Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: JamesV6CDX on 15 June 2007, 22:30:00
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I have a hunch my gearbox has died on the Elite >:(
I was driving on the M4 tonight. Giving it some welly, I kicked it down, it changed down, pulled, and all of a sudden the rev needle shot up to rev line, but no power was going to back wheels.
Then the gearbox dropped into limp mode, with Automatic gearbox on the MID.
I turned off and restarted the car on the hard shoulder... the box was not in limp mode. I put the car back into D, hit the gas, and it just revved (as if it was in neutral) and went nowhere. Once revved, it goes to limp mode. Doesn't work in any gear, inc reverse.
There were no nasty noises, no warning signs, no signs of ATF etc.
Gearbox? Torque Converter?
I did think Prop or Diff, but guess this is unlikely, as it holds the car when in Park.
Would really appreciate thoughts.
If I need to change the box, then I need to source and change it PRONTO.... (ideally tomorrow!!)
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Would really appreciate thoughts.
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I think I'd be looking for another gearbox :( It cost me the best part of a grand when I had next to no drive in my Senator. :'(
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It does sound like the gearbox :( You will need to find an autogearbox specailist near you to see if you can get one fitted tomorrow but very doubtful, I would imagine it would be done sometime next week if your lucky! :( Hope you get sorted soon.
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Would really appreciate thoughts.
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I think I'd be looking for another gearbox :( It cost me the best part of a grand when I had next to no drive in my Senator. :'(
I have NO Drive.
And all it will cost me is the Box... I can change it myself...
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It does sound like the gearbox :( You will need to find an autogearbox specailist near you to see if you can get one fitted tomorrow but very doubtful, I would imagine it would be done sometime next week if your lucky! :( Hope you get sorted soon.
Get it fitted?? Let some Monkey work on my car? >:(
I think not... I will be putting on some rubber gloves and getting out the Axle stands....
I just need a box!
Wonder how many more boxes I'll be changing ... ::)
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Well I'm delivering one to Jaime on Sunday morning..... ;D
Just a thought though. Just because the car holds in park does not rule out the torque convertor or the diff (although if diff went wheels could lock).
The park mechanism is more mechanical and has no bearing on the diff or tc.
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I really hate to say I told you so, but you was warned that an AR25 would be ripped to shreds by 3.0l engine. Serves you bloody well right ;D
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Really sorry to hear this. What a git!
I think if it was a diff you'd have heard a lot of protesting before it let go, and you wouldn't have braking in park as you point out.
It can only be something internal to the gearbox. :'(
Time to find an AR35 I guess.
Kevin
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I have NO Drive.
And all it will cost me is the Box... I can change it myself...
I thought that's what you'd be doing ... a 'new-to-you' gearbox to be fitted.
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I really hate to say I told you so, but you was warned that an AR25 would be ripped to shreds by 3.0l engine. Serves you bloody well right ;D
:'(
To be honest, I am not at all upset. Reason being, I never expected, or really wanted, the AR25 to last.
Reason for fitting the AR25, was to determine whether the gearbox was the problem causing the limp mode to keep occuring.
So - I see it that I've done what I wanted to achieve there.
Plus, I've now got the experience I need to change it without worrying.
Just need to determine for sure this is G/B...
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I really hate to say I told you so, but you was warned that an AR25 would be ripped to shreds by 3.0l engine.
Specifically, here http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1178968898/#8
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I really hate to say I told you so, but you was warned that an AR25 would be ripped to shreds by 3.0l engine.
Specifically, here http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1178968898/#8
Yes yes yes... not denying that. But I still maintain we were right, to fit the FREE AR25.
It proved there were no electrical problems, so now I'm happy to source an AR35!!
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I really hate to say I told you so, but you was warned that an AR25 would be ripped to shreds by 3.0l engine.
Specifically, here http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1178968898/#8
Yes yes yes... not denying that. But I still maintain we were right, to fit the FREE AR25.
It proved there were no electrical problems, so now I'm happy to source an AR35!!
Yes, but you should have been looking for one. Now your main transport has let you down.
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Just found this one on ebay?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VAUXHALL-OMEGA-AUTOMATIC-MANUAL-GEARBOXS-ALL-GOOD_W0QQitemZ200118247910QQihZ010QQcategoryZ10404QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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Now if anyone else was acting quite as smug as Jaime is right now, they would be in serious danger of the post count diminshing rather rapidly for being a smart a*se! ;D
Oh yes, James was right to try the AR25 at the time. It was the most cost effectiive means of problem solving at the time.
I am suprised it died quite so quickly though.... James, you been doing F1 launches from the traffic lights again?? ;)
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Now if anyone else was acting quite as smug as Jaime is right now, they would be in serious danger of the post count diminshing rather rapidly for being a smart a*se! ;D
I can talk, as I've screwed my AR25 ::)
Oh yes, James was right to try the AR25 at the time. It was the most cost effectiive means of problem solving at the time.
I am suprised it died quite so quickly though.... James, you been doing F1 launches from the traffic lights again?? ;)
The original post implies some element of hard driving, but even so, I suspected it would fail very quickly...
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alternative is buy a spares or repair 3.0 and swap the box and strip the rest of the car ( if you cant get a box pronto)
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Just found this one on ebay?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VAUXHALL-OMEGA-AUTOMATIC-MANUAL-GEARBOXS-ALL-GOOD_W0QQitemZ200118247910QQihZ010QQcategoryZ10404QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Hmmm if the guy knows so little about gearboxes for the Omega that he thinks there were 2 for the 3.0 :-? and that the AR25 will only fit the 2.5 ::) then I wouldn't be buying off him!
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Had he same thing happen years ago on an Mondeo.....no forward gears....forward clutch had burnt out....tho smell of burning atf fluid was present....reverse still worked tho.
Lease company decided to scrap the car than pay £1400 for a new box.....4 yo and about 85k miles :o
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Had he same thing happen years ago on an Mondeo.....no forward gears....forward clutch had burnt out....tho smell of burning atf fluid was present....reverse still worked tho.
Lease company decided to scrap the car than pay £1400 for a new box.....4 yo and about 85k miles :o
Can't say I blame them, I wouldn't spend £1,400 on a Mondeo.... ;)
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Had he same thing happen years ago on an Mondeo.....no forward gears....forward clutch had burnt out....tho smell of burning atf fluid was present....reverse still worked tho.
Lease company decided to scrap the car than pay £1400 for a new box.....4 yo and about 85k miles :o
Can't say I blame them, I wouldn't spend £1,400 on a Mondeo.... ;)
Neither would i ;) .....funny thing was 2 weeks earlier the lease company paid £440 for 4 new tyres ;D
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Ive worked it out James.....get another ar25.....it'll be fine :y
BUT chuck that nasty 3.0L away and fit a 4 pot :y ;D
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Now if anyone else was acting quite as smug as Jaime is right now, they would be in serious danger of the post count diminshing rather rapidly for being a smart a*se! ;D
Oh yes, James was right to try the AR25 at the time. It was the most cost effectiive means of problem solving at the time.
I am suprised it died quite so quickly though.... James, you been doing F1 launches from the traffic lights again?? ;)
It's OK... I've spent enough time with Jaime to appreciate his slightly smug sense of humour... :)
Yes, I agree, I should have an AR25 sat here waiting.
I also agree, that having now lost my only mode of transport, I am completely :-Xed.
If I can't get a box - may have to buy an eBay wreck to run about in tomorrow.
I am going to have to let some people down this weekend.
I am also getting a LOT of stick about the fact that I'm on the Forum on a friday night.
So I am now going to open a bottle of glenfiddich, and see how long it takes me to get to the bottom >:(
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Yes, I agree, I should have an AR25 sat here waiting.
No no no no no no no no no
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Yes, I agree, I should have an AR25 sat here waiting.
No no no no no no no no no
Whooops. Typo. Meant to be AR35.
Head is a bit mixed up :(
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Yes, I agree, I should have an AR25 sat here waiting.
No no no no no no no no no
Whooops. Typo. Meant to be AR35.
Head is a bit mixed up :(
:y
Get your head straight before buying a box, or we may be having the same thread again next month ;D
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How about this AR35?
It's from the Same guy I bought the leather seats off in Nottingham
Ideally could do with someone in the area to grab it for me though ::)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vauxhall-Omega-MV6-3-0-V6-Auto-Gearbox-Only-84K-Miles_W0QQitemZ330134618355QQihZ014QQcategoryZ10404QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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what was wrong with your previous gearbox?
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His previous gearbox had an electronic problem, most likely an internal solenoid that meant it ceased working properly. :(
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Now if anyone else was acting quite as smug as Jaime is right now, they would be in serious danger of the post count diminshing rather rapidly for being a smart a*se! ;D
Oh yes, James was right to try the AR25 at the time. It was the most cost effectiive means of problem solving at the time.
I am suprised it died quite so quickly though.... James, you been doing F1 launches from the traffic lights again?? ;)
Hmmmmm.......I wont mention that I was in agreement with Jaime then :-X
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changing the solenoids is easy.
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We speculated (after many hours of serious investigation, mostly by Marks DTM) that the only thing remaining was the internal solenoids. That as we are not an autobox speacialists ;D, was the point at which we said change the box.
Oh and the thrust bearing in more than one piece at the bottom of the sump was a bit of a sign of a broken box! ::)
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that thrust washer you refer to is between the oil pump and 4th gear overdrive. what happens is that the gearbox overheats,melts the thrust washer which then lets the overdrive section of the internals float about, which then chews up the oil pump which then makes the whole thing worse.finally the gearbox slips BADLY!!.as a side note there are only 5 solenoids in the entire box all easily accessible when you remove the sumps
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that thrust washer you refer to is between the oil pump and 4th gear overdrive. what happens is that the gearbox overheats,melts the thrust washer which then lets the overdrive section of the internals float about, which then chews up the oil pump which then makes the whole thing worse.finally the gearbox slips BADLY!!.as a side note there are only 5 solenoids in the entire box all easily accessible when you remove the sumps
Hmmm, wonder if thats worth a try James, removing solenoids from busted ar25 and putting in ar35. That bit would be a zero cost fix? Persumably they just bolt in? Not sure how hard the thrust washer will be though :-/
If you have the time, could be a very satisfying fix, though I suspect time is against you.
Failing that, must be an old 3.0l elite on fleabay thats pasts its best, to strip, even make money on?
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that thrust washer you refer to is between the oil pump and 4th gear overdrive. what happens is that the gearbox overheats,melts the thrust washer which then lets the overdrive section of the internals float about, which then chews up the oil pump which then makes the whole thing worse.finally the gearbox slips BADLY!!.as a side note there are only 5 solenoids in the entire box all easily accessible when you remove the sumps
Hmmm, wonder if thats worth a try James, removing solenoids from busted ar25 and putting in ar35. That bit would be a zero cost fix? Persumably they just bolt in? Not sure how hard the thrust washer will be though :-/
If you have the time, could be a very satisfying fix, though I suspect time is against you.
Failing that, must be an old 3.0l elite on fleabay thats pasts its best, to strip, even make money on?
Jaime - I would have done your idea of soleniod swap (easy peasy to do) - but it's not worth it, because of the broken thrust washer in my AR35. That's why I changed the box and not soleniods in the first place.
Steve - I too am was agreement with Jaime! As said before, AR25 wasn't intended to last, it was just the only cost effective way of isolating/proving an electrical issue. I knew all along I need an AR35.
Moving forwards, Seems I've located a good AR35 from an MV6, in Nottingham. My good friend Dave has offered to pick it up, and bring it down to me at a convenient time - now that really is a mate.
Just striking a deal, need to confirm it's DEF gearbox, and an AR35 should be en-route!
:)
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that thrust washer you refer to is between the oil pump and 4th gear overdrive. what happens is that the gearbox overheats,melts the thrust washer which then lets the overdrive section of the internals float about, which then chews up the oil pump which then makes the whole thing worse.finally the gearbox slips BADLY!!.as a side note there are only 5 solenoids in the entire box all easily accessible when you remove the sumps
Hmmm, wonder if thats worth a try James, removing solenoids from busted ar25 and putting in ar35. That bit would be a zero cost fix? Persumably they just bolt in? Not sure how hard the thrust washer will be though :-/
If you have the time, could be a very satisfying fix, though I suspect time is against you.
Failing that, must be an old 3.0l elite on fleabay thats pasts its best, to strip, even make money on?
Jaime - I would have done your idea of soleniod swap (easy peasy to do) - but it's not worth it, because of the broken thrust washer in my AR35. That's why I changed the box and not soleniods in the first place.
Steve - I too am was agreement with Jaime! As said before, AR25 wasn't intended to last, it was just the only cost effective way of isolating/proving an electrical issue. I knew all along I need an AR35.
Moving forwards, Seems I've located a good AR35 from an MV6, in Nottingham. My good friend Dave has offered to pick it up, and bring it down to me at a convenient time - now that really is a mate.
Just striking a deal, need to confirm it's DEF gearbox, and an AR35 should be en-route!
:)
Does Park work? If so, the prop/diff/driveshafts all OK.
Presumably, we'd know if engine/crank had failed!
So, TC or box. Now, bearing in mind we knew the box couldn't take it anyway, and you were booting it.....
Whatever, you need an AR35 on there, so you need to get one anyway.
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would you care to part with your old ar35?
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would you care to part with your old ar35?
Sorry Mate, it's already got MR DTM's name on it, when I can get to Notts...
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that thrust washer you refer to is between the oil pump and 4th gear overdrive. what happens is that the gearbox overheats,melts the thrust washer which then lets the overdrive section of the internals float about, which then chews up the oil pump which then makes the whole thing worse.finally the gearbox slips BADLY!!.as a side note there are only 5 solenoids in the entire box all easily accessible when you remove the sumps
Hmmm, wonder if thats worth a try James, removing solenoids from busted ar25 and putting in ar35. That bit would be a zero cost fix? Persumably they just bolt in? Not sure how hard the thrust washer will be though :-/
If you have the time, could be a very satisfying fix, though I suspect time is against you.
Failing that, must be an old 3.0l elite on fleabay thats pasts its best, to strip, even make money on?
Jaime - I would have done your idea of soleniod swap (easy peasy to do) - but it's not worth it, because of the broken thrust washer in my AR35. That's why I changed the box and not soleniods in the first place.
Steve - I too am was agreement with Jaime! As said before, AR25 wasn't intended to last, it was just the only cost effective way of isolating/proving an electrical issue. I knew all along I need an AR35.
Moving forwards, Seems I've located a good AR35 from an MV6, in Nottingham. My good friend Dave has offered to pick it up, and bring it down to me at a convenient time - now that really is a mate.
Just striking a deal, need to confirm it's DEF gearbox, and an AR35 should be en-route!
:)
Does Park work? If so, the prop/diff/driveshafts all OK.
Presumably, we'd know if engine/crank had failed!
So, TC or box. Now, bearing in mind we knew the box couldn't take it anyway, and you were booting it.....
Whatever, you need an AR35 on there, so you need to get one anyway.
Aye... as per start of this thread, Park works fine, so don't suspect Prop or Dif. Engine runs, so can't be crank!!
AR35 being sourced...
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Any odd noises from the box?
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Any odd noises from the box?
None at all
I have just been seriously messed about by a Winker on ebay about the box, I'm spitting fire [smiley=angry.gif]
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Working on trying to find another one now....
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Working on trying to find another one now....
You are a very good friend, Dave :)
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when your original box failed which came first, the thrust washer failure or the solenoid problem?
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when your original box failed which came first, the thrust washer failure or the solenoid problem?
We don't know...
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Just tried Omegatoy for AR35, awaiting response (he has no internet connection for a while due to house move)
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Just tried Omegatoy for AR35, awaiting response (he has no internet connection for a while due to house move)
Dave has an idea... but it would need your buy in.
I'm not even comfortable asking.. you may want to discuss with him ::) ::)
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Just tried Omegatoy for AR35, awaiting response (he has no internet connection for a while due to house move)
Dave has an idea... but it would need your buy in.
I'm not even comfortable asking.. you may want to discuss with him ::) ::)
PM replied to :)
Decisions ::)
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it is almost impossible for two items on the same piece of equipment to fail at exactly the same time,therefore i would suggest that the thrust washer failed first the hydraulics of the box cannot control 3mm of slop when there should be .2mm.when i purchased recently a sonnax thrust washer kit i had in the packet 2 thrust washers,so im am saying to you is there any way you can get your butt to trowbridge with said gearbox(the pump will reouire m/c)and i will replace said washer in approx 1 1/2 hours.there is a catch however i need something doing as well i have got a 3 litre omega sat here that will not start,savvi
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Any odd noises from the box?
None at all
I have just been seriously messed about by a Winker on ebay about the box, I'm spitting fire [smiley=angry.gif]
no noise - so I wonder what went - it will be intersting to find out ::) :-?
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Any odd noises from the box?
None at all
I have just been seriously messed about by a Winker on ebay about the box, I'm spitting fire [smiley=angry.gif]
no noise - so I wonder what went - it will be intersting to find out ::) :-?
It'll be one of the bands or associated clutches - the AR25 simply cannot handle a bootful of 3.0l power...
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It can, but the AR35 copes better.
Gearbox sourced, fetched, dumped in Laidbacks boot and on its way in the morning. Jaime, yours is in there too.
Call me WHEN you get stuck, especially wioth converting the AR25 bellhousing over. MAKE SURE EVERYTHING IS VERY CLEAN WHEN YOU SPLIT THE BELLHOUSING OFF. Do NOT get grit, dirt or laidbacks inside that box!
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It can, but the AR35 copes better.
Gearbox sourced, fetched, dumped in Laidbacks boot and on its way in the morning. Jaime, yours is in there too.
Call me WHEN you get stuck, especially wioth converting the AR25 bellhousing over. MAKE SURE EVERYTHING IS VERY CLEAN WHEN YOU SPLIT THE BELLHOUSING OFF. Do NOT get grit, dirt or laidbacks inside that box!
Cheeky beggar! ;D
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OK, it 5.37am on a Sunday morning and I am up! [smiley=huh.gif]
There had better be bacon sarnies and strong tea (1 sugar) when I arrive!
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Any news yet?
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it is almost impossible for two items on the same piece of equipment to fail at exactly the same time,therefore i would suggest that the thrust washer failed first the hydraulics of the box cannot control 3mm of slop when there should be .2mm.when i purchased recently a sonnax thrust washer kit i had in the packet 2 thrust washers,so im am saying to you is there any way you can get your butt to trowbridge with said gearbox(the pump will reouire m/c)and i will replace said washer in approx 1 1/2 hours.there is a catch however i need something doing as well i have got a 3 litre omega sat here that will not start,savvi
I have intermittent problems with my autobox, you sound like you them alot better than I do and you are less than an hour away from me!
Symptomns - Occasionally slips (esp around 30mph and almost always when booting it and then leveling at 30mph) if I leave it I get a thump and then the limp home mode. If I change down to 3 when it slips and take off the throttle I get a smaller thump and I can change back upto D without consequence.
I changed the ATF and cleaned the filter a few months ago found 2 quarters of the dredded thrust washer in the intermittent sump. I am looking for a new box but if you have any ideas I could have a look at your 3.0. I know much more about engines than gearboxes, savvy? ;)
Alternatively pop down to the Tidworth cam belt/ autobox party at the end of the month - your expertese would be appreciated :D
Gaffers
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Interestingly, you can get an uprated washer from the US to give a long term fix to this problem.
Apparantly its due to the nylon one overheating, details here:
http://www.oregonperformancetransmission.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=OPTI&Product_Code=SNX+54701-03K&Category_Code=BMW
I realy need to disect one of these failed units.
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When I get a replacement for mine and I am satisfied it is working I will be having a go too.
I feel confident having a go at just about any job but gearboxes so I would like to learn.
Anyone have any publications which would help? The book of lies ducked out of this one ::)
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4L30E manuals are easy to get off the web...
Also a certain Vx tech tool has the details as well
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james
before you think gearbox it may well be the pump that as died in the torque convertor your symptoms are exactly what happened on a scorpio i had
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James
Disregard my last post you def know more than me
sounds like you got it sussed
Robert
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sonnax thrust washer available of the shelf at www.automaticchoice.co.uk tel no 01761 436688 £28+vat for two. i tried jpat but they only list them, not keep them.
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Right, it took far, far longer than it should have, but we have both cars running again, albeit both with AR25 :o.
Thanks to all involved :y
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Right, it took far, far longer than it should have, but we have both cars running again, albeit both with AR25 :o.
Thanks to all involved :y
At least they are done :y
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Right, it took far, far longer than it should have, but we have both cars running again, albeit both with AR25 :o.
Thanks to all involved :y
At least they are done :y
Absolutely :y
We knew one was a ar25, but didn't find out about other until we went to fit, but thats life....
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Right, it took far, far longer than it should have, but we have both cars running again, albeit both with AR25 :o.
Thanks to all involved :y
At least they are done :y
Absolutely :y
We knew one was a ar25, but didn't find out about other until we went to fit, but thats life....
Good to hear you both sorted... Newbie silly question but how do you tell the difference Ar25/35?
(Other than one goes bang if you boot it...
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Right, it took far, far longer than it should have, but we have both cars running again, albeit both with AR25 :o.
Thanks to all involved :y
At least they are done :y
Absolutely :y
We knew one was a ar25, but didn't find out about other until we went to fit, but thats life....
Good to hear you both sorted... Newbie silly question but how do you tell the difference Ar25/35?
(Other than one goes bang if you boot it...
Plate on side of box (passenger side).
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check the diff i had the same thing go wrong with mine just rolled to a stop i had the axle removed at garage for inspectors to view when took cover off diff, parts of the kogs fell out eeek! my car was an R Reg CD 2,5 AUTO Hope this helps
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check the diff i had the same thing go wrong with mine just rolled to a stop i had the axle removed at garage for inspectors to view when took cover off diff, parts of the kogs fell out eeek! my car was an R Reg CD 2,5 AUTO Hope this helps
both mine and JV6CDX were failed gearboxes.