Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Ronald_McBurger on 03 June 2007, 20:44:02
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This, for those who have been following, is my 1999 Facelift 2.5 Elite LPG project car.
Having rebuilt the top end AGAIN this morning, I was delighted to find the tappets are only noisy now on tickover >:(. After a chat with various members including laidback (who has taken it for a run) and Mark, we have concurred that the most likely suspect is the oil pump. OH GOOD!
Now, for those who may not realise, the oil pump on the Omega is about the worst job to do. In fact it is so terrible, I would rather change the whole engine. Which is what I am now planning to do. I will remove everything useful from this one, inlcuding the cambelt kit, water pump, DIS pack, Aircon compressor, both manifolds, all leads, the plenum, both rocker covers and all 24 hydraulic tappets.
I will then drop in another 2.5 v6 and at the same time, I may as well change this gearbox after todays little antics. It didn't behave itself very well.
Engine change on this? Well, about 3 hours to get the engine out and another 4 to get the new one in and running properly. before installing, I will change both manifold gaskets, the oil cooler, the full cambelt kit and water pump. Also both rocker gaskets. Then drop the donor engine in and connect up the loom, both exhausts and all the plumbing. That means taking BOTH radiators out, so a regas is on the cards too.
BIG job in anyones books, but not beyond me. However, I happen to have a mate around the corner who will have exactly the engine and box I want. Yes, I will have to pay him, but heck that is easier!
Once done I will obviously have to update the V5, but that is easy enough. Sale price will go up a bit too. Now aiming for £3,500 when finished with a new Mot, 5 months tax left and LPG certified.
One monster project this in the end, but fun all the same.
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Fin, I have a 2.5 Omega Engine mate, wouldn't be hard to get out either, because I've already removed the Box in that car. Had a coolant leak, but ran beautifully. 120k. You changed the cambelt on it yourself.
The concern isn't how much I'd want for it (peanuts) - but how I'd get it out now I dont' have access to a crane, and how I'd get it to Nots.
Also, I don't need to tell you, I'm more than happy to come up and lend some muscle and gadget hands to help you do the change :)
You've got my details :y
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This, for those who have been following, is my 1999 Facelift 2.5 Elite LPG project car.
Having rebuilt the top end AGAIN this morning, I was delighted to find the tappets are only noisy now on tickover >:(. After a chat with various members including laidback (who has taken it for a run) and Mark, we have concurred that the most likely suspect is the oil pump. OH GOOD!
Now, for those who may not realise, the oil pump on the Omega is about the worst job to do. In fact it is so terrible, I would rather change the whole engine. Which is what I am now planning to do. I will remove everything useful from this one, inlcuding the cambelt kit, water pump, DIS pack, Aircon compressor, both manifolds, all leads, the plenum, both rocker covers and all 24 hydraulic tappets.
I will then drop in another 2.5 v6 and at the same time, I may as well change this gearbox after todays little antics. It didn't behave itself very well.
Engine change on this? Well, about 3 hours to get the engine out and another 4 to get the new one in and running properly. before installing, I will change both manifold gaskets, the oil cooler, the full cambelt kit and water pump. Also both rocker gaskets. Then drop the donor engine in and connect up the loom, both exhausts and all the plumbing. That means taking BOTH radiators out, so a regas is on the cards too.
BIG job in anyones books, but not beyond me. However, I happen to have a mate around the corner who will have exactly the engine and box I want. Yes, I will have to pay him, but heck that is easier!
Once done I will obviously have to update the V5, but that is easy enough. Sale price will go up a bit too. Now aiming for £3,500 when finished with a new Mot, 5 months tax left and LPG certified.
One monster project this in the end, but fun all the same.
Are you ABSOLUTELY sure its the oil pump Fin?
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Surely it's worth trying some serious engine oil flush first.
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I can't think what else it could be Steve.
Sounds like the oil pump is tired, EG not enough pressure at tickover, hence the tapping, but at higher revs, more pressure, so less noise.
Fin, any oil light coming on?
Sometime's it's easier just to hoist a known good lump in there, it can save hours of aggro finding an awkward fault.
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A mammoth project indeed...lots of pics please Ronnie - and good luck :y
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I can't think what else it could be Steve.
Sounds like the oil pump is tired, EG not enough pressure at tickover, hence the tapping, but at higher revs, more pressure, so less noise.
Fin, any oil light coming on?
Sometime's it's easier just to hoist a known good lump in there, it can save hours of aggro finding an awkward fault.
I think an engine change devalues a car :-/ I'm always wary when I read that
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A mammoth project indeed...lots of pics please Ronnie - and good luck :y
Wouldn't go as far as mammoth
None of it's mega hard, it's just time consuming....
Saying that, I'd like to get involved with this one :)
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Ohhh boy.... an engine transplant! ::)
While I can understand your reasoning (I suspect Mark will be of a different opinion! ;D) I think the 7 hrs all in estimate will be "hopeful"...
Ah well, will be an interesting job! :)
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A mammoth project indeed...lots of pics please Ronnie - and good luck :y
Wouldn't go as far as mammoth
None of it's mega hard, it's just time consuming....
Saying that, I'd like to get involved with this one :)
Suspend engine from beam spanning the front wing gutters.
Unbolt steering idler and split ball joint on rhs
Drop front subframe around 4 "
Remove lower sump and upper sump
bagpipes out, alternator off
Cambelt off, camshaft pulleys off, backplate off
Undo crankshaft pulley bolt (need 3 - 4 foot bar!!)
Depressurise a/c, remove a/c compressor
Unbolt aux support bracket
unbolt oil pump.
Hmm, I just spent a 12 hour day getting to the point where you would unbolt the compressor, I vote for an engine transplant, its quicker and much easier, BUT it would have to be a known good engine, you wouldnt want to start fixing oil leaks etc after fitting it.
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Hmmm if you vote for an engine transplant Pete, I am most certainly not going to argue! ;)
12hrs to get to that point! bl**dy hell! :o
You sure you don't want to do a transplant too?
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Hmmm if you vote for an engine transplant Pete, I am most certainly not going to argue! ;)
12hrs to get to that point! bl**dy hell! :o
You sure you don't want to do a transplant too?
This was on my CDX estate which was losing a litre of oil in 50 miles :o :o
Bad leak from upper oil pan to block joint plus leaking front crankshaft oil seal. Didnt help that one of the subframe captive nuts decided to escape captivity when I was trying to put it all back together.
Will write a crank seal maintainance guide but its not for the faint hearted.
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Hmmm if you vote for an engine transplant Pete, I am most certainly not going to argue! ;)
12hrs to get to that point! bl**dy hell! :o
You sure you don't want to do a transplant too?
This was on my CDX estate which was losing a litre of oil in 50 miles :o :o
Bad leak from upper oil pan to block joint plus leaking front crankshaft oil seal. Didnt help that one of the subframe captive nuts decided to escape captivity when I was trying to put it all back together.
Will write a crank seal maintainance guide but its not for the faint hearted.
Something I'd like to have a stab at, at some point.....
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<Suck Eggs mode>
I'm sure you'll have satisfied yourself that it needs to come out by now but just in case have you carried out the following checks? ...
Put an oil pressure gauge on it and verified that the pressure is low at idle?
Had a look at the pressure relief valve to ensure it's not stuck open?
There's also a "safety valve" shown in the oil pump diagrams. Not sure what this does but it looks like another relief valve. I'm not sure if you can get at these valves without removing the pump, but I'd imagine you can.
</Suck Eggs mode>
In the long run, if it's had low oil pressure problems it's probably best to replace the whole lump, however. Who knows what damage the low pressure could have done to the bearings?
Kevin
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Yep. This is a definte engine change as far as I am concerned. Everything checked that can be. Raise the revs and tappets settle. Low oil pressure is the only possibility. Safety valve cannot be accessed without removing a LOT. oil pressure relief valev already checked as was lower sump and strainer. All oil ways are open. just low pressure.
Laidback confirmed after a good run of moe than 50 miles today that the engine is low on power as suspected by me on my drive. So engine change it is.
If I have the place to do this and an engine plus crane, give me 4 hours and I'll do it. Changing one of these is NOT hard. These engines are relatively small compared to something like a Rover SD1 2.6 straight 6 or Rover V8, both of which I have done in the past.. Also much lighter.
Realistically, I am opting for the mate with thespace, crane, engine and tools.
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I dont know what its like on a V6 but on my 4 Pot it was 500 quid to change the oil pump and other bits like pressure valve sump plug and so forth. My oil pump went major style and to say it was tappity is an under statment lol more like a tank running.
you could go for a major flush as if your going to change the engine you have nothing to lose. I have heard you can stick some dev in with thin thin oil and flush the whole system out but i have also heard it can some times cause more problems.
Good Luck if you go the engine change Ronny
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OK. Engine acquired locally from my favourite supplier.
Target is to change this engine this Saturday afternoon. I have just watched as one was removed. It took 1 hour! Putting back is a bit longer, but we are talking 2 hours not 12.
Total time allocated is 5 hours. That includes splitting the box off and mating it up again.
Normally I wouoldn't bother, but this will be the first engine change I have done for 18 years. Kind of looking forward to it really. Old engine will be canabalised as much as I need WITHOUT MAKING A MESS and then scrapped. So, I will have a spare EGR valve, aircon compressor (that makes 3 I have), alternator, rocker covers, DIS pack (Dave still owes me one), and all the other little bits from the engine like the hydraulic tappets and cams. I will reuse the cambelt kit from the old engine again as it is brand new. Also the water punmp. I will change both manifold gaskets whilst the engine is off the car too.
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OK. Engine acquired locally from my favourite supplier.
Target is to change this engine this Saturday afternoon. I have just watched as one was removed. It took 1 hour! Putting back is a bit longer, but we are talking 2 hours not 12.
Total time allocated is 5 hours. That includes splitting the box off and mating it up again.
Normally I wouoldn't bother, but this will be the first engine change I have done for 18 years. Kind of looking forward to it really. Old engine will be canabalised as much as I need WITHOUT MAKING A MESS and then scrapped. So, I will have a spare EGR valve, aircon compressor (that makes 3 I have), alternator, rocker covers, DIS pack (Dave still owes me one), and all the other little bits from the engine like the hydraulic tappets and cams. I will reuse the cambelt kit from the old engine again as it is brand new. Also the water punmp. I will change both manifold gaskets whilst the engine is off the car too.
Very much looking forward to the results here
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Very much looking forward to the results here
I am too - lots to be learned from it for me :)
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Very much looking forward to the results here
I am too - lots to be learned from it for me :)
I've done this on a 2.0 Omega, never a V6....
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Very much looking forward to the results here
I am too - lots to be learned from it for me :)
I've done this on a 2.0 Omega, never a V6....
And ive removed a v6 but never had to refit it. So its a win win situation all round ;D
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The v6 is apparently much easier. I have been reliably informed by a guy who has done LOTS of both.
When you think about it logically, there isn't much to it. Here goes:
1. unplug the two purple plugs in the relay box.
2. Unplug the 3 multiplug connectors by the relay box
3. Unplug the ECU.
4. Sling the whole loom on top of the engine
5. Get underneath. Support gearbox on jack and unplug all 4 autobox connectors plus the sector linkage. Undo all bolts from the gearbox to bell housing.
6. Still underneath, undo the two engine mounting lower nuts
7. Undo both manifiold to downpipe joints
8. Remove bagpipes
9. Disconnect radiator top and bottom hoses.
10 (optional) remove radiators
11. Disconnect aircon to compressor connectors
12. Unplug HBV to bulkhead
13. Unplug vacuum pipes
14. Undo the PAS pump pipes
15. Attatch crane and lift engine, then pull fortward to split bellhousing
16. Carefully remove engine
17. Refitting is not quite as simple as that, but virtually.
I will most likely just remove the gearbox and TC to give more access space
Not quite as bad as it seemed really. :)
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The v6 is apparently much easier. I have been reliably informed by a guy who has done LOTS of both.
When you think about it logically, there isn't much to it. Here goes:
1. unplug the two purple plugs in the relay box.
2. Unplug the 3 multiplug connectors by the relay box
3. Unplug the ECU.
4. Sling the whole loom on top of the engine
5. Get underneath. Support gearbox on jack and unplug all 4 autobox connectors plus the sector linkage. Undo all bolts from the gearbox to bell housing.
6. Still underneath, undo the two engine mounting lower nuts
7. Undo both manifiold to downpipe joints
8. Remove bagpipes
9. Disconnect radiator top and bottom hoses.
10 (optional) remove radiators
11. Disconnect aircon to compressor connectors
12. Unplug HBV to bulkhead
13. Unplug vacuum pipes
14. Undo the PAS pump pipes
15. Attatch crane and lift engine, then pull fortward to split bellhousing
16. Carefully remove engine
17. Refitting is not quite as simple as that, but virtually.
I will most likely just remove the gearbox and TC to give more access space
Not quite as bad as it seemed really. :)
It may be easier to remove the 6 bolts holding the Torque converter to the drive plate through the access hatch while underneith, leaving the TC in the gearbox, this will mean you won't have to bring the engine anywhere near as far forwards for removal...
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If I have the place to do this and an engine plus crane, give me 4 hours and I'll do it. Changing one of these is NOT hard. These engines are relatively small compared to something like a Rover SD1 2.6 straight 6 or Rover V8, both of which I have done in the past.. Also much lighter.
Remove SD1 2.6 and fit V8?
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1st phase done. Well this won't run again without an engine change!
I did forget one tiny miniscule fact to take into account..... the sodding LPG wiring! It has been wired in by a very young child, wearing boxing gloves and using a blowtorch - well by the looks of things it has. So, I have just been making a schematic for it.
Anyway, both radiators out, aircon removed, bagfpies obviously out, hoses off including the B@satrd pipe one, HBV disconnected from bulkhead and LPG, in fact all that remains is to drain the PAS reservoir with a syphon and then discoonect the pipes from the pump, then splite the box off and out it comes.
SD1 and v8 were both engines out and back in. The V8 one came from another SD1 and went into a range rover.
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OK. Engine acquired locally from my favourite supplier.
Target is to change this engine this Saturday afternoon. I have just watched as one was removed. It took 1 hour! Putting back is a bit longer, but we are talking 2 hours not 12.
Total time allocated is 5 hours. That includes splitting the box off and mating it up again.
Normally I wouoldn't bother, but this will be the first engine change I have done for 18 years. Kind of looking forward to it really. Old engine will be canabalised as much as I need WITHOUT MAKING A MESS and then scrapped. So, I will have a spare EGR valve, aircon compressor (that makes 3 I have), alternator, rocker covers, DIS pack (Dave still owes me one), and all the other little bits from the engine like the hydraulic tappets and cams. I will reuse the cambelt kit from the old engine again as it is brand new. Also the water punmp. I will change both manifold gaskets whilst the engine is off the car too.
Hmm I may be on the scrounge for a few bits mate... ;D
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Remember that you need a 98 or later power plant.....an earlier one will create more problems
Remember also to disconnect the O2 sensors and pop the cruise module out for a bit more clearance on the drivers side.
Its worth doing all the odd jobs like cambelt etc before re-fitting......and maybe exhaust manifold gaskets to.
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Yep, fully intend to do both manifold gaskets and if needed both rocker covers before putting in. cambelt and water pump I will do when in. Cruise can stay put, not in the way. Worst bit is having to strip the ebtire loom of the old engine and gfit it to the replacement, because the amount of extra wiring because of the LPG makes that the easiest option.
Condensor is fine.. New oil cooler fitted recently will be coming off. So will anything else I can store. If you want the lump for a play, come and get it.
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Just an update. Engine purchased, old engine almost ready to take out and now engine crane purchased tonight for the lovelyt sum of £89.50 on ebay for a £293 crane - BRAND NEW! ;)
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And it is a post 98 engine........
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No, it is a 1998 R reg donor.
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In which case dont fit the followers from the other engine, you will need to clean the ones from the second hand engine if your going to that level fo work........and as you know the cambelt layout might be different with a different tensioner back plate (its on the change over at that age).
I guess its metal oil filter and not cartridge.
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Will write a crank seal maintainance guide but its not for the faint hearted.
Comments like this are really scaring me at the mo :(
What part of the Crank seal change is not for the faint hearted?
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Old engine will be canabalised as much as I need WITHOUT MAKING A MESS and then scrapped. So, I will have a spare EGR valve, aircon compressor (that makes 3 I have), alternator, rocker covers, DIS pack (Dave still owes me one), and all the other little bits from the engine like the hydraulic tappets and cams. I will reuse the cambelt kit from the old engine again as it is brand new. Also the water punmp. I will change both manifold gaskets whilst the engine is off the car too.
Will the rear mult-ram actuator be going spare? I just need the electrical part to replace a broken one on mine -- it's a solenoid with a two pin connector on one end and the vacuum connection on the other end, held on by two torx bolts IIRC.
Cheers.
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Probably got one of those anyway paul. PM me details and I'll sling it over.