Head Gasket, This Car is going to have lots of Love and attention Shame I dont have a Garage to clean and give her love and attention i would like to on these dark nasty nights in the cold
Craig
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Thanks For All this Advise Guys Your all very kind
Well I dont know if it was looked after before i got the Car Guess thats the problem with 2nd Hand Cars, But All Of the Breathers Were in a bad way and the Throttle Body Until I cleaned them all Out.
Well Once I get my Meega along to a MOT garage and find out if it is the Head Gasket, This Car is going to have lots of Love and attention Shame I dont have a Garage to clean and give her love and attention i would like to on these dark nasty nights in the cold
Craig
Exhaust gasses detector:
http://www.tooled-up.com/Product.asp?PID=134147
A bit pricey but should give a definite answer....
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Well Just Had My Coolent System Checked with the kit markjay said about but lucky i never had to pay for it a Mechanic Guy I know had a test kit and It Turned YELLOW From Blue meaning Yep its the Head Gasket has Gone Boooo
He is going to do all the Work this Week For me at £375 including skim and all the bits not to bad i think
Thanks For all the Help On this Problem
Craig R