Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Abiton on 17 May 2007, 10:21:17
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So, please help this Newbie get to know his g/f’s car, apologies for my wordiness.
Car’s a 1996, N-reg, x20xev-powered beauty/beast. My girlfriend’s owned it for about 9 months, mostly with no probs. Drinks a lot of fuel though, and more and more regularly, cuts out unpredictably from idle (only when hot, I think). The EML was coming on briefly, but going out again, and a garage that we took it to said no faults had been recorded.
My first actions were to check the PCV hose (cam cover-air intake), which was filthy, but not completely blocked, and clean out the throttle body/butterfly a bit. This seemed to improve things for a while. Then I noticed the other ‘small’ breather pipe… Blocked as a blocked thing on National Blocking Day. Cleared out the valve cover fitting (carefully), and after a struggle cos of access, got the hose off and blew the plug out of that (pea-shooter style). Couldn’t figure out at the time how to clear the other fitting at the manifold end, found out this week that it too is totally blocked, unsurprisingly.
Did an oil/oil filter change last week, and the air filter’s almost new.
Then I discovered the broken air hose on the SAI system, between the one-way valve and the flap/diaphragm system (presumably zorst manifold heat-soak does these in). Replaced that, but TBH don’t think that had much to do with the observed misbehaviour, cos that’s only ‘on’ under certain conditions, warm-up and over-run, right??
Got a new filter on order for the SAI pump, is that an OK job to change?
New symptom appears over the last few weeks… Revs that don’t always die off when you take your foot off the go-pedal! Not nice…
Took off the ICV earlier in the week and kinda cleaned it a bit, seems to be in OK nick, but the gasket!! Got another one of those to pick up tomorrow…No change to cutting out or strange revving behaviour yet. EML light suddenly coming on more/staying on… Oh no, I’ve ‘fixed it worse’!
Last night I got the throttle body off the manifold (new gasket on order), with caution and some trepidation, giving me better access to the blocked ‘small’ breather fitting. Eventually got a clear path through this, in a straight line, but can’t help thinking that the other two air/vac pipes that join to the same fitting will be similarly chocka. G/f reports this morning that car behaved better on the way to work WRT the cutting out, but not the revving. Some progress then.
Would someone please let me know what these other two pipes go to, and whether the blockage(s) that I’m almost certain of at the throttle-body/manifold end of these may explain the symptoms? Access for taking the pipes off looks ‘interesting’…
I’ve got the rear crank-breather-mod-box thingummy on order from my friendly local parts counter too, as I gather this helps to prevent some of these probs I’m finding.
Cheers for getting all the way to here ;D,
Pete
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As you obviously know, high or erattic idle could be due to vacuum leak or otherwise air leak into the intake manifold, as well as dirty/faulty ICV valve or sticking Throttle Body etc.
But engine keep reving high when accelerator pedal is fully depressed, i.e. not just high idle but at higher rev range, is something else - I would check the connection at both ends of the throttle cable and make sure it is lubricated and moves freely - which the clutch disengaged even a slight pull on the throttle cable can cause the revs to go high. Otherwise the Throttle Body itself... you could try and get a second-hand one from breakers to eliminate it is the problem.
As for cutting off, this could be due to many things such as blocked fuel filter or injectors, problems with plugs/HT Leads/DIS pack, etc.... but to eliminate problems with engine sensors, I would check the fault codes myself (your car should be good for the 'Paper Clip' test - someone else might be able confirm...) rather than rely on the garage, because problems such as MAF Sensor, Cam / Crank sensors, temp sensor, etc etc should all come-up as a logged fault - though I do appreciate that this is not always the case - for example a sensor might have a wrong value which is inappropriate to what the engine is actually doing at the time, but if the reading is not out of the sender range limits it may not actually register a fault...
But I would start with the basics e.g. fuel filter and plugs/leads/DIS. Also a dose of Injector cleaner such as Forte, Redex, or STP will do no harm - even if they are far from being the miracle cure that manufacturers claim them to be...
Hope this helps.
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Check that the throttle body hasn't been adjusted too far open too. A lazy fix for stalling when the IACV is bunged up.
Now you've cleaned the IACV out you may have too much flow through the main throttle to bring the revs down.
Kevin
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Thanks markjay, v. kind
The garage that failed to find a fault a coupla months back put in some 'fuel system cleaner' but I can't say we noticed any improvement.
Have just read on here today about the 'paper-clip' thing, now that the EML's been staying on a while, I'd guess that I should get some info from that.
G/f seemed happy with the idle at 750/800 this morning, and stable, so I think my efforts last night have been rewarded.
I take your point about ignition bits, I tend to dish out that advice to folk on my 'home' site, ClubGTI. Will add to my 'goodies' list... Also will check fuel filter situation, and throttle cable, Ta.
Does the throttle position sensor ever cause a problem on these, at this age?
Pete
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On the idling problems its VERY important to be thorough with your approach.
You absolutely must remove the throttle body and clean it to within an inch of its life, pay close attention to the various vaccum drilling, the idle valve and the throttle butterflies (including the edges of them), before re-fitting, ensure the throttle stop is adjsuted so the throttle valve is fully closed but, not sticking.
Then clean all the breathers well, remember the one at the rear right (where the flame trap mod goes) and its worth removing the metal pipe that connects to the block on the pipe run as well.
Only having done this will it prove reliable and fix the problems...
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Thanks Kevin and Marks,
The throttle body is now quite clean, but could be/will be better. Even managed to clean the edges of the butterfly a bit. It is sitting appropriately closed, but not sticking.
What about the other two hoses that go into the same fitting (as the small breather) at the top of the inlet manifold? I guess a good 'pore' over Haynes'll give it to me. I wonder how I'm gonna get at the clips to get those hoses off ::)?
Pete
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Made some progress on this...
Paperclip test tells me that it's the coolant temperature sensor that the ECU's not happy with.
Code 14 "voltage too low" and Code 15 "voltage too high" :-/ :-/ !
I guess the thing's been steadily deteriorating for a while and now is bad enough that the EML light's on all the time. I think, judging by the difficulty I had getting a visual on this bit, that Vauxhall are gonna be slipping a new one in for me. Is it a NTC thermistor type sensor? I know the VAG equivalent on the Gti Golfs are a common cause of running problems, I wonder what the failure mode is?
May not be the only problem of course...
Got the rear breather cleaned out and flame-trap fitted on Friday; and, after a bit of a battle, got my new SAI intake filter on this afternoon.
Getting to know my way round the car a bit now, still lots to do.
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Made some progress on this...
Paperclip test tells me that it's the coolant temperature sensor that the ECU's not happy with.
Code 14 "voltage too low" and Code 15 "voltage too high" :-/ :-/ !
I guess the thing's been steadily deteriorating for a while and now is bad enough that the EML light's on all the time. I think, judging by the difficulty I had getting a visual on this bit, that Vauxhall are gonna be slipping a new one in for me. Is it a NTC thermistor type sensor? I know the VAG equivalent on the Gti Golfs are a common cause of running problems, I wonder what the failure mode is?
May not be the only problem of course...
Got the rear breather cleaned out and flame-trap fitted on Friday; and, after a bit of a battle, got my new SAI intake filter on this afternoon.
Getting to know my way round the car a bit now, still lots to do.
Not sure where it is on a 2.0l, but it may be worth having a go yourself - lots of people here will be able to geive you advice...
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According to Autodata it is somewhere behind the head where the red arrow is pointing:
(http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/1426/4e341ti4.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Sorry I can't be more specific, mine is a V6....
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most problems on 2.0 16v are caused by idle control valve,cleaned mine out with carb cleaner then lubricated valve with little wd40,breathers were clean,but had to back thorttle right off, because engine was reving to hgh,people usual adjust throttle to far to compensate for the idle valve,cleaning out is better thing to do,no probs with mine,runs very smooth now. :y
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Cheers fellas, Haynes had already told me where to look for the CTS, but unfortunately it's about as inaccessible as it could be. I managed to spot it from beneath, looking around the exhaust, then I could work it out 'by feel' from above/behind. Got the connector off, hoping to find wiring damage, or corroded connections, but no such 'easily fixed' luck... I guess I could remove and replace it by feel also, but I think I'll ask my local Vauxhall to quote, as that'll be far less of a PITA.
Idle valve is high on the to-do list after this, carb-cleaner at the ready!
Thanks for kind help,
Pete
Edit: Booked in for Wednesday morning, quoted £45 all in, :y.
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Cheers fellas, Haynes had already told me where to look for the CTS, but unfortunately it's about as inaccessible as it could be. I managed to spot it from beneath, looking around the exhaust, then I could work it out 'by feel' from above/behind. Got the connector off, hoping to find wiring damage, or corroded connections, but no such 'easily fixed' luck... I guess I could remove and replace it by feel also, but I think I'll ask my local Vauxhall to quote, as that'll be far less of a PITA.
Idle valve is high on the to-do list after this, carb-cleaner at the ready!
Thanks for kind help,
Pete
Edit: Booked in for Wednesday morning, quoted £45 all in, :y.
£45! They usually want that just to diagnose the fault. :o
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Yeah, but I'd already done that... With thanks to my patient girlfriend, who read through all my printouts from this site, didn't give up at the first hurdle when it didn't seem to work with engine running etc. I was operating with a monster 'wedding-reception + pub afterwards' hangover so I needed lots of help!
Plus I've been spending a fair bit at their parts department v. recently, and they're v. helpful and friendly; parts dept right next to service and sales, all one big happy team. Kindly advised me the other day that coolant change/flush etc was something that I'd be able to do myself without difficulty. Nice attitude.
Still curious to know what the other two pipes going to the 3-way fitting on the inlet manifold where the small breather goes through might be/do? Couldn't spot it on the exploded diagrams on the parts guy's screen. One of the pipes goes to some widget right at the front of the engine (O/S), the other one, I can't even see where the pipe goes...
I reckon they'll have that CTS replaced in about 10 mins too, as opposed to 3 hours and much swearing, & loss of skin if I do it. ;)
Edit, forgot to say, thanks to those who've advised me on this thread, and those who've created the site, and written the excellent tech info/FAQ type threads. If any of you ever want help on the Pierburg 2E2 carb, as fitted to lots of (mature!) VWs, please visit ClubGti, I've learned a lot on there, and am eager to (try to) help anyone.
Pete
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I had a veccy with the same x20xev engine and I had very unpredictable bouts of miss-fire at steady high revs (usually on the motorway) causing the eml light to come on and occasional stalling at idle. Accompanied with a small bit of blue/grey smoke at startup. Did all the usual checks and even pressure tested the cylinders to check the piston rings, but all ok. about 6 months in the HG went after a coolant pipe blew at 'motorway cruising speed' with a full boot. Took the head off and thought I would recondition the head and low and behold a valve stem oil seal had a huge hole in it. Replaced all the seal reground the valves put it back together and hey presto problem solved.
Just a thought......
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Pete,
To answer your question about the two pipes...
I assume you referring to the hoses that connect each side of the metal breather port (that the thin breather hose goes on).
If so, they are coolant hoses. Their purpose in life appears to be to superheat the metal port so that the crud that builds up inside it gets baked into the hardest substance known to man.. you know what I mean having cleaned it out ;)
Cheers
Ian
(I also have a 2.0 with erratic idling - comes and goes)
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... Their purpose in life appears to be to superheat the metal port so that the crud that builds up inside it gets baked into the hardest substance known to man.. you know what I mean having cleaned it out ;)
LOL, I know exactly what you mean, And very amusingly put. Cheers Ian.
That's kinda good news though, 'cos now I don't have to be concerned that they're blocked air/vac hoses.
I don't know what size that little hole is meant to be, but I did have an idea about cleaning it out thoroughly, once an initial clear path has been achieved. How about getting a long, fine needle, with some strong thread soaked in carb cleaner, and 'flossing' it? Not sure whether the diameter of the hole vs the dia of the thinnest long-enough needle would make this possible...
mrgaffney: no misfires on mine, nor blue smoke at start-up, so I hope I don't have the same 'issue' as you did!
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I removed mine from the car to get better access (also to avoid dropping anything where it shouldn't go ;)). Then cleaned it out with a small twist drill (per suggestion on here I think).
I'm sure the car goes better now but I haven't conquered the idling problems - sometimes its fine, idling around 6-700 rpm, other time more like 1500+ and sometimes hunts (goes up and down). I suspect something sticking as I think if a hose was leaking etc I would get a consistent fault.
...actually I lied. as is well known the hardest known substance known to man is the what gets left on the bowl after eating weetabix if you leave it in a sunny kitchen all day without doing the washing up.. ;D ;D
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Pretty sure porridge goes harder still ;)
Don't s'pose you can remember what the biggest drill you got through was? (P.S. I understand that it wouldn't be a great idea to experiment along these lines with it in-situ).
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I don't I'm afraid - I started off small and used slightly bigger ones until I was pretty sure it was clean.
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if your still having problems with the small breather pipe where it mounts to the throttle body this can be removed with a 19mm spanner just take the throttle body off, mine was blocked solid and no amount of injenious ideas would solve it, if you live near essex then drop me a pm and i can show you, but its not to diffucult
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[size=18]DOH[/size] :(
[size=11]Just had a call from Vauxhall. They've changed the CTS, but still have code 14 showing "Coolant temperature sensor voltage too low" (was previously codes 14 and 15).
Does this mean anything to anyone? Has the duff sensor killed a voltage-rail o/p in this circuit? I'm naively hoping this is just the ECU 'getting used to' the new sensor and will go away over the next few minutes/hours of running.
They want an hour's labour just to 'further investigate'.
I'm gonna take it away as-is and hope/pray that someone on here's had a similar experience and can advise...[/size]
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[size=18]DOH[/size] :(
[size=11]Just had a call from Vauxhall. They've changed the CTS, but still have code 14 showing "Coolant temperature sensor voltage too low" (was previously codes 14 and 15).
Does this mean anything to anyone? Has the duff sensor killed a voltage-rail o/p in this circuit? I'm naively hoping this is just the ECU 'getting used to' the new sensor and will go away over the next few minutes/hours of running.
They want an hour's labour just to 'further investigate'.
I'm gonna take it away as-is and hope/pray that someone on here's had a similar experience and can advise...[/size]
Its not the new sensor 'bedding in' - so looking at a 2nd faulty sensor, wiring issue, or ECU knack'd
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;D Puts me in mind of a phrase a pal of mine used to say...
I've had a great day, but this wasn't it!
Next numptie question then, where's the ECU? Down by the battery in that triangularish box?
::)
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;D Puts me in mind of a phrase a pal of mine used to say...
I've had a great day, but this wasn't it!
Next numptie question then, where's the ECU? Down by the battery in that triangularish box?
::)
Yes.
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Thanks again TheBoy.
Note to self: Grease bonnet catch to reduce wear and tear in the forthcoming days...
Just measured the old sensor, 4K7 at RT, quite healthy probably :'(
(Thorough) wiring check next...
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Sorry to keep bringing this up, but progress again, unfortunately not all good.
Tracked down the residual sensor problem to a short in the wiring. The 'live' side of the sensor being just as grounded as the ground side...
Scratched head for a while, then decided to run a new bit of ptfe-insulated wire all the way from ECU connector to sensor connector. Measured OK, short gone, started up and no more EML!
Test drive went Ok-ish, but now the over-revving with foot off pedal is worse. Guess the ECU's now saying "no need for the limp home mode, all systems go". Was disconnected for about an hour while I did the re-wire, so would have reset? Now blaming really bad ICV gasket (bits missing) for the rev problem...Maybe the ECU was working round this before the reset?
Decided it was time to drop in the new gasket I'd got for the ICV; went well until I tried to start 'her' up again. Cranking, cranking, cranking, no starting. Harumph. Guess I've broken sth else ::).
What a day.
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The high revving will likely be an air leak.
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The high revving will likely be an air leak.
Almost definately.. or a vaccum hose off...
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I've not read this thread, so forgive me if I'm off the mark here..
So you're saying that Vx changed the CTS, and charged you for it, when they had not even checked for a short to 0v at it's loom connector, or ECU end?
Auto electronics is my weak point, but even I could tell them to do that.
Muppets. I would demand a refund, on the basis they were "replacing and hoping"
:(
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And it goes on...
Let it cool down for hour and a half or so, disconnected batt for ten minutes, then finally got it to start. I'm wondering whether fixing the sensor wiring problem while the engine was warm has confused the heck out of the ECU w.r.t. what's hot and what's cold. Should one ensure that the engine's quite cold before resetting an ECU by disconnnecting batt? Especially if the fault was a temperature sensor? I'm wondering if I've been a bit (!?) daft here.
Anyway, decided it needed a decent run to make up for all the cranking, and this went OK. Still some funny revving stuff at traffic lights, feels like ICV sticking, TPS problem, or an unfortunate combination of the two :-/. 30 miles later decided to head back home, 2 miles from my front door I stopped at a roundabout whereupon the revs died and it cut out totally.
Put the emergency lights on, cranking, cranking, cranking, oh my poor starter motor/engine; started again eventually and got me home.
Can't let my girlfriend attempt to use it in this state. I'll just have to try to get it the 4 miles to my work tomorrow, and try to sort it out there.
If I take the motor part of the ICV off, would it be OK to ultrasonic the valve part in carb-cleaner or equivalent? I'm wondering if there's anything in there that might not appreciate this treatment?
And does anyone know if the throttle position sensor is take-apartable? I saw one off a golf once with it's lid off, but haven't looked closely at the one on this car.
Thanks, I'll stop whining soon, I promise.
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And it goes on...
Let it cool down for hour and a half or so, disconnected batt for ten minutes, then finally got it to start. I'm wondering whether fixing the sensor wiring problem while the engine was warm has confused the heck out of the ECU w.r.t. what's hot and what's cold. Should one ensure that the engine's quite cold before resetting an ECU by disconnnecting batt? Especially if the fault was a temperature sensor? I'm wondering if I've been a bit (!?) daft here.
Anyway, decided it needed a decent run to make up for all the cranking, and this went OK. Still some funny revving stuff at traffic lights, feels like ICV sticking, TPS problem, or an unfortunate combination of the two :-/. 30 miles later decided to head back home, 2 miles from my front door I stopped at a roundabout whereupon the revs died and it cut out totally.
Put the emergency lights on, cranking, cranking, cranking, oh my poor starter motor/engine; started again eventually and got me home.
Can't let my girlfriend attempt to use it in this state. I'll just have to try to get it the 4 miles to my work tomorrow, and try to sort it out there.
If I take the motor part of the ICV off, would it be OK to ultrasonic the valve part in carb-cleaner or equivalent? I'm wondering if there's anything in there that might not appreciate this treatment?
And does anyone know if the throttle position sensor is take-apartable? I saw one off a golf once with it's lid off, but haven't looked closely at the one on this car.
Thanks, I'll stop whining soon, I promise.
Sounds like you're actually making progress.
Is the EML off? If so, it might be wise to get the codes reset, and see what, if anything, reappears
Take the soleniod off the end of the ECV, and give it a good soak in carb cleaner or something. Make sure throttle body and breathers all clear, and replace with new gaskets, all to the right torque.
Religiously go around the whole engine bay, make sure all connectors are home and you cannot see loom damage. Make sure all vacc pipes are home and secure.
There's not much more this can be now, my money is on a sensor issue, or a sensor not plugged in etc..
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I've not read this thread, so forgive me if I'm off the mark here..
So you're saying that Vx changed the CTS, and charged you for it, when they had not even checked for a short to 0v at it's loom connector, or ECU end?
Auto electronics is my weak point, but even I could tell them to do that.
Muppets. I would demand a refund, on the basis they were "replacing and hoping"
:(
I see what you mean, but that wouldn't be completely fair, because I didn't actually ask them to fix the problem, I just asked them to change the sensor. I was (overly as it turns out) sure this would remove all faults, having visually checked the wiring myself and concluded that it looked OK. So I don't blame them, they offered to do 'further investigation', obviously not for free, but it was my diagnosis that was iffy, not what they did.
Edit: EML hasn't reappeared since fixing the short. I'll have a good look round the engine bay (tomorrow) for connections, air leaks etc. I'll also reset the ECU again with the engine cold. And see if it has any fault codes stored before and after this. It's the trouble starting the engine that's worrying me most just now, hoping that's related to the resetting of the ECU with engine not cold....
thanks for your help chaps, a bit on seems like an unfortunate choice of username right now ;D
Pete
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I've not read this thread, so forgive me if I'm off the mark here..
So you're saying that Vx changed the CTS, and charged you for it, when they had not even checked for a short to 0v at it's loom connector, or ECU end?
Auto electronics is my weak point, but even I could tell them to do that.
Muppets. I would demand a refund, on the basis they were "replacing and hoping"
:(
I see what you mean, but that wouldn't be completely fair, because I didn't actually ask them to fix the problem, I just asked them to change the sensor. I was (overly as it turns out) sure this would remove all faults, having visually checked the wiring myself and concluded that it looked OK. So I don't blame them, they offered to do 'further investigation', obviously not for free, but it was my diagnosis that was iffy, not what they did.
Ahh
Difference is though, they're trained up... I would have expected them to get a full overview of the situation before commencing work, including discussion of symptoms and possible other routes of investigation with the customer ::)
But then, this is VX ;D
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They did ask me who had diagnosed the need for a replacement sensor. Had I not replied "I did" quite so confidently, they may have been more thorough. Such misplaced confidence, with the benefit of hindsight :-[.
Edit: Thursday 0800ish, Well...
Disconnected the batt neg again this morning while I had brekkie. Reconnected and it started, reluctantly. Got me to work too, but the revs were all over the place, particularly when changing up. Also seems to surge at idle.
ICV's coming off at lunchtime for an ultrasonic, and the TPS is going to be scrutinised (dare say I'll have to get brutal with a seam on the plastic enclosure, but it won't be the first time... Hot soldering iron tip has been known to successfully reseal such things). If I stuff it up, Vx place is only a short walk away...A bit on, still.
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They did ask me who had diagnosed the need for a replacement sensor. Had I not replied "I did" quite so confidently, they may have been more thorough. Such misplaced confidence, with the benefit of hindsight :-[.
We've all learned through making mistakes, don't worry about it :y
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is the cam sensor still showing a fault - this will cause difficult starting.
Additionally, check the loom, seeing as you have already had shorts in it, particularly around the battery tray and abs unit.
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Never saw a cam-sensor fault, but will do another paperclip test at lunchtime (could be a long lunch!)
Will look at loom too, thanks. It did seem to start better this morning than last night, so I'm wondrin if the engine needed to be cold to get the ECU to self-calibrate correctly to the new sensor (or am I over-estimating what it does?).
Thanks to all for continuing support and suggestions. :y
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I'm wondrin if the engine needed to be cold to get the ECU to self-calibrate correctly to the new sensor (or am I over-estimating what it does?).
No, it will work off the real data almost as soon as it gets valid data.
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Thanks again.
Part of my starting problem may have been operator error, I think.
Talking to a colleague who's been wrestling with his daughter's reluctant Mondeo (or suchlike) he Please read the manual'ed and discovered that the foot/pedal scenario is very different than when starting a carbed car, and opening throttle to try to 'help' it will do nothing of the sort. My (other) car is carbed, though with a fully automatic choke that usually requires no go-pedal help, but my instincts are based on cars that do benefit... :-[
Is it true to say that having nobbed up in this fashion, the situation is best recovered by putting foot slowly to the floor before turning the key, and holding it down while initiating cranking? More for me to learn!
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Start with no pedal at all.
If you suspect its flooded, crank at WOT (on injection cars, this will not fire injectors, allowing you to remove petrol from cylinders).
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Ta.
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And it goes on...
Let it cool down for hour and a half or so, disconnected batt for ten minutes, then finally got it to start. I'm wondering whether fixing the sensor wiring problem while the engine was warm has confused the heck out of the ECU w.r.t. what's hot and what's cold. Should one ensure that the engine's quite cold before resetting an ECU by disconnnecting batt? Especially if the fault was a temperature sensor? I'm wondering if I've been a bit (!?) daft here.
Anyway, decided it needed a decent run to make up for all the cranking, and this went OK. Still some funny revving stuff at traffic lights, feels like ICV sticking, TPS problem, or an unfortunate combination of the two :-/. 30 miles later decided to head back home, 2 miles from my front door I stopped at a roundabout whereupon the revs died and it cut out totally.
Put the emergency lights on, cranking, cranking, cranking, oh my poor starter motor/engine; started again eventually and got me home.
Can't let my girlfriend attempt to use it in this state. I'll just have to try to get it the 4 miles to my work tomorrow, and try to sort it out there.
If I take the motor part of the ICV off, would it be OK to ultrasonic the valve part in carb-cleaner or equivalent? I'm wondering if there's anything in there that might not appreciate this treatment?
And does anyone know if the throttle position sensor is take-apartable? I saw one off a golf once with it's lid off, but haven't looked closely at the one on this car.
Thanks, I'll stop whining soon, I promise.
Sounds like you're actually making progress.
Is the EML off? If so, it might be wise to get the codes reset, and see what, if anything, reappears
Take the soleniod off the end of the ECV, and give it a good soak in carb cleaner or something. Make sure throttle body and breathers all clear, and replace with new gaskets, all to the right torque.
Religiously go around the whole engine bay, make sure all connectors are home and you cannot see loom damage. Make sure all vacc pipes are home and secure.
There's not much more this can be now, my money is on a sensor issue, or a sensor not plugged in etc..
just thought i'd mention, when i bought mine 2.0 16v gls, it ran fine then developed very weird idling problems and stalling at lights/islands etc, after thoroughly cleaning everything it wasn't too bad but still there, replaced the ICV and it's as good as new now. They are about £35 off ebay, well worth the investment, also give a quick look to the wiring loom to the crankshaft sensor as the coating is prone to perishing which may cause interference, another problem i had with mine, sounded like it was running on 2 cylinders, lol. just unclipped the wire and wrapped some insulation tape to it for now till i can get it changed....just a thought
paul
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Thanks penguin79, the crankshaft wiring thing sounds worth a check, I suppose that's somewhere horribly inaccessible? ;D
You wouldn't be penguin45 somewhere else perchance?
ICV's just been treated to an entire can of carb cleaner, and is now in the ultrasonic (not the solenoid bit!), getting it's final wash and brush up. Lots of crud in there, 135000 miles worth, or at least since the small breather's been completely blocked...
The far end of the main 'can' where it's assembled through, has a crimped-on end cap, which seems to leak some air, so I'll be sealing that somehow before it goes back on. Can't imagine that's intentional.
TPS a different story. Bit of a battle to get in, but determination'll get me into most things [smiley=wink.gif].
No probs with that. Felt very wibbly and nasty before opening, but inside it was in good nick. Put it on an analogue meter and moved it back and forth, nice smooth change of resistance all the way, either way. So I think I've ruled out that as a problem. Lid being araldited back on now.
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Reinstalled ICV and TPS without problems. Started, rather reluctantly after prolonged cranking, and got me home. But every time I changed gear the revs wound up to about 3K, embarrassing. When I get home I park up and after maybe 6 seconds the revs drop to around 1150 and sit there steady as a rock. Seems like giving the ICV the cleaning of its life has just made it stranger! Shouldn't it find an 850-ish idle speed?
Read the fault codes again, and we're back to 14 and 15, like before... The Vx peeps said they'd only got 14 after changing the sensor, but I didn't think to check this myself. Thought that the disappearance of the EML light after fixing the short meant the codes would all be gone, especially after the 15 minute batt neg disconnection I did while I had brekkie this morning.
So tried the other method of clearing codes, switching ignition to the position before cranking for 5 seconds, then off 30 times. No change, still 14 and 15. Am I nobbing up this clearing of codes? How should I do it, in detail please (if different from what I've already tried). Beers are on me for the poster who solves this whole shebang, obviously.
Took the ECU right out for internal scrutiny, but no obvious combusted bits, very tidy looking bit of kit TBH.
Tired of this...
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not sure if disconnecting battery works for 4 pot, certainly won't for the motronic cars.
Best way is a code reader if you have access to one...
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Fancy a trip down the A43?
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Fancy a trip down the A43?
time is the problem at the moment. where are you?
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Just S of Oxford, but don't worry if you're busy, my Golf's only (current!) problem is alternator, and I can fix that between now and when we next really need a car... probably ::).
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Just S of Oxford, but don't worry if you're busy, my Golf's only (current!) problem is alternator, and I can fix that between now and when we next really need a car... probably ::).
What year is it, Tech2 can only do 2.0l from 97 onwards. Early requires a Tech1, and I know of one in Oxfordshire ;)
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Ah, N-reg, 96, so I'll PM you my phone number to forward to your contact near me? And beers will be bought for this kindness next time you're around here. :y
Just popped the ECU back in, still got codes 14 & 15, no others. I'm now wondering whether the fact that it still believes these things are/have been wrong means it's still operating on info it had then, so the more changes I make to e.g. the ICV, the further it's getting from what it's used to. But surely the EML light would still be on if that were the case? :-/
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OK, sorry to resurrect this one, but I've finally got somewhere with it.
New ICV fitted just now. Foot off throttle no longer resulting in stupidly high revs (ever). I'm guessing that my attempts to clean the old ICV neglected the bypass drillings as I mentioned today on Danny's thread (old valve does have them, just hard to see). The return spring may also have been too weak for its role. I'm thinking of milling off one side of the old valve to have a look how it all goes internally. Edit 1430: Got the end cap off instead. 'tain't quite how I expected inside. Under the crimped-on steel endcap there's a plastic 'bung with an o-ring seal against the inside of the main cylindrical housing. The bypass drillings communicate through to this end, and to a second valve which is on the same shaft as the one in the middle. I was surprised to find that my cleaning had indeed removed all the junk from this end of things too, though I did try to move the valves as I cleaned, and propped them open when it was in the ultrasonic. The second valve seat appears to have some asymmetric wear, which was perhaps 'concealed' from having an adverse effect by all the gunk that was formerly there, I guess...May also have been an air leak via the end cap/o-ring, which was in quite poor condition. I'll try to take some photos later. Would anyone like to volunteer to host/post them, as I'm a bit ignorant about how to achieve this?
Drive is a bit jerky at light throttle, and idle a bit high at a shade over 1K, but I'm hoping the ECU will figure out the new status quo over the next little while and everything should come good.
Cheers everyone who's helped me with this, and :y to those who said ICV as the main problem.
;D ;D