Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: star_whites on 03 June 2007, 00:13:25
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Hey All
Still having problems with my 1998 2.0 auto est. Mechanics not been to reset timing and have had enough of waiting so Ive looked through the haynes manual which explains a majority of what I need to know (i.e. finding top dead centre and setting up the tensioner) however it just says to line up the two notches on the camshaft sprokets with the two marks on the head. This is where I have a problem as my right hand (looking from front of car) sproket has two marks on it.
Question being which mark should I go by??
Im going to attemt this in the morning even though I have been advised not to by the mechanic that did the head gasket as he swears its not out (even though you can see the lines are out and the cylinders and firing right. I think the one thing that worries me is getting the tensioner right otherwise I may bugger the engine.
Any advise anyone? :-/
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Checking and adjusting the cam timing on the 2.0 is not a difficult job, for anyone with a small amount of confidence.
In Summary:
1) Slacken off (but don't remove) all of the crankshaft pulley (E10) Torx bolts.
2) Using a 15mm spanner on the Auxilliary belt tensioner pulley bolt, turn the bolt clockwise, and hold it there. This will relieve the tension on the aux belt. Remove the Aux belt from a couple of pulleys, and then slowly release the Aux belt tensioner bolt to it's original position.
3) Fully remove the 6 E10 bolts holding on the outer crankshaft pulley, and remove it. It may need a bit of persuasion from a mallet (rubber only, don't use a hammer).
4) Remove the top cable tray cover, pop the cables out, and remove the cable tray. It's clipped onto the rear timing cover, and from memory there is also a nut in the middle.
5) Undo the relevent E10 torx bolts, and the 13mm bolt in the centre at the top, and remove the outer timing cover.
6) Rotate the engine on the bottom pulley bolt, only EVER in a clockwise direction. (nb, turning the engine anti-clockwise will cause the belt to slip!!). Rotate the engine, until the cut-out, in the bottom pulley, is lined up exactly with it's cut out on the engine. This will be at the very bottom, facing the floor.
7) Once you have the crank in this position, look at your cam pulleys. As you're FACING the engine, from the front of the car, look at the pulley to your left (drivers side). The INLET mark on the pulley, should be lined up with the cut-out on the rear timing cover. Now look at the other pulley. On this Pulley, the EXHAUST mark, should be lined up with the mark on the rear cam-cover.
8) Now look at the tensioner. This bit's pretty self explanatory, there are two marks on the tensioner backplate - NEW and USED, depending on what kind of belt you're fitting! If yours is set in this area, then you won't have a problem.
9) For good measure, look at the water pump. Is the raised bit on the water pump, installed in the recess in the cam cover? This can significantly affect tension.
10) If you need to adjust the cam pulleys at all, make sure you do so with a solid bar, and NOT a ratchet - this prevents the pulleys from slipping back under valve spring pressure. I strongly advise use of a Draper camlocking tool for this Engine, only about £6.
11) If all checks out to be well and good, or once you're happy with any adjustments made, re-assemble (reverse of taking apart!) and presume the problem is not valve timing related....
12) If there are any errors or omissions in this post, don't blame me, it's 02:30am, and I've had WAY too much cider ;D
Hope this sheds some light, post back up if you're still having issues... :)
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By the way, what are the symptoms, and are there any fault codes?!
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Thanks James
The faults are an ongoing issue from an earlier post. The headgasket blew so I sent it away to be repaired. This was done and returned to me with engine management issued (There no EMI when it went for repair) . Found these to be Cam Sensor and Throttle Housing sensor. Replaced both with new, errased throttle housing sensor and was still left with a cam sensor fault.
Got mobile tune/electrician out who diagnosed that cam sensor was faulty (which I already knew). Recommended I get an electrician as he thought it was a wiring issue do to only one live going to cam sensor then charged me £40 and buggered off.
My brother popped round to borrow some ramps late at night, had a quick look and straight away said timing was out and its firing on number 2 cylinder first. Arranged for mechanic (different one) to come and reset it, however Im still waiting and have been without car for over a month so am going to have a crack myself!!
Wish me luck lol
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Thanks James
The faults are an ongoing issue from an earlier post. The headgasket blew so I sent it away to be repaired. This was done and returned to me with engine management issued (There no EMI when it went for repair) . Found these to be Cam Sensor and Throttle Housing sensor. Replaced both with new, errased throttle housing sensor and was still left with a cam sensor fault.
Got mobile tune/electrician out who diagnosed that cam sensor was faulty (which I already knew). Recommended I get an electrician as he thought it was a wiring issue do to only one live going to cam sensor then charged me £40 and buggered off.
My brother popped round to borrow some ramps late at night, had a quick look and straight away said timing was out and its firing on number 2 cylinder first. Arranged for mechanic (different one) to come and reset it, however Im still waiting and have been without car for over a month so am going to have a crack myself!!
Wish me luck lol
It will be a useful excercise to check the cam timing, but I'm still not 100% convinced it's that, at this stage.
If it was firing in the wrong order, you'd have a very bad misfire. Presumable, the plug leads are on the right way?
Look at the DIS pack at the rear of the head, you'll have to get your head and maybe a light in there, but in each corner of the DIS there is a number: 1 to 4. Make sure No1 is going to No1 pot at the cambelt end of the engine, No2 to the one behind that, and so on.
Check ALL connections, including the three 0v connections near the injector rail, and the three big round ones near the battery tray. Make sure they are all home, and there is no wiring damage.
Regardless of codes stored, can you say specifically if there are any symptoms or strange behaviours...
Post up the news, I'm interested in this one :)
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Ok
Well Ive checked and reset the timing and that was a lot easier than I thought it would be, however no difference. EML is still on and autobox is coming on screen in dash.
Have looked at DIS pack to check connections, however there are no visable numbers listed. I wiped it down to see if they were buried beneath the dirt but they are not.
Any one got any idea which lead goes to which connection.
Looking at them they seam to be in a strange order. Looking from front of engine they are connected like this:
back left : Cylinder 4 Back Right: Cylinder 2
Front left: Cylinder 1 Front Right: Cylinder 3
Any ideas if this is correct as yet again the haynes manual does not show you!!
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Help!!!!! Does anyone know the settings for the DIS Module
Have yet again looked for numbers and cant find any, does anyone know or has a 2.0 they can check on. Would be greatly appreciated :-/
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Help!!!!! Does anyone know the settings for the DIS Module
Have yet again looked for numbers and cant find any, does anyone know or has a 2.0 they can check on. Would be greatly appreciated :-/
Pretty sure the numbers on the DIS are by the bolt holes, hard to see, but they WILL be there :)
From memory mate, I'm 99.99999% sure that the way you have mentioned above is correct though
Was the cam timing out then? Where, and by how much?
The Auto gearbox problem - is that new, or has it been doing that all along?
Check the throttle body (butterfly area) near the throttle cable, there should be a 3 pin plug, going into the bottom of this area. This is the throttle position sensor - this being unplugged will cause the "automatic gearbox" message to appear and limp mode to occur...
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Will go and look again and see if I can get my head right over the DIS module.
The autobox warnign has been coming up ever since it came back from having the head done.
The timing appeared to be correct, each notch lined up and the no 1 piston is set correct and not on exhaust. Will check the connection mentioned on throttl body however have already replaced the module.
Will report back shortly!!
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Will go and look again and see if I can get my head right over the DIS module.
The autobox warnign has been coming up ever since it came back from having the head done.
The timing appeared to be correct, each notch lined up and the no 1 piston is set correct and not on exhaust. Will check the connection mentioned on throttl body however have already replaced the module.
Will report back shortly!!
If you're getting the Automatic gearbox message, it's really important to check the blue round plug by the battery tray, and the TPS.
It might be worth finding someone with TIS, and trace the wires from the Throttle Position Connector to the relevent pins on the ECU connector for consistency and shorts.
I'm willing to bet this is something really silly.
Only wish you were closer, I'd take a look :(
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Just had another look and cant see numbers so reconnected them the way I took them off and started her up but no change.
When you rev she still sounds retarded. Was going thinking off taking blue plug out and checking connetions however was not sure how it parted and didnt want to damage it.
Without sounding too thick whats TIS & TPS
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Just had another look and cant see numbers so reconnected them the way I took them off and started her up but no change.
When you rev she still sounds retarded. Was going thinking off taking blue plug out and checking connetions however was not sure how it parted and didnt want to damage it.
Without sounding too thick whats TIS & TPS
TIS - information system, software package with lots of information.
TPS is just the throttle position sensor.
Have a look under the car, and make sure he plugged the O2 sensor on the downpipe back in when he dropped the exhaust.
The round connector, twist ring anticlockwise to remove, and clockwise to refit... I would reseat this if I were you.
We may need Mark's advice on this one ;D
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I have also noticed that there are two connectors under the cowling near the drivers side wiper that are not connected. Neither are the same type but I cannot see what they are supposed to be for. I have never seen them before?
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I have also noticed that there are two connectors under the cowling near the drivers side wiper that are not connected. Neither are the same type but I cannot see what they are supposed to be for. I have never seen them before?
Are they tied up?
They may be for cruise control (even if you don't have it - located near the drivers side strut)
Or, they could be level sensors, if you only have a base model etc...
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Nope they are not tied up, and yes you maybe right as I only have the CD model.
Removed multiplugs and that has erradicated the autobox fault (THANKU). One down lord knows how many more to go.
On starting up it now takes about 5 seconds for the EML to come on. Not checked O2 sensor yet. GOt to get jack out for that.
Did paperclip test again and its coming up with 0120 and 0340 so crank and cam sensor. Have already replaced the cam sensor and I know when autotune guy was here it did not show cranksensor as a fault cause he had engine running whilst doing test. Have found paperclip will only work when ignition is off!
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Nope they are not tied up, and yes you maybe right as I only have the CD model.
Removed multiplugs and that has erradicated the autobox fault (THANKU). One down lord knows how many more to go.
On starting up it now takes about 5 seconds for the EML to come on. Not checked O2 sensor yet. GOt to get jack out for that.
Did paperclip test again and its coming up with 0120 and 0340 so crank and cam sensor. Have already replaced the cam sensor and I know when autotune guy was here it did not show cranksensor as a fault cause he had engine running whilst doing test. Have found paperclip will only work when ignition is off!
Ahhh so we're making progress then! Presumably, when you removed the multiplugs, you then reseated them? ;)
I think you can only flash codes out of simtec ECUs (like yours) with ignition off
The 2.0, believe it or not, will run without a crank sensor. Make sure this is plugged in!!! will your car rev all the way up to the redline?
I still think something is unplugged or not seated right etc...
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Have not checked the bottom end of the cranksensor as I cant find it. Ive found the top half and made sure that is connected however when I looked down the engine the cable disapears behing the air con unit and I cant see where.
What I have found is that the car sounds like its backfiring when you take your foot off the gas. Have not taken revs any higher than 4000 so dont know about that.
Can you access crank sensor from the underneath of car?? as I have a brand new one but didnt fit it as I could not find it!!
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Have not checked the bottom end of the cranksensor as I cant find it. Ive found the top half and made sure that is connected however when I looked down the engine the cable disapears behing the air con unit and I cant see where.
What I have found is that the car sounds like its backfiring when you take your foot off the gas. Have not taken revs any higher than 4000 so dont know about that.
Can you access crank sensor from the underneath of car?? as I have a brand new one but didnt fit it as I could not find it!!
Crank sensor a bit of a bugger on the 2.0, but do-able. It's down by the passenger side engine mounting.
Plugs in near the injector rail...
PS, a faulty crank sensor, can also throw a cam sensor code... which may be happening in your case...
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Just been out and tried to put it onto the ramps to check and found that its too low to the floor to use them lol
Will have to use jack & axle stand. Also reved her up whilst out there and found that she cuts out at 4000 revs and drops to idle.
When you say plugs in near injector rail, is that at the front of engine or rear as just noticed another connector the same at the rear?
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Ps : is it easier to change from above or below the car??????
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Ps : is it easier to change from above or below the car??????
Personally did if from above,
Most likely held in with an E8 torx bolt
If you've got a new crank sensor, I would recommend putting it in, to eliminate it.
Connector I think is near the front of injector rail (timing belt end)
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Well Ive looked from above and had a feel(burning my arm) and cant see/feel it. I take it that it is mounted at the front around the air con compresor?
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Well Ive looked from above and had a feel(burning my arm) and cant see/feel it. I take it that it is mounted at the front around the air con compresor?
It's on the passenger side of the block, near the front....
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Well I cant see or feel it from underneath so back to looking from above, however engine is a little warm at the momebt, its taking ages to cool due to it being so hot!!
Tracing the cable I would say that the sensor is roughly behind the air compresor but at the moment havent found it.
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Well I cant see or feel it from underneath so back to looking from above, however engine is a little warm at the momebt, its taking ages to cool due to it being so hot!!
Tracing the cable I would say that the sensor is roughly behind the air compresor but at the moment havent found it.
You are right about location - it IS a bugger on the ones with Aircon fitted...
It IS unlikely your CS would have failed, as a result of the work done, but if you're getting the code, and you have a new one, it can't hurt to try it!
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Would you say it is easier to remove aircon unit or find it without touching it??
Dont want to have to pay for that recharging on top of everything else if dont have too lol ;D
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Would you say it is easier to remove aircon unit or find it without touching it??
Dont want to have to pay for that recharging on top of everything else if dont have too lol ;D
You MAY be able to loosen the compressor and nudge it over enough to gain access, without disturbing the refrigerant
However, I would if I were you, await the thing to cool down, it makes things so much easier...
Maybe you could reach from below with it cold and get it...
I must confess to never having done one on a 2.0 with aircon!!!
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Well I jacked it up in the air and there is 0 access to it, however i found by pushing the dipstick pipe over I could just get my hand in and guide the No 8 socket and medium extension on to it, but I cant get enough leverage to grip the bolt as I think Im slighlty at an angle.
Think Im going to have to either undue the compressor and nudge it over or remove the manifold which would give me loads of room.
Either way its a complete b###### to do when you have aircon. I bet its simple without.
Then to top it off I had the mechanic that did the intial repairs stood watching from accross the street making comments which really made me determind to sort this and say whose the mechanic!!!!!!!!
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Well I jacked it up in the air and there is 0 access to it, however i found by pushing the dipstick pipe over I could just get my hand in and guide the No 8 socket and medium extension on to it, but I cant get enough leverage to grip the bolt as I think Im slighlty at an angle.
Think Im going to have to either undue the compressor and nudge it over or remove the manifold which would give me loads of room.
Either way its a complete b###### to do when you have aircon. I bet its simple without.
Then to top it off I had the mechanic that did the intial repairs stood watching from accross the street making comments which really made me determind to sort this and say whose the mechanic!!!!!!!!
Tell him to bugger off... the only way to learn, is to get your hands dirty :y
I'd steer clear of manifold removal if you can...
What does Haynes say?
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By the way, she wont run when the crank sensor is unplugged as I tried and she just turned over and over without firing :-?
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The Haynes manual does not tell you how to change a Crank Sensor. To be honest everything Ive wnted to do since I bought it are not included within the Haynes Manual (What a waste of money!!)
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By the way, she wont run when the crank sensor is unplugged as I tried and she just turned over and over without firing :-?
Interesting, my 2.0 DEFINATELY runs without the crank sensor plugged in, regardless of what anyone else says ;D ;D ;D
I wouldn't have thought it was technically possible, but there you go.
The fact that it won't run without it plugged in, means it's talking to it - maybe it's getting a naff signal for some reason - what condition is the wire in?
Of course, we may be nowhere near the mark....
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The wiring to it (that I can see, as compresor is in way of other end) is in pretty good condition. no kinks or splits.
Still making me wonder if cam sensor could be the problem. I had to cut the wiring to fit the new sensor and due to speed and as a temporary measure I fitted it with terminal blocks until I found that it was this that was the fault and then I planned to solder it together. Is it possible that it wont be feeding a proper signal back through the terminal blocks???
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The wiring to it (that I can see, as compresor is in way of other end) is in pretty good condition. no kinks or splits.
Still making me wonder if cam sensor could be the problem. I had to cut the wiring to fit the new sensor and due to speed and as a temporary measure I fitted it with terminal blocks until I found that it was this that was the fault and then I planned to solder it together. Is it possible that it wont be feeding a proper signal back through the terminal blocks???
Ahhh.... may be onto something here!
Get rid of the connector block... and solder the wires together, then protect with heatshrink.
Make sure this is perfect before investigating the crank sensor.
One thing I learned from Mark - dodgey connections on an engine management loom just will not do!!
Once you've done that, post up the results.
Out of interest, why did you have to cut the wires? Was the other sensor the wrong one? A bit concerning.... maybe the root of the issue...
I'd be interested in Mr DTM's view on this thread...
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may be barking up the wrong tree here but have never known a lambda sensor to survive a blown head gasket!! the antifreeze chemicals kill the precious metals in the lambda rendering it useless!!!
Omegatoy
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may be barking up the wrong tree here but have never known a lambda sensor to survive a blown head gasket!! the antifreeze chemicals kill the precious metals in the lambda rendering it useless!!!
Omegatoy
I guess it depends on how early you caught the blown HG... I've known plenty to survive (on Rovers).. and also on an Omega 2.0.
I'd have also thought that it would have a fault code for the lambda area, rather than RPM related codes.
I do like your train of thought, and it's something I'll certainly keep in mind for future.
In this case though, I still think that the issue is a dodgey connection.
We've already sorted out the Gearbox limp mode problem by reseating the big blue plug, and I bet that the current EML issue is also a dodgey connection, most likely in that block connector!!!!!
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The reason I had to cut the wires was that the new Cam Sensor had a different connector block. At first I could not fit it as the colours on the cable were different but got around that by lifting the rubber sheave to alo me to connect the corect cable to the correct cable.
I did think that they have issued the wrong part but vauxhall say not. The thing that made me wonder was a) the different connector block & b) the new sensor is slightly taller than the old sensor. However I do also have a second hand sensor that was the same as the original that I was told did still work as it came off a runner!
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The reason I had to cut the wires was that the new Cam Sensor had a different connector block. At first I could not fit it as the colours on the cable were different but got around that by lifting the rubber sheave to alo me to connect the corect cable to the correct cable.
I did think that they have issued the wrong part but vauxhall say not. The thing that made me wonder was a) the different connector block & b) the new sensor is slightly taller than the old sensor. However I do also have a second hand sensor that was the same as the original that I was told did still work as it came off a runner!
There ARE indeed 2 x different types of cam sensor connector. This may be the problem, I don't know for 100% if the different types of sensors are interchangable....
VX Monkeys talking crap as usual....
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Well it looks like I have the wrong one then dont it. I bet they wont take it back either as ive cut the cables and thrown the packaging away and to be honest possibly the bill as well!!!!
Will have to try fitting the other one again and solder those wires and see what happens then!
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Well it looks like I have the wrong one then dont it. I bet they wont take it back either as ive cut the cables and thrown the packaging away and to be honest possibly the bill as well!!!!
Will have to try fitting the other one again and solder those wires and see what happens then!
Yep, fit a 100% known good cam sensor, and solder the wires properly, and we'll go from there. Smart money says this will cure it!
Why didn't you tell me about this cam sensor incompatibility at the start of the thread ;) :-/
I wouldn't have started talking about the crank sensor then ;D
Never mind... do as above, making sure the connections are really good, and it may well solve this one. As described above, you currently have an ECU rev limit applied at around 4k, which is often cam sensor related.
If that doesn't do any good, next step will be checking for consistency and / or shorts between the ECU connector and cam sensor plug to identify / eliminate and loom issues.
Don't worry, the answer will be a simple one, and we're all here to help :y
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Well thank you for your assistance James and I will let you know how I get on once I get another sensor and solder them. THink I will leave the Crank Sensor alone for the time being due to how arkward it is lol
Never thought about it not receiving a signal from the connector block. ::) :-[ ;D
Will prob be a couple of days now but hopefully not too long I WANT MY CAR BACK lol
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Well thank you for your assistance James and I will let you know how I get on once I get another sensor and solder them. THink I will leave the Crank Sensor alone for the time being due to how arkward it is lol
Never thought about it not receiving a signal from the connector block. ::) :-[ ;D
Will prob be a couple of days now but hopefully not too long I WANT MY CAR BACK lol
Good man :y
Please do post up the results, good or bad.
I'll PM you my phone number in a bit, you can give me a call when on the job, if you hit any snags.
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Ok news update.
Ive removed the incorrect supplied cam sensor(thanks vauxhall who wont let me return it) and fitted a sensor off a runner in the breakeryard. I trimmed the wired back twisted together, solded and covered them in heat shrink protector.
Started car and.............................................................................................................................
..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................No Difference.
Plus to top it off the autobox warning is back on the dash and she sounds like a pig!
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Ok news update.
Ive removed the incorrect supplied cam sensor(thanks vauxhall who wont let me return it) and fitted a sensor off a runner in the breakeryard. I trimmed the wired back twisted together, solded and covered them in heat shrink protector.
Started car and.............................................................................................................................
..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................No Difference.
Plus to top it off the autobox warning is back on the dash and she sounds like a pig!
Will it rev past 4/5000rpm now? Are all your spark plugs tight?
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Nope, revs are even worse now, really stuttery after 2500.
All plugs are nice and tight all leads securly fitted and all wiring connections made!
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Nope, revs are even worse now, really stuttery after 2500.
All plugs are nice and tight all leads securly fitted and all wiring connections made!
Do you think all the plugs are firing?
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Nope, revs are even worse now, really stuttery after 2500.
All plugs are nice and tight all leads securly fitted and all wiring connections made!
Do you think all the plugs are firing?
Whip them out, looking for black / wet / petrol smelling plugs
After my old 2.0 rebuild, it was only firing on 2.....
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Saying that when I removed the plugs from cylinder 1 & 2 they were both black.
Also Ive just been speaking with a mechanic I used to work with and he thinks that all this could be down to a faulty earth to the head!
He states that probably why the cam sensor is not getting a good connection!
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Have removed all four plugs and found them all to be black, not oily or covered in petrol but black carbon. By the way these are also new plugs to go with the new leads.
Have removed earth connection off the injector rail and cleaned it but couldnt see any more to check. Removed all multi plugs and refitted ensuring a good connection however still the same faults. Cam sensor and autobox.
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Have removed all four plugs and found them all to be black, not oily or covered in petrol but black carbon. By the way these are also new plugs to go with the new leads.
Have removed earth connection off the injector rail and cleaned it but couldnt see any more to check. Removed all multi plugs and refitted ensuring a good connection however still the same faults. Cam sensor and autobox.
all plugs black and dry? It can't be firing right...
I'd be interested to connect a timing strobe, and see if each plug lead has a spark...
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Unfortunatly I dont have one, but I have found the number of a local electrician, so Im going to give him a call today and see what he has to say and CHARGE lol
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Well next to final post. Have arranged to drive car in to garage tonight so hopefully will have better news to post next time.
Just got to wiggle the wires and see if I can ge the autobox light off again then crawl at 5mph to the garage on the other side of town lol
Will post to let you know what they found on completion.