Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: iwannacarthatworks on 03 February 2007, 08:55:42
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hi, im new to omegas and decided to fit cruise to my automatic cd because it seemed so easy to do, however after 3 cruise modules in engine bay and two indicator stalks im beginning to loose patience with it. >:( the latest engine module is a new one but both indicators and 2 modules were second hand.) i have a 4 wire brake switch which i assume works because the brake light works and i even tried jumping the wires as described elsewhere. f+d but still no cruise. :-/ my next thought was to directly wire the stalk wiring to module. does anyone have any idea what wire goes where?
any help gratefully recieved
ps i checked fuses thay are all ok
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Hi
I seem to remember that the cruise control needs to be enabled with the tech 2 gadget by Vauxhall. I don't know all the details but someone with the knowledge will be along soon with the answer. Sorry I can't help more
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ah, :o thanks for that. is that expensive, anyone know?
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The 2.5 doesn't need enabling by Vauxhall. Only the drive by wire engines need enabling but they don't need a module. I take it you have pulled the brake switch connector off to make sure there are 4 pins from the switch as well as 4 wires from the socket. Does the stalk have the 4 wire plug as well, there is a 2 wire version.
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Yes, 4 wire stalks for Vx engines, 2 wire for BMW 25TD unit. Do you have correct stalk?
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hi, yes there is 4 wires in a multiplug. i tried two stalks with 4 wires and even had 1 in bits to make sure it was connecting and still nothing. there is 4 pin brakelight switch and 4 wire multiplug as well. i am at a loss as to why it wont work.
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Bowden cable not snapped or jammed? Failing that, speed signal to actuator unit not getting there (I'd have to look at diagrams to find where it comes from, but utimately ABS unit)...
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Here are a few things to check if you have not already done so:
According to the Haynes book the autobox bypasses the clutch switch. Just a thought, but are you sure that the autobox is doing this? (By pass the clutch switch anyway? just a whit multiplug taped to the loom near the brake switch)
Make sure that the cruise cable has not disconnected from the yellow cable going into the actuator - basically try to take the cable sheath off the actuator - if it only moves a half inch from the actuator and you have resistance - the cable is joined.
Make sure the multi plug is pushed firmly into the cruise unit until it clicks in - takes a bit of a shove.
In the next two weeks, I will have to take my cruise module off. When I do so I will take full pin readouts when each switch is pressed and post them here. I cannot test the speed sensor feed at all but if you can repeat my pin readouts then you will be able to confirm that it is not your wiring and not your switch and by a process of elimination then it must be the speed signal (which sounds much more expensive to me....)
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thanks for the tips. ill check the clutch wire tomorrow. to bypass it do i just join the wires together? sorry for being thick! there is an adjuster on the cable to the throttle half way up that i pulled up making the throttle connector a bit tighter but have not had the chance to try it out yet. does it matter if its slack or tight?
cheers for the tips
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This post may help you on the clutch switch check.
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1169392381
i wrote this before I installed a 4 pin brake switch and I could not get the unit to function. As you can see, pin D on the multiplug goes +12v with the clutch switch bridged out. I reckon it will be a lot easier to test the feed at the multiplug than to go digging for the clutch switch but if you do then you need to bridge out the terminals with a paperclip and insulation tape to prevent something nasty happening.
As soon as I can I'll get you the pin readouts from my unit that works - trouble is that I need to take the unit off to get the plug out - despite the screwdriver slot in the plug I can't seem to get it to release without taking it off.....
As to the adjusting part in the cable - sorry I've no idea what this does. My guess is that it allow the cable to be twisted onto the actuator and then locked so that it does not undo itself.
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hi, thanks for all the info. had a look and could not find the clutch cable wiring at all under the dash. i know there is power somewhere to the unit as i blew the fuse checking it in the engine bay. dont know what wires i touched though. also the stalk works as i tried a continuity tester on it and they worked when they should.
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o.k. the unit however has power via a number of pins on the multiplug. The pin codes are on the top of the multiplug so you can identify them there.
I will post up the pin readouts as soon as I can. but in the mean time, I think that pin A is wired to the 'O' button and brake switch.
I suspect the problem is control electrical rather than speed signal as the signal feed should be same as ABS,MID etc.
If you want to test these then you could use a volt meter between chassis and the pin or failing that a 12v bulb - low wattage, if it lights up you have power.
Take your time and take a reading from each pin in turn with an assistant pressing the relevant switches. If your readout is the same as mine then we can conclude that it is not a problem with either your switch or with the wiring: this will leave the problems as a) the actuator, b) the cable or c) the speed signal. c) is going to the the tricky one to find/test so we'll eliminate all others first.
BTW which fuse did you blow - auto box fuse or the one for the cruise module?
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You say the brake switch is a 4 pin one....I assume you have removed the connector assembly to verify this and/or fitted a new one...
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Good point: My 4 pin brake switch looks exactly like the 2 pin one from the 'how to' AND my 2 pin switch looks exactly like the 4 pin one from the 'how to'.
also, 2 pin brake switch means no power on pin A (I think!)
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hi, i fitted a 4 pin brake switch i got off e bay. im assuming it works as the brake light works. i blew fuse 15 cruise control fuse that also knocked out the speed /temp etc dials on dash
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there is always a chance that the brake switch does not work but I think it is unlikely. The cruise part of the switch is seperate from the brake part (in reality the 4 way switch is 2 switches in one) so if the cruise part failed the stop lights will still work
currently my aux water pump bracket is on order from opel. I'll need to take the actuator off to fit is so I'll do the full pin readings a) when I get the bracket (should be in the next 10 days) or b) if it warms up a bit and I can find a minute.
I would think that if the actuator was not getting the speed signal then the speedo would not work as they get the same feed - according to haynes
I post results up here. If you can get your hands on a voltmeter you can repeat my readings
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Just heard my bracket is now in at the stealer. Will post the pin readouts this weekend
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great one,thanks a lot
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ok here are the pin readings: Taken from '99 2.5V6 reflection manual gearbox.
Readings taken with ignition on but engine not turning over
A - +12v but 0v when O button on cruise stalk or brake pedal pressed
B 0v but +12v when I pressed on cruise stalk
C ov but +12v when R pressed on cruise stalk
D +12v but 0v when clutch depressed (note on autos I think the autobox bypasses the clutch switch so this should be +12v)
E earth
F - permenant +12v
G 0v but +12v when brake depressed
H- not tested as not sure where this goes or what it does
K - speed signal - not tested.
cruise will only engage for me about 20mph as it is designed to and it is a bit difficult to detect that it has kicked in because the speed has to fall by about 2 mph before I feel the unit kicks in
Hopefully you should be able to repeat these readings with a volt meter. If you can you can you have then confirmed that the stalk is o.k. and all the wiring & power feeds are ok. Next step will be checking the cruise cable is still attached in the top of the unit (damn fiddly thing) and as you say you have a new actuator so it would only leave the speed signal (ocilliscope jobbie here I think which is beyond me.)
Good luck and let us know how you get on
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hi, thanks for that. just to be certain did you have the negative of the voltmeter on the engine to earth it? i did tahe some readings earlier and it does not look good. if you can confirm about the earth ill try them first thing in the morning
cheers
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Just to clarify (and correct me if I'm wrong).
The voltage reads will all be with reference to the car chassis 0V, i.e. black voltmeter probe on car chassis.
The pin reads are on the connector that plugs into the cruise module (doesn't have to be plugged in to take the readings), rather than the module itself.
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JasonH is absolutely correct here. Measure the readings at the multiplug and not on the actuator. I took my readings without the multiplug connected as it was a lot easier to do
The pin labels are on the back of the multiplug just where the wires go in.
Find a good 0v and test it by putting the red voltmeter lead to a known +12v. This checks that you have a good earth and your meter is working! Before doing this please double check that you have got your meter set to V and not current (amps) or resistance (ohms). At the very best with the last two you will blow the fuse in your meter....
I'll check back later this morning to see how you are doing - good luck
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hi, i took the readings and this is what i got from the multiplug
a +12v but 0v when o pressed on stalk
b ov but 12 v when i pressed
c 0v but 12v when r pressed
d 0v at all
e tested with continuity tester and it worked ok
f 12v
g 0v but 12v when break pressed
h 12v
k 0v
negative on meter was earhted to engine
ignition on but not running
do you recon joining a+d together would help?
thanks
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further to the above a +12 v but 0v when cruise pressed BUT +12v when brake pedal pressed. in other words no change to volt readings.
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This looks promising, fingers crossed. I think 0v on pin d is your problem.
I would suggest patching from A to D or from F to D to see what happens. Be careful that you do not short onto any other pins here. I'm not sure of the easiest way either, but my guess would be to try to bridge the terminals on the back of the multiplug as you can test the bridge before you hit the road
with a bit of luck the unit should engage and it should also disengage with the brake pressed because it senses the brake via pin g.
Good luck
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ok thanks. ill give it a go right now and report back
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well i joined a and d and there was voltage between them but when it came to trying it out the cruise did not work.
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Sorry to hear that I was really hoping that you'd found the problem. However, I think you have confirmed it is not a switch/power feed problem. So now the suspects are (and sorry to suggest these because you must be really fed up with this by now!)
1 cruise cable: double check this is joined to the yellow actuator strip in the top of the unit. I've noticed your other post on cable length. When playing around with my unit yesterday I fiddled with the adjuster on the cable. It does not appear to be sensitive to the adjustment. I just locked it off when there was a bit of give in the actuator cable (at the throttle body) but not much!).
2. actuator unit: you have a new one and have tried others so we can discount this I guess
3. speed signal - unlikely because your instruments work BUT this is beyond my expertise I'm afraid. Others on here may have a better idea of testing that.
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hi, i got it working now. thanks to everyone who helped me with this problem. orginally the wiring was not working which was fixed thanks to you then i thought i would try a unit i got from a scrappy a while back and low and behold it worked. re tried the supposed new one and it did not work so 1 to scrap yard 0 to dealer. probably the most expensive fitting of cruise ever with two stalks 3 units and 2 brake switches.
anyway thanks again chaps!
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This is really great news.
Personally I would go back to the dealer and demand a refund for the actuator that does not work. As to the stalks and brake switches, list them on ebay as you'll probably get your money back
I'm a bit confused why the brake switch does not work on pin A or D. I'm working on the basis that VX fit a 4 way switch for a reason so I would want to make sure that a 4 way switch was in place and working before I was completely happy. I guess you can probably trace the wire colours in the 4 way multiplug on the brake switch to the cruise module to work out what is going on.
The good news is that as it is working you know that all the relevant power feeds are there so it should be a relatively easy job to figure out how to get the 4 way switch into the circuit.
once again, great news!
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im going to be taking it back to them. one thing that has come up is the auto box lights all light up at once then choose random gears until drive is engaged then its ok until i start engine again
still it works so thats ok
:y
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im going to be taking it back to them. one thing that has come up is the auto box lights all light up at once then choose random gears until drive is engaged then its ok until i start engine again
still it works so thats ok
:y
No, fix it before it becomes a bigger problem. Likely to be selector switch on side of gearbox...
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oh it gets better. how would i go about doing that. i did think its because i jumped the wires on cruise.
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hi, all fixed. it was just a loose wire on cruise. i fixed it after i lost acceleration and gearbox light came on. :D
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I'd still try to get to the bottom of why your 4 way brake switch does not do anything. They are fitted for a reason (don't ask me what it is though 'cos I don't know). according to Haynes, should be on pin D but as you know it works on A for me....
This will probably mean that you can take your bridge out as well.
At least you are working from a position where you know the system works