Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Martin_1962 on 04 September 2007, 18:51:29

Title: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: Martin_1962 on 04 September 2007, 18:51:29
Not sure if I need them or not - what are the symptoms?
Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: VX1 on 04 September 2007, 18:54:19
Knocking when going over bump's, moving to the left on its own accord, wheel wobble uneven tyre wear.
Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: Markie on 04 September 2007, 19:02:19
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Not sure if I need them or not - what are the symptoms?


what are your symptoms? and not an overly difficult job to do.
Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: Martin_1962 on 04 September 2007, 19:08:03
Tyres scrubbing on inside and not sure on play on front of wishbone when I levered it.

Also feels wandery
Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: VX1 on 04 September 2007, 19:15:26
wishbones need replacing. Whilst you are there you will need to replace the anti roll bar drop links as well as when you undo them they will knock if you refit them plus you might end up knackering them anyway.
Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: Martin_1962 on 05 September 2007, 08:04:26
The front bush - I can move the wishbone about 3 or 4mm at the front with a moderate amount of effort
Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: Auto Addict on 05 September 2007, 08:27:55
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The front bush - I can move the wishbone about 3 or 4mm at the front with a moderate amount of effort

If you need a hand, give me a shout.
Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: TheBoy on 05 September 2007, 09:11:24
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The front bush - I can move the wishbone about 3 or 4mm at the front with a moderate amount of effort
Using a lever, or by grabbing wheel?
Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: Martin_1962 on 05 September 2007, 09:12:33
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The front bush - I can move the wishbone about 3 or 4mm at the front with a moderate amount of effort

If you need a hand, give me a shout.

Thanks for the offer :y - not sure yet but it seems like it - just wondering how much slop there should be, it may be gone, it may not and at £90 a pair I don't to change unless necessary.

Especially as I need a tyre :'( at about £125 matching the other front :(
Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: Martin_1962 on 05 September 2007, 09:13:37
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The front bush - I can move the wishbone about 3 or 4mm at the front with a moderate amount of effort
Using a lever, or by grabbing wheel?

A lever - actually my long socket bar.

And not that hard :o
Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: TheBoy on 05 September 2007, 09:33:58
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The front bush - I can move the wishbone about 3 or 4mm at the front with a moderate amount of effort
Using a lever, or by grabbing wheel?

A lever - actually my long socket bar.

And not that hard :o
Possibly OK, depending on your strength  :-/
Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: Martin_1962 on 05 September 2007, 09:54:20
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The front bush - I can move the wishbone about 3 or 4mm at the front with a moderate amount of effort
Using a lever, or by grabbing wheel?

A lever - actually my long socket bar.

And not that hard :o
Possibly OK, depending on your strength  :-/

So what is a good test?

Just getting a little worried about them!
Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: TheBoy on 05 September 2007, 10:01:51
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Tyres scrubbing on inside and not sure on play on front of wishbone when I levered it.

Also feels wandery
scrubbing inside shoulder is normally camber. Sounds like alignment needed.
Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: ians on 05 September 2007, 10:06:54
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Tyres scrubbing on inside and not sure on play on front of wishbone when I levered it.

Also feels wandery
scrubbing inside shoulder is normally camber. Sounds like alignment needed.


.. would also explain the wandering maybe.

but you don't want to get geometry done if you then go and change wishbones.   Probably worth taking it to a reputable geometry place to give you a verdict on the wishbones before doing the setup?
Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: Martin_1962 on 05 September 2007, 10:31:14
Not sure on any reputable places but I may ask a local mechanic his advise as he used to be an MOT tester.
Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: Martin_1962 on 05 September 2007, 13:54:48
I've been told jack it up and wobble wheel - what is the acceptable amout of wobble?
Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: TheBoy on 05 September 2007, 14:25:47
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I've been told jack it up and wobble wheel - what is the acceptable amout of wobble?
virtually zero.
Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: Martin_1962 on 05 September 2007, 19:04:42
No wobble found but the front bush seems very pliable

doesn't appear to have any left right support, just up down.

(http://martinimber.omegaowners.com/lhs.JPG)

See the gap on the right of the picture?

That appears unsupported

both sides are the same - you can lever in out but not up down
Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: Markie on 05 September 2007, 19:14:58
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I've been told jack it up and wobble wheel - what is the acceptable amout of wobble?
virtually zero.


I can never remember is it 12 - 6 or 3 - 9 wobble?

Either way it should be pretty solid whilst off ground..
Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: TheBoy on 05 September 2007, 19:21:13
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I've been told jack it up and wobble wheel - what is the acceptable amout of wobble?
virtually zero.


I can never remember is it 12 - 6 or 3 - 9 wobble?

Either way it should be pretty solid whilst off ground..
Worn wishbone bushes given 3/9 wobble.


Martin, do you have 3/9 wobble when jacked up and trying from the wheel?
Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: Martin_1962 on 05 September 2007, 19:27:07
Can't see any - managed to turn the other wheel a bit though - until it locked.

I will check again tomorrow night, just unsure.

Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: Martin_1962 on 05 September 2007, 19:28:30
I think it is me just expecting them to go. Plus the fronts wore not quite right so getting over cautious
Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: TheBoy on 05 September 2007, 19:43:16
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I think it is me just expecting them to go. Plus the fronts wore not quite right so getting over cautious
as said, shoulder wear = camber wrong
Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: Martin_1962 on 05 September 2007, 19:53:18
I'll see who is good in the area WIM a little too far
Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: Chopsdad on 05 September 2007, 22:56:36
£55 a pair delivered from Buypartsby.co.uk.  Drop links are about a tenner each but don't affect wheel geometry so can be done later if needed.

Jack the wheel and 9/3 play would be noticed if out ....12/3 is a test for bearing.

My car feels much tighter in bends after the change at just 45k.  Your MOT guy will know as it's part of the test.
Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: kcl on 06 September 2007, 07:37:35
Here are my experiences about wandering and "loose" feeling in e.g. driving over a bump:
- first thought was steering itself; either idler or tie rod ends: no play, not changed
- then tried changing both wisbones and drop links, as well as shocks (this was cause one shock was slightly leaking)
- had wheels aligned, but they set the camber too close to minimum
Still had these strange feelings and thoughts about all not being right. Then the cambers were re-set to exactly to the factory setting and wowsa, now it rides as it should!

As a conclusion from the above it seems, that Omega is extremely sensitive to camber. Also the structure of wishbones is not that convincing for a heavy car like Omega. All suspension parts are quite easy to change, so my recommendation is to regularly change the wishbones and droplinks every 100k kilometres and have alignment done every time something is changed in front; even tyre change seems to alter tracking (found this out between the two latest alignments)

 Still may have too much camber in rear wheels. When fully loaded, the tyres seem to run on inner shoulders and might wear, but not that much. Have to try new rear springs to avoid that.
Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: Martin_1962 on 06 September 2007, 09:10:44
Well there seems to be no movement by hand, definately can move the front bush but only in one direction - looks like it is designed to do that and to me looks wrong.

However when manouvering there is the odd clonk (not every time)

Someting is not quite right but not sure what it is ::)

Last thing I want to do is replace drop links, wishbones, track rod ends if I don't need to.
Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: old cruiser on 06 September 2007, 14:10:09
Martin, from your photo it looks like they are the vertical wishbone bushes, have you checked the Horizontal ones at the front?
Cheers Pete
Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: Martin_1962 on 06 September 2007, 15:13:31
That is the front one!

Something isn't quite right and it isn't just allignment. :-[
Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 06 September 2007, 17:38:09
With the wheel dangling (front jacked), can you get a similar picture of the rear vertical bush?
Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: Martin_1962 on 06 September 2007, 18:34:40
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With the wheel dangling (front jacked), can you get a similar picture of the rear vertical bush?


(http://martinimber.omegaowners.com/rb.JPG)
Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 07 September 2007, 00:47:46
Worcester isn't that far.. I could pop over and drive it one eve if you want a second opinion :)
Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: platty on 07 September 2007, 08:53:10
I think i could be having similar problems, when i wobble my wheel (3-9) there is a small amount of play i can feel. Plus i checked my tyres yesterday and they have taken a turn for the worse. To my knowledge the wishbones have not been changed for a couple of years at least. It does wander left a bit too but its the right tyre which is worst worn. Have a look:


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/chrispy_platt/DSC00992.jpg)
Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: Martin_1962 on 07 September 2007, 09:17:46
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Worcester isn't that far.. I could pop over and drive it one eve if you want a second opinion :)

Feels clonky when manouvering.

no 3-9 or 6-12 play

A second opinion would be good.

Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: hotel21 on 07 September 2007, 09:29:06
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I think i could be having similar problems.....It does wander left a bit too but its the right tyre which is worst worn.

That tyre is in a dangerous condition.

The wear is through the running surface (tread) into the constructional plys (different colour rubber) and only a very short distance from the steel constructional cords.  

Even a first rate tyre (Goodyear et al) cannot endure running like that for long and its probable that the economy end of the market, if thats what this tyre is, can let go without any further warning if you keep driving it, especially at speed or hardish cornering.  

Sorry to sound like the harbringer of doom, but seen too many like it that have ended in tears......   :'(
Title: Re: Wishbones Symptoms?
Post by: platty on 07 September 2007, 09:56:31
Thanks for you advice hotel21,

I thought the same as yourself as soon as I saw it, which I why I put the spare on straight away.
I had been monitoring it for a couple of weeks and it seemed to be OK, tread across the whole width...  it shocked me how quickly it had deteriorated in the last 400 miles though. It is only a Sime Tyre so I can't really trust it as you say.

I purchased a pair of new tyres (Michelin) for it yesterday which are being fitted with wishbones next week, followed by full alignment front and rear.

Fingers crossed, it should be the last of tyres like that.

Thanks again

Platty