Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: amba on 28 March 2007, 15:44:29
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Can any body give me some advise regarding the dreaded cam covers ..just had both sets of gaskets replaced together with "o"rings and the vauxhall sealant,by my local mechanic..who does a good job....after less than a week am getting the kebab shop smell again and smoke appearing from under the bonnet on drivers side..you can just see a very small trace of oil which seems to be dripping onto the manifold and burning off....this was the very problem I had when car went to garage.....it has now been suggested that the rocker covers could be warped and will need to be replaced...my garage man has said he will do the work free of charge ..but I must buy the covers as he could not be liable for them...when I rang Vauxhall they have quoted £70=00 each side plus vat...not cheap ahh....could anybody throw some light onto the reality that these do warp and is the price correct for what seems to be just plastic...or is there a cheaper way out of this as second hand would seem pointless with the work involved to find still leaking..thanks guys and await any help and advise...andrew(mobile kebab shop )
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Two questions.
Was the complete breather system cleaned out? If it's still blocked the pressures will build up and blow the gaskets again. If not cleaning them and reseating the gaskets should solve it.
Were genuine Vauxhall gaskets used? Only the genuine ones seem to last but even they should have lasted longer if the breathers were cleaned.
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First question - genuine VX gaskets or some from E-bay or elsewhere? If genuine VX gaskets, possible that covers have warped, as long as the mechanic as as competent as you hope.
If they are aftermarket, non VX gaskets, they are harder rubber/plastic and are very prone to leaking, especially if the proper sealant is not used.
Second - breathers. If the breather system is blocked (look for the howtoo) then all that happens is the engine overpressurises and the pressure has to go at the weakes spot, ie the cam cover gaskets.
Clean the breahter system first, then get proper VX gaskets. Get the mechanic to replace both (as he is doing it for free) but take along a copy of the howtoo so that he (or she) can see whats advised as regards sealant etc.
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Rpont - I must type faster.... ;D
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Thanks for reply.
Yes..the breathers were totally cleaned..they actually had very little muck in them..as oil has been replaced regularly and car does not stand around for long..as I drive over 700 miles a week.
The gaskets were original vauxhall parts bought from main dealer with part no,s checked at counter.
The problem has now been suggested as "warped "rocker covers..does this happen as they are only plastic?and if so is there a better part to get than the same plastic part??
Thanks...andrew
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Thanks for reply.
Yes..the breathers were totally cleaned..they actually had very little muck in them..as oil has been replaced regularly and car does not stand around for long..as I drive over 700 miles a week.
The gaskets were original vauxhall parts bought from main dealer with part no,s checked at counter.
The problem has now been suggested as "warped "rocker covers..does this happen as they are only plastic?and if so is there a better part to get than the same plastic part??
Thanks...andrew
Andrew,
Phone autovaux, they supplied me new cam covers for 57 + vat each, this INCLUDES new gaskets - all are genuine GM parts.
As for changing from plastic, I believe it is possible to get the metal ones from a vectra with the same x25xe / x30xe engine - however something needs to be done about the oil filler neck as it wont just go on (different place on the vectra, it doesn't have a neck). Someone else should be able to confirm what it is you do to get the vectra ones on. If I get trouble from mine again this is what I want to do where possible..
Cheers,
Chris.
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Thanks for reply.
Yes..the breathers were totally cleaned..they actually had very little muck in them..as oil has been replaced regularly and car does not stand around for long..as I drive over 700 miles a week.
The gaskets were original vauxhall parts bought from main dealer with part no,s checked at counter.
The problem has now been suggested as "warped "rocker covers..does this happen as they are only plastic?and if so is there a better part to get than the same plastic part??
Thanks...andrew
Different gaskets too on Veccy, so I'm told...DC
Andrew,
Phone autovaux, they supplied me new cam covers for 57 + vat each, this INCLUDES new gaskets - all are genuine GM parts.
As for changing from plastic, I believe it is possible to get the metal ones from a vectra with the same x25xe / x30xe engine - however something needs to be done about the oil filler neck as it wont just go on (different place on the vectra, it doesn't have a neck). Someone else should be able to confirm what it is you do to get the vectra ones on. If I get trouble from mine again this is what I want to do where possible..
Cheers,
Chris.
Different gaskets too on Veccy, so I'm told...DC[size=14][/size]
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Probably a warped cover.
Gaskets should be ok ater a week. I would clean and re-use with replacement covers.
Check the general chat. James V6 CDX is selling a pair of perfectly good (he won't sell anything duff) covers for dirt cheap money.
Oh, and make sure the complete intake and breather system is cleaned!
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Thanks for advise guys..will see if I acn track down James as might get a good deal on some second use ones....also will try autovaux as would prefer to go new then be sure as pain keep having car off road....cheers for good advise about vectra metal ones....think I will opt for like for like ....not every omega has leaky rocker gaskets???my last beast cdx 2.5 on a S plate had passed 225000 miles before the cost of repair out weighed my love of her so sadly she is no more..another tale another day..once again thanks for advise...andrew
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You say you can see oil -is that actually at the camcover joint?
The residual oil will take a while to burn off (not long at 700 miles a week though), but might be worth giving it a while to eliminate that.
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Rpont - I must type faster.... ;D
..or me slower ;D
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oil is new as i wipe it off every morning and by the time i come off motorway slip after about 50 miles at 70mph ish smoke appears and smells !!is it possible for the rocker covers to warp??seems strange..still awaiting any offers of covers to buy.thanks
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I think they do warp. They are made of plastic and susceptible to overtightening (perhaps by previous owner/mechanic trying to stop the leak..)
Is there new oil in your plug holes?
When you say you did the breathers did this include the boxes at the back, three hoses and the Ecotec bit?
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No oil in plug holes..just the slightest weep on drivers side right at the back and falling on large chrome pipe..then burning off..passenger side is similar position again at back but not the same burning..expect the exhaust doesn,t rin that way..when they were replaced some 12 days ago and 1100 miles oil and filter were both replaced so oil is still very clean.....I was assured that whilst all parts were removed all pipes etc were cleaned,so as no expert must rely on my mechanics honesty..any way seems strange if he didnt do job correctly as he has now said he will do it all again f.o.c..but did suggest that it may be the covers which are warped and if i bought those he would replace them at same time.....going back to these breathers etc..as i am no mechanic but can follow instructions is this a job that could be done by a total novice,as you have now set my mind thinking that another week/another days lost work/the cost of the covers which might be needed or not...still to find a leak..or should i just tell him to do the breathers as per the instructions i found on the forum??..all these decisions!!!and all i want is no oil smell.
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Your mechanic didn't overtighten the cam covers? 8Nm, no more.
Also black sealant in the correct places.
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No oil in plug holes..just the slightest weep on drivers side right at the back and falling on large chrome pipe..then burning off..passenger side is similar position again at back but not the same burning..expect the exhaust doesn,t rin that way..when they were replaced some 12 days ago and 1100 miles oil and filter were both replaced so oil is still very clean.....I was assured that whilst all parts were removed all pipes etc were cleaned,so as no expert must rely on my mechanics honesty..any way seems strange if he didnt do job correctly as he has now said he will do it all again f.o.c..but did suggest that it may be the covers which are warped and if i bought those he would replace them at same time.....going back to these breathers etc..as i am no mechanic but can follow instructions is this a job that could be done by a total novice,as you have now set my mind thinking that another week/another days lost work/the cost of the covers which might be needed or not...still to find a leak..or should i just tell him to do the breathers as per the instructions i found on the forum??..all these decisions!!!and all i want is no oil smell.
Print the instructions and point the breathers out to him if I were you, it doesn't take long to blast the crap out of the hoses with carb cleaner and a hose. Just make sure he doesn't go mental spraying cleaner into the breather box (drivers side, just below the camcover closest to the road wheel (its metal) and the electrical box next to it needs the smallest of squirts on the pipe you remove there that goes to the plenum on top.
Mine were totally clear, and already 10 days later have loads of crap in, so its probably just the system clearing itself out, I'll be doing the breathers again this weekend myself. I notice you're in Kent, if you are coming anywhere near Newbury this weekend I'd be happy to blast them out for you, would only take an hour to give them a good shot through if that.
Cheers,
Chris.
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Thanks Chris..really kind gesture..unfortunatley working all week/end as most so will be down bottom end of kent..have got car lined up for new(2nd set ) of gaskets week on tuesday..have managed to source a further set of rocker covers for £25=00 of another member so will have those replaced at same time....it would be more likley to win all the lotteries than have 2 sets warped (famous last words )..have also printed out "how to "for breather cleaning and will pass that on to mechanic so he has no excuses and then keep my fingers crossed........or would it be better for me to clean the breathers first..as said am no mechanic so might have an hour spare one morning next week if it is straight forward..or does the work seem better done when gaskets changed again as parts will already be removed.....would i be right in assuming if breathers are clogged up..then cleaned the original gaskets will stop leaking??or is that wish full thinking as ..once a leak, allways going to leak..cheers anyway..andrew
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Thanks Chris..really kind gesture..unfortunatley working all week/end as most so will be down bottom end of kent..have got car lined up for new(2nd set ) of gaskets week on tuesday..have managed to source a further set of rocker covers for £25=00 of another member so will have those replaced at same time....it would be more likley to win all the lotteries than have 2 sets warped (famous last words )..have also printed out "how to "for breather cleaning and will pass that on to mechanic so he has no excuses and then keep my fingers crossed........or would it be better for me to clean the breathers first..as said am no mechanic so might have an hour spare one morning next week if it is straight forward..or does the work seem better done when gaskets changed again as parts will already be removed.....would i be right in assuming if breathers are clogged up..then cleaned the original gaskets will stop leaking??or is that wish full thinking as ..once a leak, allways going to leak..cheers anyway..andrew
It is much easier with the bits off when the covers are being done. I'll be doing the hard to get to bits on mine tomorrow or Sunday without taking things apart, so I'll chuck some photos up and you can decide whether to attempt it yourself or not!
As for stopping leak after gaskets have been changed, I'm not too sure - it probably applies too much pressure to a part of the gasket to start with, so once thats done it may kill it. To be honest though I'm not too sure. Marks DTM is the guru on these here, think he wrote the guide - he may be able to clarify this part..
Cheers,
Chris.
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Thanks for reply Chris,and if not too much trouble for you would be great to see working photos of the operation!!!I think I will give the problems to my mechanic as he has been paid to do job....have tracked down some second hand ,but am advised by Henry ..las_jacarandas..they are in good nick and have decent rubber seals fitted,for £25=00 delivered so will give the lot to my chap and hope we can sort out with all bits.....am a bit concerned about using second hand seals as expect that is false economy..what do you think as for the £40=00 new seals and o rings are you do have more peace of mind..never really thought you could use second hand gaskets.will await photos and good luck with your breathers...I am now off to work in Dover..luvly ah!!andrew
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Thanks for reply Chris,and if not too much trouble for you would be great to see working photos of the operation!!!I think I will give the problems to my mechanic as he has been paid to do job....have tracked down some second hand ,but am advised by Henry ..las_jacarandas..they are in good nick and have decent rubber seals fitted,for £25=00 delivered so will give the lot to my chap and hope we can sort out with all bits.....am a bit concerned about using second hand seals as expect that is false economy..what do you think as for the £40=00 new seals and o rings are you do have more peace of mind..never really thought you could use second hand gaskets.will await photos and good luck with your breathers...I am now off to work in Dover..luvly ah!!andrew
Personally I wouldn't use second hand gaskets. The ones you already have on there that have been changed, being as they are so new *MIGHT* be ok, but I can't gurantee anything. If it was me I would change them - and the o-rings will definitely need changing I would say, these seem to go hard in no time at all so you won't have a proper seal..
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... also make sure the replacement covers aren't tightened to more than 8Nm ...
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It is much easier with the bits off when the covers are being done. I'll be doing the hard to get to bits on mine tomorrow or Sunday without taking things apart, so I'll chuck some photos up and you can decide whether to attempt it yourself or not!
As for stopping leak after gaskets have been changed, I'm not too sure - it probably applies too much pressure to a part of the gasket to start with, so once thats done it may kill it. To be honest though I'm not too sure. Marks DTM is the guru on these here, think he wrote the guide - he may be able to clarify this part..
Cheers,
Chris.[/quote]
Would be good to see some pictures of the breather cleaning. Need to get mine done! :)
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Hi ..I see you also live in Medway towns..maybe we could meet sometime?/
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Hi ..I see you also live in Medway towns..maybe we could meet sometime?/
Indeed I do!! (for my sins)
send me a PM, whilst no expert I can at least point a few bits & pieces out on the omega - breathers, etc ... good to meet fellow miggy owners :y
Got 2 of 'em parked up here at the mo ... the gold one will be gone soon, once the DVLA in Wales get their backsides into gear ;D