Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Bo Bo on 28 February 2007, 08:29:37
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Right, where to start.
Under normal acceleration I have a lack of power up to about 3 ˝ k revs & then it seems to go OK. If I floor it there’s a slight hesitation & then it goes OK, (all of this is not as noticeable when cold but still there).
The kick-down is not working as it did; I have to press the accelerator further down for this to happen.
The tick-over is just under 500 & it doesn’t change when I put it in drive or turn the heater/air-con on/off.
I’ve had a quick look under the bonnet & nothing obvious appears to be wrong but TBH I’m just poking around in the dark.
Any suggestions where to start looking?
Cheers.
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Rear multiram not working I suspect.....has it been like this since the camcover work?
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Rear multiram not working I suspect.....has it been like this since the camcover work?
I didn't really notice it on my way home Sunday (mostly motorway) but it's certainly been like it since Monday, wasn't there before the camcovers were done.
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I had another quick check before leaving work & one of the tubes to rear multiram was not quite home, I pushed it fully back but can't see it making any difference (not much to see there without taking scuttle off anyway).
Whilst poking around I noticed there was a lot of slack in the throttle cable. Not sure how to adjust this but I pulled the clip off, pulled the cable back & put the clip back on?
The throttle response is much better, as is kick down & low revs power is improved too however overall it still feels sluggish.......
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Theres probably a large dog or a child thats been sucked from the footpath by that huge induction kit you have ;D
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the only thing that comes to mind is the two centre breather pipes - well one that goes to the breather, the other to the charcoal canister - they might possibly have got switched - you could try swapping those - but I'm not sure if that will make a difference or not, perhaps Marks_DTM or Laidback66 can advise ... when you first switch the ignition on, does the engine management light come on (to confirm the bulb is working), have you also tried the paperclip test? As I assume the engine management light hasn't been triggered during normal operation ... how's the oil leak?
the book of lies describes the throttle cable adjustment as follows:
- Working in the engine compartment, slide off the adjustment clip from accelerator outer cable
- With the clip removed, ensure that the throttle cam is fully against its stop. Gently pull the cable out of its grommet, until all free play is removed from the inner cable.
- With the cable held in this position, refit the spring clip to the last exposed outer cable groove in front of the rubber grommet. When the clip is refitted and the outer cable is released, there should be only a small amount of free play in the inner cable.
- Have an assistant depress the accelerator pedal, and check that the throttle cam opens fully and returns smoothly to its stop.
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The EML comes on & goes out as normal.
That's what I did to adjust the throttle cable (apart from dropping the clip & taking ages to find the **** thing again ::) )
Will swap the two tubes if anyone can confirm it's worth a try & try the paperclip test just in case.
The gaskets look good, no leak & after a few days the oily smell has gone :y
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... looking through the Vx V6 engine manual, it shows (on page 67) that the small crankcase vent hose goes on the side nearest to the EGR valve (ie, offside), the fuel vent valve connection is on the nearside (same as ICV) ... give that a go :)
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... looking through the Vx V6 engine manual, it shows (on page 67) that the small crankcase vent hose goes on the side nearest to the EGR valve (ie, offside), the fuel vent valve connection is on the nearside (same as ICV) ... give that a go :)
After reading that 500 times it almost makes sense to me ::) :D
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... looking through the Vx V6 engine manual, it shows (on page 67) that the small crankcase vent hose goes on the side nearest to the EGR valve (ie, offside), the fuel vent valve connection is on the nearside (same as ICV) ... give that a go :)
After reading that 500 times it almost makes sense to me ::) :D
The four pipes on back of plenum - the 2 inner ones, the one on left (looking from front) goes to similar area as the big one that splits to the outside pipes...
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oops, sorry ... forgot to translate to english!! ;D
funnily enough mine is similar, apparently - after having being driven by both MarksDTM and TheBoy - but whoever worked on it before I'd had it had marked the pipes up with tippex so that they wouldn't get swapped. However, that assumes they were the right way round before they were marked !!!
Apparently - in the damp, flooring the loud pedal from a standing start should result in the little "TC" light flickering on the dash ;)
... and it never has whilst I've had it that I can remember. Seems to pull well once past 3-4k RPM though :y
I'll try to have a look at mine tomorrow morning ...
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Apparently - in the damp, flooring the loud pedal from a standing start should result in the little "TC" light flickering on the dash
I don't need a light to know when my TC has kicked in, although the light does flash for a few seconds. It falls on its' face completely and then kangaroos up the road. Most embarrasing and very worrying if you happen to be nipping out of a junction at the time.
An LSD would have been much nicer :(
Kevin
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... or you could turn TC off and scrub those tyres ;) ;D
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You didn't fill up at Tescos did you? [smiley=smiley.gif]
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You didn't fill up at Tescos did you? [smiley=smiley.gif]
Thought about that, but no always fill up at BP....
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well I did check mine this morning, the small breather pipe is on the left and does go to the box the same as the big pipe.
I then adjusted the throttle cable - it's now on the very last stop - might need to adjust the pedal end if possible, or fit a spacer - but it does seem much perkier now ... so try re-adjusting the throttle cable ...
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... BoBo, you didn't happen to find my E11 socket in your engine bay by any chance did ya??
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... BoBo, you didn't happen to find my E11 socket in your engine bay by any chance did ya??
No I'm afraid not, I'll be having another poke around later if it's not raining, but if it was left in there it's probably somewhere between Brackley & Coventry....
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OK I've checked the breather pipes.
The one on the left is the shorter of the two & travels almost straight down. The one on the right is longer & travels past this & further down (if that makes sense?).
I've re-adjusted the throttle & response is now excellent.
However it still fells "flat" until 3 1/2k revs, the kick-down is improved but not as it was & tick-over is not affected by the climate or putting it in drive......
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hmmm ... pipes sound OK ... that's me out of ideas ... :-/
... anyone else got any? The HT leads on the O/S bank were submerged in oil before the cam cover gasket change though ... but the oil was syringed out and new twin electrode spark plugs were fitted ...
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hmmm ... pipes sound OK ... that's me out of ideas ... :-/
... anyone else got any? The HT leads on the O/S bank were submerged in oil before the cam cover gasket change though ... but the oil was syringed out and new twin electrode spark plugs were fitted ...
Leads may be knackered then... ...but it still sounds more like front multiram...
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It'll have to wait til Sat now to have another poke around, I'm off to East Mids airport after work tomorrow to pick my brother up. Although TBH it would have to be blindingly obvious for me to find anything :-/
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there's a diagram of the vacuum pipe routing from Mark here (http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1152565204) (yours will be the earlier type) ...
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Decided to change my aux belt yesterday & noticed a split in the hose in the pic below.
I taped it up for now because Vx were closed & I didn't have any other I could use as a stop-gap.
Low end power is now back however tick-over is still low & doesn't change when I put it in gear, I still have a "flat spot" on acceleration & there's a hesitation if I floor it but things are much improved.
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g251/paulmccristall/hose2.jpg)
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The pipe with the silver foil on? Thats secondary air injection.
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well, having changed my cam cover gaskets - the left-hand small pipe goes down and to the left to a metal box, the same place as the big pipe that feeds the two outer pipes on the top. The right-hand smaller pipe goes to a little black box almost straight down. I'm not sure if swapping those two smaller pipes will make a difference, but if they're the wrong way round it might be worth swapping them and trying that ... were you able to trace the vacuum pipes OK?
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The pipe with the silver foil on? Thats secondary air injection.
Yep that's the one, it runs fine when cold but starts misbehaving when up to temp.
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well, having changed my cam cover gaskets - the left-hand small pipe goes down and to the left to a metal box, the same place as the big pipe that feeds the two outer pipes on the top. The right-hand smaller pipe goes to a little black box almost straight down. I'm not sure if swapping those two smaller pipes will make a difference, but if they're the wrong way round it might be worth swapping them and trying that ... were you able to trace the vacuum pipes OK?
I had good check & everything seems to be in the right place, not 100% sure though :-/
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The pipe with the silver foil on? Thats secondary air injection.
I don't suppose anyone has one of these lying around :question
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'Fraid not. Common Failure, often caused by fault with 1 way valve...
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OK I've checked the breather pipes.
The one on the left is the shorter of the two & travels almost straight down. The one on the right is longer & travels past this & further down (if that makes sense?).
I'm not sure if I'm reading this correctly, but you seem to be saying that your two small bore pipes cross ('travels past this')- ie the pipe from the nearside plenum connection connects on to the box furthest towards the offside (from memory the same one that the big bore pipe also goes to). That's not what I recall when I did my breathers ( I concur with sounds2k's description)..
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Have you done the 'blip throttle' multiram test.....
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What's that, Mark?
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Have you done the 'blip throttle' multiram test.....
........err.......
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with a running warm engine ... blip the throttle, the rear multiram valve should move ... if you blip it again - but harder and further, the front one should move - but you do need to do it "fast and hard" (missus) ... alternatively, the valves can be manually activated using a tech2 tester ...
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with a running warm engine ... blip the throttle, the rear multiram valve should move ... if you blip it again - but harder and further, the front one should move - but you do need to do it "fast and hard" (missus) ... alternatively, the valves can be manually activated using a tech2 tester ...
I'll give this a go tomorrow although guess what?
Yep, not sure what I'm looking for, I'm pretty sure I know where they are but not sure what I should see moving.
If I floor the accelerator I get a hesitation & if from a standing start it feels like it's going to die for a split second & then roars away.....
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if you look on the "bagpipes" there is a brown rod bit, there's another on the end of the plenum nearest the windscreen wipers. You're looking for the brown rod to move, that's the actuator ... when you blip the throttle it should move ... and return again afterwards
I'm wondering if the problem is more to do with the air flow sensor - trace the pipe from the airbox, in the 90 degree bend there's a bit which should have a plug connected, after which there's another bit of straight pipe which should also have a plug connected ... check those ... :-?
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By a brown rod bit do you mean a short rod with a "ball type joint" at one end?
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Thats it....one at the front of the engine on the trumpets and one on the back of the plenum.....
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Blimey I got something right ::)
I had a quick look today & there didn't seem to be a lot of movement in either but I wasn't 100% sure so will double check tomorrow........
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... are the connections to the sensors inside the pipes from the air box (between there and the bagpipes) plugged in OK?
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Have you done the 'blip throttle' multiram test.....
OK did this properly today.
The rear multiram is moving pretty freely. The rear also moves with a hard/fast rev but not for long.
All the connectors & vac pipes seem OK (but I'm groping in the dark TBH).
I swapped the two small breather pipes on the back of the plenum & things seem to be a little improved but the school run was in full swing so didn't really get to test it properly, will know more tomorrow.
However tick-over is still low.....
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Have you done the 'blip throttle' multiram test.....
OK did this properly today.
The rear multiram is moving pretty freely. The rear also moves with a hard/fast rev but not for long.
All the connectors & vac pipes seem OK (but I'm groping in the dark TBH).
I swapped the two small breather pipes on the back of the plenum & things seem to be a little improved but the school run was in full swing so didn't really get to test it properly, will know more tomorrow.
However tick-over is still low.....
What about the front?
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The breathers on the back wont make bog all difference.....
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Have you done the 'blip throttle' multiram test.....
OK did this properly today.
The rear multiram is moving pretty freely. The rear also moves with a hard/fast rev but not for long.
All the connectors & vac pipes seem OK (but I'm groping in the dark TBH).
I swapped the two small breather pipes on the back of the plenum & things seem to be a little improved but the school run was in full swing so didn't really get to test it properly, will know more tomorrow.
However tick-over is still low.....
What about the front?
Sorry typo, should have read;
The rear multiram is moving pretty freely. The front also moves with a hard/fast rev but not for long.
All the connectors & vac pipes seem OK (but I'm groping in the dark TBH).
I swapped the two small breather pipes on the back of the plenum & things seem to be a little improved but the school run was in full swing so didn't really get to test it properly, will know more tomorrow.
However tick-over is still low.....
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After checking what I can there's no difference.
So I'm wondering what would be the most likely cause of a low tick-over?
& in case they're unrelated what would be the most likely cause of a lack of power at low revs?
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Tickover should be controlled by the IACV (Idle Air Control Valve, on the passenger side of the plenum). The ECU should open this until the engine will idle at the correct speed and then compensate for rapid changes by adjusting the ignition timing.
As long as the IACV is working and can pass enough air the ECU should get the idle speed right.
Is the IACV clean?
If it's duff, you'll find the idle very slow when cold because normally the ECU will aim for a higher idle speed after a cold start but the IACV won't be able to pass the increased amount of air required for a cold engine. You'll find the idle speed increases slowly as the engine warms up and maybe doesn't get compensated when you turn the steering wheel, switch on the A/C, etc. I'm sure this would cause a fault code though, and you state that the idle is stable when you add these loads.
How does the idle speed stabilise when you blip the throttle then release? Does it dip under the normal speed and then recover or does it settle gently to the normal speed?
The IACV has no effect on normal running when you're on the throttle, however.
I could think of a few things it could be (throttle pot, air / water temperature sensors, MAF) but I'm struggling to think of something that wouldn't be noticed straight away by the ECU and result in a fault code.
Don't suppose the exhaust / cat is blocked? It did blow an air injection pipe?
Then again, I would have thought that would strangle it progressively more at higher revs.
Has the battery been disconnected recently? Maybe the ECU is "re-learning" the correct idle speed and ignition advance. It shouldn't be taking this long though - unless it's not getting its' permanent feed from the battery to keep the non volatile RAM safe? No fuses blown?
Is the air injection pipe sealed now? I guess air being sucked into the pipe could fool the lambda sensors into thinking it's got a lean mixture and result in it running too rich? Then again closed loop won't be active during idle and it'd probably result in a fault light. I take it the engine and emissions fault lights do work OK?
It's a real tough one!
Kevin
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OK an update & maybe related.
EML came on this morning whilst overtaking :o
It was constant (not a flicker) whilst accelerating & went off when I eased off.
I tried to recreate this on the rest of the journey but couldn't get it to happen again, I'll do the paperclip test on Sat too.
(ICV was cleaned & lubed not long ago, will be doing again Sat. Exhaust is less than a year old).
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I've got to get to East Mids airport on Weds so thought I'd better do the paperclip test ASAP, don't want it conking out on me on the way & missing my flight!
Got code; 74 which I believe is; Air Flow Sensor (AFS) High voltage
Where does this live, what do I need to do & is it likely to cause problems if I can't get it done before then.
Cheers.
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I've got to get to East Mids airport on Weds so thought I'd better do the paperclip test ASAP, don't want it conking out on me on the way & missing my flight!
Got code; 74 which I believe is; Air Flow Sensor (AFS) High voltage
Where does this live, what do I need to do & is it likely to cause problems if I can't get it done before then.
Cheers.
That's the MAF, thought that might be the problem. Wonder if the wires got unhappy after Brackley.
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Where does this live, what do I need to do & is it likely to cause problems if I can't get it done before then.
It's in the intake ducting in the vertical section between the air filter and the bottom of the dual ram system. There should be a wire attached to it and another wire in that area which goes to an intake air temperature sensor. First job is to check the wiring's secure after the cam belt day I guess...
At least we've got a lead now.
Kevin
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Just a thought Bo Bo but do you have to oil that airfilter your using?
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Just a thought Bo Bo but do you have to oil that airfilter your using?
Clean & oil every 10k ;)
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Where does this live, what do I need to do & is it likely to cause problems if I can't get it done before then.
It's in the intake ducting in the vertical section between the air filter and the bottom of the dual ram system. There should be a wire attached to it and another wire in that area which goes to an intake air temperature sensor. First job is to check the wiring's secure after the cam belt day I guess...
At least we've got a lead now.
Kevin
OK think I'm looking at the right thing (it has a Bosch 0280217503 on it) & all of the connectors & vac pipes are connected.......
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Just a thought Bo Bo but do you have to oil that airfilter your using?
Clean & oil every 10k ;)
I have heard of the oil from the airfilter contaminating the MAF if you put too much on.
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Just a thought Bo Bo but do you have to oil that airfilter your using?
Clean & oil every 10k ;)
I have heard of the oil from the airfilter contaminating the MAF if you put too much on.
It's only been on a couple of months & was almost dry to the touch when new (I haven't oiled it) , had a K&N panel filter before the cone for a couple of years. I've had a "flat spot" in mid revs for a long time, could this have been the air flow sensor on it's way out?
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It doesn't take long....thats why I absolutely dont recommend cone or oiled filters.....the oil gets onto the MAF and you get problems....plus all you gain is noise....and heat soak....
You could try cleaing it with some foaming keyboard cleaner....but dont physicaly touch the element inside...
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It doesn't take long....thats why I absolutely dont recommend cone or oiled filters.....the oil gets onto the MAF and you get problems....
You live & learn!
You could try cleaing it with some foaming keyboard cleaner....but dont physicaly touch the element inside...
I have some of that stuff so will give it a go.......
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I've got to get to East Mids airport on Weds so thought I'd better do the paperclip test ASAP, don't want it conking out on me on the way & missing my flight!
Got code; 74 which I believe is; Air Flow Sensor (AFS) High voltage
Where does this live, what do I need to do & is it likely to cause problems if I can't get it done before then.
Cheers.
Could still be an air leak on the intake, so don't rule this out...
Possibly easiest test is to 'borrow' someones MAF to see if it cures it...